First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
Post Reply Boy jumps off bridge, kills woman instead
-OlE- 
1573 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Nebraska
Online
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

djason1988 wrote:


You missed the part where I said he belongs in a psych ward, not a prison. There needs to be consequences for his actions, but at the same time I recognize that he is hurting.


fair point, although i think saying you wouldn't want to throw him in prison is a pretty low bar to clear on the empathy scale
Idk what would be best for the kid in this case, but i think it is obvious he needs help he is obviously troubled
mxdan 
11925 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / A Husk.
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

djason1988 wrote:


mxdan wrote:Punishment is only effective when the punishee understands the reasons for it. Even then it's not really all that effective. The people involved usually repeat again by and large. All it does is offer condolences to the harmed. But there is little joy in that when the person involved doesn't understand and remedy what it is that caused them to harm someone else.


Lol. Punishment isn't effective? So a person's actions shouldn't have consequences? Not totally sure what you're going for here.


I think I've made it fairly clear. A person's actions always have consequences. I'm not making claims that say everyone just do what they want. I'm saying that holding a prepubescent child to legal consequence is more often then not, a pointless pursuit for anyone but the party harmed.

Secondly, I'd like to make it clear that our jailing system is inherently flawed, and there is data to back that up. The majority of offenders who serve sentencing are back in the system before a years time. Now, of course there are a wide range of people included in those numbers, but it's worth mentioning for the point I'm trying to make -- Putting people away is a temporary and costly solution to a much bigger issue, Public psychological health.

Again, I'm not saying that a system to keep the dangerous away from the population isn't necessary. Of course it is. Where I divulge from the bulk of you is the pure size in which it's replied upon and the idea that it should be used over the obvious and more logical remedy, figuring out why people do the things they do and getting them the help they need to succeed. In this specific case (A prepubescent child) I more stringently believe that the blame to be put on him is minimal at best because he doesn't have the framework yet to make accurate and well informed decisions. In this case, how he kills himself, which I'm willing to bet was more or less a moment of emotion rather than a fully thought out and decided upon premeditation that was weighted amongst the consequences of him falling off that bridge.


On topic though, whether or not it was intentional, this kid directly caused the death of another innocent person. And as somebody who works with kids, a 12 year old is fully capable of realizing that jumping into a busy freeway could cause an accident.

Again, brain development research doesn't fall in line with your claims. They may even claim they understand the result but the fully grasped consequence both for themselves and the people around them are usually not in line with your preconceived notions.

How many teens that have attempted suicide go on in their adult life to being glad that they didn't do it? The vast majority of them. They realize once their brains mature that there binary way of grasping the full complexity of the time period was very small and on a reactionary basis. This is the true difference between and adult brain and a child's brain. Claiming that they are under the same confines is purely false and demonstrably false with modern technology.


They knew, they just didn't care. I'm not a lawyer, but pretty sure that goes under manslaughter or negligent homicide. Realistically speaking however, they probably belong in a psych ward, not a prison.

As a side note, for all the apologists, suicide is about the most selfish thing a person can do. The people who don't like you won't care that you're gone, so the only thing you're doing is hurting the people who actually do care.


Apologist, the buzz word used to dismiss the complexity of a situation. I don't apologize for their actions, I just understand them better, there is a big difference. Of course taking your life is selfish action.

Do you honestly believe children understand that?
-OlE- 
1573 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Nebraska
Online
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

karatecowboy wrote:

The fear of Hell kept me from it when I was in my rougher years, and I grew up in a shame-based environment.



damn dude that's just sad. the growing up in a shame based environment part, not the not killing yourself part lol. I grew up in what i would guess is a somewhat similar environment (different denomination in Christianity) and i have had my own struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts. (obviously) i am still alive, but fear of hell wasn't what kept me here personally. i found my own reasons to stay alive and keep going. Regardless of my personal thoughts on the matter, i am truly glad that you found your reasons too.

for some people maybe fear of hell may keep them from committing suicide, personally i think addressing the root causes of their depression would be far more effective than simply fear mongering to them. that being said, if it keeps some people from committing suicide, well i wholeheartedly admit in those cases it is a good thing.
11813 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M / People's Republic...
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

-OlE- wrote:


karatecowboy wrote:

The fear of Hell kept me from it when I was in my rougher years, and I grew up in a shame-based environment.



**** dude that's just sad. the growing up in a shame based environment part, not the not killing yourself part lol. I grew up in what i would guess is a somewhat similar environment (different denomination in Christianity) and i have had my own struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts. (obviously) i am still alive, but fear of hell wasn't what kept me here personally. i found my own reasons to stay alive and keep going. Regardless of my personal thoughts on the matter, i am truly glad that you found your reasons too.

for some people maybe fear of hell may keep them from committing suicide, personally i think addressing the root causes of their depression would be far more effective than simply fear mongering to them. that being said, if it keeps some people from committing suicide, well i wholeheartedly admit in those cases it is a good thing.


That's pretty much my take on it. There's something better, but something is better than nothing. It makes sense from a pragmatic point of view. I actually am not convinced it's a mortal sin (remember my comments about being a liberal Catholic?) but I do believe it is a sin. At the time, though, I believed it was a mortal sin.
-OlE- 
1573 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Nebraska
Online
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

karatecowboy wrote:

That's pretty much my take on it. There's something better, but something is better than nothing. It makes sense from a pragmatic point of view. I actually am not convinced it's a mortal sin (remember my comments about being a liberal Catholic?) but I do believe it is a sin. At the time, though, I believed it was a mortal sin.


see in the denomination i grew up in the concept of mortal sin wasn't a thing. sin was sin. we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. honestly its kind of funny listening to your perspective (coming from a catholic perspective) because the christian high school i went to was somewhat anti-catholic. hell i had one teacher in middle school (it had a middle school as well not just high school) who was particularly anti-catholic, he would really go deep into these really weird rants about Catholicism. he was a complete nut job though. technically the school was supposed to be open to all denominations but we only had one catholic student my entire time there and she apparently got bullied enough that she left. it really threw me off religion to be honest. that and many other things of course. anyways sorry for the random thread derailing thought dump, back to your regularly scheduled broadcast
11813 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M / People's Republic...
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

-OlE- wrote:

see in the denomination i grew up in the concept of mortal sin wasn't a thing. sin was sin. we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. honestly its kind of funny listening to your perspective (coming from a catholic perspective) because the christian high school i went to was somewhat anti-catholic. hell i had one teacher in middle school (it had a middle school as well not just high school) who was particularly anti-catholic, he would really go deep into these really weird rants about Catholicism. he was a complete nut job though. technically the school was supposed to be open to all denominations but we only had one catholic student my entire time there and she apparently got bullied enough that she left. it really threw me off religion to be honest. that and many other things of course. anyways sorry for the random thread derailing thought dump, back to your regularly scheduled broadcast


I do not want to derail any more, so I will say that I appreciate you sharing your background on this. I attended Evangelical Covenant churches for a few years.

That said, always remember Hank Hill's words of wisdom:

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/14ccc845-6cb9-4fa4-b6d6-baab7a7e2eb6#HkuTnYU8A
30524 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Online
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17
Reading this thread made me lose faith in humanity. We have absolute monsters here. Some who should even seek help. We lack so much context for this tragedy.
17165 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17
It is tragic, and ironic all at the same time. She was going to one day help children with behavior issues. May she rest in peace.

But now I am curious how the courts will handle this case. If this were an adult, he/she would be charged with involuntary manslaughter without a doubt. But seeing how the kid is 12, this is going to spark some serious controversy.
5505 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
Bet the boys parents didn't buy him the IphoneX. If the boy lives, charge him. His actions caused another person their life.
310 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
The only thing that is clear to me upon reading this, is that we need to raise awareness on suicide methods that do not endanger others.
Preferably also better educate people on methods with no risk of survival.

Stop jumping in front of trains and other vehicles. Stop jumping from heights that may or may not kill you.
Just use a good old rope and hang yourself. Or slice your wrists, along the arm, not across.

If only people were better educated on how to kill themselves safely and quietly, such a tragedy could have been avoided.
mxdan 
11925 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / A Husk.
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17

X41822N wrote:

The only thing that is clear to me upon reading this, is that we need to raise awareness on suicide methods that do not endanger others.
Preferably also better educate people on methods with no risk of survival.

Stop jumping in front of trains and other vehicles. Stop jumping from heights that may or may not kill you.
Just use a good old rope and hang yourself. Or slice your wrists, along the arm, not across.

If only people were better educated on how to kill themselves safely and quietly, such a tragedy could have been avoided.






mow123 
14409 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 10/31/17
lol at all the dumb comments, this is merely an accident. Honestly you guys are just making it worse for the kid. Truth is you are basically telling the kid to try again by saying "justice should be served to him." It is truly sickening to see comments like "just don't get us involved in your suicide." Bet if the kid tries again after a few months the news won't even cover it. That is just how little people care. I mean if a deer falls off a bridge and kills somebody nobody cares at all. So why do you care so much about this? The truth is you don't. You just want to criticize the kid for doing something and making him feel like shit. Well guess what if he is jumping off of the bridge he probably already feels like shit. "oh he is still living we can still put him down. He would of been better off dead" is super messed up.

By teaching somebody how to kill yourself you are saying go kill yourself. Are people really that dumb? Like you would teach somebody you love how to kill themselves? whaaat? Oh that is right the kid is a stranger so you can say go kill yourself without any guilt. That is so messed up.

This was very tragic with two victims. I feel sad for both parties for sure.
33456 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
39 / Inside your compu...
Online
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17

amejia0 wrote:

Thinking about said consequences does not equal premeditation. Nor does the lack of such thought excuse him from having to deal with the consequences of his actions.



Nobody either said or hinted that, except you.




But he shouldn't get off scott free




Who said that before you did? No one.

11 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
I'm pretty sure as a 12 year old he didn't realize the impact his actions would've taken in the grand scheme of things (on others instead of himself). If the child is already suffering enough that they consider killing themselves, trying to "punish" them will either motivate them to take their own life still (fixing nothing), or make them want to lash out at life/others(make things worse). I understand that everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon when someone is at fault to give them a more-than-maximum-punishment, but looking beyond the crime/tragedy is the only real way to fix a problem like this.

If I were to die, or even someone I loved, in this circumstance....I really couldn't ask for them to have punishment. I would rather try to get them to find emotional help.

Hate begets hate. Anger begets anger. Malice begets malice. If you see someone is suffering you should try to comfort and console them, not lash out.

Love is a difficult thing to wield, especially in trying times, but it can save lives and inspire greatness. That's all I have to say on this tragedy. I hope for the best for everyone involved.
xxJing 
41832 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M / Duckburg
Offline
Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
There is no good way to go about this.

You are condemning someone who has already condemned themselves. This kid, for whatever reason, did not want to live anymore. At most he was probably only thinking that he wanted someone to notice that he did die, that's why he decided to try to kill himself in the way that he did.

He lived and someone else died. It's another unfortunate outcome.

However there aren't really any options that everyone can be happy with.

1) You incarcerate him: This probably leads to him committing suicide in prison.
2) You get him mental help, and then incarcerate him; He will probably try to commit suicide out of guilt.
3) You get him mental help, and then allow him a chance at redemption; You people are blood thirsty, so this won't sit well with you.
4) You restrain him so that he can't commit suicide, and torture him; I hope I don't have to say why this is wrong as a form of punishment.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.