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Post Reply Haganai: Sympathy for the Sena
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17
Please allow me to introduce this girl
she’s a girl of wealth and odd taste
She’s come around as a second year
Stole many a boy's heart to waste

She was ‘round when Kobato
came to her house with attitude
Made damn sure that Kodaka
swears he didn’t see her nude

She’s pleased to meet you
Hope you guess her name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of her shame

She stuck around St. Chronica's
When she saw it was a time for a change
Joined the Neighbors Club as a member
Yozora screamed in vain

As a boy, she played a dating sim
The girl she chose broke up with him
When the rumors raged
And her outlook was grim

She’s pleased to meet you
Hope you guess her name
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of her shame

She watched with glee
While the King Game teens
Fought for hours
Over the rules they made

She shouted out,
Who betrayed my trust?
When after all
It was the girl with less bust

She’s pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed her name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of her shame,

Just as every friend is an enemy
And all the nuns aren’t saints
As heads is tails
Just call her Sena
'Cause she’s in need of some restraint

So if you meet her
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or you’ll lay her heart to waste


So I am up to Haganai Season 2 episode 7 and I can’t help feeling the most sympathy for Sena.
She seems to be a very sweet girl at heart with a strong desire to make friends. Her haughty attitude breaks free some time, but it seems an obvious mask for her insecurities. Even her attempts to get back at Yozora seem to lack the spite that she herself receives from Yozora.

I don’t think she really gets the proper guidance at home from her father either. He may love his daughter and want what is best for her, but it seems he does a crappy job of communicating with her. Hand to butt doesn’t seem to be a very effective means of communication.

I am not sure why he got so angry at her when she was given the ridiculous hair style by Rika and Yozora. It wasn’t something that would physically hurt her or anyone else. It made her look like a fool, but that in of itself was punishment enough. I am sure his anger hurt her feelings, and then he compounded it by spanking her. He should do a better job of understanding that his daughter is having a hard time finding friends, and that she just wants to be liked. Instead of spanking, her he should explain that people are taking advantage of her. Although, he did show some insight when he asked Kodaka if his daughter was being bullied.

Kodaka who seems to represent the straight man of the series doesn’t seem to help her plight much either, and he obviously knows what is going on. He lied through his teeth to Sena’s father when he denied that Sena was being bullied at school. Then he compounded that lie when he said he would step in to protect her if he ever saw her being bullied. . Yozora absolutely bullies Sena. The only time I can remember Kodaka ever stepping in was in the OVA when Yozora was depicting Sena being raped in the street and Kodaka told her she was being mean. There are several events after Kodaka swears to protect Sena that he stands by and watches Yozora bully her.

Kodaka could have stopped the hair poof incident by telling Yozora and Rika that they were making her look ridiculous, or he could have used a more neutral method by telling Sena that he preferred her normal hair style and that her father would likely be mad at her if she came home looking as she did. Instead he said nothing, knowing full well it would get Sena in trouble. The next day, the poor girl came to him, expressed her embarrassment at being taken advantage of, and expressed her mental pain from her father’s anger, and the embarrassment and pain from the spanking he gave her. His empathy for her didn’t go beyond saying “that sucks” and mentally congratulating her father for spanking her. That would have been a prime moment to warn her about people manipulating her.

Then her father spanked her again for the “sexy beam” incident. Obviously climbing onto the roof was a dangerous stunt, but instead of spanking her, he should have asked her why she did it, and explained that she had been taken advantage of. Kodaka finally did tell her that she fell for a trick, but that just ended up making her feel worse. She was tricked by people who are supposed to be her friends, she felt her father’s disappointment, and she felt the embarrassment and pain of him spanking her. It does seem like Kodaka tried to save her from some embarrassment when she confronted Yozora though. When Sena was about to tell Yozora that she was spanked for pulling the stunt, Kodaka stopped her and said she should be used to her dad “yelling” at her. Yozora would probably have used the knowledge that Sena got spanked to embarrass her even more. Although again, to me this illustrates the poor girl’s plight: abused by her supposed friends at school, spanked and scolded by her father at home.

She is a 16 or 17 year old girl. He isn’t going to be able to spank common sense into her. She also seems to be fairly sweet, and she isn’t intentionally trying to do bad things. She is trying to fit in, and she just doesn’t understand how to do that. Understanding and teaching are what Sena needs, not punishment. Seems to me her father is only damaging her self-esteem more and exacerbating her eccentric actions. Afterall, the way he raised her is partly to blame for her awkwardness.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17
I love Haganai! I agree that Sena never deserves the hate she gets. I like Yozora a lot too. The only one I never cared for much was the foul-mouthed Rikka. But my favorite is Yukimura! Best scene in the entire series? The Black Dragon Roller Coaster ride.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17
Sena is overwhelmingly liked, since she is well adjusted, well endowed, wealthy, and kind.

Yozora gets a fair amount of hate, and although I enjoyed her earlier witticisms, I began to dislike her as the story progressed, though I do not hate her. As one of the more entertaining characters, she could have stayed great, but Haganai's author handled her terribly, pushing Sena to an almost heavenly image of perfection, while turning Yozora into a complete angst monster. At that point, I do not seem them as characters, and more as the imagined machinations that they are, which symptomatic of the main problem here; the writing is too obvious, the strings pulled too apparently, and I notice how forced everything is.

Also, Haganai ended terribly, and is one of the worst romantic comedies I have read, and has an utterly naive understanding of relationships. Apparently, the author does not understand why one wouldn't "shit where they eat", an axiom regarding why it is optimal to not date (eat) anyone like a coworker at your job (shit).



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Maybe in the next 5 episodes I will find some sympathy for Yozora, but to this point she has just been too hateful.

There was a moment after Sena went to Yozora and basically told her that she had crushed Sena's spirit. Yozora seemed like she finally might have some empathy, then when Sena saw Kobato was back, Yozora shirked her apology to Sena by saying her fortune had improved after all. The writers may have seen that as a way for Yozora to soften the blow of tricking Sena, but I just saw it as a cop out for an actual apology.

There really hasn't been much of a back story for Yozora's attitude yet. The fact that Kodaka moved away without being able to tell her seems like a rather weak catalyst for her anti-social behavior. It might be that she just doesn't really like people, as seen when she gets sick in crowds. I think her motivation for forming the Neighbors Club was just an excuse to spend time with Kodaka, and not make friends.

Rikka just seems like a one dimensional character.

My further dislike of Pegasus comes from the fact that I found out that Stella is his daughter and Sena's half sister. I don't have a problem with the fact that she works as her father's butler, but come on, can't she still be treated like family and eat dinner with them and sleep in quarters better than servants quarters?
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Sena is overwhelmingly liked, since she is well adjusted, well endowed, wealthy, and kind.




Well according to the anime anyway, she is liked by the boys, not by the girls. The boys only like her for her body. This fact was illustrated when they talked about the previous year's school festival. She thought everyone liked her for her athleticism and acting prowess, but Rikka and Yozora said all the girls found her to be annoying and all the boys just liked watching her breasts while she ran and seeing her panties in the play.

She wants to be friends with girls, and apparently is tired of the fact that the only reason boys want to be her friend is to get in her pants.

I am not sure about the well adjusted part either. She is obviously extremely naive. She seems to be socially awkward because she uses video games as a means to learn real world socialization. She also seems to be very insecure about the fact that she doesn't have female friends.

I still have a problem with the fact that her father is spanking a 16-17 year old girl for mostly harmless and well meaning antics.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17

HOOfan_1 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Sena is overwhelmingly liked, since she is well adjusted, well endowed, wealthy, and kind.




Well according to the anime anyway, she is liked by the boys, not by the girls. The boys only like her for her body. This fact was illustrated when they talked about the previous year's school festival. She thought everyone liked her for her athleticism and acting prowess, but Rikka and Yozora said all the girls found her to be annoying and all the boys just liked watching her breasts while she ran and seeing her panties in the play.

She wants to be friends with girls, and apparently is tired of the fact that the only reason boys want to be her friend is to get in her pants.

I am not sure about the well adjusted part either. She is obviously extremely naive. She seems to be socially awkward because she uses video games as a means to learn real world socialization. She also seems to be very insecure about the fact that she doesn't have female friends.

I still have a problem with the fact that her father is spanking a 16-17 year old girl for mostly harmless and well meaning antics.


I am talking about the real life fan base. People who prefer Sena make up a good majority of the viewerswith Rika and Yozora being in second place.My hatred mainly stems from how in the later volumes and episodes she seems to be a "creator's pet", going to be so kind as to feel hurt and dejected when Yozora vehemently declares her hatred her. Wait, what? Yozora has always been an ass to you, why would feel bad to be rejected? This goes beyond being a decent, well meaning person into sainthood.

Isn't this what the thread would be discussing?
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17
It's scary how much 2D fans can defend a girl simply because she's beautiful.

I read the Novels, watched the anime and currently reading the manga. When was Sena ever a good person? She's the perfect example of a spoiled little brat ~
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17

Takuzaki wrote:

It's scary how much 2D fans can defend a girl simply because she's beautiful.

I read the Novels, watched the anime and currently reading the manga. When was Sena ever a good person? She's the perfect example of a spoiled little brat ~


She turns much less abrasive and stuck up as the anime and series went on, but that is actually why I criticize her in the first place, due to the fact she seems too well made for this purpose by the creator himself, while having Yozora go overboard with the angst, before giving us a reason to care for her despite said abrasive behavior.

Though yes, I am bothered by this too in other media. Lucy from Elfen Lied is a monster, as most of the dicloni are. End of story. Looks aren't everything, and the very idea of trying to place sympathy on such people, without or instead of a hint of a deeper understanding, is bollocks.
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Takuzaki wrote:


I read the Novels, watched the anime and currently reading the manga. When was Sena ever a good person? She's the perfect example of a spoiled little brat ~


None of the Neighbors Club members, other than probably Yukimura are really portrayed as perfectly good.

Like I said, Sena certainly puts up a haughty facade fairly often, but it seems to be a mask for her insecurity. The novels aren't available in English online anymore, but I have seen a passage that made her seem as hateful as Yozora, but that wasn't portrayed in the anime.

There are certainly times though when it seems she is trying to be friendly with the Yozora. She seemed genuinely upset when Rikka and Yozora left the pool. She was the one who suggested they all use her family's beach house. She wrongly trusted Yozora to rub sun tan lotion on her back. She allowed Rikka and Yozora to mess with her hair. That seemed to be partly a way to bond with them. After Yozora read her fortune, she said she had a new respect for Yozora. Sena allowed the entire club to use her ticket to go to the amusement park and even paid for Maria's ticket since she wasn't eligible for the free ticket.

If she really felt that the rest of the Neighbors Club was beneath her, I doubt she would be hanging out with them.



PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I am talking about the real life fan base. People who prefer Sena make up a good majority of the viewerswith Rika and Yozora being in second place.My hatred mainly stems from how in the later volumes and episodes she seems to be a "creator's pet", going to be so kind as to feel hurt and dejected when Yozora vehemently declares her hatred her. Wait, what? Yozora has always been an ass to you, why would feel bad to be rejected? This goes beyond being a decent, well meaning person into sainthood.

Isn't this what the thread would be discussing?



No, I wasn't trying to express why viewers should like her character.

Honestly, none of the characters in Haganai are especially likable. I kind of figured that was the point. A sort of Japanese Breakfast Club.

As for why Sena feels hurt when Yozora openly declares her hatred, I haven't gotten to that part yet, but Sena is obviously socially awkward and doesn't know how to read situations. She think's she's perfect and can't see why anyone would hate her, even if they do things which indicate that they do hate her. When it is spelled out for her to understand, maybe that is when their hatred hits home. The anime to this point makes it seem like Sena has some sort of romantic feelings for Yozora as well, a final outright rejection may have been the final straw. Sena seems to have been raised in a sheltered life style, even her dad seems to be socially awkward.




PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Looks aren't everything, and the very idea of trying to place sympathy on such people, without or instead of a hint of a deeper understanding, is bollocks.


Is that what you think I am doing? Disagree with my take on the situation if you'd like, but please don't accuse me of judging Sena based on her looks, nor failing to explain my understanding of why she acts as she does.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17

HOOfan_1 wrote:


Takuzaki wrote:


I read the Novels, watched the anime and currently reading the manga. When was Sena ever a good person? She's the perfect example of a spoiled little brat ~


None of the Neighbors Club members, other than probably Yukimura are really portrayed as perfectly good.

Like I said, Sena certainly puts up a haughty facade fairly often, but it seems to be a mask for her insecurity. The novels aren't available in English online anymore, but I have seen a passage that made her seem as hateful as Yozora, but that wasn't portrayed in the anime.

There are certainly times though when it seems she is trying to be friendly with the Yozora. She seemed genuinely upset when Rikka and Yozora left the pool. She was the one who suggested they all use her family's beach house. She wrongly trusted Yozora to rub sun tan lotion on her back. She allowed Rikka and Yozora to mess with her hair. That seemed to be partly a way to bond with them. After Yozora read her fortune, she said she had a new respect for Yozora. Sena allowed the entire club to use her ticket to go to the amusement park and even paid for Maria's ticket since she wasn't eligible for the free ticket.

If she really felt that the rest of the Neighbors Club was beneath her, I doubt she would be hanging out with them.



PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I am talking about the real life fan base. People who prefer Sena make up a good majority of the viewerswith Rika and Yozora being in second place.My hatred mainly stems from how in the later volumes and episodes she seems to be a "creator's pet", going to be so kind as to feel hurt and dejected when Yozora vehemently declares her hatred her. Wait, what? Yozora has always been an ass to you, why would feel bad to be rejected? This goes beyond being a decent, well meaning person into sainthood.

Isn't this what the thread would be discussing?



No, I wasn't trying to express why viewers should like her character.

Honestly, none of the characters in Haganai are especially likable. I kind of figured that was the point. A sort of Japanese Breakfast Club.

As for why Sena feels hurt when Yozora openly declares her hatred, I haven't gotten to that part yet, but Sena is obviously socially awkward and doesn't know how to read situations. She think's she's perfect and can't see why anyone would hate her, even if they do things which indicate that they do hate her. When it is spelled out for her to understand, maybe that is when their hatred hits home. The anime to this point makes it seem like Sena has some sort of romantic feelings for Yozora as well, a final outright rejection may have been the final straw. Sena seems to have been raised in a sheltered life style, even her dad seems to be socially awkward.




PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Looks aren't everything, and the very idea of trying to place sympathy on such people, without or instead of a hint of a deeper understanding, is bollocks.


Is that what you think I am doing? Disagree with my take on the situation if you'd like, but please don't accuse me of judging Sena based on her looks, nor failing to explain my understanding of why she acts as she does.


I was trying to sympathize with his point of view in general. I wasn't agreeing with his application to you, but I merely do try to offer a hand of understanding when I deem it appropriate. I am sorry if I offended you. That wasn't my intent.

Sena just becomes overwhelmingly flawless as the series goes on. While Yozora gets infinitely worst, Sena gets so much better that it is saccharine, since the author tries to pair them up incredibly early with a declaration. They both changed from the characters they were both initially, and the debate of who is better becomes one sided, since Sena has little in terms of pressing issues like Yozora does (And boy, does she have a great deal), and her main issue come season 2 is her lack of common sense, but nothing else comes to mind. Yozora would overshadow her anyway.

In any case, Rika is also more well adjusted than Yozora is (As her character goes a complete 180 to being the voice of reason)

Edit: Not sure how you were confused, I specifically said this in replies to media other than Haganai, which does get a pass from me due to Sena being an okay gal, essentially.

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PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Edit: Not sure how you were confused, I specifically said this in replies to media other than Haganai, which does get a pass from me due to Sena being an okay gal, essentially.



I guess I misread it as applying to both situations

I agree with you, it's poorly written, but I find many Light Novels (source of this anime and many others) to be poorly written.

As I said earlier, I can't find a valid explanation for Yozora to act the way she acts. It almost seems as if her lost childhood friendship with Kodaka is set up as her defining moment, but that is utterly weak. Perhaps more is explained in the Light Novels or Manga.

I pointed out a similar unconvincing plot point in Nisekoi. Chitoge's mother was a powerful head of business who only spent 1 night a year with her family. The show built her up to seem uncaring, but when she canceled an important meeting to spend 2 hours with her daughter, only to jet off again, it was supposed to represent a redemption of her character. To me, nothing short of making sure she could spend the majority of the year with her family would have been a redemption for the character. Perhaps that represents an ideal person to the Japanese. I even saw English viewers hailing her as a "bad ass". I saw her as nothing more than a terrible person.

Yozora's entire motivation seems to be to get together with Kodaka. She formed the Neighbors Club and invited him. She created very cryptic posters advertising the Neighbors Club, and seemed upset when people actually found the hidden meaning and began joining. She didn't want Sena to join. She debased Yukimura by making her wear a maid's outfit when she though she was a boy, and upon learning she was a girl tried to mask her appeal for Kodaka by suggesting she dress as a butler. When Rika pointed out sexy female butlers were all the rage, Yozora lamented her mistake. However, very little she does lends her the slightest hint of being a sympathetic character.

I have honestly been hoping some sort of revelation lends redemption to Yozora, instead of the story making her a stereotypical foil.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17
I don't like incest shows like haganai. Anyways, I thought this show was bland and pretty boring. Sena's character was so basic.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17

Gafennec wrote:

The only one I never cared for much was the foul-mouthed Rikka.

She was my favorite, especially by the end of the second series. It probably doesn't hurt that I've never been bothered by "perverted" girls or women, be it in anime or real life.

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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17

TheAncientOne wrote:


Gafennec wrote:

The only one I never cared for much was the foul-mouthed Rikka.

She was my favorite, especially by the end of the second series. It probably doesn't hurt that I've never been bothered by "perverted" girls or women, be it in anime or real life.



I didn't mind the perversion as much as the mouth. I guess it must be a Southern thing. :)
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
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