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Post Reply Enough is enough. The mass shootings has gone too far.
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Posted 10/7/17

namealreadytaken wrote:


Mhdamaster wrote:social/economical stability.


wasn't the guy responsible for mass-shooting a multi-millionaire though? he had several houses and made high-stakes gambling.
money clearly wasn't an issue for him.



Yeah maybe the problem wasn't economic. Maybe it was social. There is plenty of unrest nowadays. Specially on the internet and news where things get a spotlight and sometimes things get blown out of proportion. Simply put something must have made him do it. People don't just gun down strangers for no reason.
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Posted 10/7/17
The Goverment can't do much if they do anything to make gun harder to get then alot of people will get angry and maybe Violent.
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Posted 10/7/17
What are you saying? Mass killing is part of the American history in the treatment toward people of the colored castes and a recent news article from Yahoo had explained more about this: Several instances of mass shooting against the Native Americans occur due to an accusation that was later proven false. The death of Native Americans number in the hundreds for each mass shooting. At a time from the 1800s to 1900s, an African American community in US has become so rich that they are called the "black wall street" and that black community get destroyed by jealous European Americans. Hundreds of black people died from the mass shooting by the white attackers and there are also reports of planes dropping bombs to destroy the property of the successful black community. The Las Vegas shooting is reported as the worst in American history only because of the many victims from the white caste.
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Posted 10/7/17

sinoakayumi wrote:

The Las Vegas shooting is reported as the worst in American history only because of the many victims from the white caste.


Reported as the worst in modern American history*, which is a true statement.
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Posted 10/7/17 , edited 10/7/17
Can't tell if OP is troll, trying to sound like trump, or both


sinoakayumi wrote:

Mfw people use sensationalist headlines as their newest race card.
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Posted 10/8/17

sinoakayumi wrote:

What are you saying? Mass killing is part of the American history in the treatment toward people of the colored castes and a recent news article from Yahoo had explained more about this: Several instances of mass shooting against the Native Americans occur due to an accusation that was later proven false. The death of Native Americans number in the hundreds for each mass shooting. At a time from the 1800s to 1900s, an African American community in US has become so rich that they are called the "black wall street" and that black community get destroyed by jealous European Americans. Hundreds of black people died from the mass shooting by the white attackers and there are also reports of planes dropping bombs to destroy the property of the successful black community. The Las Vegas shooting is reported as the worst in American history only because of the many victims from the white caste.

Sources? Prefer Academic, Peer-reviewed.
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Posted 10/8/17
The government was behind this 100% there was video proof that someone was shooting into people on the ground level where everyone was at. It got taken down real quick on social media. Cnn and fox are poruing out lies. The government wants our guns taken from us so they can control us.
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Posted 10/8/17

anikevin wrote:

Obtained legally or illegally, I've always been against civilians handling any kind of firearm. It's just too much power to who knows whom.


Thank God you arent in charge. Criminals get guns whether they are legal are not. Take away law abiding citizen's guns and criminals dont have a worry in the world. He wouldnt have had to do it from the 33rd floor of a hotel. He could just walk down the street mowing everyone down without a care or worry that a citizen might shoot him and stop him.

Especially in the US, home invasions would skyrocket. People who dont give a fk are out there, I have known many of them personally in my past. If they didnt have to worry about you reaching for your gun they would rob everybody.

Dumbest logic ever to take away normal peoples guns/ right to carry.

The cities in the US with the highest crime rates/ gun violence are the ones with the strictest gun laws.
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Posted 10/8/17 , edited 10/8/17

sundin13 wrote:
1) Its a bit hard to brush off having a significantly higher homicide rate than most other highly developed nations as "not a big deal". The USA's homicide rate is about three times higher than that of Canada and France, over four times higher than that of Sweden, and 5-8 times higher than UK, Germany, Spain and Ireland.

2) You are a bit wrong to say that ownership of guns has been going up. It actually has been going down since, like, the '70s. What has been going up is the number of guns per gun owner. Basically, instead of a lot of individuals having a few guns each, a few individuals have a ton of guns which skews the numbers if you are looking at a raw "guns/person" calculation. Instead, if you look at data regarding the percentage of households with a gun, you would see a steady decline.

3) I've responded to the mental health point several times so I will just repost my last post here:

"I've already posted a few times about this subject, and while our mental health system in this country is severely lacking, full mental health reform would do little to actually remedy violence. A small fraction of violence is committed by those with diagnosed mental illness and little link has been found between mental illness and violence. While mass shootings tend to be committed by those with mental illnesses proportionally more than the general public, those with mental illnesses don't come close to being a majority and even if they did, the manifestations of their illness often make it difficult to actually get them into the mental health treatment system.

I've said it a few times, but there is no silver bullet. Just as you cannot point to guns and say "here's your problem", you can't point to mental illness or any other factor and think you've solved the issue. The issue is multifaceted and should be treated as such. Yes, we should improve our mental health system, but even if we were to magically cure everyone of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression, violence would only go down by about 4% (assuming none of the cured people ever committed a crime)."


konjfful wrote:
What people don't realize is that people will still illegally own guns if guns were illegal, look at fucking Paris, they have so many shootings and no one is allowed to own a fucking gun there. There's the fucking problem, no one has a gun to defend themselves, so they all get shot down by other people with guns.


Since you told me to, I decided to take a look at Paris:

The average homicide rate in Paris is about 1.6/100,000.
The average homicide rate in the USA is about 4.9/100,000. But if you look at cities in the USA, those rates rise to some pretty astronomical heights, getting up to 59.3/100,000.


1) Ahh the inevitable "but but we have more gun homicides compared to other countries" argument. Which is a terrible argument. The most simple and blatantly obvious reason is..WE HAVE GUNS! Of course we're going to have a higher gun homicide rate compared to a country that has gun BANS since you know..we kinda have guns and they don't. That's simple statistics. If we lowered our drinking age down to 18 we'd see a spike in DUI related death, accidents, alcohol related deaths,etc. Again, simple statistics. However what most of these people fail to mention is EVEN IF you completely take out our gun homicide rates WE STILL have a higher murder rate than most other countries we're compared to, this leads more so towards a people problem. What people also fail to mention is that's not a universal fact. Some countries with gun bans have higher gun murders than us. Some countries with super tight restrictions also have more. But some countries don't. This is also widely different from state to state. Some states with strict gun laws and lower gun ownership rates per capita have more killings than states with relaxed laws and tons of guns. This is also vice versa. California is in the top 10 states with most gun homicides despite how restrictive they are and despite one of the lowest gun ownership rates per capita. It's almost as if guns aren't the most and only important variable. Which should be obvious since it's more to do with socioeconomics as the root cause of gun violence. Also trying to imply 'gun bans/laws worked for that country, let's do that' well that won't work. It would actually fail epically possibly ending in a violent civil war. Take for instance Australia. It has a population of 25 million. We have 90 million gun owners. Just our gun owner population exceeds their entire population by almost 4x. It's very easy to claim gun control worked in a country that barely had any armed people, didn't have 300+million guns in circulation, didn't have a gun culture and ultimately didn't really care all that much about guns. This can apply to every EU country as well. Yeah we're way, way, way past that point.

2) This one is ultimately hard to prove. Since some states don't require it to be registered (which is where they get the data from) whilst people can be illegally owning them. Multiple polls state different numbers. The problem is most of them are done via self reporting polls.

3) Ultimately people only whine about gun control after mass shootings when it's a bandwagon topic. Gun control measures have almost zero steam any other time. So since the topic is 'mass shootings' you state "While mass shootings tend to be committed by those with mental illnesses proportionally more than the general public." arguably they make up ALL mass shootings. Since most end in suicide (signs of depression) and honestly anyone willing to mow down innocent people you just have to have a screw loose. Then I do believe I suggested a mental health check and expanded background checks to said mental health database. So ultimately wouldn't the thing I suggested do far more to reduce mass shootings than most of the proposed bandaid fixes?
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Posted 10/8/17

weeitsnookies wrote:


sundin13 wrote:
1) Its a bit hard to brush off having a significantly higher homicide rate than most other highly developed nations as "not a big deal". The USA's homicide rate is about three times higher than that of Canada and France, over four times higher than that of Sweden, and 5-8 times higher than UK, Germany, Spain and Ireland.

2) You are a bit wrong to say that ownership of guns has been going up. It actually has been going down since, like, the '70s. What has been going up is the number of guns per gun owner. Basically, instead of a lot of individuals having a few guns each, a few individuals have a ton of guns which skews the numbers if you are looking at a raw "guns/person" calculation. Instead, if you look at data regarding the percentage of households with a gun, you would see a steady decline.

3) I've responded to the mental health point several times so I will just repost my last post here:

"I've already posted a few times about this subject, and while our mental health system in this country is severely lacking, full mental health reform would do little to actually remedy violence. A small fraction of violence is committed by those with diagnosed mental illness and little link has been found between mental illness and violence. While mass shootings tend to be committed by those with mental illnesses proportionally more than the general public, those with mental illnesses don't come close to being a majority and even if they did, the manifestations of their illness often make it difficult to actually get them into the mental health treatment system.

I've said it a few times, but there is no silver bullet. Just as you cannot point to guns and say "here's your problem", you can't point to mental illness or any other factor and think you've solved the issue. The issue is multifaceted and should be treated as such. Yes, we should improve our mental health system, but even if we were to magically cure everyone of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression, violence would only go down by about 4% (assuming none of the cured people ever committed a crime)."


konjfful wrote:
What people don't realize is that people will still illegally own guns if guns were illegal, look at fucking Paris, they have so many shootings and no one is allowed to own a fucking gun there. There's the fucking problem, no one has a gun to defend themselves, so they all get shot down by other people with guns.


Since you told me to, I decided to take a look at Paris:

The average homicide rate in Paris is about 1.6/100,000.
The average homicide rate in the USA is about 4.9/100,000. But if you look at cities in the USA, those rates rise to some pretty astronomical heights, getting up to 59.3/100,000.


1) Ahh the inevitable "but but we have more gun homicides compared to other countries" argument. Which is a terrible argument. The most simple and blatantly obvious reason is..WE HAVE GUNS! Of course we're going to have a higher gun homicide rate compared to a country that has gun BANS since you know..we kinda have guns and they don't. That's simple statistics. If we lowered our drinking age down to 18 we'd see a spike in DUI related death, accidents, alcohol related deaths,etc. Again, simple statistics. However what most of these people fail to mention is EVEN IF you completely take out our gun homicide rates WE STILL have a higher murder rate than most other countries we're compared to, this leads more so towards a people problem. What people also fail to mention is that's not a universal fact. Some countries with gun bans have higher gun murders than us. Some countries with super tight restrictions also have more. But some countries don't. This is also widely different from state to state. Some states with strict gun laws and lower gun ownership rates per capita have more killings than states with relaxed laws and tons of guns. This is also vice versa. California is in the top 10 states with most gun homicides despite how restrictive they are and despite one of the lowest gun ownership rates per capita. It's almost as if guns aren't the most and only important variable. Which should be obvious since it's more to do with socioeconomics as the root cause of gun violence. Also trying to imply 'gun bans/laws worked for that country, let's do that' well that won't work. It would actually fail epically possibly ending in a violent civil war. Take for instance Australia. It has a population of 25 million. We have 90 million gun owners. Just our gun owner population exceeds their entire population by almost 4x. It's very easy to claim gun control worked in a country that barely had any armed people, didn't have 300+million guns in circulation, didn't have a gun culture and ultimately didn't really care all that much about guns. This can apply to every EU country as well. Yeah we're way, way, way past that point.

2) This one is ultimately hard to prove. Since some states don't require it to be registered (which is where they get the data from) whilst people can be illegally owning them. Multiple polls state different numbers. The problem is most of them are done via self reporting polls.

3) Ultimately people only whine about gun control after mass shootings when it's a bandwagon topic. Gun control measures have almost zero steam any other time. So since the topic is 'mass shootings' you state "While mass shootings tend to be committed by those with mental illnesses proportionally more than the general public." arguably they make up ALL mass shootings. Since most end in suicide (signs of depression) and honestly anyone willing to mow down innocent people you just have to have a screw loose. Then I do believe I suggested a mental health check and expanded background checks to said mental health database. So ultimately wouldn't the thing I suggested do far more to reduce mass shootings than most of the proposed bandaid fixes?


1) Those numbers are total homicides, not just gun homicides. If you look only at gun homicides, obviously the discrepancy grows even further. But my point wasn't that guns are the cause of the significantly higher homicide rates in the USA, just that it is ridiculous to act like there is no problem because "only" 16,000 people get murdered per year. That is a frankly terrible argument when you look at how much higher the USA is than pretty much every one of our contemporaries. Yeah, if you look at South Africa and Iraq you see higher homicide rates but the country that is nearest to us in homicide rate that is at all comparable to the USA would be Canada with a homicide rate about 1/3 of what we have here...

Theres a problem. You can say what you want about the cause of the problem but don't act like there is no problem.

Also, gun control doesn't mean "take all the guns". Just saying...

2) While actual gun ownership/household numbers fluctuate with different polling methods, a decrease in gun ownership is pretty consistent across the board.

3) Mental health reform will do little to address mass shootings as only about 1/5-2/5 of mass shooters have a diagnosable serious mental illness and often it is near impossible to actually get these people into the mental health system due to the manifestations of their mental illness. It is far from a silver bullet.
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Posted 10/8/17 , edited 10/25/17
There is a problem in the United States and it is not legally owned guns. The problem is illegal guns and the criminals that use them. The US Department of Justice speculates that around 90% of gun homicides in the United States are gang related. You leave the big cities where entire neighborhoods have been turned into war zones and the firearm murder rate drops dramatically. The majority of the weapons used in these gang related murders are themselves illegal. Illegal weapons are smuggled in (alongside illegal immigrants and drugs) and distributed to gang members who then kill each other. Other countries do not the same gang problems the United States has.

If you really want to address gun violence you have to stop the illegal arms flow and come down hard on inner city gangs. Problem is the US will do neither out of fear of being called racist.
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Posted 10/8/17
LOL

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Posted 10/8/17

TenzenShadow wrote:


anikevin wrote:

Obtained legally or illegally, I've always been against civilians handling any kind of firearm. It's just too much power to who knows whom.


Thank God you arent in charge. Criminals get guns whether they are legal are not. Take away law abiding citizen's guns and criminals dont have a worry in the world. He wouldnt have had to do it from the 33rd floor of a hotel. He could just walk down the street mowing everyone down without a care or worry that a citizen might shoot him and stop him.

Especially in the US, home invasions would skyrocket. People who dont give a fk are out there, I have known many of them personally in my past. If they didnt have to worry about you reaching for your gun they would rob everybody.

Dumbest logic ever to take away normal peoples guns/ right to carry.

The cities in the US with the highest crime rates/ gun violence are the ones with the strictest gun laws.


"Criminals get guns whether they are legal or not"
That's what the police is for. To enforce that nobody gets guns.
Of course it's not gonna be perfect, but at least I know American police will do a better job than a third world police officer that looks away the moment you give him 10 bucks.




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Posted 10/8/17
wow that's so awsome
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Posted 10/8/17
Imagine not knowing the biggest cause of gun violence is liberals owning guns.
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Posted 10/8/17

Ravenstein wrote:

There is a problem in the United States and it is not legally owned guns. The problem is illegal guns and the criminals that use them. The US Department of Justice speculates that around 90% of gun homicides in the United States are gang related. You leave the big cities where entire neighborhoods have been turned into war zones and the firearm murder rate drops dramatically. The majority of the weapons used in these gang related murders are themselves illegal. Illegal weapons are smuggled in (alongside illegal immigrants and drugs) and distributed to gang members who then kill each other. Other countries do not the same gang problems the United States has.

If you really want to address gun violence you have to stop the illegal arms flow and come down hard on inner city gangs. Problem is the US will do neither out of fear of being called racist.


You are right that illegal guns and gang violence contribute a lot to the crime issues in the USA. That said, a big part of the illegal gun problem comes from within the US, not Mexico. Because of lax gun laws in the United States, you actually see a ton of guns smuggled out of the USA into Mexico, not the other way around. Mexico estimates that 2000 guns are smuggled from the USA per day.

Further, you also see patterns with illegal guns in the United States where guns used in crimes in states with strict gun laws often come from other states with less strict gun laws. In New York and New Jersey, two states with strict gun laws, over 2/3 of guns tied to criminal activity were from out of state purchases (stats from 2014).

While the phrase "illegal weapon" makes it easy to think "oh, theres nothing we could do", fact is, pretty much every illegal gun was legal at some point. Right now, the law just makes it really easy for legal guns to turn into illegal guns.
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