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Post Reply 51 GOP Senators Just Voted To Cut More Than $1 Trillion from Medicare and Medicaid To Give Super-Rich and Corporations a
mxdan 
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27 / M / A Husk.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
... Tax cut. (Title cut off)

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/10/19/51-gop-senators-just-voted-cut-15-trillion-medicare-and-medicaid-give-super-rich-and

Found this post on Reddit today. What do you guys think? I'm interested in the arguments defending this idea. I mean, laissez faire is part of the reason we got into the crash in the first place. It seems to me that recklessly putting more money in the hands of the rich has now been proven several times over to have a negative impact on the larger base... At least in an economy where resources are increasingly finite. The fact remains that the rich don't need this. The poor and injured do.
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32 / M / Alhambra, CA
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
First of all, Reddit. I would not be surprised things would get twisted there. Received a lot of downvotes there on a single response for being on the other side of aisle.

Second, do people actually read the details of the document or just relies on the media outlets interpreting those contents?
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20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
It's about time someone finally thought about the poor oppressed upper class

/s
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31 / M / Modesto, CA
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Posted 10/20/17
As someone who needs medicare for a 16000 dollar infusion every eight weeks, this is bull. So sick of them doing this. The gov't already owes Social Security 3 trillion dollars.
bhl88 
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30 / M / USA
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
Trumpsters: We don't care, he's destroying that socialist nonsense we definitely do not use (yeah we use it so what) #maga
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25 / M
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
“I’m not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.” -Trump

"We have to make the U.S.A. RICH again so that we can afford to pay Social Security, Medicare,and Medicaid and STRONG to keep our enemies out" - Trump

"I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. Huckabee copied me." -Also Trump

"Huckabee is a nice guy but will never be able to bring in the funds so as not to cut Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. I will." -Still Trump

"The Republicans who want to cut SS & Medicaid are wrong. A robust economy will Make America Great Again! " -Guess who?

"I am going to save Medicare and Medicaid, Carson wants to abolish, and failing candidate Gov. John Kasich doesn't have a clue - weak!" -You guessed it. Trump.

#Winning
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57 / M
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/20/17
All they actually did was to allow the republicans to try to change the tax code. They have a grand experiment that giving money to the rich will trickle down and jumpstart the economy. If and when it fails, they will have gotten their moeny and they can say "oh well we tried"

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33 / M / Pensacola
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
Dear people. did you know the upperclass pay 90 percent of the taxes in this country. These are also the people that have the businesses that employ [people]. if their taxes get cut, then they have more money to build and hire more folks. Trump's tax plan would be a huge benefit in this country.
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107 / O
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Posted 10/20/17
Facts to back up your claim?
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25 / M
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17

ironh19 wrote:

Dear stupid people. did you know the upperclass pay 90 percent of the taxes in this country. These are also the people that have the businesses that employ your liberal asses. if their taxes get cut, then they have more money to build and hire more folks. Trumps tax plan would be a huge benefit in this country. but none of you would know that with your gender studies degree.


Except raw capital isn't the primary driver of production. A company will sell goods in a way which makes them money (typically, but thats beside the point). So what is preventing Scrub-o-shine from putting six billion scrub brushes on the market? Wouldn't they be rich if they just pumped out more brushes? Well no. Demand is the limiting factor. If you put more money into the pockets of the rich, the poor don't start miraculously buying more, and rich people are horribly inefficient at spending money (the rich tend to invest or save or spend money in ways which don't really help the economy like vacationing in France). If you give 1000 poor people 100 dollars, they may each buy one scrub brush. If you give one rich person 100000 dollars, they may buy two scrub brushes. Which is better at driving demand? Now, do you really think that if there are millions of people demanding goods, there will be no one to fill that need if we don't give the rich more money?

Helping those at the very top will do little to help the country because capital is not the limiting factor. However, for small businesses, lowering taxes can help growth and innovation (and small businesses typically funnel money into the US economy, not the global economy) and lowering taxes on the lower and middle classes can drive demand (which drives supply and pumps capital into the system).

That means not cutting Medicare and Medicaid and programs which help the poor and that means not cutting things like the estate tax or lowering the top tax brackets. Unfortunately, even the small business tax cuts that Trump is bragging about (setting a tax cap at 25%) only helps the richest of small businesses who don't really need it. 87% of households with business income already fall below that cap (and when you limit that to households that get most of their income from flow-through businesses, that number only moves to 83%).

While economics is a balance between supply and demand, we have a demand-side crisis on our hands. This is not the time to be bolstering supply. Without seriously addressing the huge issue building on the demand-side from massive income inequality, it doesn't matter how many goods are on the market. No one will be buying them.
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☆Land of sweets☆
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17
i can't seem to find in the actual document in regards to the supposed decrease in medicare and medicaid budget by over 1 trillion.
from what i've found:

the budget for medicare in 2017 was $600,857,000,000. (a little over 600.8 billion)
while the budget for medicare in 2018 is to be $593,830,000,000. (a little over 593.8 billion)
- a budget decrease of around 7 billion

btw, the budget for medicare on fiscal year 2015 was $519,196,000,000. (a little over 519.1 billion)
(and at that time, the budget for medicare in 2018 was expected to be $590,695,000,000. surprisingly close to the proposed budget)

sources that people probably won't read but i'll post anyway:
fiscal year 2015
fiscal year 2017
fiscal year 2018

actual sources in regard to 1 trillion in medicare/medicaid cuts would be appreciated. given how people feel strongly about this, i'm sure it won't take long for someone to give me a source that's not a news report!

edit: the new budget for medicare for 2018 has been changed to $586,239,000,000. (a little over 586.2 billion)
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31 / M / Washington State
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Posted 10/20/17
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25 / M / Texas
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Posted 10/20/17
What did you expect, it's how he government operates. Be it democrats, republicans, or something imbetween they always find away to screw people over.
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57 / M
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Posted 10/20/17 , edited 10/21/17

ironh19 wrote:

Dear people. did you know the upperclass pay 90 percent of the taxes in this country. These are also the people that have the businesses that employ [people]. if their taxes get cut, then they have more money to build and hire more folks. Trump's tax plan would be a huge benefit in this country.


I remember Reaganomics and all the other nonsense. No - giving money to the super wealthy did NOT build more factories and hire more folk.
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35 / M
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Posted 10/21/17 , edited 10/21/17
I'm never going to forget a interview with one of Reagan's puppet masters a supply side economist. He looked like he had not slept in 3 days. This was 3 months after the big crash. Bush was still in office but Obama has won and it was that window between presidents. He said "We were wrong trickle down doesn't work" shifting blame he then said "what happen is supply side economics would work if your intention is economic growth. Yet we have a group who took it, and used it to enrich the upper class. The math of supply side does not work with a upper tax rate bellow 50%. Anything bellow that line shows no economic results the math just doesn't work". I've never been able to find that clip I've always wanted it, But that moment stuck with me.

The Right wing knows trickle down is a fraud they just don't care. It's become faith based economics The 50 year of evidence doesn't matter , Kansas last year 2016 doesn't matter. Because it's not about economic growth never has been. It has always even during Nixon been about creating a funnel to send as much wealth as possible to the top.

Yet it should of obvious from the start. Jobs aren't made because of taxes never have been never will be. They are only ever created because of demand. Their can be no demand when 90% of the country can't afford to buy. Why credit holds so much power now because it's a chance to buy when you can't afford. Yet even credits limits have run their course. The only way to bring back jobs is to tax the top again , eliminate tax havens. and remove the loopholes crafted to let corporations be rewarded for outsourcing and firing US people. Using the money to rebuild infrastucture, fund adult education programs, and build big again. National public high speed rail, A national fiber network, createing a public healthcare system. Defence spending is fine but it does not spread out like a high speed rail system would.
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