Column: OH!Victoria - "The War Against Otaku Elitists"

"Our culture is supposed to be all-inclusive. Let’s keep it that way."

Our culture has grown more in recent years. We are no longer “alone.” Rather, we are, as media sociologist and author Volker Grassmuck might put it, “Alone, but not lonely”. No longer are we without a place.

 

Once, we thought no one understood our passions, or our fantasies, or why we put so much time, money and effort into anime, manga, videogames, etc. The internet has put a stop to all of that. The sheer amount of conventions, online forums and anime streaming websites have given otaku more of a home than we’ve ever had before.

 

 

But…remember what it was like growing up?

Remember…high school?

There were the jocks, there were the scene kids, there were the “Barbies”, the preppies, the “this”-ies, the “that”-ies. Then, there were Magic the Gathering nerds, there were Starcraft kids, there were “THE ASIANS.” Then there were those kids that were open about being otaku, maybe just three or four. There were “closet otaku” among various cliques. Yet, either way, you were usually “alone” in your obsession.

That’s how this culture was “found” in the first place. Subcultures develop because mainstream culture marginalized other people for being outsiders - thus the rise of subcultures like “Otaku.”

The saddest part about our proud subculture is that, finally having found each other, otaku turn then around and alienate people who are “not” otaku or that don’t “look” otaku.

The “prep” that shows up to the Anime Club because she has seen some anime, and loved it; loved it so much that she wants to explore more of it, she is alienated by the otaku. The SAME kids who were misunderstood and shunned by ALL of society for being different!

 

 

An otaku doesn’t look like anything. I know male and female otaku of literally all ages, of all races, and of all kinds of levels of attractiveness. Some have seen more anime than others. Some speak better Japanese than others. Some have anime tattoos. Some don’t play RPGs. The point here is: it doesn’t MATTER.

People that were once lonely in their interests; that wanted friends more than anything that understood them: they establish their own places in the otaku scene, they become “specialists”, and then they get haughty. They shun other people. They tear them down. They judge someone who might have a genuine curiosity about anime, manga, games, anything otaku, as if they are somehow a “threat.” Everyone has to start somewhere. Just because someone doesn’t know as much about Naruto as you do, or can’t name every track on Asian Kung-Fu Generation’s 4th album, doesn’t mean they are “less” than you. Why suddenly has the mission changed? When in the beginning we wanted more members in our group. Who does it serve to cut people down?

It’s just mean and hypocritical.

 

 

This isn’t a race. This isn’t a competition. At the end of our lives, there won’t be any kind of special prize for who knew more about anime, or who played more games in their lives. I know people who have a manga collection 3 to 4 times larger than my own, but haven’t read a single one of them. Does the fact that they have more manga make them “more” otaku than I am, despite the fact that I’ve read the majority of my books several times over? No, and it doesn’t work the other way around either. I am not better than they are. The fact is that there is no “scale.” Younger generations are being brought up in this “Otaku Kingdom”, where people much older than they are, people who have jobs and income, who are better able to support their own passions and fund their own collections are the bourgeoisie.

 


The attitude that there are different “classes” of otaku not only intimidates younger people, but teaches them that that is fundamentally what being an otaku is all about. And it was not until recently that this hierarchy existed in the world. Before, being an otaku was “weird” or “strange.”, and somewhat limited to children, but now everyone is cashing in on the entire “otaku” thing. Not only are professional models turning to cosplay, but other idols and celebrities are suddenly outing themselves as hardcore nerds. There are even reality shows such as “King of the Nerds” sprouting up on television networks everywhere. Although these shows focus more on “nerds” than otaku (meaning more Marvel, DC, Dr. Who, and Star Trek kinds of nerds) it’s no big secret that being a nerd right now is “hot.”

 

Anime touches people’s hearts, the same way it’s touched yours.

OUR culture is supposed to be all-inclusive. Let’s keep it that way.

 

 ---------------------------

Cosplayer, fangirl, and RPG enthusiast Victoria Holden is featured on The Live Show. You can follow her on Twitter at @sailorbee

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i love it!!!!!
THANKYOU RAIKAGE
Agreed wholeheartedly.
Me too that's why I run a club at my local library open to all!
Thank you for this post! I'm newer to manga/anime, and it is very intimidating when I don't know as much as others, (especially when it comes to names of authors/actors, and jargon). I consider myself a huge fan, it's just taking some time for me to get it all down :D
EXACTLY ~ ! And, NO ONE should make you feel bad for that. If anything, I'd LOVE to have newer fans as friends ! It means I get to take them under my wing and show them all the classics !!! ♥
Thanks! I would love to have more experienced fans as a friend. I like being introduced to new things :)
You are welcome here and ask anything you like, don't let anyone get to you. A true fan will always answer you and friends are made everyday.
great article !
I agree 100%. The desire to exclude people from fandom makes me wonder if those people even like the thing that they say they like, or if they just like stuff that isn't popular and this was 1st thing they came across.
Yeah ~ It's all pretty strange. I used to always think, "Well, she MUST be a great person if she likes anime!" Because. Anime and Manga is all about love and fun and COOL FIGHT SCENES, and like, I dunno, epic .. human.. emotion...with robots. But then i meet people that just want to down-talk every other nerd they know ! WEIRD MAN.
interesting artcile. I fully agree that there shouldn't be this level of exclusiveness. I haven't seen much of it myself, but I"m sure it's a problem.

Although, I'm not sure about being a nerd being 'in'. At least an otaku. I still get the weird looks and whatnot.

Still, if we were to support this sort of elitism, we'd be denying the very message that that which we love has been ingraining into us for so long; every life is important.
I'm sure not all people experience this, but it's very important that someone speaks against it. Also, we've all been taught that just one person is enough to change the world. ♥
That is also quite true ^
lol /HARUHISM
true that!! good to have the truth be told
Right ? I'll do it ! I'll take the beating so no one else has to. I'll be like, Goku or something and die for our sins !
Great article!
We definitely need more people coming out and saying how we need to come together.
Overcome the hating!
I'm TRYING SO HARD. Many projects in motion ~ ! END HATE, seriously, it makes NO SENSE for Otaku to hate eachother !
she's right wholeheartedly
It might just be that I haven't been in the thick of the fandom for a while, but I have never heard of the older fans, who are "better able to support their own passions and fund their own collections," looking down on younger fans for anything other than their tendency to run around screaming incoherent pseudo-Japanese and hitting each other with Yaoi paddles.
I have actually had the other end, I get treated a little funny because I'm NOT a teeny spaz with a ten foot replica and personal space issues. I'm a reasonably attractive and responsible adult but I get weird questions at cons like, "are you a mod" or " which booth is yours?" My favorite has been " EEE You're so old, are you one of the guests?" I was 25 at the time.
I'll admit i was a “closet otaku” in high school. I would have joined my high schools anime club but was afraid of being judged my my other friends. i could have made more friends too, friends who shared my love of anime and maybe would have had a girl friend too. but i will join my collages club if they have one. and thank you for these posts they have made my love of anime a bit more public.
I was you ~ ! Seriously, the anime fan girls and guys wouldn't let me in their club because I was "preppy-looking" - Whatever that means ! I even went so far as to get anime tattoos to help them believe me ! Hahaha.
hahaha they probably thought you were to pretty to like anime what whatever they thought the tat would be proof enough for me. i have always thought of have a anime tattoo, there's just sooooo much to choose from i wouldn't know what to get >.<
Same with me Because I was one of the Goth kids!
I never let my secret love out until I was working at a night club and came across a big name wearing a little wristband that had a symbol from one of my favorites on it. We talked J-stuff for over an hour and still chat and email regularly. You never know what sort of people you can find if you just be yourself.
True through and through!
Yaaay! It took time and effort to get my collection up; first, it was the VHS tapes, and once I got my PS2 out of layaway (that was my DVD player! :P), I started getting DVDs. Manga? My starter was Chobits, of all things, still have it on my shelves now! Now, I gotta find room for them all! Games are cool, but I found that sitting in a quiet place reading the manga you love, or spending the day watching a box set was the thing for me! :D

I had no idea there was 'snobbery' in the ranks! Surely we're not turning into hypocrites?? I hope not! I know what it was like to have my hobby made fun of because to my co-workers, 'anime' = 'those porno cartoons' in their book. It would piss me off whenever they'd say, 'still watching those porno cartoons?' 'NO, THAT's called HENTAI, you dumbass!! And it's DIFFERENT from what I watch!!'

But to have one's nose turned up at you 'cause you don't cosplay, or play video games?? Really??
Yeah ! It's kind of terrible. I wonder if this is only a California thing ? At least here, it's become more of a dim scene. I get called an anime pornstar all the time by my friends who don't understand cosplay. XD It sucks ! Also, I love Chobits ! Chiiiiiiiii ~ ♥ We can stop the hate togethuurrrrhhh. :3
Awesome! When I first started getting into anime and manga, people always judged me for it, especially in middle school where people tend to be more mean about things. I never denied it, but it made things a bit more difficult when you were scared about how others think of you. Now that I'm in college TONS of people watch anime, including my co-workers. I meet people at work almost every day who see my anime flair and we just get talking, some people who, just like you said, you wouldn't expect it. It's possibly one of the best things that you be involved in because everyone is so passionate!

Also, you are awesome Victoria :D
!!! YES ~ ! Everyone is so passionate. And other otaku are usually so warm and welcoming. It's the greatest part of our culture, and I do NOT want to see that shrivel and die ! Hence this article. YOU ARE ALSO AWESOME.
really good article. every fandom at one point or another goes through this elitists phase at one point or another. i know gaming is going through it right now with the rise of the CoDs , the Halos, the Maddens the GH/RBs etc etc. if its a good game it should be shared by all and not hoarded and kept in the dark. and if someone needs help/advice getting into gaming (or whatever fandom) its up to the.....i guess sempai would best describe it.....its up to them to them to welcome the newbies and them out. i think that makes sense.
It does make sense ! Which I why it is important for older generations to stop acting like snobs. We need to enrich, teach and empower budding otaku, and gamers alike ! I know in my home town there's kind of like a "school" for people that want to get better at SSBM. Hahah, that my friends run to help beginners !
so true. and also to teach the younger generations some etiquette and respect. especially when multiple fandoms gather at one place. theres this one store here in SA that recently had three different groups meet up: the bronies, hetalia (i think thats how its spelled) and Magic The Gathering. for the most part all three groups were having fun and being nice to each other.
Amen. Absolutely true, excellent article.
Thank you it's about time someone said something
This was great to read! I definitely have felt that intimidation from others for not being as knowledgeable about certain things.but I guess it drives me to learn more :) I for sure believe that this should be a "come one,come all" type of subculture. We gotta stick together :D
Thankyou ! And yes ~ We must stick together. Let's do so and keep our hobbies heartfelt and positive. ^^
Nicely put. I hope it works out better for your community than it has for other communities that get big enough to have factions and hierarchies.

People being People, I'm not that hopeful, but I wish you well anyway you'd think those who have been marginalized would be least prone to marginalize others since they know how it feels... Not so much apparently.
Nicely put yourself ! And exactly, that is the irony of it all.
you forgot the Emo group, and in high school before I was kicked out I was in my own group that consisted with just me sleeping under a tree during lunch.
it's just a part of the human condition to want to fracture into factions. Even within a group, there will always be sub-groups since people naturally want to differentiate themselves from others. Add in the human ego and you have people establishing a "hierarchy". Us vs them, we're better cuz of this, and damn look at those people they're so [insert adjective]. We're all guilty of it, sure it's petty and reflects the irrational end of our human psyche but it's also what makes us... us.

that said, my krew is better than yours and we the best.
I remember the conditions people had to meet before they could consider themselves an otaku. Now these conditions aren't something that's set in stone somewhere online and they weren't mentioned together, but conditions all the same.

1. Sub only

(You can't call yourself an anime fan unless you watch sub only!)

2. Import Only!

(You can't call yourself an anime fan unless you import directly from japan!)

3. Must have watched Gundam!

(Nothing else will do.)

Those are the conditions I remember. I don't agree with any of them, but those are the first things I read once I really got into collecting anime.

Anyways the look of someone shouldn't effect their stature as an anime fan. I mean I would still consider someone an anime fan even if they watched more live-action movies/shows than anime ones.
Well, I don't see or hear about 2 or 3 much anymore, but the SUBS ONLY! and ALL DUBS SUCK! crowd is quite the entrenched faction in anime fandom (even moreso among those who label themselves otaku). The worst part is how fanatical these people can be, and how that pushes some people away from anime/manga or in some other way causes factionalization among fans/otakus.
PFFFFF some dubs are awesome.
I hear you, how silly. I hate hearing snotty O's saying, " I looked it up and that is NOT what they are saying". Well DUH, It's about as foreign a language as possible from English and there is this little thing called lip flap. The sentiment will translate just fine and it can bring more people into the culture that might be intimidated by subs or imports.
Excellent article, I loved it! : ]

Growing up as a closet otaku, I can relate to a bit that you have typed up in your article. There are people who will shun you because you look like a jock, or a preppy. In fact, it wasn't till I got hooked up to the internet that I found like minded people who would talk to me about anime or manga!
I totally agree with this. Thank you for writing it.
I'm one of those ppl that try to get other ppl to join in my passion for the anime culture. I'm seldom successful but i never stop trying. It would be great to have more ppl enjoy the things we do, since I for one know just how difficult it is to share this interest with another person. Even more so to the level that I myself enjoy it
I do believe that it takes a very special person to love and appreciate anime, manga or even cosplay. But a LOT of people have no idea that it exists ! Or they have the wrong impression about what anime is all about, so I'm glad you try and spread the good news !
Oh snap. This a more true than anything. I cried.
D'AWWWWWWW QAQ ; TT____TT ;
Totally agree and as far as the geek/nerd/otaku culture goes, I do think it is definitely more inclusive than some of the other groups which is a big reason as to why I like it so much. There definitely are the elitists but I think for the most part they are outmatched by all the genuinely wonderful people out there. I think most other people are like me in that they are just happy to have people who share their interest. Anyway I kind of rambled but yeah, that's how I feel.

Also just wanted to say that I really like your columns. I always look forward to reading them and they have yet to disappoint. Keep up the good work!
Oh ~ Thankyou !!! Also, Rambling is encouraged.

The fact that you think the elitists are outmatched gives me more hope than anything. It's just recently that I've begin to feel this rift in the culture, and the entire, weird, power-struggle otaku seem to have with one another. I'm trying to nip it in the rear before it gets out of hand ~ ♥
It's not really about numbers(we are bigger than you so we rule over you hahaha!), it's more of the intent, the heart.
Why doesn't people give some random acts of kindness and senseless beauty?(Think of that guy in Ouran High School Host Club).
nice article but it doesn't matter.. I am just forever alone no matter what happens.
NO YOU'RE NOT. YOU HAVE US. *looks at all CR users*
Oh this is so true. I've seen it, at the anime clubs I attended and the cons. I'm probably one of the people the "true otaku" would look down upon from their lofty perch (but then again those true otaku in my day when I was beginning were the people that the rules that you must SHOWER, EAT, SLEEP, and PUT ON DEODORANT were put in the guide books to cons.) Now a days, I feel so old going to the cons, I don't know as much as everyone else, just know a bit of everything I find interesting and willing to try new things. Though one thing I did peeve me off to no end were the kids who "knew" Japanese and would hold it above you.....but I loved it when in Japanese class they got told, you're doing it wrong or that your accent isn't as good as someone who didn't even know much when they came into the class. hehehehehe
I know that feeling, I'm the same age as you and I generally get treated like a lech or part of the staff. I know what I like and I don't brag on what I've learned and we that have been through the flea-market days and the, "dude, if you touch me again I WILL kame your face" days need to be the leaders. Indecently, those rules still completely crack me up.
This article ROCKED!!
Going to show/read it at my Anime Club's next meeting because this message needs to spread.
If Soulja Boy can be an otaku, anyone can, and I'm happy to have 'em around. Have fun!
I agree, though I think part of the "problem" with some people is that they were picked on so much by certain types of people, and excluded and shunned by those people so much, that it makes them angry when they see those types of people "trying to take over their favorite thing". Essentially they feel like those people are trying to take over the one thing that was special to them. Other than that though, there's no reason anyone should be acting all big over their obsession with anime. >_>
It's nice to know that there is still so much love out there despite everything else that's happening in this world.
Being part of this passion and movement is a way to escape all the negativity in this world, and it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who appreciates it or thinks it's worth exploring and discovering every day!
We all share the same passion, let's all act like it!!
;-)
Thank you so much for this article! I thought I was the only one who thought like this. There was a time when I was shunned for sharing my love of being an Otaku by another "fan". Said I focused on too many games, when my favorite part of the fandom is on games turned into anime, since I was born a gamer... Valkyria Chronicles, BlazBlue, Sengoku Basara, Persona 4, etc. It wasn't like this several years ago... Seems like the fandom has evolved a lot now that I think about it. Back in the day, it seemed to be an Otaku, you have to watch Naruto (sub only) and it was a requirement to bash the English dub, including other anime series, when people seem to forget to use the subtitle option on the DVD. :S
I find this to be one of the best articles that I have read so far. There is so much meaning to this. I completely agree that anime is something that should be all-inclusive, and that there aren't any CLASSES of Otaku. Someone may know more than you or cosplay better than you but that doesn't mean anything. It shouldn't stop you from enjoying and having fun with anime. Don't put others down for being new to it or feel superior. You started out that way too TT-TT -touched- <3
I'm a lot older than most of the folks here and had been working as a software developer for probably 15 years or so before I ever had Internet access. About the only anime I had growing up was Speed Racer. I was a geek and a nerd and a pretty serious science fiction fan, so a lot of the community here didn't exist when I was younger.

I admit that I don't understand some of the things that folks have such a passion for, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the passion itself. My church (Unitarian-Universalist) tends to go on and on about the poor GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) folks, but I've never heard a single word about my people, the nerd, the geeks, the otaku. It's cool to have an alternative sexualtiy, but it's not cool to be smart, to be a geek, to have a deep interest in something, to have a true passion. I have given some of the folks at church a real earful about it a few times as well, telling them to look at how the modern media portrays folks like us. They don't even understand that the reason I always am dressed so nice is that it is cosplay to me, looking good is a game with me.

What am I doing about the overall situation? I'm taking seminary classes and making a point of asking "Who is being overlooked?" and pointing out "You're supporting causes that make the front page, but ignoring issues in your own congregations". All uncomfortable questions that may wind up with me being told I'm not welcome by the credentialing folks when I apply for ordination.

So, please care for the others in this community, even if you find them rather annoying.
Ummm, what now? There are already laws which protect nerds. You have the same rights as ANYONE else(as long as you're a STRAIGHT nerd). Yes, being awkward is difficult and I know this first hand, but you cannot compare the two. There is only so much that can be done. People will always feel awkward with people who don't have great social skills, and those who DO have good social skills are generally not looked down upon. I do agree that "geeky" types need to SUPPORT one another instead of beating each other down though. Why so much animosity over the silliest things(like what show you like? Really?). There are plenty of things I don't like, but I would never look down on someone else for liking them. I never really understood that.
I think your church focuses on GLBT, because traditionally Church is against that sort of thing, whereas Church never really had a stance on nerds, except maybe the dangers of science.
But I do see where you're coming from. This past political season, I was asked to support a GLBT anti bullying bill. Why not a general anti bullying bill? Because the general bill which had been instated for years didn't work. When they added qualifiers to it, no bullying on account of race, creed, religion, sex, nation of origin, wealth, things improved on those accounts, so yeah add GLBT, but also add weight, height, intellect, any sort of difference, including nerdom.
I find it rather annoying people jump to declare me otaku just 'cause I like anime, and I find it even more annoying when they complain I'm not a good otaku 'cause of my lack of burning passion and complete dedication to this cause... Good grief, it's not my fault if western game and movie industries are stuck on recycled ideas and total dependency on visual effects/high-end graphics while japanese people use the otherwise forsaken creativity. As long as their stuff is better, I prefer their stuff, that doesn't necessarily fit my entire existence into a specific subculture. (Not that I really care about all that, just look at my friend list to see how much effort I take into "fitting in")
the people that call you otaku just for liking some anime, need to learn the meaning again.
As some one who doesn't fall into the "typical" Otaku range (as if anyone anywhere is Typical) I love this article.
in search of an "good " comment i can only say one thing keep up the good work =b
Lady has a point, and it doesn't specifically have to be about "Otaku" culture. There are tons of groups who while growing up, or while the subculture or interest was new, were very marginalized, ostracized, and otherwise shunned.

Groups need to be more open and accepting that others may fit into your oh-so-exclusive club, even if they don't fit your view of how things should be. If it is formed around an interest, then if that person has an interest and wants to be involved, help them to be. Don't push them out because they are part of another group, or because they aren't caught up on all the latest/greatest.

Help them grow, and they will help you grow, and in turn help grow the things you are in to. Thereby increasing the acceptance all around.
Very true. People in general should just be more willing to accept others for who they are and what they like. The more people a group brings into the fold, the more people they will have to discuss their interests with.

By the way, I love the last part of your post. That was pretty awesome.
I just don't say anything about my love for anime, was tired of getting that aren't you a little old to watch cartoons look.
Well, if you've still got people like that around, I've got an idea for you:

Make a bet with one of them where either you know you can't lose or you don't tell them what the losing condition is for them. The latter being in case you need to repeat this and you don't want them to be getting suspicious about what your real goal is in the bet(s).

The losing condition is them having to sit down with you and watch Berserk. I have yet to meet the person who does not like Berserk after watching it (save for some animation snobs, which would not be the people who give you that kind of look).

If they don't like Berserk, I suggest arming yourself with holy water, as they are likely some form of soulless thing. :)
I totally understand how you feel. I avoid talking about my passion for anime and manga.
I'm much older than I look and was and still am teased for loving animes, which the people around me refer to as cartoons! Still it doesn't deter me in my passion and I think that if they had a little more imagination and less restrictions within themselves, they will see that it's a way of releasing stress and living in a world unlilke our own.
So be proud of who you are and what you do. Of all the people I know and am surrounded by I'm the only one of my kind in so many ways :-)
Hang in there, and don't let anyone ever tell you what you are too old for or not!!
It's sad to be shun away when you just want to be part of the fandom. I happily, pridefully, spread/promo the fandom to everyone I know and welcome them. I like fulfilling that desire to share how awesome it is.
The article is nice, but I've honestly not seen what she describes happen. For more commonly, however, are instances of anime fans despising other anime fans. Disdain towards the Eva snobs, the Narutards, the moe obsessed neckbeards, or what other mean label you can think of occurs far more commonly than hostility towards general newcomers.
I noticed this quite a bit. I went to an anime convention this year, second year going, and just because i didn't know what this one group of people were dressed up as they treated me like i was stupid. A very big disappointment to see power go to some peoples heads. Just because what you like is becoming popular doesn't mean you have to let the pride go right to your head and be a dick.
Utterly, I bet we could all pull something out that they had never seen. How you going to find out something new if everybody watches the same stuff?
i must say, i agree.
Snobby otaku are the bullies of nerd-dom, anyone that acts like that around me is going to get snubbed in return. :P
I think most of us are pretty accepting . Never really seen someone being excluded in the "otaku culture" IRL. on the internet however......


then again there are dumb trolls so cant always take everything on the internet srsly....
So many subcultures fall into this trap, especially when it becomes more and more mainstream... and it leads to their downfall. Subcultures grow and morph with their people. They never stay the same, but change is a GOOD thing.
awesomenesssssssssssss
also yeah i gotta agree with gerbilx and koyamaki on this one. :/
Thanks for the article, Victoria! Interesting yet, as hypocritical as you said. There are 2 issues that I'd like to point out in our subcultures nowadays--actually make that 3!

+ONE: Sub vs. dub threads--the @$$hole weaboos that bash viewers who watch anime in other languages other than Japanese. They talk out of their asses with comments like "real fans watch sub". More than half of them don't even know that "real" is an opinion. It's become as stupid as politics.

+TWO: Popularity status--this is my personal favorite. If you like an anime that is NOT mainstream, popular, "quality", "big hit", or accessible to a large audience, mainstream anime fans go WTF on you and once again talk out of their asses for you liking "less" popular or ill-received titles.

+THREE: Genres--In some ways, it's connected to my 2nd problem. It's ok to have fav genres (I don't and am better off that way), but more ppl are putting TOO MUCH focus on genre and not on overall enjoyment nowadays. I sometimes wonder if an anime series gets a great deal of praise or notoriety for the genre(s) it represents which I think it's plain silly. Here's a good example: anime from the shounen, psychological, and shojo genres tend to be better received while niche genres like ecchi and yaoi get poor reviews (though I'm a bit surprised Nakamura's yaoi works are getting good reviews which could mean to me that they're better than they appear). What I'm trying to get at is if you're a fan of some niche genres, ppl that are not used to them will try to ridicule you or even tell you that you're not an "true" anime fan. Yeah, it's THAT idiotic these days.
Oh and anyone is free to disagree on my post, but that's just what I'm seeing nowadays.
Great article. Well written and well thought out. It's nice to see crunchyroll writing blogs relatable to the community on a more personal level. I look forward to reading more.
i just like when i meet people and ask me for recommendations about anime or manga
LOVE IT!!!!

i'm not new to cartoons since i couldwatch them all day long, however i'm new to anime and manga, and japanese girls! ;) lol
unfortunately there is not so many mexicans into manga/anime where i live lol so i have to actually find me someone else... but great article! love it!!

thanks for the encouragement to keep looking! =)
How can Otaku look down upon Non Otaku? I mean, they will always be cooler than us.
Nicely wrote. I've been into anime for a long time. I have no issues with people that are just getting into anime/manga and the like, helped a few do it even :). Still it isn't easy when talking with people that have to put others under themselves like its some kind of exclusive club. Which makes me wonder what it is about anime/manga -- or anything else this happens with -- that causes some to feel the need for a superiority complex that serves no purpose except alienating others.
Don't be ashamed of loving anime, people who hate anime are usually biased because it is animated and have never actually seen a decent anime. Most of the time, I hear people talking about how anime is lame and people watch it because the have no lives.Other times, they are on the internet and see a curious link that says "hentai" and become completely biased to all anime. I recently gotten some of my friends, who acted in a way, mentioned above, into anime. I choose some series that focused focused on the story-line and after a day, they were hooked. So don't be ashamed because it so unpopular, its just that they don't understand what we watch it for; the laughs, the story, the romance, the tragedy, and sometimes just to get away from the drama in your day.
I must be so far out there...I didn't know of such a problem in the community. Love the column!
I understand exactly what you are saying and I'm glad you wrote this. I'm from Mexico and I moved to California when I was fifteen. That was over ten years ago. Anime was very common in Mexican tv channels so I had seen so many series that at the time were never even heard of in America. My problem was that I didn't look like an otaku and I wasn't American.

My friend and I decided to check out the anime club in school after somebody found out we liked anime and we were disappointed. It was almost all guys, they looked at us like we were crazy and were not interested in anything other than what they were currently watching. They thought that because we were Mexican and never heard of the anime we had watched that we were making it up. So we said hell no and went our way.

Another thing I notice is that for some people, you have too look like an otaku or you are not one. If you are not wearing a narutard headband or anything anime related you are not welcomed. It's so silly!

I actually tried taking Japanese classes in college, and there was this group of teenagers that were all deck out in Naruto and Bleach accessories. I worked at a bank then, so I would go to class after work wearing my nice suits and high heels. When they overheard that I was not only into anime and manga but video games also, they looked at me as if I was from another planet.

Needles to say, they didn't even tried talking to me. And I was looking forward to being a sempai.
Ha, this is kind of a problem for me (not really though). But when i gather with other "otakus" we might get a conversation about different animes/mangas and such. The thing is, i'm really bad at remembering names so i might not remember all the anime and manga i have watched/read. And voice actors i really like and such. I forget these things since i'm not one to go around and trying to remember names of people i don't really know. Anyone else? :3
I completely agree but have a point to make. Back in High School I ran the school's anime club and there would be several "newbies" who'd show up for nothing other than to poo-poo our love of older series and gloat about their knowledge of newer series. When asked to be quiet or leave they'd cry foul, all the while stuffing their bags full of whatever snacks i brought for those interested in the show of the week(I'd show both new and old series alternatively so everyone could enjoy the club). I ask you fellow anime and manga fans, what would be your response to this situation?
-P.S.- sorry about the long post, but this has been a bother to me since those days
I would have asked their interests, tried to do a comparison of old vs new of a similar shows, and had a discussion afterwords. That, and I wold have reminded them that older series weren't touched up on a PC, everything was hand drawn, edited, etc., so they won't be as crisp or what ever.

Everyone seems to forget anymore how drastically technology has changed in the last 20 years when it comes to entertainment and the tools used to create a movie/anime/game. Hell, even how much they have changed in the last ten, or even 5 years.

As for what to do with rude people, the same thing as anywhere else - if they're not going to be constructive, have a intelligent opinion and the ability to see both sides of an argument, and the ability to at least enjoy themselves when being shown something different, then perhaps it wasn't the right place for them. In truth, if everyone could just get along and enjoy themselves, it would be best, but that rarely happens. =/
Nice read, keep it up.
I agree with this about the lonely part. But you just portrayed ''Otaku'' as some kind of loser. Anyways I am a big anime but I'm not into those dramas or mangas. I DON'T HAVE ASIAN FETISH! I am proud to be myself! And I like animes! :)
Yes it's true there are ppl who do look down on other fans, especially newer fans. A lot of these are the older fans who were in it "back in the day". These are the ones who were in it when anime was mostly giant robots and bikini clad aliens and space travel & such. These are the ones who look at all the romcoms and slice of life and other non-traditional genres of anime and wonder what happened to their favorite little hobby, and blame the newer generation for ruining it for them.
And like it was mentioned in the article, everybody has to start somewhere.
Excellent article.,
Our interest is a niche one. We need to stick together because there are far more people who hate anime, manga and overall otaku culture than like it.

Strength in numbers, people
An enjoyable article indeed. The last thing anime/manga fans need is infighting.

Sadly, cliche groups will always be there, but whether people discriminate against a group or accept them as just different basically determines the maturity of those people. IE: I was a giant that was a shop kid/techie, that got along with pretty much everyone. (>.> then again, I was over 208 cm (6'10) tall and wide as a door at the shoulders.)
...I have a confession to make. I can’t name every track on Asian Kung-Fu Generation’s 4th album.
Loved this, so true. Thanks for making this :)
I remember when watching anime or reading manga was like "The Secret Shame" it was not at all mainstream, now I can go into Barnes and Noble and find a manga section or I can enter Best Buy or Fry's and get anime. Their selection may not be too great but, it is a selection. Anime used to be expensive as hell too, one VHS three episode tape was around $25 USD it came subbed because there wasn't enough money in anime to bother with dubbing. Nowadays, an entire series can be picked up for around $50 USD in both Bluray and DVD formats and off the rack cosplay items make it real easy for the budding cosplayer too. My daughters and their friends do cosplay and make all of their stuff, this year my one girl is trying to get me to do cosplay for this years AX12! Our family has spent a small fortune on anime, novels, manga and gaming items. my other girl writes fanfiction and posts her stuff for everyone to enjoy, are we an otaku family? we don't think we are because we also do other things for fun, though some would call us otakoids, we don't care, we are having fun! And THAT'S what's important.
P.S. I've never seen a Gundam episode either.
I know exactly where you are coming from. I think the big problem is that a lot of people hate that the same people who made fun of them before and now turning around and pretending to be a nerd just becuase it is "cool" or "hot" all of a sudden. I think that may be where some of that nastynes is coming from. I am not saying it is right but i can see why some people roll their eyes when they see porn stars running around pretending to be nerds because it gets them more attention at the moment, and as soon as it is no longer cool to be a nerd (total oxymoron there) they are going to pretend that it never happend. It is just a strange environment to be in at the moment.
I dont know if I really see this among American anime fans/otakus but if you jump on 2ch, 4ch or SanCon and read some of the comments below posts. Their is a lot of disagreeing and arguing back and forth between Japanese otaku and American fans. Personally I dont think those opinions will really change because the Internet helped spread something that was a "Japanese only" thing to a different set of viewers with different thoughts and opinions. So I think those people who are acting elite are trying to keep this niche of a genre, closed off in a way. Their shouldn't be any standards that you should have to adhere to, from the simple fact of liking something. But since you have such dedicated groups of fans across the world, then those hypocritical opinions are going to exist.
Inter-fandom bashing can be brutal. Though I've only ever seen it played out via internet rants and comments, I don't think I've EVER heard it being said out loud at a convention.
I agree with your post 100%

I was born into the anime fandom. Instead of watching Disney movies every day as a kid my favorite all time movie was Kiki's Delivery Service and when it came out eventually Spirited Away. Me and my older brother watched Saturday morning cartoons which were usually anime and later in the day my whole family would watch late night anime. (EX: Samurai Champloo, Rurouni Kenshin, Inuyasha etc...) I never as a child thought that this was not "Normal" until I went to school. During 2nd grade Naruto came out in america on cartoon network and being a kid i loved the show for a good amount of my childhood though my love lessened in the current years. One day however kids who were "Popular" in my grade used to say bad things about the show whenever it was brought up. This was the first time i realized i wasn't "normal" in my fellow friends eyes. I never talked about anime until about 6th grade. I met a really good friend at that time who accepted my love for anime and i begin to open up just a little. In 7th grade i found out my best friend who i knew since i was five loved Tsubasa. Now i had friends who liked the same things i did and could talk about my passion for anime. I believe that if i was more open about my passion i would have had more fun and better friends like i do now. Now that I'm in high school i have multiples of friends who love or at least understand my passion for anime. I'm still a little shy to bring up the topic to newer friends but the moral of this story is that stand up for what you like because you'll enjoy life more.
a great article ^_^
*starts slow clap* well done
Hey, I know you. You're from the live show.
*joins in on slow clap (lol)
this is a great article!!!!
AMEN.
I think the main issues are cronyism and the spreading popularity of nerd culture. Some nerds are jaded that new Battlestar, more accessible tech, Lord of the Rings movies, and the proliferation of home gaming consoles have expanded nerd culture. After being ostracized for years, now their interest are cool.
But you know what, norms are okay, and if they enjoy what we embrace, we should be happy. "They finally understand," not, "I liked it before it was cool." It's too much like sports, "I've been a fan of this team, before they were good." We should embrace the Nintendo public service announcement/commercial for Legend of Zelda, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNtuK4CU3ko Nerds and Cool Kids unite!

I've been attending Sci-Fi and Anime conventions since the late 90s, and have always run into the Nerdier than thou mentality and Sci- Fi conventions, and have always found the Anime conventions much more embracing and supportive. As opposed to Sci-Fi cons, I've yet to have people scream at me for calling a show "good", instead of "the best thing to ever happen in the history of human society" at Anime cons. Also, I've yet to experience hecklers at Anime cosplay contests:) and it better stay that way.
I plan my vacations around Anime cons, because they're the only place I can hangout with thousands of strangers and have a great time. Sure, there are some jerks here and there, but that's to be expected. The larger a subculture gets, the more it represents the larger culture, there are jerks and bullies in all walks of life, so there will be jerks and bullies at cons. :( Brush them off, they're out of place. There'll be plenty of other people to share the love.
I felt this was a balanced, temperate post until I got to the poke about the older bourgeoisie intimidating young people.

There are lots of young fans rushing in with with their own beliefs and passions, liberally spreading them around. And they're not stopping to ask anyone's permission.
They don't need it.

And exactly how old is "old" here? Fandom is dominated by "20-Somethings" decade after decade. Is "young" those under 20? Is "old" those over 24? Shouldn't it really be neophytes and veterans?

So....how long until you're old?
I don't know. My dad's almost 50 and he's the most hardcore Otaku I know. I just meant, that older teens in general are and always have been intimidating to younger people. There's pressure to be cool and such growing up - that's all i meant by that.
Amazing article
The reason of this "otaku-social-hierarchy" is probably the product of the ostracism that the world which "otakus" abandoned.
They are now being haughty because they are pushing their anger(and probably hate too) to the new otakus. Probably, they are just shooting down the wrong messenger.
The thing is, I understand them. So I get what you are saying here. But, it serves no one to tear eachother down. We can all become stronger and happier if we stop the hatred ~
I agree with what figurehappy said. There are jerks in all walks of life, so yeah they can & sometimes will pop up in Otaku communities. Guess it can't really be helped. Better to avoid such ppl.

Speaking of which, there is something I've been thinking about all day. Remember a couple months back when SNL did that "J-pop America Fun Time Now" bit? There were a couple threads on this here on CR and many ppl on this site admitted to running into similar kinds of fans from time to time at cons or other such gatherings. I wonder what most peeps think about dealing with such types, since the idea of all otakus getting along has been brought up.

I personally don't feel the need to be best friends with every single fan I meet, nor do I think it's realistic. But at the same time I don't feel the need to publicly ostracize & ridicule such fans either. I think just keeping a distance from such ppl who cross a line from "hobby" to "obsession" is fine. Everybody just have fun in their own way & just stay away from anyone you think might be "trouble". Just my opinion.
@Whatzfun: Since "Old" is such a subjective term, I dunno if this helps, but my definition of "Old":

When you find yourself saying things like "Oh I don't like watching any of the newer anime these days....it was better back when....." or when you say stuff like "I don't watch any anime that came out after such an such year", then you have become closed minded and biased enough against newer anime that you can be considered "Old".
Woot! With that definition, I guess I'll never grow old as long as a show entertains! ^^

-_- That doesn't mean I don't have to keep working though.....
:applause: Well said!
Amen! I feel like I had this issue in my last anime club where an elitist gave me the finger just because I don't import straight from Japan for free.
WOW. Well, then they suck ! LOL, it's very important to pay for something. If they are just downloading content then you are already better than they are. :3 also, everyone wants to -own- anime ~
Wow, really well put! I know from experience that no1, neither would any of my friends, believe me if I told them I've turned otaku. I guess that makes me a "closet otaku" lol? And there is definitely an attitude out there that makes newer otakus, like muah!, feel they shouldn't be included in the "club". If I'd gotten that vibe earlier I'd have probably never further explored anime!
I am of the older generation. I was one of those labeled "loser nerd" And pushed around and was alone. I grew up with watching re-runs of Speed Racer or catching the newest episode of Voltron And Star Blazers. I remember the buzz over Akira before it came out. But back then it was not easy to learn about such things. We had no internet And only got to see what they would show on Cable TV. If you liked this stuff, You never talked about it because it seemed to be forbidden. We have come a long way since then. Now I share things that I like with thousands of others, And even my family. My two teenagers and my wife have lengthy discussions about characters, or certain episodes at the dinner table. I have watched countless hours of Anime, Read just as much Manga, And drooled over the newest figures out. I am grateful to have the privilege to share what I love with others now, And I am no longer alone.
This is a wonderful Article and it does put things into perspective for others. And also not to mention.. I feel the same way!
I LOVE STARBLAZERS ! I'm a little suspicious ~ This just sounds like my family !
/nod, very well said.
TYPE-MOON fans are some of the worst offenders...they think they belong to some exclusive club because they've done everything there is to do that is TYPE-MOON and look down on those who only have seen the Tsukihime anime and the Fate anime like myself. I was told by more than one these people that I shouldn't even bother to watch Carnival Phantasm because I wouldn't enjoy it as much as they did.

Well I watched it... and I laughed... HARD... it was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time and even though I didn't get all the references from Melty Blood, it was still awesome.

Anyway about the article... I think it's just human nature, or at least what it's become... now they have finally found a group to belong to they look to exclude others in the same way that they had been excluded from groups themselves. Seeking some sort of feeling of superiority they weren't able to find through inclusion in more popular mainstream circles. Vicious cycle or something like that...

I've enjoyed the years of finding out someone, especially someone unexpected, likes anime and being able to find something to connect with that person about. One of my old girlfriends had seen Nadia as a kid and she wanted to see it again, she was totally not the otaku type AT ALL... but it was something that made us a bit closer even though she doesn't know and hasn't seen anywhere near the amount of anime I have.

Another girl I was dating came over once when I was watching Infinite Ryvius, she sat through the last half of the ep and I went to turn it off and she said "fill me in on what I missed and lets go on to the next one"... we ended up watching the whole series over a couple dates.

A guy at work took jabs at me from time to time for watching anime... then I found out he watches Case Closed... then we had something to talk about.

The point is... it's always been my experience that having anime in common with someone, even if it's just 1 series, can really help a relationship or friendship, why people seek to completely exclude those that share that common interest but maybe don't know as much as they do has always puzzled me.
I absolutely love this article, and I completely agree I was fortunate enough to run into 2 "sages" of anime when I first stumbled upon an interest in anime they nurse my interest and guided me. It should definitely be taught that we don't discriminate against those with an interest, but if someone discriminates against otaku culture if we are together we are that much stronger right?...lol short version great article!
Ahhhh!!!! I love you! This is so true and anybody who wants to flaunt their collection instead of share it, judge others cosplay instead of accepting it or ignore or mistreat a "mainstream" newcomer because they remind them of the girl/guy that sneered and said, "you watch CARTOONS" is the worst sort of hypocrite and will always be alone AND lonely.
amen to that!
I feel so much better about being an Otaku now! I mean im like the only person i know that watches anime and reads manga, so i thought that i might be low in the knowledge of both of these and would therefore be shunned. Im really glad i have this understanding now, thank you!!
Saw a useful list "Ten Convention Survival Tips" at AnimeCons site.
I heartily recommend that any fan get out and attend at least one con. Pick one that features your area of interest. If you're shy, like me, I would pick a larger one the first time out. It's easier to float around the fringes, checking things out. If you're gregarious and want to meet people right away I would pick a small specialty con.
About standing in lines: A con wouldn't be a con with out at least one line to suffer through. At least that can be some of the most interesting time spent there people watching and talking.
thank you finally someone that understands us,

speak the truth and never let them stop our dreams..... that sounded cooler in my head