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Post Reply Is being transgender a mental disorder?
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17
I've been wondering about this for a while now and I don't mean to offend anyone at all. I myself have always thought that it's a mental disorder. I was wondering what you guys have to say about it and if there are any notable sources you could tell me about on this discussion which could change my position on the matter. My personal beliefs are very far right since I'm a libertarian. I have nothing against trans people and I want them to live their lives as they see fit because no one but themselves would know what's best for them. Though I think it's a mental disorder I don't think I should govern their lives. So, I'm asking for you guys to try to sway my mind. Anything for either side would be appreciated!
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17
it will depend on who are you asked. Personally, I don't care what you do with your own body. I spent 2 weeks at Scottsdale healthcare osborn (Arizona) as an intern in the sex change building. The operation cost like 40-50K and will require 1 year of counseling and other things before the doctor will do the surgery for you.

It's been a while so i'm not sure the department is still there or not
https://www.honorhealth.com/locations/hospitals/scottsdale-osborn-medical-center

I had problem with names to begin with so being assigned to a place where patients who look like a man or a female with name of the opposite gender. I avoided using pronoun and just stick to their name instead. It was a close friend of mine who was assigned to that department but she was uncomfortable with it so i took her spot.

It was an educational experience for me. It was also the easiest 2 weeks since there was little to do. The patients there required little to no care after surgery.
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

dulun18 wrote:

it will depend on who are you ask

Well, give me your view on the matter. :)
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

zxchzch wrote:


dulun18 wrote:

it will depend on who are you ask

Well, give me your view on the matter. :)


post updated
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17
First off, let's take a look at the definition of the term "mental disorder":

"any of a broad range of medical conditions (such as major depression, schizophrenia, obsessive compulsive disorder, or panic disorder) that are marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, or emotions to impair normal psychological functioning and cause marked distress or disability and that are typically associated with a disruption in normal thinking, feeling, mood, behavior, interpersonal interactions, or daily functioning"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mental%20illness

The question that we need to answer now is: do transgender people feel distress because of their situation? Yes, they do. However, it is important to note that that feeling of mental anguish and distress can be alleviated by letting a person who suffers from gender dysphoria transition to the sex that they identify as. That means that while gender dysphoria can be classified as a mental disorder, transgender people usually feel very little gender dysphoria after they have transitioned. Although I do admit that a lot of factors play a role in that, especially social ones (how does the person's social environment react to the fact that they are transgender and other things).

Convincing transgender people that they should live as the sex they were born into (biologically) has been tried various times throughout history and it never worked properly. The best you can do by trying this is to break a person mentally. That is why instead of doing so, scientists have agreed that letting trans people transition is the best treatment that is currently available. While it is true that you cannot completely remove gender dysphoria, you do not have to do that in order to make sure that a person who is transgender lives a happy and fulfilling life. The tiny bit that remains serves as a remainder that being different always comes with a psychological burden that has to be carried throughout life, but that is certainly not something that is unique to being transgender.

Note: some transgender people do not experience gender dysphoria. I am unable to explain how that exactly works, though.

Some sources that elaborate further on what it means to be transgender:

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/
https://www.livescience.com/54949-transgender-definition.html
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

Nalaniel wrote:

First off, let's take a look at the definition of the term "mental disorder":

"any of a broad range of medical conditions (such as major depression, schizophrenia, obsessive compulsive disorder, or panic disorder) that are marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, or emotions to impair normal psychological functioning and cause marked distress or disability and that are typically associated with a disruption in normal thinking, feeling, mood, behavior, interpersonal interactions, or daily functioning"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mental%20illness

The question that we need to answer now is: do transgender people feel distress because of their situation? Yes, they do. However, it is important to note that that feeling of mental anguish and distress can be alleviated by letting a person who suffers from gender dysphoria transition to the sex that they identify as. That means that while gender dysphoria can be classified as a mental disorder, transgender people usually feel very little gender dysphoria after they have transitioned. Although I do admit that a lot of factors play a role in that, especially social ones (how does the person's social environment react to the fact that they are transgender and other things).

Convincing transgender people that they should live as the sex they were born into (biologically) has been tried various times throughout history and it never worked properly. The best you can do by trying this is to break a person mentally. That is why instead of doing so, scientists have agreed that letting trans people transition is the best treatment that is currently available.

Note: some transgender people do not experience gender dysphoria. I am unable to explain how that exactly works, though.

Some sources that elaborate further on what it means to be transgender:

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/
https://www.livescience.com/54949-transgender-definition.html

A YouTuber by name Blaire White who's trans said the same thing. I guess that's the right thing to do but I can't deal with anyone who says they don't identify as any gender I also won't be able to stand people who don't even try to look like the gender they want to correspond with. I guess yeah I can support it in that way but I do think some people don't have gender dysphoria but yeah the only way for them to feel more comfortable is to transition and if a day comes when there's a better way to help people who have gender dysphoria then transitioning is the way to go but I think people who know for a fact that they don' have gender dysphoria should live out their lives as they see fit as the gender they correspond with. (I will only call these people by their preferred pronouns only if they respect me and if they actually try to make themselves look like the gender they correspond with) Sorry if this reply is messy, I'm very sick atm and can't think straight.
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

zxchzch wrote:

A YouTuber by name Blaire White who's trans said the same thing. I guess that's the right thing to do but I can't deal with anyone who says they don't identify as any gender I also won't be able to stand people who don't even try to look like the gender they want to correspond with. I guess yeah I can support it in that way but I do think some people don't have gender dysphoria but yeah the only way for them to feel more comfortable is to transition and if a day comes when there's a better way to help people who have gender dysphoria then transitioning is the way to go but I think people who know for a fact that they don' have gender dysphoria should live out their lives as they see fit as the gender they correspond with. (I will only call these people by their preferred pronouns only if they respect me and if they actually try to make themselves look like the gender they correspond with) Sorry if this reply is messy, I'm very sick atm and can't think straight.


What is the reasoning behind the sentiment that you just expressed?
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

Nalaniel wrote:


zxchzch wrote:

A YouTuber by name Blaire White who's trans said the same thing. I guess that's the right thing to do but I can't deal with anyone who says they don't identify as any gender I also won't be able to stand people who don't even try to look like the gender they want to correspond with. I guess yeah I can support it in that way but I do think some people don't have gender dysphoria but yeah the only way for them to feel more comfortable is to transition and if a day comes when there's a better way to help people who have gender dysphoria then transitioning is the way to go but I think people who know for a fact that they don' have gender dysphoria should live out their lives as they see fit as the gender they correspond with. (I will only call these people by their preferred pronouns only if they respect me and if they actually try to make themselves look like the gender they correspond with) Sorry if this reply is messy, I'm very sick atm and can't think straight.


What is the reasoning behind the sentiment that you just expressed?


There's no point in saying you don't correspond with any gender. You're either one or the other. If they aren't going to try to look like the gender they say they are then what's the point in even saying you identify as that? If you look like the gender you say you are I will say the pronouns to your liking as in he/she. I have trans boy who goes to my school who puts in effort to like look a male even though he originally a girl. He is someone without a doubt someone I believe who doesn't have gender dysphoria.
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

zxchzch wrote:

There's no point in saying you don't correspond with any gender. You're either one or the other. If they aren't going to try to look like the gender they say they are then what's the point in even saying you identify as that? If you look like the gender you say you are I will say the pronouns to your liking as in he/she. I have trans boy who goes to my school who puts in effort to like look a male even though he originally a girl. He is someone without a doubt someone I believe who doesn't have gender dysphoria.


Why is there no point in saying such a thing? What if a person derives a sense of happiness from doing so? Is that not of any relevance here? The thing is, a transgender person is the gender that they identify as. Not physically, but the concept of gender identity is a deeply ingrained concept that develops independently from body and social mores. What is important to remember is that we do not think about it like that because most people's gender identity develops in accordance to their biological sex, but that does not mean that the two are linked.

So what that means is when a transgender person who looks male says that they are a woman, they do so because it is factually correct. Why they do not immediately present as the right gender is completely irrelevant. There are tons of different reasons for that (an unaccepting social environment, an unreadiness to do so just yet or maybe they would prefer to start hormone replacement therapy before attempting to look like the gender they identify as).
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

Nalaniel wrote:


zxchzch wrote:

There's no point in saying you don't correspond with any gender. You're either one or the other. If they aren't going to try to look like the gender they say they are then what's the point in even saying you identify as that? If you look like the gender you say you are I will say the pronouns to your liking as in he/she. I have trans boy who goes to my school who puts in effort to like look a male even though he originally a girl. He is someone without a doubt someone I believe who doesn't have gender dysphoria.


Why is there no point in saying such a thing? What if a person derives a sense of happiness from doing so? Is that not of any relevance here? The thing is, a transgender person is the gender that they identify as. Not physically, but the concept of gender identity is a deeply ingrained concept that develops independently from body and social mores. What is important to remember is that we do not think about it like that because most people's gender identity develops in accordance to their biological sex, but that does not mean that the two are linked.

So what that means is when a transgender person who looks male says that they are a woman, they do so because it is factually correct. Why they do not immediately present as the right gender is completely irrelevant. There are tons of different reasons for that (an unaccepting social environment, an unreadiness to do so just yet or maybe they would prefer to start hormone replacement therapy before attempting to look like the gender they identify as).

Alright, I've come to a conclusion. I will respect anyone pronouns even if it's a non-binary pronoun. If they want to be who they are then so be it. I have no right to judge someone for how they live their own life. I can't agree with policies that make it a hate crime for people to not call them by their preferred pronouns. I am a libertarian after all and say all types of speech besides a few that are condemned in the 1st amendment. Anyway, thanks for giving me more insight. I appreciate it. Sorry, if I made you mad. I'm a very non-political correct, anti-sjw, and anti-feminist (by that I mean third wave feminism) so yeah. Thanks though, I appreciate it!
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 1/1/18
Oh god not this again.

NO.
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17
in my opinion, for those legit cases of transgender then please consider it for awhile, there is the reverse sex change surgery, which isn't talked a lot about because people thought they'd be happy as another gender, come to find out they aren't happy with the other either. I don't consider it a mental illness, however I do consider it a mental illness when you're forcing/pushing the idea/agenda around. most five year olds, naturally, don't know about this, so, introducing it to such a young audience is just downright stupid. there are the few cases who face this naturally, but when the parents/society force something, it's either going to scare them, make them accept, and/or other options we are currently exploring. I don't think anyone can have the surgery until they are "adult" enough to understand the surgery, the consequences and the truths/facts. I'd imagine 16 to be a good age to begin to get trans surgery interested, but you shouldn't be allowed to have the surgery until you turn 18 and you pay for it, not someone else (government). just my opinion on the matter. I have nothing against these folks or anyone else who feels the need to hack on their bodies for tats, cosmetic surgery, etc, etc. it's your choice and be blessed you are able to do such a thing, some countries you don't have an option and can sometimes face fines, jail time and even death.
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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17

niotabunny wrote:

in my opinion, for those legit cases of transgender then please consider it for awhile, there is the reverse sex change surgery, which isn't talked a lot about because people thought they'd be happy as another gender, come to find out they aren't happy with the other either. I don't consider it a mental illness, however I do consider it a mental illness when you're forcing/pushing the idea/agenda around. most five year olds, naturally, don't know about this, so, introducing it to such a young audience is just downright stupid. there are the few cases who face this naturally, but when the parents/society force something, it's either going to scare them, make them accept, and/or other options we are currently exploring. I don't think anyone can have the surgery until they are "adult" enough to understand the surgery, the consequences and the truths/facts. I'd imagine 16 to be a good age to begin to get trans surgery interested, but you shouldn't be allowed to have the surgery until you turn 18 and you pay for it, not someone else (government). just my opinion on the matter. I have nothing against these folks or anyone else who feels the need to hack on their bodies for tats, cosmetic surgery, etc, etc. it's your choice and be blessed you are able to do such a thing, some countries you don't have an option and can sometimes face fines, jail time and even death.


Most Transgender people I know, and certainly myself, have known since their earliest memories that something was wrong. It's not a political agenda people are shoving down kids throats. Many know quite young or would know if exposed to the idea.

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Posted 12/2/17 , edited 12/2/17
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm

This is a study showing that gender identity is a fluid spectrum and gender identity in all individuals is always going to be a little different. So I'm gonna have to say no, it is not a mental disorder.
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Posted 12/2/17

octorockandroll wrote:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm

This is a study showing that gender identity is a fluid spectrum and gender identity in all individuals is always going to be a little different. So I'm gonna have to say no, it is not a mental disorder.


I agree with this study, but I don't think it's a spectrum but I completely agree that everyones gender identity is different. Thank you for the study.
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