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Post Reply Yelling ‘I hate white people’ and punching one isn’t a hate crime, Canadian judge rules
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Posted 12/10/17 , edited 12/10/17

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

So... What do the sane people think? is a 'Drunken Indian' yelling "I hate white people" then assaulting a random 'white' person committing a hate crime? or are they just drunk?


Damn are we really still talking about this lmfao

Like, even if this was considered a hate crime, wouldn't you have to agree that it would be among the softest of hate crimes ever?

What is it with this crowd that wants to push a narrative so badly even when it's become clear that they are wrong?

Wouldn't it just be easier to just to move on to your next hot take? Instead you basically want to hang around and get some more

It's strange to me.
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Posted 12/10/17 , edited 12/10/17

qwueri wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

So... What do the sane people think? is a 'Drunken Indian' yelling "I hate white people" then assaulting a random 'white' person committing a hate crime? or are they just drunk?


I question why a simple drunken assault is worthy of conversation to begin with, regardless of what was said.


So instead of Taking Rujiukin's anti-Canadian posts seriously I should just let them die? :)


EDIT: I'm bored.



qwueri 
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Posted 12/10/17 , edited 12/10/17

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

So instead of Taking Rujiukin's anti-Canadian posts seriously I should just let them die? :)




Generally that's the most expedient method unless some conversation keeps them going past a day.
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Posted 12/10/17 , edited 12/10/17

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

So instead of Taking Rujiukin's anti-Canadian posts seriously I should just let them die? :)



Oh god no, please please go on.
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51 / F / Toronto
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Posted 12/10/17 , edited 12/10/17
So Hate Crimes in general? we've got them on the books. Do you think in General they are being applied fairly?
When's the last time you recall anyone being convicted of a hate crime? In my case I think it was Keegstra and that was like 40 years ago.
Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

When's the last time you recall anyone being convicted of a hate crime? In my case I think it was Keegstra and that was like 40 years ago.


Are you talking about the last time you heard media covering a hate crime in Canada?
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29 / F / England
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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17
Oh well she got punched in the face, what about all the stuff that happens to natives on a daily basis... All the native women that go missing because white people don't think they really matter, even in my own city there have been many hits and runs on the highway killing natives... never solved
So obviously there are many that don't like white people but they aint going around lynching people. Get over it lol
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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

Spiffler978 wrote:

Oh well she got punched in the face, what about all the stuff that happens to natives on a daily basis... All the native women that go missing because white people don't think they really matter, even in my own city there have been many hits and runs on the highway killing natives... never solved
So obviously there are many that don't like white people but they aint going around lynching people. Get over it lol


Natives in England? huh? white people are the natives there, no??
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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

MrAnimeSK wrote:


Spiffler978 wrote:

Oh well she got punched in the face, what about all the stuff that happens to natives on a daily basis... All the native women that go missing because white people don't think they really matter, even in my own city there have been many hits and runs on the highway killing natives... never solved
So obviously there are many that don't like white people but they aint going around lynching people. Get over it lol


Natives in England? huh? white people are the natives there, no??


Im from Canada but live in England now..... So I ment back in Canada

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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/17/17

Spiffler978 wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:


Spiffler978 wrote:

Oh well she got punched in the face, what about all the stuff that happens to natives on a daily basis... All the native women that go missing because white people don't think they really matter, even in my own city there have been many hits and runs on the highway killing natives... never solved
So obviously there are many that don't like white people but they aint going around lynching people. Get over it lol


Natives in England? huh? white people are the natives there, no??


Im from Canada but live in England now..... So I ment back in Canada



I see.
Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

Spiffler978 wrote:

Oh well she got punched in the face, what about all the stuff that happens to natives on a daily basis... All the native women that go missing because white people don't think they really matter, even in my own city there have been many hits and runs on the highway killing natives... never solved
So obviously there are many that don't like white people but they aint going around lynching people. Get over it lol


Not to be rude but this is honestly a classic case of "whataboutism".
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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:
Not to be rude but this is honestly a classic case of "whataboutism". With that being said Canada has set a precedent, I expect all cases of drunken behaviour resulting in racial slurs (And physical assault) to be dismissed as not hate speech.


That's usually the case in the vast majority of situations in America, Canada, and the United Kingdom.
I have lived in the United Kingdom for several years and saw plenty of drunken BNP folks punching those that they considered "foreigners" while pissed drunk and shouting slurs (only to be charged with assault, at most).
Don't even get me started on the amount of racial commentary that occurs in a random bar on Highway 64 or in the deep pockets of nowhere once someone is drunk and lively.
Sure, it often results in a bar fight or two but most just walk away and moan about how stupid they were the night before.

But at the same time, you're reaching.
There is not enough information that determines the why behind the judge's ruling for causation of a precedence in law.
There are a few factors that were not mentioned in this thread, at all.

1. Crowchief (the perpetrator) has a history of assault (source: http://www.vancouversun.com/Woman+jailed+after+assault+witness+murder+trial/8463008/story.html)
2. Crowchief has also had issues with substance abuse (which is why they have legally mandated that she is to abstain from intoxicating substances and is banned from any business where their principle business is alcohol).
3. One of the biggest largest stain on Canadian history is their practice against the indigenous people.
One of the ways they forced indigenous children into their school system and suggested that if they adopted Christianity, they would be modernized. (source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280
Even recently, indigenous women in Canada have been murdered or just randomly vanished (source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/04/the-mystery-of-1000-missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-in-canada/.

1 and 2 shows that the individual was not very stable to begin with.
3 shows that there is additional history and circumstances that haven't been brought up thoroughly in this discussion.
None of which excuses her behavior which is why she was incarcerated while waiting for her trial and has been given a legal ultimatum to ensure her continued freedom.
3 could bring about a focus on it being a hate crime, but 1 and 2 shows that she wasn't all quite right (mentally speaking) to begin with.
I would say that I would focus on the alcohol being a contributing factor, her past history with assault (which her last brush with the law wasn't racially motivated and was as random as this one), and the fact that she may have psychological issues beyond her racism.

I will quote the judge in his analysis of the case as a whole:


[15] These examples are readily distinguishable from this case. The offender said “I hate white people” and threw a punch. Her counsel argued that the offender was complaining about her socio-economic situation. Crown counsel called that “mere speculation.’ I agree. But there is no evidence either way about what the offender meant or whether (as in the cited cases) she holds or promotes an ideology which would explain why this assault was aimed at this victim. What is clear is that the offender was one of a group of three indigenous persons, one of whom was apparently engaged in a friendly conversation with the victim’s friend. This, again, is unlike the situations in the cases referred to by the Crown.
[16] I am not satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that this offence was, even in part, motivated by racial bias.


Source: https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc/2016/2016abpc151/2016abpc151.html - this would be beneficial for those who want clarification on the judge's ruling as a whole.
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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

When's the last time you recall anyone being convicted of a hate crime? In my case I think it was Keegstra and that was like 40 years ago.


Are you talking about the last time you heard media covering a hate crime in Canada?



No. When have you heard of someone in Canada being CONVICTED of a hate crime.
Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

Cydoemus wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:
Not to be rude but this is honestly a classic case of "whataboutism". With that being said Canada has set a precedent, I expect all cases of drunken behaviour resulting in racial slurs (And physical assault) to be dismissed as not hate speech.


That's usually the case in the vast majority of situations in America, Canada, and the United Kingdom.
I have lived in the United Kingdom for several years and saw plenty of drunken BNP folks punching those that they considered "foreigners" while pissed drunk and shouting slurs (only to be charged with assault, at most).
Don't even get me started on the amount of racial commentary that occurs in a random bar on Highway 64 or in the deep pockets of nowhere once someone is drunk and lively.
Sure, it often results in a bar fight or two but most just walk away and moan about how stupid they were the night before.

But at the same time, you're reaching.
There is not enough information that determines the why behind the judge's ruling for causation of a precedence in law.
There are a few factors that were not mentioned in this thread, at all.

1. Crowchief (the perpetrator) has a history of assault (source: http://www.vancouversun.com/Woman+jailed+after+assault+witness+murder+trial/8463008/story.html)
2. Crowchief has also had issues with substance abuse (which is why they have legally mandated that she is to abstain from intoxicating substances and is banned from any business where their principle business is alcohol).
3. One of the biggest largest stain on Canadian history is their practice against the indigenous people.
One of the ways they forced indigenous children into their school system and suggested that if they adopted Christianity, they would be modernized. (source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280
Even recently, indigenous women in Canada have been murdered or just randomly vanished (source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/04/the-mystery-of-1000-missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-in-canada/.

1 and 2 shows that the individual was not very stable to begin with.
3 shows that there is additional history and circumstances that haven't been brought up thoroughly in this discussion.
None of which excuses her behavior which is why she was incarcerated while waiting for her trial and has been given a legal ultimatum to ensure her continued freedom.
3 could bring about a focus on it being a hate crime, but 1 and 2 shows that she wasn't all quite right (mentally speaking) to begin with.
I would say that I would focus on the alcohol being a contributing factor, her past history with assault (which her last brush with the law wasn't racially motivated and was as random as this one), and the fact that she may have psychological issues beyond her racism.

I will quote the judge in his analysis of the case as a whole:


[15] These examples are readily distinguishable from this case. The offender said “I hate white people” and threw a punch. Her counsel argued that the offender was complaining about her socio-economic situation. Crown counsel called that “mere speculation.’ I agree. But there is no evidence either way about what the offender meant or whether (as in the cited cases) she holds or promotes an ideology which would explain why this assault was aimed at this victim. What is clear is that the offender was one of a group of three indigenous persons, one of whom was apparently engaged in a friendly conversation with the victim’s friend. This, again, is unlike the situations in the cases referred to by the Crown.
[16] I am not satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that this offence was, even in part, motivated by racial bias.


Source: https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abpc/doc/2016/2016abpc151/2016abpc151.html - this would be beneficial for those who want clarification on the judge's ruling as a whole.


You must of got a hold of my comment before I edited it seems. I agree with you on everything besides your view that the vast majority of incidents like this in the UK result in only assault being charged, I don't have the data to form a conclusion like that as I have never seen it. The judges ruling certainly hasn't established any rules that could be binding or persuasive in future instances for application for hate crime charges.

http://www.copfs.gov.uk/images/Documents/Equality_Diversity/Hate%20Crimes/Hate%20Crime%20in%20Scotland%202016-17.pdf Hate crime charges for Scotland.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

No. When have you heard of someone in Canada being CONVICTED of a hate crime.


Justin Rehberg 2010.
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51 / F / Toronto
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Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17

GrandMasterTime wrote:


Justin Rehberg 2010.


Oh? What did he do?


Posted 12/12/17 , edited 12/12/17


Cross burning in front of an interracial couples yard.
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