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Post Reply Shortage Of Illegal Labor Caused Construction Worker Wages To Rise Up To 30%
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

Ejanss wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

We can't help the world ourselves, everyone has to help themselves.


Good, I'll remember that the next time you're in an auto accident.


I prefer to say that every nation have to help themselves. Some exception would be an invasion by a powerful nation, an extraterrestrial invasion, or the occurance of some major natural disaster like that in central America now. Having every individual help themselves is impractical since human is a social being who is now living in an increasingly interconnected society. Some urban citizen do achieve a form of independency by preventing themselves from becoming too dependent on a specific individual but they always have to depend on at least one people.


sundin13 wrote:

Its interesting to read Fox's reporting on this next to your source:


Wilson said companies have had to get by with fewer workers, so in addition to paying more for a house, you'll likely have to wait longer for it to get built. Wilson claims that sort of shortage can add a month or two to the time it takes to build a home.

But apart from higher prices and inconvenience to consumers, Marek said the worker shortage is a drag on the economy, keeping the recovery from going full throttle. Marek said he is turning down projects for lack of workers.


Basically, there is a shortage of workers which is driving wages up, however the shortage of workers is also putting a strain on these businesses, increasing housing costs and potentially hurting the economy and the housing market in general.

Also, as someone who is pretty familiar with the trades, the worker shortage is pretty much universal and has been for a while now. Very few people are going into the trades in America. Everybody is being pushed towards knowledge based jobs which has created a vacuum. I wouldn't really say this is anything new and I question Trump's effect on these issues (especially in the long run).


I notice some fake contexting in your post: you talk about worker shortage but imply that it is in the trades. Few US workers are in the trades not because of few workers but because of low domestic demand. Few people are going to trades in America because the low-skill jobs are being outsourced to the third world nations with puppet governments who serve foreign business interest at the cost of the local citizen. Globalization has cause the developed nations to specialized in high-skill industries and the developing nations to specialized in low-skill industries. The job vacuum actually existed in the high-skill industries.

On another topic, I want to argue for increased wage: advertising exist to increase economic investment but foreign workers demand too little wage for economic investment.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

sinoakayumi wrote:

I notice some fake contexting in your post: you talk about worker shortage but imply that it is in the trades. Few US workers are in the trades not because of few workers but because of low domestic demand. Few people are going to trades in America because the low-skill jobs are being outsourced to the third world nations with puppet governments who serve foreign business interest at the cost of the local citizen. Globalization has cause the developed nations to specialized in high-skill industries and the developing nations to specialized in low-skill industries. The job vacuum actually existed in the high-skill industries.

On another topic, I want to argue for increased wage: advertising exist to increase economic investment but foreign workers demand too little wage for economic investment.


I'm speaking from personal experience in the trades. There are jobs. I was given one despite having no knowledge of electrical work whatsoever. Half of my ex-coworkers had no experience and the other half had serious substance abuse issues. My boss took whatever he could get and was still usually understaffed. I also don't think I've seen anyone within 10 years of my age doing work in any of the houses I've worked on. I've had several family business heads saying that they are struggling to find workers because no one my age is getting into the trades.

Yes, there are certainly other factors, but from personal experience, I do think that there is an issue with no young people going into the trades, creating a worker shortage which will only get worse.

Also, I'm not really sure how outsourcing your plumber would work...
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

Cardamom_Ginger wrote:

I have not felt that in the workplace. I do work in construction as an industrial electrician. My latest job came to a close just last week, and let me say this; my higher ups made sure to skimp out about as much as possible, and I hear the same from other contacts in the field. It was to the point of the company I work for barely avoiding having their asses pulled through the ringer for the unpaid overtime that myself and the rest of the crew dealt with. This article looks good on paper, but the same greedy bastards run jobsites.


It probably depends on how much ICE is active in your area and if illegals were dragging down wages.

I've heard in California that landscaping companies don't make a living wage while where I live landscaping jobs pay $15 with no experience and $20 with decent experience. Cost of living is low so thats actually quite a bit of money.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/11/17
*cough* Xenephobia *cough.*

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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

Rujikin wrote:


Cardamom_Ginger wrote:

I have not felt that in the workplace. I do work in construction as an industrial electrician. My latest job came to a close just last week, and let me say this; my higher ups made sure to skimp out about as much as possible, and I hear the same from other contacts in the field. It was to the point of the company I work for barely avoiding having their asses pulled through the ringer for the unpaid overtime that myself and the rest of the crew dealt with. This article looks good on paper, but the same greedy bastards run jobsites.


It probably depends on how much ICE is active in your area and if illegals were dragging down wages.

I've heard in California that landscaping companies don't make a living wage while where I live landscaping jobs pay $15 with no experience and $20 with decent experience. Cost of living is low so thats actually quite a bit of money.


I think he means the scumbags would rather cut keep hours low and wages stagnated regardless of how much cheap labor they have on hand. It would definitely mean longer contracts though. That could be a good thing for renovators though. New housing means for development which means more habitat destruction. On the other hand, if companies are turning down jobs that leaves room for startups too.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

RyukoKuroki wrote:

*cough* Xenephobia *cough.*



Bullshit. No one is calling for a halt in legal immigration.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/11/17
*cough* Giant ass wall, representing a irrational fear of people from other countries who have become a scapegoat for a lot of Americas problems. *cough*
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

MysticGon wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Cardamom_Ginger wrote:

I have not felt that in the workplace. I do work in construction as an industrial electrician. My latest job came to a close just last week, and let me say this; my higher ups made sure to skimp out about as much as possible, and I hear the same from other contacts in the field. It was to the point of the company I work for barely avoiding having their asses pulled through the ringer for the unpaid overtime that myself and the rest of the crew dealt with. This article looks good on paper, but the same greedy bastards run jobsites.


It probably depends on how much ICE is active in your area and if illegals were dragging down wages.

I've heard in California that landscaping companies don't make a living wage while where I live landscaping jobs pay $15 with no experience and $20 with decent experience. Cost of living is low so thats actually quite a bit of money.


I think he means the scumbags would rather cut keep hours low and wages stagnated regardless of how much cheap labor they have on hand. It would definitely mean longer contracts though. That could be a good thing for renovators though. New housing means for development which means more habitat destruction. On the other hand, if companies are turning down jobs that leaves room for startups too.


Well even the scumbags have to deal with labor economics. If all their workers leave for other companies then they are fucked. They will HAVE to increase wages in order to stay in business.

I can confirm some businesses are turning down jobs because they are overloaded right now. So much is being built right now that a lot of companies have a huge backlog. Really thats a good thing. That means we have work for now and into the future for construction workers and tradesmen. I wish the best for all of them.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

Rujikin wrote:


MysticGon wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Cardamom_Ginger wrote:

I have not felt that in the workplace. I do work in construction as an industrial electrician. My latest job came to a close just last week, and let me say this; my higher ups made sure to skimp out about as much as possible, and I hear the same from other contacts in the field. It was to the point of the company I work for barely avoiding having their asses pulled through the ringer for the unpaid overtime that myself and the rest of the crew dealt with. This article looks good on paper, but the same greedy bastards run jobsites.


It probably depends on how much ICE is active in your area and if illegals were dragging down wages.

I've heard in California that landscaping companies don't make a living wage while where I live landscaping jobs pay $15 with no experience and $20 with decent experience. Cost of living is low so thats actually quite a bit of money.


I think he means the scumbags would rather cut keep hours low and wages stagnated regardless of how much cheap labor they have on hand. It would definitely mean longer contracts though. That could be a good thing for renovators though. New housing means for development which means more habitat destruction. On the other hand, if companies are turning down jobs that leaves room for startups too.


Well even the scumbags have to deal with labor economics. If all their workers leave for other companies then they are fucked. They will HAVE to increase wages in order to stay in business.

I can confirm some businesses are turning down jobs because they are overloaded right now. So much is being built right now that a lot of companies have a huge backlog.


Increased competition is always good. But contracts usually go to the lowest bidder so scumbags will still get theirs, which sucks. But your right. If the workers find out the competition is offering better rates they won't stay long but the sad part is there will always be some hungry people that'll keep the scumbags company going.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17
Well you guys clearly don't know anything about the construction industry.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

KevHunt wrote:

Well you guys clearly don't know anything about the construction industry.


Never worked in construction myself but I worked in a industry that is tied to it, have a friend in it. If you don't like my take on the situation I suggest to tell someone that gives a shit.
runec 
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/11/17

MysticGon wrote:
Increased competition is always good. But contracts usually go to the lowest bidder so scumbags will still get theirs, which sucks. But your right. If the workers find out the competition is offering better rates they won't stay long but the sad part is there will always be some hungry people that'll keep the scumbags company going.


More companies with labour shortages means less bidders on contracts to begin with as company's are unsure if they'll have enough labour. If you need a full crew for a 10 month project and 5 months in the "competition" is desperate to try and fill their own 10 month project so they hike wages. So some of your workers leave. Now you're filling open positions but have to hike wages yourself to poach workers from other companies. Now you're cutting your margin and risking going over budget all together for the price tag you committed to 5 months ago.

Industry demand is healthy. Industry shortage not so much.

Illegal immigrants and migrant workers are a supply for a demand. Cracking down on that supply does nothing at all to address the reason there's a demand in the first place. It just leaves industries short handed which isn't good for anyone.

Scapegoating immigrants, legal or otherwise, is one of the oldest political tricks in the book. It distracts people from focusing on why there's a demand in the first place. It's pointing to a symptom while you distract from the disease. Typically because fixing the disease would require work and possibly unpopular measures. Or because you are in some way benefiting directly from said disease politically or economically.

Also, all Trump has really done is frightened immigrants, legal and otherwise, into going back under the table so to speak. Deportations aren't up under Trump or anything. Only terrifying the shit out of people and treating them as sub-human has gone up under Trump. -.-

US immigration is already hopelessly overburdened as is. That was one of the reasons why Obama directed them to prioritize violent offenders, drug dealers, etc. Instead of just rounding up everyone at once. The system simply can't handle it and it can't deport people any faster no matter how much Trump yells at it.



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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
Increased competition is always good. But contracts usually go to the lowest bidder so scumbags will still get theirs, which sucks. But your right. If the workers find out the competition is offering better rates they won't stay long but the sad part is there will always be some hungry people that'll keep the scumbags company going.


More companies with labour shortages means less bidders on contracts to begin with as company's are unsure if they'll have enough labour. If you need a full crew for a 10 month project and 5 months in the "competition" is desperate to try and fill their own 10 month project so they hike wages. So some of your workers leave. Now you're filling open positions but have to hike wages yourself to poach workers from other companies. Now you're cutting your margin and risking going over budget all together for the price tag you committed to 5 months ago.

Industry demand is healthy. Industry shortage not so much.

Illegal immigrants and migrant workers are a supply for a demand. Cracking down on that supply does nothing at all to address the reason there's a demand in the first place. It just leaves industries short handed which isn't good for anyone.

Scapegoating immigrants, legal or otherwise, is one of the oldest political tricks in the book. It distracts people from focusing on why there's a demand in the first place. It's pointing to a symptom while you distract from the disease. Typically because fixing the disease would require work and possibly unpopular measures. Or because you are in some way benefiting directly from said disease politically or economically.

Also, all Trump has really done is frightened immigrants, legal and otherwise, into going back under the table so to speak. Deportations aren't up under Trump or anything. Only terrifying the shit out of people and treating them as sub-human has gone up under Trump. -.-

US immigration is already hopelessly overburdened as is. That was one of the reasons why Obama directed them to prioritize violent offenders, drug dealers, etc. Instead of just rounding up everyone at once. The system simply can't handle it and it can't deport people any faster no matter how much Trump yells at it.


Demand for workers in construction increase. Wages increase. People try to get into construction as it pays well and due to the backlog of work its become a safer and more stable job. People learn trade skills to fill the labor shortage. People go from working low paying jobs to good paying jobs. The low paying jobs must also increase wages to try and keep their business functioning. Wages slowly start going up across the board. As businesses demand more workers people who abandoned looking for work start looking for work as finding work becomes easier.

Learn economics sometime it will help you to critically think about policy decisions. I've simplified stuff for you.

Legal vs illegal immigrants is very important. One is an intruder and the other is a assistant or an American. Illegal immigration is the disease and low wages are the symptom.

Why would legal immigrants have anything to fear? They are here legally he can't do shit to them. Do you not understand what Legal Vs Illegal means?

Actually Trump yelling has caused Illegals to move up to Canada, back to Mexico, or return to their homeland in Mass. Read something a few days back that Canada was deploying troops to their border to assist with the Immigrants crossing their borders. So Trump has made the invaders not feel welcome and now they are leaving. +1 Trump
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17
In any market when the supply of labor goes down and demand stays the same then wages will rise so not really all that unexpected, that's just basic economics. It's also part of the reason why wages for skilled trades like plumbing and electrical are on the rise, not enough workers are being trained fast enough to replace those retiring, hence the high wages.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/5/17

sundin13 wrote:

I'm speaking from personal experience in the trades. There are jobs. I was given one despite having no knowledge of electrical work whatsoever. Half of my ex-coworkers had no experience and the other half had serious substance abuse issues. My boss took whatever he could get and was still usually understaffed. I also don't think I've seen anyone within 10 years of my age doing work in any of the houses I've worked on. I've had several family business heads saying that they are struggling to find workers because no one my age is getting into the trades.

Yes, there are certainly other factors, but from personal experience, I do think that there is an issue with no young people going into the trades, creating a worker shortage which will only get worse.

Also, I'm not really sure how outsourcing your plumber would work...


Now I live in Washington state so my knowledge base is not the be all end all. However I can tell you all trades are starving for anybody who is willing to work. The shortage of labor is mostly due to the economic crisis in 2008/2009 when most skilled trades grinded to a halt for over a year. This lead to most skilled labor leaving the skilled trades and retiring early go changing fields. I myself am an electrician and I can tell you my company is turning down jobs EVERY DAY that we wouldnt even have to bid on because we simply do not have enough labor. The Electrical Union halls will tell you more journey level electricians are leaving the field then people willing to join apprenticeships. This causes wage increases at least in my field, however this also means customers are alot more picky about what/how work is done. They are paying more and thus their expectations(sometimes bordering madness) are much higher. Oddly atleast to what I know of the only trades that take illegal immigrants in the "skilled trade" field are sheet rockers, insulation installers, and painters. All of which demand long hours, crap work conditions, and nobody really wants to do them even for "fair wages."

That said my concern if the US ever is able to stem illegal immigration is the cost of food. Currently produce is pretty cheap because most would agree the majority of the work force is illegal or temporary(H1B I think?). These are jobs that if forced to pay minimum wages would increase in cost so much your grocery bill might compete with mortgage/rent.


RyukoKuroki wrote:

*cough* Xenephobia *cough.*
*cough* Giant ass wall, representing a irrational fear of people from other countries who have become a scapegoat for a lot of Americas problems. *cough*


Forgive me for saying so but your argument is a strawman and based off of conjecture instead of facts. First of all please do not use words you are not 100% sure as to the definition. It bothers me to no end people tossing out words like Xenophobic, fascist, ect. Xenophobic is the intense dislike for people of other countries. I do not believe anyone here has stated any particular dislike for anyone not born in the US(If your xenophobic you dislike people even when they are not in your country). Saying you do not approve of criminals(People who immigrate illegally) is not xenophobic by any stretch of the imagination. Please stop drinking the cool-aid, People who come to this country illegally have broken at least 1 law. Though its a stretch(and definitely not the majority) one could argue if they broke atleast 1 law to get here how law abiding will they be? Now we know the vast majority for the most part are law abiding with the exception of illegally entering the country and in a lot of cases illegally using other peoples Social security #s. I personally have no issue with people from (insert country here) who become legal citizens or acquire visa's to be here. To those who have put in the effort to come to the US legally, illegals being forgiven is a slap in the face.

As to the wall you mentioned... I don't think its such a bad idea. Most border patrol are stretched so thin there are hoards of accounts of people simply walking over the boarder and disappearing into the US. IF we could erect some manner of deterrent to reduce the amount of manpower needed to keep illegal immigrants/drugs out of the country I think its worth at least considering. Whether you think its a good idea or not is why america is so divided on it. Oddly from the interviews I have seen it would seem the majority who live along the border are all for it. Where as the farther from the border you get the less well recieved it is. Just something to think about.

on a lighter note... the US could just buy/merge with Mexico. Clean up mexico and then our border would be much smaller on the southern tip of Mexico
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