Post Reply Anime Logic | heros always win
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29 / M
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Posted 9/8/17 , edited 9/9/17
why is it that the heros win through the power of friendship or a goal they are after
but never the villain? dont they have a goal or people they fight for? if so why do they lose?
for example One Piece or Fairy Tail most of the time one side wins cause they matter more?
why? if super hero shows teach us anything, is even bad guys have lifes too
yet anime always ignores that and is planned out for them to lose even though they be fighting for the same reasons some times. or even in yugioh its very bad. with the main trusting the heart of the cards hax. pull and play the card to win but really they feel hopeless when at the end oh but wait i got this super awesome card to cheat the duel
cause you know, screw the rules. im the main so i say i will win.
when ever the opponent has a killer attack plan the main always finds away around to cheat
geeze.
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22 / M / Prison
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Posted 9/8/17 , edited 9/9/17
To quote a reviewer, fiction can be realistic to history, but there is a reason why we do not usually regale tales of those who died halfway through. It is pointless, with nothing accomplished in regards to readers expectation. There is nothing to celebrate when nothing is done, and effort is only half the formula. There is a novelty to it, but it wears off quickly with how easily it can be applied. I would not want to read a story like that, and for me, this isn't limited to traditional heroics, but any protagonist in general.


Also, this is hardly "anime" logic, but applicable to nearly any fictional medium and genre.
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32 / some where heaven...
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/9/17
well,everyone want to be a winner and becoming a heroes is one of it....whatever genre of it the MC/heroes will always win and for us as an audience sure want to watch heroes that winn rather than watching a weak heroes
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45 / M / Corpus Christi, T...
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/9/17

Darkwolf068 wrote:

why is it that the heros win through the power of friendship or a goal they are after
but never the villain?


Because that is what people want to see. The real world is shitty enough; most folks don't watch anime (or movies or TV, or read books) because they want fictional shitty as well.
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/9/17

Darkwolf068 wrote:

why is it that the heros win through the power of friendship or a goal they are after
but never the villain? dont they have a goal or people they fight for? if so why do they lose?
for example One Piece or Fairy Tail most of the time one side wins cause they matter more?
why? if super hero shows teach us anything, is even bad guys have lifes too
yet anime always ignores that and is planned out for them to lose even though they be fighting for the same reasons some times. or even in yugioh its very bad. with the main trusting the heart of the cards hax. pull and play the card to win but really they feel hopeless when at the end oh but wait i got this super awesome card to cheat the duel
cause you know, screw the rules. im the main so i say i will win.
when ever the opponent has a killer attack plan the main always finds away around to cheat
geeze.


The Greeks divided fiction into two types, tragedy, where the main character loses, and comedy where the main character succeeds. Also even the oldest stories such as the Epic of Gilgamesh tend to reflect the morals of the culture that created them, so of course the "good guys" are going to win. Unless it is to teach a point, Aesop's Fables and Grimm's Fairy Tales have a number of those stories. Basically, bad guys exist in fiction for the hero to overcome
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/9/17
If I want to see things where the bad guys are sometimes winning all I have to do is look at the news. I think most guys would rather see shows on the order of the good guy going and slaying the evil dragon and rescuing the princess. I think most gals would rather see shows where there is lots of RELATIONSHIP ending in a happy ending. That, BTW, is what is in a lot of shojo manga/anime
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F / BuBbLeS!
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/9/17
not all anime does the good guy win, but for the most part that's how it goes, in many cases, realistically, no one really wants the bad guy to win, but that's the joys of life and fiction, who's really the bad guy, there's a thin red line present. to consider themselves the hero or villain is far easier in fiction than real life. someone mentioned history, that's a strong point, but also based on realistic facts and polls, etc. which makes a person wonder, if they are cheering on the villain were their character really that developed or was the so called good guy not really the good guy. character development and design are key rolls in fiction, we don't get that honor in real life. we sort of have to hope for the best in many cases.
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/9/17
"Fiction" logic. FTFY

Also the reason for this is because any good story requires the protagonist to have a driving goal. And they need to want that goal more than anything, even more than the antagonist wants to stop them from achieving it. A story by it's nature is about each step the protagonist takes in order to reach that goal. There's supposed to be moments where it looks like they will fail, but they should never actually fail. It wouldn't make any sense if a villain was to win in the hero's personal journey.
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/10/17
I'm not sure how far you've made it into One Piece, and I won't throw out any spoilers here, but I will say that the main protagonists in that story do not always win, and generally when they do win it's because they've overcome some challenge, learned some piece of useful information, taken a major risk, or sacrificed something to do so. In fact, beneath the smiles, laughter, and goofiness the Straw Hats are all pretty tragically broken people just trying to get something, anything, that they can treasure in their lives when you get right down to it. Oda is plainly sadistic to his characters when he writes backstories.
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/10/17
There are plenty of tragedies where the heroes either lose or they succeed but at a price too great to be called a victory. Gen Urobuchi shows tend to have a high chance of the latter.

I can think of an anime as recent as earlier this year where the "heroes" lost and the villains got away with everything they did. Saying its name would be a massive spoiler but those who've seen it know what I'm talking about.
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Posted 9/9/17 , edited 9/10/17

PhantomGundam wrote:

There are plenty of tragedies where the heroes either lose or they succeed but at a price too great to be called a victory. Gen Urobuchi shows tend to have a high chance of the latter.

I can think of an anime as recent as earlier this year where the "heroes" lost and the villains got away with everything they did. Saying its name would be a massive spoiler but those who've seen it know what I'm talking about.


That is called Pyrrhic Victory, to reference the Pyrrhic War.
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Posted 9/11/17 , edited 9/11/17
This logic is actually common to fiction stories in general and might had existed since ancient human begin telling stories. It arise from the egocentric bias of humans which is found in social primates as well and may be a general tendency of animals in general. The concept of hero and villain is subjective and depend on the perspective of the person; a hero to one people may be a villain to another people. The hero did not always win in anime, or other fiction stories, but they tend to win since history is often written by the winners; in this case, it is the winner who became the hero and not the hero who became the winner. The winners wrote the history in their perspective where they are portrayed as the hero.
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27 / F / Various
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Posted 9/11/17 , edited 9/11/17
That only happens in bad shows.

Anime, movies, books, every medium, bad fiction has that. In good fiction, there are no heroes or villains, only opposing sides that are both sympathetic.


sinoakayumi wrote:

This logic is actually common to fiction stories in general and might had existed since ancient human begin telling stories. It arise from the egocentric bias of humans which is found in social primates as well and may be a general tendency of animals in general. The concept of hero and villain is subjective and depend on the perspective of the person; a hero to one people may be a villain to another people. The hero did not always win in anime, or other fiction stories, but they tend to win since history is often written by the winners; in this case, it is the winner who became the hero and not the hero who became the winner. The winners wrote the history in their perspective where they are portrayed as the hero.




This is true, but there are many, many stories that have overcome this by showing both sides. There are actually more good stories of that sort in anime than in other media. So I don't know why the OP thinks this is an anime trait.

Unless they're only watching bad (i.e. shonen) anime.
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29 / M / St.Louis
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Posted 9/11/17 , edited 9/11/17
didn't we just have a thread about ash losing in pokemon all the time just recently
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