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Post Reply White supremacist violence on the rise in the U.S. (read OP)
runec 
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

Cardamom_Ginger wrote:
Doesn't racism cause racism, which inspires more racism, though? Like, at some point, people unwittingly set up self-fulfilling prophecies of each other? People cave in to negative expectations all the time.


Well, see, the problem is the "supremacy" part of the term. That part isn't caving to a negative expectation. That's putting an ideology to it.

You can resent people without having to go get a uniform and flag tailored.



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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

MrAnimeSK wrote:


qwueri wrote:

Clearly it's all the Nazi punching that caused the rise in violence, amirite?


Probably, any and every white Trump supporter being instantly labelled as a "Nazi" probably actually would have had at least some part in it (iam not convinced it's actually happening anyway though, the rise in white supremacist violence).
And yes, i would imagine getting punched in the face would cause a reaction. Are you suggesting that if you were punched in the face that you wouldn't want revenge?



You know when people call me names, what I don't do is get violent. If I was labelled as a nazi I would inform them I am not and since my actions aren't in line with the ideology I wouldn't need to do anything more. Why then do you think when a other people are labelled as nazis it "has some part in it"? If I call you a nazi what would your reaction be?

If I was punched in the face I would be angry, I (depending on the situation) would want revenge. but that doesn't mean I would go out and get it.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18
Smells like another bullshit story, to be honest.

The word choice in the Atlanta article is such that it leaves you with no doubt as to which way the writer leans politically. I mean, seriously? They're going to end the article with "In this climate of emboldened haters and bigots"? Just from word choice alone, you can already tell they're trying to sell you something.

Both the Atlanta and News Week articles provide stats from just one source, the ADL. Doesn't that seem a bit sketchy, both of them only relying on a single source? Even worse, If you click on the ADL link, it just leads to an article that tells you about the conclusion of the study. It's not a link to the actual study itself and it doesn't tell you anything about how the study was conducted, so we can't judge for ourselves whether or not the information is credible. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the ADL article doesn't appear to cite sources other than itself, which again seems suspicious and is not especially persuasive.


Well, anyway, you can pretty much see what the writer in the Atlanta article is trying to sell to readers in the third to last paragraph when they say: "This is why ADL supports federal and state programs to counter all forms of violent extremism and advocates for enhanced penalties for those who commit hate crimes."



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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

zefur wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:


qwueri wrote:

Clearly it's all the Nazi punching that caused the rise in violence, amirite?


Probably, any and every white Trump supporter being instantly labelled as a "Nazi" probably actually would have had at least some part in it (iam not convinced it's actually happening anyway though, the rise in white supremacist violence).
And yes, i would imagine getting punched in the face would cause a reaction. Are you suggesting that if you were punched in the face that you wouldn't want revenge?



You know when people call me names, what I don't do is get violent. If I was labelled as a nazi I would inform them I am not and since my actions aren't in line with the ideology I wouldn't need to do anything more. Why then do you think when a other people are labelled as nazis it "has some part in it"? If I call you a nazi what would your reaction be?

If I was punched in the face I would be angry, I (depending on the situation) would want revenge. but that doesn't mean I would go out and get it.



Iam not a violent person either and iam fairly thick skinned. It takes a fair bit for me to get physical. But if someone punched me in the face i will be punching them back. Unless of course iam knocked out or if the dude is like a body builder or iam way out numbered or something. But it would probably just be automatic reaction to swing back.
As far as getting revenge later on, well i wouldn't go out and attack just anyone for the sake of revenge or anything like that.

I think it has some part in it because people are being falsely accused of being something that they're not which could lead to them getting attacked unjustifiably which could turn a non violent or non racist person to be one or both of those things.
Plus sometimes people eventually get fed up with being accused of things they're not guilty of.
Usually those who are bullied will eventually snap and fight back.

But i mean its probably white anti whites and SJW's that are the ones going out of their way to punch so called "Nazi's" anyways so it probably is causing white on white violence rather than race vs race violence anyway though lol..



runec wrote:

I continue to be impressed that people have found a way to try and blame even white supremacy itself on black people.


I blame the far left and political correctness way more than POC to be honest. But i mean blacks constantly saying all whites are racist and you cant be racist to a white person and etc doesn't really help matters. I mean SOME black people say that, probably SJWs say it more so.

I listen to hop hop and black people often refer to themselves as gods and kings an queens and make a lot of pro black music and etc. There's no problem with that but whites are not allowed to do the same thing so you can see how people could get annoyed.
Especially when whites of today have nothing to do with the past and have never done anything wrong themselves as far as racially and yet are accused of it and raised to feel guilty.
Iam not saying it's black peoples fault. Iam not saying it should make people want to act violently.
If we cant move forward, past the past, then this shit will forever continue. Well until there are no white people left. lol.



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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

MrAnimeSK wrote:

Probably, any and every white Trump supporter being instantly labelled as a "Nazi" probably actually would have had at least some part in it (iam not convinced it's actually happening anyway though, the rise in white supremacist violence).
And yes, i would imagine getting punched in the face would cause a reaction. Are you suggesting that if you were punched in the face that you wouldn't want revenge?


I'm blond haired, blue eyed, and about as lily white as it gets. And I was a racist little shit growing up in a small town. But no, getting punched in the face for being mistaken for a Nazi would not make me want to plow a truck into a crowd or seek out a random minority to harass or assault.

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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

qwueri wrote:


I'm blond haired, blue eyed, and about as lily white as it gets. And I was a racist little shit growing up in a small town. But no, getting punched in the face for being mistaken for a Nazi would not make me want to plow a truck into a crowd or seek out a random minority to harass or assault.



So a "Nazi" dose that once and that's a Nazi thing, Muslims do it multiple times, nothing to do with Islam! lol but change minority with non believer.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

MrAnimeSK wrote:

So a "Nazi" dose that once and that's a Nazi thing, Muslims do it multiple times, nothing to do with Islam! lol but change minority with non believer.


I don't see "Nazi" conflated with a larger ideology like you're conflating Islamist Terrorist's actions with Islam as a whole.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

qwueri wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:

So a "Nazi" dose that once and that's a Nazi thing, Muslims do it multiple times, nothing to do with Islam! lol but change minority with non believer.


I don't see "Nazi" conflated with a larger ideology like you're conflating Islamist Terrorist's actions with Islam as a whole.


You have to admit though, some people put all whites in the same boat as well.
Anyway iam not going to participate in killing this thread again.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

MrAnimeSK wrote:

You have to admit though, some people put all whites in the same boat as well.
Anyway iam not going to participate in killing this thread again.


I can't say I've seen someone conflate the actions of white supremacists with all white people, at least not with a straight face. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it's not something I've seen as a widespread occurrence. Particularly not on this forum.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

qwueri wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:

You have to admit though, some people put all whites in the same boat as well.
Anyway iam not going to participate in killing this thread again.


I can't say I've seen someone conflate the actions of white supremacists with all white people, at least not with a straight face. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it's not something I've seen as a widespread occurrence. Particularly not on this forum.


It's more so the fact that white supremacists are extremely rare yet are made out to be very common.
runec 
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

Shipwright wrote:
Both the Atlanta and News Week articles provide stats from just one source, the ADL. Doesn't that seem a bit sketchy, both of them only relying on a single source? Even worse, If you click on the ADL link, it just leads to an article that tells you about the conclusion of the study. It's not a link to the actual study itself and it doesn't tell you anything about how the study was conducted, so we can't judge for ourselves whether or not the information is credible. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the ADL article doesn't appear to cite sources other than itself, which again seems suspicious and is not especially persuasive.


If you, you know, read the ADL article past 1 paragraph you find a link to the study. Alternatively, the pdf version of the study is cleverly hidden behind all of 5 seconds of Googling. As for the ADL, yes they conducted the study themselves using data they themselves compile annually. That in and of itself is neither sketchy nor suspicious. They do include figures for left wing, black and Islamist extremism as well.

Now, if you have issues with the data itself then by all means, cite an alternative source that contradicts it for us to examine.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

runec wrote:


Shipwright wrote:
Both the Atlanta and News Week articles provide stats from just one source, the ADL. Doesn't that seem a bit sketchy, both of them only relying on a single source? Even worse, If you click on the ADL link, it just leads to an article that tells you about the conclusion of the study. It's not a link to the actual study itself and it doesn't tell you anything about how the study was conducted, so we can't judge for ourselves whether or not the information is credible. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the ADL article doesn't appear to cite sources other than itself, which again seems suspicious and is not especially persuasive.


If you, you know, read the ADL article past 1 paragraph you find a link to the study. Alternatively, the pdf version of the study is cleverly hidden behind all of 5 seconds of Googling. As for the ADL, yes they conducted the study themselves using data they themselves compile annually. That in and of itself is neither sketchy nor suspicious. They do include figures for left wing, black and Islamist extremism as well.

Now, if you have issues with the data itself then by all means, cite an alternative source that contradicts it for us to examine.


Which study are study talking about? Are you talking about this https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-white-supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017 ? Where did you find the pdf version.
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

Cathugud wrote:
Which study are study talking about? Are you talking about this https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-white-supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017 ? Where did you find the pdf version.


I'm talking about what happens when you click the first link available on that page. >.>
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

runec wrote:


Cathugud wrote:
Which study are study talking about? Are you talking about this https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-white-supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017 ? Where did you find the pdf version.


I'm talking about what happens when you click the first link available on that page. >.>


No need to be cross. For some reason I thought you were talking about the The Atlantic article. Can the pdf version be found in the report?

For those that can't find the data on the incidents they used as examples of numbers contributing to rising levels of white supremacy I'll post them here.

"The 2017 extremist-related murders preliminarily documented by ADL include:

Reston, Virginia, December 22, 2017. An accused white supremacist teenager (as a juvenile, his name is being withheld until/unless he is formally charged as an adult) is reported to have killed the parents of his girlfriend before shooting himself, reportedly because they had convinced their daughter to break up with him because of his ostensible white supremacist beliefs.
Aztec, New Mexico, December 14, 2017. White supremacist David Atchison disguised himself as a student in order to conduct a school shooting at a local high school, where he killed two students before killing himself.
New York City, October 31, 2017. An Islamic extremist, Sayfullo Saipov, is accused of driving a rental truck down a bike path in New York City, killing eight people and injuring 11 others before being shot and arrested by police. Saipov reportedly claimed allegiance to ISIS.
Greeley, Colorado, August 16, 2017. Kelly Raisley, believed to be a member or associate of the 211 Crew white supremacist gang, was arrested on first-degree murder charges for the murder of his uncle, Randy Gene Baker. Baker’s wife and sister were similarly arrested. The motive was apparently personal.
Charlottesville, Virginia, August 12, 2017. White supremacist James Alex Fields, Jr., from Maumee, Ohio, was charged with first-degree murder and other crimes for deliberately ramming his vehicle into a crowd of protesters opposing the white supremacist “Unite the Right” rally being held in the city that weekend, injuring 19 people and killing one, Heather Heyer.
Samish Island, Washington, July 14, 2017. An alt lite conspiracy theorist and vlogger, Lane Maurice Davis, allegedly murdered his father following an argument over Davis’s beliefs.
Century Correctional Institution, Florida, June 19, 2017. Robert Hunt, an inmate with white supremacist tattoos, some common to prison gangs, is accused of stabbing to death an African-American inmate, Jorge Slaughter.
Putnam County Georgia, June 13, 2017. Ricky Dubose, a member of the Ghostface Gangsters white supremacist prison gang, and another inmate, Donnie Russell Rowe, reportedly killed two corrections officers while trying to escape from a prison bus. They were later recaptured.
Portland, Oregon, May 26, 2017. Police charge right-wing extremist Jeremy Christian with stabbing to death two men and severely injuring a third who were coming to the defense of two teenaged girls, one African-American and the other wearing a hijab, whom Christian was reportedly harassing.
Tampa, Florida, May 19, 2017. White supremacist Devon Arthurs allegedly shot to death two of his roommates for making fun of his recent conversion to Islam. All three, and a fourth roommate, were members of Atomwaffen, a neo-Nazi group.
Broadwater County, Montana, May 16, 2017. Anti-government extremists Lloyd Barrus and Marshall Barrus are accused of killing a Broadwater County sheriff’s deputy as part of a “suicide mission.” Marshall Barrus was killed by police in a subsequent shootout and Lloyd Barrus was arrested.
Dallas, Texas, May 1, 2017. Black nationalist Derick Lamont Brown killed his godfather, with whom he shared a house, and wounded a neighbor and a paramedic before killing himself after police arrived.
Fresno, California, April 18, 2017. Kori Ali Muhammad, a black nationalist, allegedly killed a motel security guard then, several days later, embarked upon a shooting spree that killed three more people before police were able to arrest him.
New York City, New York, March 30, 2017. Maryland white supremacist James Harris Jackson travelled to New York City to attack African-American men in order to stop white women from engaging in interracial relationships. He is charged with fatally stabbing a homeless man before turning himself in to police.
North Judson, Indiana, March 3, 2017. Aryan Circle member Edward Blackburn allegedly shot and killed another man who was reportedly dating his ex-girlfriend.
Leadwood, Missouri, February 9, 2017. Frank Ancona, head of the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, was shot to death; his wife and fellow Klan member, Malissa Ancona, and her son have been charged for the murder.
Denver, Colorado, February 1, 2017. Joshua Andrew Cummings reportedly shot and killed a transit security guard in Denver. Cummings, a convert to Islam described by people who knew him as possibly becoming radicalized, claimed after his arrest that he had pledged his allegiance to ISIS after three days of fasting behind bars but that the murder was not done on behalf of ISIS.
San Antonio, Texas, January 29, 2017. Ashton Lucas Lomas was charged with capital murder after allegedly robbing and shooting to death Martin Gonzales over an alleged dispute Gonzales had with another person. Lomas and others charged in the case appear to be members or associates of the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas.
Lafayette, Indiana, January 16, 2017. Wesley Andrew Hampton, a self-declared white supremacist, and another defendant allegedly robbed and murdered a man in a home invasion.
"

I do find it interesting that instead of separating ideological driven and non ideological driven data sets they have merged them into two when doing the former would result in more a meaningful and interesting presentation of the data. In my opinion the best thing you can take away from this report is that there is probably a correlation between crime and beliefs that are branded as "extremist". When incidents like "Leadwood, Missouri, February 9, 2017. Frank Ancona, head of the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, was shot to death; his wife and fellow Klan member, Malissa Ancona, and her son have been charged for the murder." are compared to incidents like "New York City, October 31, 2017. An Islamic extremist, Sayfullo Saipov, is accused of driving a rental truck down a bike path in New York City, killing eight people and injuring 11 others before being shot and arrested by police. Saipov reportedly claimed allegiance to ISIS." it gives me the impression that the person or people who wrote this particular ADL report are clutching at straws.
runec 
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Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18

Cathugud wrote:
No need to be cross. For some reason I thought you were talking about the The Atlantic article. Can the pdf version be found in the report?


Apologies, there's just so much tomfoolery about the forums today its getting pretty frustrating. Also double sorry it's the last report pdf that was linked ( they put it up for comparison ). The pdf's for every year are identical to the posted reports though. So no real additional information on the methodology beyond what it already says.
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