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Post Reply [Article] "Science and God" by Unknown
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:

i find it weak... that they use science to didprove God and they didnt make the conclusions themselves... are they afraid knowing someone as great as Jesus?


maybe they dont like the idea that there is someone greater then them, maybe they wanna feel like they're so smart that they can explain everything... I dunno


but.... why do they compare humans to animals.... i cant imagine having an ape as an ancestor... God wouldnt want us to be that low.. were His children...


well there are simularities between apes and humans (e.g. aposable thumbs) so when scientists find something that is similar they study it and come to conclusions... through their studying, that these similarities are somehow related to humans (like the idea that we "evolved" from apes).

I dunno. I can't say whether they're right or not cause I dont know. I dont really like the idea that we evolved from apes either but there are people who will try to explain everything through their studies and ideologies... I't kinda funny but in a way some Christians are like that too... they try to explain things through their ideologies and whatnot... some people just want to know where they came from... theres a few different reasons... personally I think science is a fantastic thing but it, just like religion, can get out of hand


yeah, both can get out of hand... i forgot the scientist who made that theory tho...

but my professor told me that on his deathbed.. he told those around him that God is the missing link...

see, the evolution has a missing link until now...and he told them that... and he said at his last breath that it was God who created us


Charles Darwin was credited with the theory of evolution. And, if memory serves, he discredited his own theory.
But I think he was kind of right... There is always the possibility that God used evolution to create humans... though I dont think it was as complex as a single celled organism turning into a fish, that's kind of rediculous... but yes, Darwin was a Christian, whatever people think.


yeah i thought of that too... theres always a reason ryt? maybe Charles Darwin was also used to convey to us that God made us that way...thru evolution... and God was the missing link that Darwin cannot prove to the scientific community...
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08

emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:

i find it weak... that they use science to didprove God and they didnt make the conclusions themselves... are they afraid knowing someone as great as Jesus?


maybe they dont like the idea that there is someone greater then them, maybe they wanna feel like they're so smart that they can explain everything... I dunno


but.... why do they compare humans to animals.... i cant imagine having an ape as an ancestor... God wouldnt want us to be that low.. were His children...


well there are simularities between apes and humans (e.g. aposable thumbs) so when scientists find something that is similar they study it and come to conclusions... through their studying, that these similarities are somehow related to humans (like the idea that we "evolved" from apes).

I dunno. I can't say whether they're right or not cause I dont know. I dont really like the idea that we evolved from apes either but there are people who will try to explain everything through their studies and ideologies... I't kinda funny but in a way some Christians are like that too... they try to explain things through their ideologies and whatnot... some people just want to know where they came from... theres a few different reasons... personally I think science is a fantastic thing but it, just like religion, can get out of hand


yeah, both can get out of hand... i forgot the scientist who made that theory tho...

but my professor told me that on his deathbed.. he told those around him that God is the missing link...

see, the evolution has a missing link until now...and he told them that... and he said at his last breath that it was God who created us


Charles Darwin was credited with the theory of evolution. And, if memory serves, he discredited his own theory.
But I think he was kind of right... There is always the possibility that God used evolution to create humans... though I dont think it was as complex as a single celled organism turning into a fish, that's kind of rediculous... but yes, Darwin was a Christian, whatever people think.


yeah i thought of that too... theres always a reason ryt? maybe Charles Darwin was also used to convey to us that God made us that way...thru evolution... and God was the missing link that Darwin cannot prove to the scientific community...


maybe, but I'm not Darwin so I dont know... plus I cant ask him cause he's not exactly around... still... if we're "made in the image of God" then it sure took a while to get there haha
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08
^lol... anyway, at least he discarded his own theory in the end and admitted that God is the creator still.... God still wins..
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08

Faeleia wrote:

A science professor begins his school Year with a lecture to the
students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of
his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person
over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would
you try? "

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.
Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer
that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son.
Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the
principle that our works define who we are, the n God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly
the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in
Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that
matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes.."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to
that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His
own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat.."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.. "You can have
lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, White
heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We
can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any
further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be
able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the
opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about Darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise i s flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time.
"Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.. "You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death
is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let
me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No
one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you' ll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is Faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.
It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to
describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of
what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes
when there is no light."

The professor sat down.


I was so speechless after reading. Where do you get all these???
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

Well all I did was refute the stupid points in that article. I enjoyed it as it was easy.


Yup, I thought it was not a good defense either. This was my response in the other forum where I took the article from:
---
Actually, it can be argued, the points that were brought up. But before I share my ideas about that, I would like to add that it's one thing to pile on science as your weapon for reasoning, it's another with philosophy. Whereas I would really feel that philosophy is actually a rather abstract form of logic in the terms of 'what if'.

The professor used the illustration of a sick and needy person as a weak gauge to test morality. Firstly, does philosophy and science not already cover the fact that the cognitive process of every man is different and thus is indeterminable?

In other words, how can the outward form of an action be truly and taken as an absolute backing for their level of 'goodness or bad'? So going by this logic a would-be murderer who helps someone 20 minutes before he commits murder on that same person be considered good then bad? Is morality so shaken like that?

Who can tell but God the motives of man? Who can Judge a man's heart but the Almighty? To assume that one can is already a sign of self-righteousness.


Next, the professor attempts to seek the idea of God through reason and logic and the five senses. The very basic question one would have to ask is that, if God were to be found, through the use of the five senses, or he be found using deduction, wouldn't that just show how non-mighty he is? It's yet another show of self-assurance in the assumption that Man can reach God by himself and his works.

Should the prof want to use the Bible, he should have followed through. Why did he not quote the Bible when questioning his dear student? God does say that a man's thoughts are not God's thoughts. If man could be saved by their own works, Jesus is never needed.

Lastly, the prof must have an idea of what Good and Evil constituted. A man of science would probably go like this and consider the way the society does: Which is through their actions.

I would question: Is the fact that man can be socialized into the ideas of what morality meant be denied? Who gave you the definition of 'good' and 'evil' Why is the act of stealing wrong, if there wasn't something to compare it against in the first place?

The impulses and desires to be like God is inherent in us, even as sinners. We do have an idea of what good is, because that's God-like. As his lost children, we don't even know, but we long to be like our Father.

The very sad thing is that Satan has quickly put a stake on it and proclaim that being good is no longer in. Bad is in. Emo is fun, cutting yourself is cool. Hey. God never meant for destruction to happen, apart from you allowing yourself to be destroyed.

Science can be destructive if one neglects the existence of Faith. Without faith, families wouldn't exist. The bonds we now hold would merely be but contractual. What happened to good, simple faith we knew when we were young?


(But I actually didn't like the student's replies much either, lol, at least I wouldn't have went out to ridicule the prof like that, neither would I wait this long to stand up for my faith)
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08

deathnoterocks wrote:

I was so speechless after reading. Where do you get all these???


It's from talkjesus.com :)


RivrStyx wrote:

Charles Darwin was credited with the theory of evolution. And, if memory serves, he discredited his own theory.
But I think he was kind of right... There is always the possibility that God used evolution to create humans... though I dont think it was as complex as a single celled organism turning into a fish, that's kind of rediculous... but yes, Darwin was a Christian, whatever people think.


Would be very interesting to think about evolution though. What I kind of like about God is that sometimes he veils his best secrets from us so when we finally get it, it'll be a great truth. I will ask Jesus to show me when I see him. Also, to not know triggers imagination. Imagination comes from God. Creativity is a application of imagination. No I didn't copy it from elsewhere.
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


emm0548 wrote:

i find it weak... that they use science to didprove God and they didnt make the conclusions themselves... are they afraid knowing someone as great as Jesus?


maybe they dont like the idea that there is someone greater then them, maybe they wanna feel like they're so smart that they can explain everything... I dunno


but.... why do they compare humans to animals.... i cant imagine having an ape as an ancestor... God wouldnt want us to be that low.. were His children...


well there are simularities between apes and humans (e.g. aposable thumbs) so when scientists find something that is similar they study it and come to conclusions... through their studying, that these similarities are somehow related to humans (like the idea that we "evolved" from apes).

I dunno. I can't say whether they're right or not cause I dont know. I dont really like the idea that we evolved from apes either but there are people who will try to explain everything through their studies and ideologies... I't kinda funny but in a way some Christians are like that too... they try to explain things through their ideologies and whatnot... some people just want to know where they came from... theres a few different reasons... personally I think science is a fantastic thing but it, just like religion, can get out of hand


yeah, both can get out of hand... i forgot the scientist who made that theory tho...

but my professor told me that on his deathbed.. he told those around him that God is the missing link...

see, the evolution has a missing link until now...and he told them that... and he said at his last breath that it was God who created us


Charles Darwin was credited with the theory of evolution. And, if memory serves, he discredited his own theory.
But I think he was kind of right... There is always the possibility that God used evolution to create humans... though I dont think it was as complex as a single celled organism turning into a fish, that's kind of rediculous... but yes, Darwin was a Christian, whatever people think.

Well he was indeed a Christian when he developed his theory. However this changed in later life and he died an agnostic. Here is a quote:

"Science has nothing to do with Christ, except insofar as the habit of scientific research makes a man cautious in admitting evidence. For myself, I do not believe that there ever has been any revelation. As for a future life, every man must judge for himself between conflicting vague probabilities."

Darwin did not hink religion and science had anything to do with each other.



ahh, fair enough, my mistake... good stuff to knowfor the future
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Posted 2/18/08 , edited 4/18/08
Stupid or not it wasn't for you to judge. Anyway, it's not an opp to quarrel.
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Posted 2/22/08 , edited 4/18/08

Faeleia wrote:


A science professor begins his school Year with a lecture to the
students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of
his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person
over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would
you try? "

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.
Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer
that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son.
Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the
principle that our works define who we are, the n God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly
the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in
Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that
matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes.."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to
that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His
own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat.."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.. "You can have
lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, White
heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We
can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any
further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be
able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the
opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about Darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise i s flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time.
"Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.. "You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death
is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let
me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No
one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you' ll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is Faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.
It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to
describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of
what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes
when there is no light."

The professor sat down.


wow this is WAY TOO COOL!
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