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Post Reply Hurricanes
Posted 9/7/17
Jose is chasing his lover Irma.
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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17
Climate science is perceived as having two opposite directions - believers and deniers - precisely because it is heavily influenced by politics. Unfortunately, that makes any truth or insight difficult to know from published material. Unless you set up your own sensors, gather your own data, carefully evaluate for conflicts of interest in publicly available data (or just avoid it), and carry out good science with an understanding of statistical significance, measurement error, changes in how and where we measure, etc, you aren't going to "know" an answer. You might have faith in an answer, but that is not part of what we now call science.

Back to hurricanes, they are pretty neat things if you ignore all the destruction. The eye has a very low barometric pressure, and acts like a condenser for all the warm, moist air rushing in. In a way, it is sucking fresh water vapor from the surface of a warm ocean, condensing it into rain, blowing it higher into the atmosphere, and then depositing it in a wide spiraling path. Best desalinization method ever made! We should probably be living in monolithic concrete domes if we're near the coast though :)

So far, the single hurricane we've measured with the lowest barometric pressure in the eye was "Labor Day" in 1935. Here's a source for that, and some other basic/neat stuff: http://sciencing.com/barometric-pressure-hurricanes-22734.html . Imagine all that warm air expanding into the atmosphere, condensing out water, microscopically compressing the air in the polar regions as air moved across the planet. It's happening now too, in three places! Although not to such an extent in one place, at least not yet (based on the barometric pressure at the eye).

If that doesn't make you think what an active and interesting system we walk around in every day on the surface of this planet, I don't know what will. Take a moment to just observe, simulate the phenomena in your mind, and appreciate it. This is what science is about - observing what we can, measuring it when that helps us further our understanding, and trying to appreciate, understand, and form testable hypotheses about the things we find. Take advantage of the infinite opportunities to really know things, and enjoy them! Safely of course
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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17
In these situations "Humans" animal like instincts come into play. Our minds are overcome by fear of death and the only though we think of is to survive. Sadly this flaw in our design is not going to go away anytime soon. Why is it a flaw you may ask, the reason this is a flaw is because during a time like this "Humans" only think of themselves as our brains would have us do. However the survival rate of ourselves would be a lot better if everyone worked together in this kind of predicament. Instead we ravage all the places around us to try to save just ourselves and close family no one else. Doing this makes all situations more dangerous for the rest of us as people are acting on pure adrenaline and are not thinking rationally. With all this said, during times like this is when you need to be most on top of vigilant as the only thing more dangerous then this storm would be ourselves. Hoping you understand what I am saying I advice you put all emotions aside during this storm as they will do nothing for you, and do your best to remain rational.


Best Regards - ThyWhoGames
runec 
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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17

Nasigno wrote:
It's politics to bring in "THE EPA GUY APPOINTED BY TRUMP HATES CLIMATE CHANGE SCIENCE" into a discussion about Hurricanes. So, it is politics. You brought it into the discussion.


Actually, you brought that into the discussion. All I said was the idiot at the head of the EPA. If you want to get into the appointment behind it then sure, the guy is a climate change denier that's sued the EPA numerous times on behalf of fossil fuel industries. Who were big contributors to his political campaigns. His politics and the politicization of the EPA are not a secret.

You, however, cast politics on the veracity of climate science itself. Whereas I pointed out the politicization of a government agency. So trying to move your goalposts with a retroactive "Mommy, he hit me first" argument doesn't hold water.




Nasigno wrote:Either way, the day to day operations of the EPA are beyond either of our understanding, and I really don't care to try to figure out what crazy thing another Gov. organization is gonna waste tons of money into. I'd rather be worried about the existing issue in front of us, which is disaster preparedness and recovery. Cause guess what, that is only days away.


Your lack of intellectual curiosity regarding a topic does not render a topic irrelevant.




Nasigno wrote:
As for the climate change issue, when an fully viable and working model of how to fix issues is available, and when you can get the whole world in on it, then we can do something to marginally delay a natural process that will destroy us anyways. Its inevitable, ice ages existed before Humans, and plenty of ecological disasters are just sitting in waiting. So again, realize at the end of it, we are just delaying the inevitable.


"It looks too hard so why do anything?" is also a pretty terrible argument.

It's also not a natural process. We're doing this to ourselves.



namealreadytaken wrote:
tl;dr politics messed everything up as usual.


Indeed, but I'd rather not see the end of our species because some assholes in Congress are too craven to risk the votes of people they convinced it was a hoax in the first place.

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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17

runec wrote:

Actually, you brought that into the discussion. All I said was the idiot at the head of the EPA. If you want to get into the appointment behind it then sure, the guy is a climate change denier that's sued the EPA numerous times on behalf of fossil fuel industries. Who were big contributors to his political campaigns. His politics and the politicization of the EPA are not a secret.

You, however, cast politics on the veracity of climate science itself. Whereas I pointed out the politicization of a government agency. So trying to move your goalposts with a retroactive "Mommy, he hit me first" argument doesn't hold water.



Bringing up a head of an organization that is a political appointment is what you did, not me. Typical train of thought is to blame politics and the people who appoint them, as that is how it is always seen.



runec
Your lack of intellectual curiosity regarding a topic does not render a topic irrelevant.



More like I already work for 1 Government organization, and with my working knowledge of how it runs, which is going to be pretty much same across the board I'd say it is worth not bothering to invest effort into it, as guess what they are poorly ran from the get go. Take a moment to observe pretty much all of them and tell me you are satisfied with their work. Again, at the end of the day we are talking about major departments all ran by political agenda with a political appointee, and its work up to congressional budgeting. So again, even if the EPA had no head, the same results would occur, heck even by your own argument it is the case.


runec
"It looks too hard so why do anything?" is also a pretty terrible argument.

It's also not a natural process. We're doing this to ourselves.



All information says 5 or more major ice ages have occured in earth's history, apocalyptic asteroids, weather, volcanic, and other major issues have all occured and caused drastic climate shift, it -will- happen with, or without humans as it has already in earth's history.

Tomorrow yellowstone could erupt and kill all of the United States, the next dinosaur level asteroid could hit and force us into another global ice age and wipe all life on the planet. The sun will eventually not sustain any form of life we see today, the point is -it- will happen, or you going to blame humans for the sun decay? Yellowstone? or Asteroids in space?


runec

Indeed, but I'd rather not see the end of our species because some assholes in Congress are too craven to risk the votes of people they convinced it was a hoax in the first place.



I'd agree on that, but at the end of it it is going to be more than just 1 body of government that causes that. And even then, it is out of their hands.

As I said above, earth has had 5 major ice ages, which has resulted in five mass extinction events outside of human involvement. It's safe to say even if the 6th is to occur, it has happened without any level of human helping. Best I can say is, don't deny the science as it has proven without humans it -will- occur.

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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17

Nasigno wrote:

As I said above, earth has had 5 major ice ages, which has resulted in five mass extinction events outside of human involvement. It's safe to say even if the 6th is to occur, it has happened without any level of human helping. Best I can say is, don't deny the science as it has proven without humans it -will- occur.



"wild fires destroy houses and they're outside human involvement. it's safe to say, even if another house is victim to a wild fire, it happened without human intervention. now let me pour gasoline all over my house and smoke a few cigars on my porch."

edit:
back on topic:
at least 1 surfer died trying to ride the giant waves caused by Irma.
source: sfgate

tip of the day: don't try to ride a Tsunami. you will die.
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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17

namealreadytaken wrote:

"wild fires destroy houses and they're outside human involvement. it's safe to say, even if another house is victim to a wild fire, it happened without human intervention. now let me pour gasoline all over my house and smoke a few cigars on my porch."




Ah the hijacking of worries over hurricanes into a political agenda, the hilarity of it.

We'll let me just fuel for thought this, how much you willing to give up to actually make any form of dent into this issue?

Personally own vehicles?
All Plastic Products?
The sheer energy you consume on a day to day basis thanks to fossil fuels?

Or go a larger scale and say we need to cull the population to reduce energy demands and other economic resources?

Those are all just thoughts because guess what, till all those are gone or reduced significantly you are not going to see any change in global impact.

Basically if you don't get rid of humans from the equation of this, you aren't going to fix man-man impact on global warming. It's a plain fact. At the end of it, nothing we produce or how we produce it will have zero foot print, you are just delaying the inevitable.

Our best energy source to this date is Nuclear for a clean source, and we've barely made anything since the 1970s. Only a hundred operate in the United States, and meet 20% our need, despite being 60% of the emission free means at this moment. Just to even match current needs we'd have to increase by 500 new plants.

And even then, you still have vehicles and other aspects to deal with that won't just go away with "clean energy"

So honestly, till you got a plan actually in place, it is better to not speak on it, as half-baked options that never work.

Now, energy and climate change aside.

To those in the storm, stay safe and avoid acting stupid in the storm. As it is, Florida is going to face a harsh storm beyond what it has before and those that remain will have to tough it out. It would be best to take those mandatory evacuation orders and go with them, as nobody will come to help you in the storm and it is not worth risking life over stupidity that it won't be bad.

Even outside of Florida, it might not hit the rest of US at Cat 4+, but I can say first hand dealing with just the recent Matthew, even if it just a ton of rain, it will cause damage and to take it seriously. With this last storm I was on the front end of multiple dam failures and fast moving floods. Take it safe in the rest of the states and avoid taking unnecessary risks.
runec 
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Posted 9/7/17 , edited 9/7/17

Nasigno wrote:
Bringing up a head of an organization that is a political appointment is what you did, not me. Typical train of thought is to blame politics and the people who appoint them, as that is how it is always seen.


Political appointment is the only way to become the head of the EPA. You're making an argument for the sake of arguments.




Nasigno wrote:
More like I already work for 1 Government organization, and with my working knowledge of how it runs, which is going to be pretty much same across the board I'd say it is worth not bothering to invest effort into it, as guess what they are poorly ran from the get go. Take a moment to observe pretty much all of them and tell me you are satisfied with their work. Again, at the end of the day we are talking about major departments all ran by political agenda with a political appointee, and its work up to congressional budgeting. So again, even if the EPA had no head, the same results would occur, heck even by your own argument it is the case.


You just argued that you have no idea how the EPA operates and now you're arguing you do have insight into how it operates because you work for a different organization? Also no, the same results would not occur as I don't recall anyone prior to this appointing a political officer to filter grants to make sure a scientifically accepted position is removed for being politically inconvenient to his party.

Science is not a political position.




Nasigno wrote:All information says 5 or more major ice ages have occured in earth's history, apocalyptic asteroids, weather, volcanic, and other major issues have all occured and caused drastic climate shift, it -will- happen with, or without humans as it has already in earth's history.

Tomorrow yellowstone could erupt and kill all of the United States, the next dinosaur level asteroid could hit and force us into another global ice age and wipe all life on the planet. The sun will eventually not sustain any form of life we see today, the point is -it- will happen, or you going to blame humans for the sun decay? Yellowstone? or Asteroids in space?


Now you're trying to argue that because there's a none zero chance of an extinction level event we shouldn't bother averting the one we're creating ourselves? There's a probability we may all die and an eventuality Earth won't last forever so why bother avoiding a certainty?

Also, the "eventually" on the sun is billions of years. We're talking seeing a significant shift in the next 80.




Nasigno wrote:
As I said above, earth has had 5 major ice ages, which has resulted in five mass extinction events outside of human involvement. It's safe to say even if the 6th is to occur, it has happened without any level of human helping. Best I can say is, don't deny the science as it has proven without humans it -will- occur.


Sure, but the probability of an event doesn't mean you ignore it. Let alone ignoring a predictable event. Just because an asteroid might hit us doesn't mean we shouldn't keep developing the tech to spot and deflect or destroy them. Just because another ice age might happen doesn't mean we shouldn't prepare sweaters and firewood to survive it. I mean, we survived the last one and we certainly didn't have electricity or thermal underwear that time around.



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Posted 9/7/17
Wow there's some red herring defeatist bullshit going on here.

Irma looks like it might be rougher than most of the state has seen in a long time. Find a friend or shelter that's more structurally sound if you can. Don't worry about running to the store for water either. You can be fine filling any containers you might have around with tap water. If your area has any trouble with flooding though, you should really consider getting out.

After it's done, even if the house is fine, I could be looking at no power 'til October. Who knows. I knew paper books were still around for some reason.
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Posted 9/7/17
Howdy folks i am living in South Florida and we are getting ready to gear up for the storm, i know that we are getting supplies and boarding the house getting ready for this storm, please everybody be safe this is a monster of a storm.

I may not be able to watch shows on Crunchyroll for a while so please be safe, i even am going to cancel my ticket to see Lupin the Third with Fathom Events due to Irma, i really wanted to see the movie so bad but i have to be safe and well i may not have power for a while so i am going to cancel it.

Anyways everybody in Crunchyroll please be safe and pray for us ok, we can beat this storm.
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Posted 9/8/17 , edited 9/8/17

dreamnarcotic wrote:

Jose is chasing his lover Irma.


Lol...

Yeah this'll be worse than Charlie in '04.
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Posted 9/8/17
Looks to me like a lot of fools who failed to prepare for a natural disaster.

If even 50% of the people did the smart thing and bought an extra can of beans and bottle of water every other week, then stuffed it away for emergancies, it would not even be that bad. Still shit, but you wouldn't have people struggling and panicing over food, water and other basic needs.

Granted, what do I know, I live in an area that is pritty safe from natural disasters. Worst we can get is a 60mph wind storm, a 'mild' thunderstorm, or the worst of them all, a flash freeze, slush swamp, or just sheer cold (-10 f) in the winter.
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Posted 9/8/17

Lance_Clemings wrote:

Looks to me like a lot of fools who failed to prepare for a natural disaster.

If even 50% of the people did the smart thing and bought an extra can of beans and bottle of water every other week, then stuffed it away for emergancies, it would not even be that bad. Still shit, but you wouldn't have people struggling and panicing over food, water and other basic needs.


Except some of the areas that were already hit were on small islands with low income families. It is better for people to get supplies to protect their home before getting the water. Like others said, you can get tap water. And the other day, the Lowe's me and my dad went to was already emptying with wood and barriers. And about the stashing thing, yeah, it's a smart thing to do, but no one expected this hurricane to gain power so fast.
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Posted 9/8/17
I did not worry about hurricanes even when I lived near Tampa Bay area, but really you should have evacuated last week.
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Posted 9/8/17
Gonna be pissed if all this natural disaster stuff is what ends the world.

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