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Post Reply Microtransactions -- Enough is Enough ?
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Posted 11/27/17 , edited 11/27/17

CostlyAxis wrote:
Not saying Bungie intended the XP to always work like this, but the average player is well within reason to expect that if a graphical display tells them something then that is what should happen. It'd be like a Pokemon game saying a move was "Super Effective", but really only does 1.5x behind the scenes. I'd say the issue here is with how fast they "corrected" it to match with the only visual indication the player receives. Scaling the XP earned when repeating something is fine, but it's unlikely they didn't know their visual display didn't match. This isn't even mentioning it has implications with their mico-transaction system.


I wasn't exactly putting the onus of the misunderstanding onto the players but that Bungie simply didn't disclose the information from the get-go.
Most players purchase Fireteam Medallions for their loot percentage increase (more likely to get exotic or legendary item), not their XP increase.
Loosely, you could say that it has implications into their microtransaction system but it depends on why you're buying the medallions to begin with.
I wouldn't say that Bungie didn't know that the visual display didn't match what their system was displaying, more so that it should have been explained thoroughly (regardless of the reasoning behind it).


CostlyAxis wrote:
On your note of PC gamers, I would like to for one mention I do not fit into the category you mentioned (and I have the monetary means). I'll buy DLC for games I enjoy, and I've always been like that back to when Oblivion released DLC. The only reason I have the Horse Armor one is because it's bundled and I have no way to drop it. Otherwise, I'd have never "bought" it.

However, as I said before, I have no issue with micro-transactions: just tell me upfront what exactly I'm getting and all is good. Give me a random tier-based loot system and you'll get no sale from the likes of me.


There are always going to be "exceptions to the rule".
The data shows that the majority of gamers are more than happy to throw down money for additional content; whether it be loot boxes or DLC.
Gamers like to say that "games are being shipped incomplete" even though the games themselves are often completed and DLC is just additional sidequests to provide more content to the gamer/end-user.
Battlefront 2 is no exception to this; as the ending isn't "completed" (it left on a massive cliffhanger) and EA was upfront that the full conclusion would be in the free content that will be provided at a later date.


CostlyAxis wrote:
Anecdotal evidence aside, I think it's more the "minority" that make the loot box system work in terms of profit. They're just now pushing it into the mainstream and integrating it with flashier reveals and more in-depth attachment to the "experience" of the games. You can't say people aren't aware of it in games like Overwatch, but only because it has been made a forefront "feature" of the game.

Sure, I'm biased because my friends are practically all people who play video games, but when people I work who have never touched a video game more modern than Tetris even know about the Battlefront 2 controversy, I don't think it's the minority anymore.


I would have to disagree as the numbers/data show otherwise.
The vast majority of gamers are more than happy to drop money on Season Passes, Microtransactions, and the likes.
It's the minority that has issues with these things by default.
Nobody likes games where you have to "Pay to Win" or "Pay to Finish" (complete the storyline itself).
But nobody would bat an eye at $0.99 to change something that's cosmetic.

The whole thing with Battlefront II became more mainstream due to multiple news agencies publishing articles around it.
That's the only reason that the gamers "won" this battle against them (even though, I'm going to say it's short-lived).
The few non-gamer friends (including my girlfriend's parents) wanted to discuss it.
I ended up showing them Battlefront II while they were over for Thanksgiving, most of them had nothing but good to say about it (mostly because they're surprised by the graphics looking "almost like the movies" - keep in mind these are late 60's/early 70 year olds...lol).
When explaining the microtransactions that were available, nobody thought it was gambling and felt that "kids were complaining too much about it".
I further explained that the vast majority of those complaining are within my age range (25-35), they were confused as to why adults would make such a big deal about something so minute.
It's anecdotal and silly, as most of these people barely understand gaming to begin with - they just see "more money for the businesses" which they're okay with by default ("you don't have to buy anything from them, you choose to.. right?" was the final view they presented).

Really what it comes down to is that gamers are continuously unaware as to what they want or what they expect.
There are those who think that games aren't expensive to make and that $60 should warrant the base game and any additional content developed for the game.
That simply isn't how the world works, no matter what industry you're in.
Why do you think there's only a year for manufacturer's warranties?
Why are there so many "post-purchase warranty" companies like SquareTrade in the world?
It's profitable because people know that they can spend an additional $20-100 to ensure that their purchase is insured for another few years outside of the manufacturer's warranty.
DLC isn't much different than "insuring your phone as the latest updates" - except that there's no middle man preventing you from getting said updates, other than a paywall.
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Posted 11/27/17 , edited 11/27/17

Cydoemus wrote:

The problem is that as long as it's profitable there will be companies who try to use that method of gaining profits.
Battlefront 2's loot boxes were just barely tied to progression; most articles even explain this other than the fact that you may get Heroes sooner than usual.
The progression system in Battlefront 2 is time consuming, with or without loot boxes.
It's tedious and somewhat obnoxious but the game itself is still good (getting to Rank 50 was the crux of my life for about 40 hours).

Unfortunately, this is very unlikely to happen in the gaming realm.
For the longest while, mobile operating systems did not have "parental controls" regarding in-app purchases (this includes Amazon's custom ROM of Android).
Windows 10, Playstation 3/4, and Xbox 360/One all have parental controls that require you to authorize an account to be able to purchase things from their respective stores.
This means that the onus is on the parent to ensure that they have parental controls preventing their child from purchasing "in-game currency" or items.
After that whole Amazon fiasco, they made sure that their Android ROM has parental controls (https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201729930).

The FTC ruling was for events that took place prior to them implementing this feature into their "Fire OS" (Android ROM).
In situations where there are pre-existing systems with parental controls, it is entirely up to the parent to ensure that the console or PC prevents such purchases.


You bought battlefront 2 after they disabled the lootboxes? Nonetheless, the game made this list.

Top 10 Most Disappointing Games of 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6A4rz3G2iU

I was looking through the description of Titanfall 2 yesterday after they gave me the wrong version. There are plenty of people like these out there. Parents who will buy games for their kids without knowing anything about those games. I got a call from a father wanting to dispute the charges made by his son through some game on his iphone.. $3-$5 charges that added up to $1000+ .

This is why there are gamers who are demanding sony/micorsoft/nintendo to have a verification step every time you are buying something in game. Like requiring a password before every purchase. Sony like to disable a user's account if they dispute a charge . It's another thing that i think will end badly for them. It will take years and a lot victims to have a class action lawsuit.



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Posted 11/27/17 , edited 11/27/17

dulun18 wrote:
You bought battlefront 2 after they disabled the lootboxes? Nonetheless, the game made this list.


No, I bought it on release date.
I got the platinum last Monday (a week ago).
I bought $300 worth of crystals after people started kicking up fuss about microtransactions.
They never took the crystals away, so I ended up using them sparingly until I got the platinum (then went full throttle and spent them all).
I actually like the game.
The progression system (with or without loot boxes) is slow as fuck and it takes a lot of games to get to Rank 50.
It was one of the easier platinums I've got in the last year.



dulun18 wrote:
I was looking through the description of Titanfall 2 yesterday after they gave me the wrong version. There are plenty of people like these out there. Parents who will buy games for their kids without knowing anything about those games. I got a call from a father wanting to dispute the charges made by his son through some game on his iphone.. $3-$5 charges that added up to $1000+ .

This is why there are gamers who are demanding sony/micorsoft/nintendo to have a verification step every time you are buying something in game. Like requiring a password before every purchase. Sony like to disable a user's account if they dispute a charge . It's another thing that i think will end badly for them. It will take years and a lot victims to have a class action lawsuit.


Even so, the onus of responsibility falls onto the parent to know what they're getting their child into.
Sony and Microsoft have two-factor authentication for their login processes - the onus of responsibility falls onto the user.
I have two factor login enabled for both devices and you can't purchase anything without me getting two emails and a text message with a code telling me that someone is trying to log into my account.
Nintendo requires you input either your account password to purchase something using Paypal (Switch) or input your Credit Card information again to purchase something using a CC.
The systems are in place.

It's just that parents and gamers, themselves, who simply aren't using those systems.
I can't tell you how many people I see on r/Playstation complaining about being hacked but never enabling two-factor authentication.
Why? Because, even though it's one of the pinned threads, people are still silly and won't use systems that makes their lives "more difficult".
They'd rather put the responsibility of security onto the company and take no preventative measures themselves.
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Posted 11/27/17 , edited 11/28/17

Cydoemus wrote:


dulun18 wrote:
You bought battlefront 2 after they disabled the lootboxes? Nonetheless, the game made this list.


No, I bought it on release date.
.


they removed the microtransactions a few hours before launch so that's probably why.... there were players who played the game via beta or early access..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/11/16/ea-has-removed-star-wars-battlefront-2s-microstransactions-hours-before-launch/
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Posted 11/28/17 , edited 11/28/17
Iam not going to go too deep into my opinion of loot boxes but i did boycott Battlefront 2 over it.
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Posted 11/28/17 , edited 11/28/17

Cydoemus wrote:


dulun18 wrote:
It's always something new with these companies


Bungie actually explained this and fixed it by taking out the modifier.
They weren’t really “caught lying” - they were just caught with an underlying system that was not explicitly explained.
They should have explained that the amount of XP gained would decrease based on how long you play but the opposite was implied (that XP remains the same throughout).

The irony is that, despite gamers complaining about micro transactions and additional purchases post-purchase of the retail game ... additional content and micro transactions actually sell.



more news about Bungie and Destiny 2.



https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/310476/Bungie_drops_hidden_Destiny_2_XP_scaling_following_player_outcry.php






The British Gambling commission is voicing in.. French as well. etc.. I guess 2017 is the breaking point of microtransactions.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/310446/British_Gambling_Commission_worried_about_potential_risk_of_loot_boxes.php


I think the representatives from Hawaii have a personal vendetta againt EA?
www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/esrb-asked-to-address-battlefront-ii-loot-via-ratings-w512718




some of the users' comments from these articles



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Posted 11/30/17 , edited 12/1/17
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Posted 12/1/17 , edited 12/1/17
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Posted 12/1/17 , edited 12/1/17

dulun18 wrote:
Take-Two president weighs in on loot boxes as 'not gambling'
You can see why....


So what you are trying to say is that the vast majority of profits are coming from microtransactions and that gamers are actually paying for them?
I have nothing but an expression of shock and awe on my face at this moment. (Not Really)

Like I said earlier: data and research shows that most gamers have little issue with microtransactions.
It's more so when someone like Electronic Arts finds out that there is a user base that has zero issue with gameplay being tied to microtransactions that it becomes an issue for the vocal minority.
Star Wars Battlefront II's microtransaction system is the accumulation of years of gamers engaging in EA's post-purchase revenue streams.
In fact, a lot of the loot crate system in BFII mimics that of their mobile game ("Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes").
Galaxy of Heroes has been making bank (it's EA's top-grossing mobile game for almost two years now) from its microtransactions.

From a business perspective, 10,000,000 players paying $10 a month is better than 10,000 players paying $100 a month.
Except, in regard to Galaxy of Heroes, it's closer to 1,000,000 people paying $200 a month (which negates the above).
They were expecting to use the same model in Battlefront II (it's almost identical, almost).
The issue is that gamers put up more of a protest when it's blatant and in-your-face (and not free to play, either).

Reality is that this can go one of two ways.
Either the gaming industry changes how it gets money at the post-purchase level or they simply ignore gamers that are pitching such a fit about microtransactions (they're outliers).
When it comes to Battlefront II, their issue was that it wasn't their own IP.
Star Wars is too well-known and easily recognizable to practically... anybody on the planet.
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/4/17

Cydoemus wrote:


dulun18 wrote:
Take-Two president weighs in on loot boxes as 'not gambling'
You can see why....


So what you are trying to say is that the vast majority of profits are coming from microtransactions and that gamers are actually paying for them?
I have nothing but an expression of shock and awe on my face at this moment. (Not Really)


That's not it..I saw the article but also remember reading something from the same company, which is why i posted it.

The people who came out and claiming it's "not gambling" side of the debate are often people who got money from these microtranscations, ESRB, ESA, EA, Take-Two, Analysts (who happened to own EA stocks), etc..

2017 is the breaking point of microtransactions. The last thing we want is government regulating video games.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/310859/State_Rep_Games_industry_must_selfregulate_loot_boxes_before_government_steps_in.php

from business perspective-- $3 billions is a lot of money. We will see if they will continue down this path. Freemium games are free from the get go so unless they want to follow the same model instead of charging $60+ for it.


users' comments from the links above







https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/4/16733416/star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-boxes-credit-rewards-increased

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Posted 12/5/17 , edited 12/5/17

dulun18 wrote:
That's not it..I saw the article but also remember reading something from the same company, which is why i posted it.

The people who came out and claiming it's "not gambling" side of the debate are often people who got money from these microtranscations, ESRB, ESA, EA, Take-Two, Analysts (who happened to own EA stocks), etc..

2017 is the breaking point of microtransactions. The last thing we want is government regulating video games.


Government will likely have to step in to make any severe changes.
Other than that, microtransactions will just exist in a "different form".
And it isn't microtransactions that are the guilty party here, but loot crates/boxes.
Post-purchase revenue will likely default back to DLC and minor content releases (costumes and cosmetic things).



dulun18 wrote:
from business perspective-- $3 billions is a lot of money. We will see if they will continue down this path. Freemium games are free from the get go so unless they want to follow the same model instead of charging $60+ for it.


Electronic Arts is rising again.
The thing about gamer outcry is that it's only temporary.
Their stock value is still higher than it was this time last year.

December 5, 2016: $76.17 per share
December 5, 2017: $100.55 per share (has not closed yet)



And the narrative has changed about Battlefront II, as most articles in the last 3-4 days have been focused on the updates (for better or worse) with Battlefront II.
Gone are the articles trying to analyze how BFII's loot boxes have manipulated the young and how we must fight against the man.
This is how the gaming industry continues on.
We've had similar outcries back when Jack Thompson was claiming that video games were causing the decline in morals in society.
Investors dropped companies when he would pitch how violence was "poisoning our children".
They would come back when the government just shrugged and ignored him.
Gamers were happy with this kind of reaction; just that now that the reaction is being turned against them with the loot crates.
Investors are going right back to EA because the outcry is over.
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Posted 12/8/17 , edited 12/8/17
it's getting better and better

The Most Amazing Moment From The Game Awards 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RixwOY8fckU&pbjreload=10


US lawmaker who called out Star Wars Battlefront 2 lays out plans for anti-loot box law
http://www.pcgamer.com/us-lawmaker-who-called-out-star-wars-battlefront-2-lays-out-plans-for-anti-loot-box-law/

A Way Out's director yells 'Fuck the Oscars' before delivering rant about EA and loot boxes at The Game Awards
http://www.pcgamer.com/a-way-outs-director-yells-fuck-the-oscars-before-delivering-rant-about-ea-and-loot-boxes-at-the-game-awards/


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Posted 12/9/17 , edited 12/9/17

AnimeAddictANN69 wrote:

it's getting better and better

The Most Amazing Moment From The Game Awards 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RixwOY8fckU&pbjreload=10





That is hilarious is the that guy drunk? He's the guy behind Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/brothers-a-tale-of-two-sons
Josef Rares became an icon in the gaming world overnight https://www.gamespot.com/articles/a-chat-with-the-game-awards-most-talked-about-man-/1100-6455510/

I guess this is why he told people to watch








as for microtransactions and battlefront 2 sale


https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/12/08/npd-shows-dismal-battlefront-2-sales-at-20-of-call-of-duty-wwii-sales/#488e06472b38
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-battlefront-2-update-has-increased-rewar/1100-6455353/


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Posted 12/11/17 , edited 12/11/17


I added "a way out" game to my to buy list even though i didn't even know about the game. This is an effective way of getting people to look you up and your games.. etc.. the least expensive way to advertise oneself or products now a day.. sticking it up to the empire!! .. i meant EA..


Top 10 Worst Things EA's Ever Done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RJ5L1kvcuE&pbjreload=10


as long the lootboxes are not linked heavily into progress then i guess some gamers will not care.
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Posted 12/11/17 , edited 12/12/17
look, if you don't want to support something, simply stop the cash flow... actions speak louder than words
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