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Posted 12/5/17 , edited 12/5/17

mittemeyer wrote:

Ah, in that case, thanks for clarifying. I presumed that you might think something like a "true self" is possible, when in fact, as you say, self-deception about our own motives is never far off for people. Interestingly, Nietzsche believed that we have no true selves, and that a certain hypocrisy is not simply likely, but necessary for a person to continue functioning. He thought this was due to forgetfulness, without which we would simply be paralyzed by our rationality. His answer was a kind of hyper-rationality that not merely acknowledged our failure to be consistent, but celebrated it, through a relentless honesty that could encompass all viewpoints, which he called perspectivism. He was honest in the sense of acknowledging what is true, regardless of something's place relative to personal preconceptions, and also in the sense of being honest about what we ourselves truly wanted. To the extant that the latter was something that came naturally to human beings, self-deception was simply a part of the never-ending process of self-creation that Nietzsche so valued. One might say a person's tendency to deceive oneself is sublated, in Nietzsche's thought, as part of his transvaluation of value.


I've only recently gotten into Nietzsche, so I didn't know about his perspectivism; thanks. And again, Nisemonogatari is about such things; really, everything Monogatari is about dealing with the conflicting parts of ourselves.


mittemeyer wrote:

Nietzsche also read George Eliot, and liked her, even though I don't remember how the criticism of her work had a role in his thought. George Eliot is known for engaging in extended philosophical rumination in her narration, and, in Middlemarch, she takes pains to describe people in terms of what they think and believe as part of her portraiture. George Eliot herself was extraordinarily well-read, and much influenced by Carlyle's philosophy of history. It is the historical vision in George Eliot's novels that almost takes a role in deflating her protagonists' ideals. People are contingent to the times they live in, and in George Eliot's novels are depicted as subject to those forces that compel them to abandon their youthful idealism.

I don't think I was the one who recommended Middlemarch to you, although as you can see, I'm something of a fan.


Then I shall absolutely have to read it, given all that.
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Posted 12/5/17 , edited 12/5/17

Madamspica wrote:

He's a pretty smart guy, its a shame hes on the wrong side.


How is he on the wrong side?
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Posted 12/5/17 , edited 12/5/17

LakeJucas wrote:

Liberals aren't leftists, guys.


Technically they are.
Posted 12/6/17 , edited 12/6/17

zxchzch wrote:


Madamspica wrote:

He's a pretty smart guy, its a shame hes on the wrong side.


How is he on the wrong side?


Ask him.
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Posted 12/9/17 , edited 12/10/17
I need to answer runec's very wrong claim that words should be taken at face value at some point, but for now I'll just clean this up:


LakeJucas wrote:
Liberals aren't leftists, guys.



zxchzch wrote:
Technically they are.


My guess is that both of you are wrong here - though it's possible LakeJucas was trying to say what I'm about to say:

Conservatives and libertarians sometimes call themselves classical liberals, referring to things like natural law and civil liberties - the stuff you'd see the American founders say, blended with free-market economics. To be a classical liberal, then, is to be on the right, though it's pretty far from traditionalism.

The people who call themselves liberals in the U.S. these days (and perhaps for a while; I don't know the evolution of the word in the 20th century) are actually little different from this: while they won't like natural law, and they tend to be skeptical of the individualistic perspective behind free-market economics, all that means is they set somewhat different limits on the economic and political calculations that must be done to keep society in balance. In particular, they very much value individual freedom but subject it slightly more to a large, utilitarian governing body, while the conservative does the same thing but lets markets and corporations be the utilitarian governing body. Having lived in America until this past year, I can't exactly say what European liberals are like. Supposedly they're actually on the left, while in the U.S. liberals are only kind of leftist. But as they still possess the same utilitarianism, along with other ideological leanings, I have to wonder what the real distinction is. It seems to me that it's only that they give their governments more managerial power over society, and that can easily be entirely independent of being leftist.

Another piece I've left out is rationalism: the idea that we can pin everything down into one set of objective, clear, and readily communicable ideas, that words have one, obvious meaning, and it's not fair to point out otherwise. These days liberals are just as rationalist as conservatives, which is evident in their constant appeals to science and data, among other things. Again, Vox exudes this kind of rationalism, but maybe nothing is more representative of it than FiveThirtyEight. And that kind of thing is what makes you not a leftist. If you want to be a leftist, you need to understand how things like rationalism, utilitarianism, and individualism are mechanisms for exerting power over society. Words don't just mean what it says in the dictionary, science isn't objective, and the individual is a construct. Data especially is deceptive, and is overvalued.

So yes, liberals aren't leftists. But that's because people don't know what being a leftist actually means.
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Posted 12/20/17 , edited 12/20/17
try asking Alexa who is Ben Shaprio and then others controversial figures

Amazon ALEXA - Ben Shapiro more Famous than Milo Yiannopoulos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqDfnLN2DCI
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Posted 12/20/17 , edited 12/20/17

dulun18 wrote:

try asking Alexa who is Ben Shaprio and then others controversial figures

Amazon ALEXA - Ben Shapiro more Famous than Milo Yiannopoulos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqDfnLN2DCI


As amusing as that video is, it appears that Alexa does, at least now, know who Milo is (she kept answering from my echo when I was playing that clip).

Or maybe she always knew and the video is edited in such a way as to mislead us.
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Posted 12/20/17 , edited 12/20/17
not to be mean or anything but why does this thread exists?
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Posted 12/20/17 , edited 12/20/17

dulun18 wrote:

try asking Alexa who is Ben Shaprio and then others controversial figures

Amazon ALEXA - Ben Shapiro more Famous than Milo Yiannopoulos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqDfnLN2DCI


What exactly would ALEXA say about Milo? What has he done? Write political pop culture? And sometimes he doesn't even write that .


In October 2017, leaked emails revealed that Yiannopoulos had repeatedly solicited neo-Nazi and white supremacist figures on the alt-right for feedback and story ideas in his work for Breitbart. The leaked emails also showed that his book and many of his Breitbart articles were ghost-written[7]


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Posted 12/20/17 , edited 12/21/17

b17bomber wrote:

not to be mean or anything but why does this thread exists?


I believe it exists because the OP was tired of seeing The Daily Donald thread and/or wanted to make fun of its existence.
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Posted 12/20/17 , edited 12/21/17

lorreen wrote:


b17bomber wrote:

not to be mean or anything but why does this thread exists?


I believe it exists because the OP was tired of seeing The Daily Donald thread and/or wanted to make fun of its existence.


Just like the Daily Hillary thread, oh wait. RIP.
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Posted 12/21/17 , edited 12/21/17

lorreen wrote:


dulun18 wrote:

try asking Alexa who is Ben Shaprio and then others controversial figures

Amazon ALEXA - Ben Shapiro more Famous than Milo Yiannopoulos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqDfnLN2DCI


As amusing as that video is, it appears that Alexa does, at least now, know who Milo is (she kept answering from my echo when I was playing that clip).

Or maybe she always knew and the video is edited in such a way as to mislead us.


like the AI lady from I, Robot (2004) movie ?


ask Alexa which source you got it from (after each answer) would be interesting to hear (if that is even an option).



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Posted 12/21/17 , edited 12/22/17
if anyone makes fun of Ben Shapiro, they're either an imbecile or making a bad joke.

Shapiro is one of, if not THE sharpest political analyst in the world. I dare you to name person who has a stronger presence.
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Posted 12/21/17 , edited 12/22/17
I like Ben. Don't agree with him 100% on some issues (98.9% more often than not). Sharp mind, articulate speaker....
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Posted 12/21/17 , edited 12/22/17

koakoakoakoakoakoakoakoakoa wrote:

if anyone makes fun of Ben Shapiro, they're either an imbecile or making a bad joke.

Shapiro is one of, if not THE sharpest political analyst in the world. I dare you to name person who has a stronger presence.



Uh, John Aldrich, Robert Axelrod, Steven Brams, Michael W. Doyle, Theda Skocpol... I could go on.
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