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Post Reply Netflix forms alliance with studio Bones, Production IG and Wit Studio
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Posted 1/31/18 , edited 1/31/18

HOOfan_1 wrote:


Mishio1 wrote:

So why exactly DOES Netflix refuse to simulcast shows outside of Japan? They have to realize it puts them at a disadvantage.


Probably because they do all of their own original content that way. Binge watching seems to be part of their identity now. I usually prefer to binge watch stuff, but if they release episodes as they air, then people who want to watch it as they air can watch it, but nothing prevents me from just waiting to binge watch the show.


Correct. Netflix’s binge mentality goes to show that they’re a bit out of touch with anime fans. They’re so hung up on binging that they’re not seeing that simulcasting is one of the things that made anime fandom even greater.


serifsansserif wrote:
I don't disagree in that it's better to form your own opinions,and I often champion it....... But then I look around, and I see a *lot* of the same old same old, and I see the fandom just eats it up.


What ever one’s opinion may be, if the fandom eats it up, why shouldn’t Crunchyroll license these status quo titles? They're a business, businesses like to make money. Shitty blockbuster movies make tons of money, so Hollywood keeps making shitty blockbusters. I may not like a large swath of the content that comes out of Hollywood, like Jerry McBruckheimer big dumb splosion movies, I want substance, but people enjoy them. It doesn’t make it right, but it makes money & money talks.

Sure, who really wouldn’t want a streaming service like Crunchyroll to talor to our own personal tastes, but unfortunately that’s not how it currently works.
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/1/18

serifsansserif wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:


serifsansserif wrote:

Funi and CR should be more selective. Don't support crap titles just because you can buy them in bulk. One of the common complaints I hear about "why anime sucks" these days (and admittedly I'm kinda one of them) is that we've traded in quantity over quality.

You are basically asking that Crunchyroll be something other than CR.

Also, I don't want someone's else's opinion of what is good to be substituted for my own, and and honestly you shouldn't either.

Additionally, how does one accurately judge whether each title is going to be good or not, before they even air? Sure, one can try and go by the source material, but it isn't as if bad adaptations don't exist. What about original anime?

Frankly, the idea of "saving" money on "bad" anime and using that to up the bid on "quality" titles is going to be bad business for a dedicated anime service like CR. It doesn't matter how good a title is, if a service bids more on it than they'll make back, they are still losing money. CR has been profitable since early on, so obviously the way they license anime titles works as a business plan.



*sigh*

Somehow, this always comes back to an argument for the status quo............

I don't disagree in that it's better to form your own opinions,and I often champion it....... But then I look around, and I see a *lot* of the same old same old, and I see the fandom just eats it up.

Ancient, you've been a long time fan as have I... if not longer. Don't you remember what it was like? You'd get some REALLY crap shows, and some REALLY great ones... Not just constant mediocrity. Good enough to keep you watching, but not good enough that you'd really remember..

What I want is more variety. more risks. I want more series that have a planned run beyond the "let's hope we can hook them enough to get more than 13 episodes".

I'd take venus wars if it meant also getting akira. Most anime now seems like it's just checking off boxes, and the best animated series I watched last year came out of china. Anime isn't dying. That claim has been made a million times before... But god damn it, I wish the fanbase wasn't so complacent. I wish it didn't lower its standards as much as it seems to just to justify its sameness across the board....

The biggest thing people say is the problem is the costs and that there's not enough investment in taking chances..

If netflix and amazon are willing to do it, it's not a bad thing. If they fill the gap that CR/Funi fails to, then great.


Jesus Christ, there are bad seasons and there are good seasons and trends do change over time. In late 90's to early 2000's, mecha anime is prevalent, the later half of 00 decade (2005 - 2009) saw a lot of harem anime and VN adaptations. The first half of this decade saw a rise of CGDCT and LN adaptations while a decline in VN adaptations while the latter half of the decade saw a rise in idolshit, isekai LNs and remakes while CGDCT declines (this season is just an oddity) and VN adaptations continues to die off. We don't know how the entrance of Netflix in the market would affect things. Its just that CR is aiming to build a broad catalog, first and foremost, since according to them, "if you want to get deeper into anime, you'll end up going to Crunchyroll anyway".

If you're bitching about episode counts, then the entrance of Netflix won't change anything. If you're bitching about LN adaptations, then blame Kadokawa since they're mostly the ones funding those solely to promote the ongoing novels. At least, VN adaptations have the decency of presenting a finished story.

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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/1/18
Isn't that something. Can't say i'm too pleased, but can't complain. At least it has something good to me.
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/1/18
Well, if anything this means more high quality productions as with Netflix's huge budget that these studios can go all-out with their productions with their mega-sized budgets. At the very least, things would be all and well if they did simulcasts as they are missing out on a golden opportunity not doing it. After all, if they can get us to stay subscribed rather than just subscribe one month at a time and binge until there's nothing left, then they would be really helping themselves out.

So yeah, this deal is a good thing if Netflix is going to simulcast it, but not so much if they don't. At least they are taking a step in the right direction with Violet Evergarden, but shutting Americans out of it when it's all ready to go, there's just no reasonable explanation for doing that. And as long as it only applies to new stuff and not sequels, then that is also all well and good.
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/1/18

dark_pride wrote:

Jesus Christ, there are bad seasons and there are good seasons and trends do change over time. In late 90's to early 2000's, mecha anime is prevalent, the later half of 00 decade (2005 - 2009) saw a lot of harem anime and VN adaptations. The first half of this decade saw a rise of CGDCT and LN adaptations while a decline in VN adaptations while the latter half of the decade saw a rise in idolshit, isekai LNs and remakes while CGDCT declines (this season is just an oddity) and VN adaptations continues to die off. We don't know how the entrance of Netflix in the market would affect things. Its just that CR is aiming to build a broad catalog, first and foremost, since according to them, "if you want to get deeper into anime, you'll end up going to Crunchyroll anyway".


True. There's trends, There's bad seasons. I understand this. There's also playing it safe. There's playing up the tropes. There's the trend towards younger audiences that's been going on for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time... Like at least 2 decades of MC's getting younger.

And to be fair, there's stuff I liked the last season and the season before. I even have one or two that I am looking forward to, and yes, I am enjoying CCS and Kino getting a nice soft reboot...

But there's little original content, and less risk taking....



If you're bitching about episode counts, then the entrance of Netflix won't change anything. If you're bitching about LN adaptations, then blame Kadokawa since they're mostly the ones funding those solely to promote the ongoing novels. At least, VN adaptations have the decency of presenting a finished story.



With this, believe it or not, 26 eps is kinda a standard of stuff from the 90's and ealry 00's. 13 used to be a short showing, and you had the OCCASIONAL story planned to actually run a good number of episodes (52-65) like Fullmetal and Blood+ that, even more curiously, weren't you typical shounen schlock. This wasn't even in the way yonder past.

The reason this changed, along with the reason often given for not taking as many risks in the medium is that the economy is bad, there's little investment, and so on.

So if Netflix throws more money at them (and they can especially compared to CR), then isn't that hopefully helping to solve some of those problems?

And to be honest, we DO see those results. The aforementioned Devilman Crybaby is more artistic and adult, (and a bit risky and risque) than what CR is willing to show. Seven Deadly Sins is going on season 2 (actually season 3) and I don't know if it's because the international market loves it (from what I've read, they do), or if the japanese audience loves it (no clue).

NeoYokio was shit. No denying it. But it was takes some big cajones to try and do something that risky....

(not to mention their own "original" series like a reboot of Voltron, which got two seasons at least, despite it also kinda sucking, and being a bit of an avatar clone).

Violet Evergarden isn't getting the best reviews (a lot are calling it boring AF), but it is a big budget "pretty" show.

They have IDO and Sidonia (got multiple seasons of that), and a handful of others that seem like more "original" properties.

They also (again, it sucked) did a live action death note. That's RISK, and it's also a sign that they aren't backing out of the anime game and that they're more likely to take gambles...

And that's what I miss. I miss the gambling on a series. The risks and rewards of possibly watching utter crap, or watching something so awesome that it stays with me for years to come...

ADDENDUM:

And then there's those live actions. Like I said, they're pretty freaking aggressive about the asian market. I don't know if it's like "Yeah there's this HUGE untapped market for bollywood, chinese films and live action J and K dramas in the US that we MUST buy a crapton of properties for!!!" but they're doing it aggressively... (and again, most likely for the overseas audience and to get into the asian markets).

And you know what? just popping into my mind now, but chances are their interest in anime has absolutely nothing to do with the american weeaboos that demand the instant gratification of simulcasts, but maybe more about appealing again to asian markets, which have in the past 20 years, had a HUGE population, recent modernization, and, a new middle class (ie, a giant emerging market).
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/2/18
Not sure what to say. After Devilman I actually trust Netflix and the studios mentioned are all top tier. Only bad thing? Delays in distribution, only releasing everything only after the whole series has aired in Japan. Good thing, they say fuck TV broadcasts keep everything exclusive and drop the whole series at once.

I'm not afraid of the content, Devilman proved Netflix is cool with blood and smut.
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/1/18

serifsansserif wrote:
But there's little original content, and less risk taking....


So if Netflix throws more money at them (and they can especially compared to CR), then isn't that hopefully helping to solve some of those problems?

And to be honest, we DO see those results. The aforementioned Devilman Crybaby is more artistic and adult, (and a bit risky and risque) than what CR is willing to show. Seven Deadly Sins is going on season 2 (actually season 3) and I don't know if it's because the international market loves it (from what I've read, they do), or if the japanese audience loves it (no clue).

NeoYokio was shit. No denying it. But it was takes some big cajones to try and do something that risky....

(not to mention their own "original" series like a reboot of Voltron, which got two seasons at least, despite it also kinda sucking, and being a bit of an avatar clone).

Violet Evergarden isn't getting the best reviews (a lot are calling it boring AF), but it is a big budget "pretty" show.

They have IDO and Sidonia (got multiple seasons of that), and a handful of others that seem like more "original" properties.

They also (again, it sucked) did a live action death note. That's RISK, and it's also a sign that they aren't backing out of the anime game and that they're more likely to take gambles...

And that's what I miss. I miss the gambling on a series. The risks and rewards of possibly watching utter crap, or watching something so awesome that it stays with me for years to come...
The majority of the "original" anime (Seven Deadly Sins/Sidonia/Ajin/Violet Evergarden), Netflix isn't actually involved with those series besides licensing them. Which isn't any different from what CR does.
NeoYokio was a FoxAnimation turd that was floating in a void since they went under, that was just a bad buy on Netflix's part which had nothing to do cajones or being risky.
But for me the worst thing Netflix has done is the 4Kids treatment they gave PreCure.

For actual original stories its a mixed bag for me, the only original shows that stick with me are ones that push the boundaries like Madoka, NGE, Kill la Kill, and TTGL. So making show making shows that simply appeal to the majority of people will most likely fall flat for me.

Now I actually like a few of the animations they have put out so I don't mean to just bash Netflix completely, because they (and Amazon) have the potential to actually do some good for the anime community and that is completing unfinished shows. Just throw money at sequels we want.

I don't really understand where you want CR to be more selective but yet also be risky. Granted CR does take a gamble by trying to get everything. Finding those gold nugget shows out of the dirt is the reason I watch everything every season since you never know what will be good or not. Of course what is good/bad doesn't matter to business like CR or Netflix, what really matters is what is popular since that is what brings in the money. Keijo is a good example of this.
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/2/18
While I personally have little to no interest in Devilman, the reception has been very positive. And I absolutely adore Violet Evergarden. Plus, the Castlevania animated series was pretty good and almost instantly had a second season greenlit. I do think the decisions regarding release scheduling are stupid but I'm overall willing to give Netflix the benefit of the doubt based on what they've done so far.

Would I rather everything be on CR? Of course, and I'd even be willing to pony up more in sub fees if that was the case, but I do think some level of competition is good as well. Plus, at the end of the day, it's more money from and for actual anime production going towards more anime production and I can't be mad about that.
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Posted 2/1/18 , edited 2/2/18
Well that's two of the best studios they could have done it with so good for them.
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Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18

CKD-Anime wrote:

The majority of the "original" anime (Seven Deadly Sins/Sidonia/Ajin/Violet Evergarden), Netflix isn't actually involved with those series besides licensing them. Which isn't any different from what CR does.
NeoYokio was a FoxAnimation turd that was floating in a void since they went under, that was just a bad buy on Netflix's part which had nothing to do cajones or being risky.
But for me the worst thing Netflix has done is the 4Kids treatment they gave PreCure.


Fine by me. I'm not saying Netflix is the best. In fact, I think they have their own issues. And I believe Amazon has the superior product, even if it's a bitch to find anything on there. But I DO like seeing someone other than the funi/CR megalith have some skin in the game.

And investment is investment? it seems to be helping the people who team up with them at least...




For actual original stories its a mixed bag for me, the only original shows that stick with me are ones that push the boundaries like Madoka, NGE, Kill la Kill, and TTGL. So making show making shows that simply appeal to the majority of people will most likely fall flat for me.

Now I actually like a few of the animations they have put out so I don't mean to just bash Netflix completely, because they (and Amazon) have the potential to actually do some good for the anime community and that is completing unfinished shows. Just throw money at sequels we want.


Not just the sequels we want, but new and innovative stuff as well (if not more). If you want new stuff you got to invest in new material. That means more actually original properties, and a few more crazy ideas. I wasn't praising NeoYokio for what it was. I was saying that it was an original series (no source material) with a staff of unknowns (at least in their field), and someone MUST have prewatched that shit and decided to STILL put it on screen...



I don't really understand where you want CR to be more selective but yet also be risky. Granted CR does take a gamble by trying to get everything. Finding those gold nugget shows out of the dirt is the reason I watch everything every season since you never know what will be good or not. Of course what is good/bad doesn't matter to business like CR or Netflix, what really matters is what is popular since that is what brings in the money. Keijo is a good example of this.


But that's the thing. It's playing it safe buy getting everything it can, and by being virtually unchallenged. It's like betting $1 on every number at a horse race rather than betting $2 on half the horses, knowing there's a chance you might lose. (but also have bigger gains).

Also, I don't know if it's changed, but CR's deal was that they take your membership fees (or ad revenues) and divvy them according to your viewing habits (the titles you watch based on how much you watch them) and somehow (magic?) that goes directly to the creators. They make their money on the merch...

Don't ask me how this all works, as I'd LOOOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEE to know as well, but I was skeptical as hell about it before till someone pointed me to the FAQ section about it.

There's some weird shit about how CR works, (or did work), and if you want to do more digging, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm not professing love of netflix/amazon and CR being shit. I am saying that funi/CR have had it a bit too good and are a bit lax, and that competition will be good. I am also asserting that CR/Funi aren't enough when it comes to "supporting creators", especially when buying as much as you can with as little as you can...

It kinda reminds me of the Manga entertainment approach from the 90's...(though they're different. bigger fanbase, more cash for investing, they're definitely not going for suicidally cheap garbage shows.. (if they even exist anymore. Studios don't seem to be producing "bad anime" of that caliber anymore... I mean the calendars show that everything looks at least "passable" if not boring or full of the same old tropes), but it's similar. Funi's still doing things the funi way. Amazon's stuff reminds me of the old Pioneer/Geneon selection (which were the best, even if they carried a slight premium). We need more people to compete here...
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Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18

GoldCrusader wrote:

I mean if devilman, B the beginng and AICO(which is by BONES) are any indication, they seems to aim for worldwide releases. Also with Netflix, productions crumbling under pressure is pretty much gone. I mainly see this as a positive.

I assume it won't affect shows like AoT and MHA simply because these already have deals with tv networks over in Japan.

Also if you think about how Netflix works. A show doing well and backed by them will pretty much assure extra seasons.



Hmm not likely. Not sure if your aware but the possibility of shows getting 2nd, 3rd, ect seasons isn't based on the shows popularity per se. Its all about blu-ray/DVD sales as well as merchandise sales domestically(Japan). Most of the companies don't care what the rest of the world likes, although that line of thinking is starting to change as customers in the US and China are looking more an more profitable.

Netflix doesn't sell merch or hard discs. That was a perk Amazon had going for it. On the same site you could watch a show and then use your prime account to purchase your favorite shows "swag."
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Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18

serifsansserif wrote: I wasn't praising NeoYokio for what it was. I was saying that it was an original series (no source material) with a staff of unknowns (at least in their field), and someone MUST have prewatched that shit and decided to STILL put it on screen...
That's why I said it was a bad decision on their part given how "selective" they are. Instead of funding crap shows, actually put the money towards something people want.

But that's the thing. It's playing it safe buy getting everything it can, and by being virtually unchallenged. It's like betting $1 on every number at a horse race rather than betting $2 on half the horses, knowing there's a chance you might lose. (but also have bigger gains).

Also, I don't know if it's changed, but CR's deal was that they take your membership fees (or ad revenues) and divvy them according to your viewing habits (the titles you watch based on how much you watch them) and somehow (magic?) that goes directly to the creators. They make their money on the merch...

Don't ask me how this all works, as I'd LOOOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEE to know as well, but I was skeptical as hell about it before till someone pointed me to the FAQ section about it.

There's some weird shit about how CR works, (or did work), and if you want to do more digging, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm not professing love of netflix/amazon and CR being shit. I am saying that funi/CR have had it a bit too good and are a bit lax, and that competition will be good. I am also asserting that CR/Funi aren't enough when it comes to "supporting creators", especially when buying as much as you can with as little as you can...

It kinda reminds me of the Manga entertainment approach from the 90's...(though they're different. bigger fanbase, more cash for investing, they're definitely not going for suicidally cheap garbage shows.. (if they even exist anymore. Studios don't seem to be producing "bad anime" of that caliber anymore... I mean the calendars show that everything looks at least "passable" if not boring or full of the same old tropes), but it's similar. Funi's still doing things the funi way. Amazon's stuff reminds me of the old Pioneer/Geneon selection (which were the best, even if they carried a slight premium). We need more people to compete here...
Thats not a really good analogy since paying more money for a show won't necessarily net you more money, plus you can lose either way.
But thats the point of CR is that they try to get everything. Because, like I said before, nobody knows what will be good/bad that season. So we need a licenser in this position that prevents shows from ending up in the unlicensed void and only viewable on the darkside. Competition is both good and bad, the US has experienced anime bubbles caused by bidding wars. Netflix is probably a good competitor since they have different goals/ideas thus filling a different role compared to CR. The main problem Netflix has is that they don't understand the anime consumer yet, which is why you see so many people complain about their binge method.

I've read the article but I have my doubts.
CR more than likely gets the majority (if not all) of our membership money which in turn is used to license more shows. I doubt they just give the money back, since they have already paid for the show. Unless its some sort of royalty payments or something.

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Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18
-Some info on the Eng. dub recording process: the upcoming "B: the Beginning" finished its Eng. dub recordings over 2 months ago and they were recording the Eng. dub about the same time the Japanese were recording the Japanese dub. The L.A. dubbing method is to "binge record", so to speak. With the Funi simuldub* method, a dubbed epi. might finishing get recording as late as 2-3 days before the dubbed epi. becomes available to watch. Adding to this pressure is that the 1st dub epi. often premieres the same week the 3rd subbed episode starts streaming.

-How Netflix can/should improve.
1. On licensing amount/simulcasts/Eng. dubs: for each season, they pick 8-10 anime series from that season. Of those, at least 5 series get weekly simulcasts and at least 2-3 of those 5 series will get a weekly Eng. dub stream. For finished Eng. dub recordings, debut the 1st Eng. dub the same day as the 1st subbed epi. premiere. For ongoing Eng. dub recordings, debut the 1st Eng. dub epi. AT LEAST the same week the the 3rd subbed epi. becomes available.

2. Concerning availability: have each show be available to at least 95% of those 190+ territories that NF sometimes mentions. We have to also factor how certain governments in some territories censor or block Netflix. Counting time zone differences, if an epi. of each series streams in Territory A before Territory B, have each epi. debut in Territory B within 24 hours of Territory A's premiere. If this method was used, then "Violet Evergarden" would have already been available to the USA by, excluding proxies.

3. Transparency of "Netflix Originals": for a title to carry the "Netflix Originals" label, have it actually be an original anime that was licensed by and partially produced/financed by Netflix. Putting that label on the "Seven Deadly Sins" mini-season (if NF did) is almost like false advertising. In the case of the prev. example, use "Netflix Exclusive" instead.

*However, "simuldub" is a common-law trademark owned by Funimation, thus we should use "simuldub" for Funi. If another company did a similar method, "broadcast dub" would be a good alternative name. Heck, it's what Funi used to call a "simuldub".




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Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18
Im ok with binging mentality, anime is usually 20+ mins a show - its better binged really.
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serifsansserif wrote:

True. There's trends, There's bad seasons. I understand this. There's also playing it safe. There's playing up the tropes. There's the trend towards younger audiences that's been going on for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time... Like at least 2 decades of MC's getting younger.

And to be fair, there's stuff I liked the last season and the season before. I even have one or two that I am looking forward to, and yes, I am enjoying CCS and Kino getting a nice soft reboot...

But there's little original content, and less risk taking....


Three things that come to mind for me here:

1) I kind of get the feeling that you may be glorifying the past a little. In my opinion, there were lots of tropes before but since the process of putting (fan or official) subtitles on a VHS tape and shipping it around the world were slower and more costly, a lot of stuff never reached us or reached us after such delays that it didn't seem like a lot of tropey, same stuff being released at the same time. I certainly didn't realise El Hazard, Tenchi Muyo and Oh my Goddess were silly harem shows when I first saw them. Because to me it was all new at the time.

2) There is no accounting for taste. I like Violet Evergarden and a lot of other 'boring' shows (Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju) because I'm tired of the high school stuff. At least with older characters I feel like I can relate when it comes to job related issues or navigating tricky relationships (family, friends, colleagues and all other kinds). But there's still a lot of people out there who enjoy watching exactly the kind of stuff that has become so tiresome for me.

3) I think Miyazaki was right when he said a lot of Manga and Anime is being created by Otaku who don't spend as much time interacting with the outside world as they do watching Anime and reading Manga. If the creators aren't going out there to find new inspiration, how will their stories be fresh or interesting? If the creators, studios and publishers choose to ignore stories with main characters who are in their 30's or older, will more money really help? I feel like there's a lack of vision when it comes to the possibilities of catering to an older Anime audience.

I guess what I'm saying is, if it was just about the money, surely somebody would've figured out by now that there is a growing international audience of people who grew up watching Anime and are looking for stories that fit their new stages in life. I mean, the people in the 25-50 year old demographic have jobs (those 30 and up are probably moving on to better paying functions too) so there's definitely money to be made there. But then why hasn't anyone jumped into that segment yet?

Still I'm a little bit hopeful. The manga Hataraki Man (2004) by Moyoco Anno had more mature characters. It was adapted into an awesome Anime (2006). I found it in the Viewster catalogue but it's gone now. Unfortunately no one picked up the manga licence (as far as I could tell).

Akiko Higashimura wrote great stuff in Tokyo Tarareba Girls. Kodansha first gave it a digital release to see if it would sell. Come June it'll get a print run. Hopefully, this will be the beginning of more Manga and Anime for those of us who like to escape their everyday lives by reading about peers (more or less) who are somehow worse off than we ourselves are (for me reading TTG was pure Schadenfreude and I loved that about it but I'm guessing there's tons of people here who'd call it boring).
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