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Post Reply Netflix forms alliance with studio Bones, Production IG and Wit Studio

serifsansserif 11274 cr points Send Message: 36 / M Offline	Permalink Reply Quote Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18 CKD-Anime wrote: Thats not a really good analogy since paying more money for a show won't necessarily net you more money, plus you can lose either way. But thats the point of CR is that they try to get everything. Because, like I said before, nobody knows what will be good/bad that season. So we need a licenser in this position that prevents shows from ending up in the unlicensed void and only viewable on the darkside. Competition is both good and bad, the US has experienced anime bubbles caused by bidding wars. Netflix is probably a good competitor since they have different goals/ideas thus filling a different role compared to CR. The main problem Netflix has is that they don't understand the anime consumer yet, which is why you see so many people complain about their binge method. The binge watching is actually the norm... or at least was until fansubs really took center stage. It's like this chunk of anime history people tend to gloss over. And this is where we take go on a tangent: (skip it if you want. It's mainly me ranting) Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide The reason fansubs and pirating became such a problem was because the internet was REALLY easy to access and DVDs were OMFG expensive. Seriously. Gantz - 26 eps spread across TEN FUCKING DVDS!!!!! TEN!!!! ONE-FUCKING-ZERO. 2 eps for disc 1, $30... https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/gantz/dvd-1 And this was at the time I was buying 5 eps a disc at about $25 apiece for Twelve Kingdoms and $30 for typically 4 eps of a Geneon series. And that was a premium on the average DVD movie (new release) that was coming out at about $20 a pop, and you could, theoretically snag a regular american TV series on multidisk format for about $50.... It was mostly the damned greed. And the disrespect to the fans... I mean remember, this shit with DVD prices happened not more than 2-3 years before this horrendous crap came out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP5lz2CYNR4 Meanwhile, you had one VA over at funimation being extremely vocal against fansubs at most cons, and (though I can't find the damned videos when I want to), they come across as a whiny bitch. They said they could "only put so many episodes on a dvd due to the way in order to use the "official dvd" format....." And then I remember the question of fansubs being quicker to get out releases, the response was more along the lines of, "well it takes longer because we have to be more accurate" and when asked why fansubs were more accurate, "well EVERYTHING is reversioned and fitted to the audience..." and went on to use Serial Experiments Lain as an example... .............................................................. And that's why Funi and CR now simulcast... To fight fansubs. Because they got too damned greedy and cocky, the pirates saw it as an in, and they lost damned near everything, cause that's why bootlegging thrives. Generally, fansubs are too much work to go out and hunt around on the web for what you want, (plus probably get a virus or two if you use certain sites), wait a long ass time to download a file, watch it, and then either delete or save and move on to the next series or title. Quality may vary both in video (some groups stuck to low res for expediency, some went high res, but took forever to get because they needed to wait for someone to upload a DVD rip from japan..) and in subtitles/translations... I explain this mostly to make a point. CR and Funi have found a way to compete in that they have consistent video and subtitle quality by working with the companies in a legit fashion. They beat out the fansubbers on timing by being able to do such things as simulcast. They found that the Hulu model of streaming and advertising (yes, Hulu was the first legit streaming service of mainstream media and they were the ones to first use adverts to fund it. Back when I beta tested for them, they were REALLLLLY into selling nutrageous bars and reese's peanut butter cups) seemed a legit format of making cash that was soon being imitated. By holding back some content for "premium" members they just copied the same model everyone else was getting in on. I mean jesus... the whole thing about it being "for the love of anime and the fans"..... It's about making money. CR was a piratey pirate fansub site FFS... One of the biggest and the first to use youtube style streaming. In fact, I just recently came across an explanation of the points underneath your name that said you got XX number of points for each video you uploaded... odds are probably 10 to 1 in favor of them going legit because of how large they were and how easy they would have been to target for copyright infringement. (plus, at the time a handful of sub groups were actually wanting to go legit, get paid for their sub work, and believe it or not, most fansubbers were fans, not pirates. MOST of what you found were subs of stuff not picked up, and MOST of them would lead in with the "this fansub is NOT FOR SALE. if you paid for this you were ripped off" encoded into the title cards of their videos. You buy an old bootleg, and chances are you might find it... This is where the "ZOMG!!! ANIME FANS MUST WATCH EVERY GOD DAMNED CARTOON FROM JAPAN!!! mentality really took hold. Before the fansub ordeal, it was present but it was because there was sooooooooo god damned little and sooooooooooooo few markets. You might be lucky to find 10 discs, and half of them porn in your average video rental store. Suncoast video, columbia house, and a few niche stores used to be the only places you'd find anime, and half of that was either DBZ or porn.... Seriously.. too much porn. Even RentAnime, which modeled itself after the early days of Netflix was interesting, but as soon as they started carrying porn, well..... about a year went by and then 50% of their catalog was also porn....) All of this shaped the viewing habits of today, and all of this created a horrible mentality that has been detrimental to the industry. And what I'm saying is that once again things need to change. Let the fansubbers have the lesser quality shows. You don't need Netsuzou TRap - NTR on CR. If you have a staff of diverse fans, or, since we have members here on the forums that are absolutely crazy about sharing every fart of a possibility of a show coming out, gauge your customers for what they seem to be most excited about, and focus on those shows, you can cut out some of the series you know prior to airing don't have enough buzz to bother with licensing and put a little more money on snagging a key title or two, or, if you're REALLY into "supporting the anime creators", you can give them a bit more and hopefully with a little more funding, they can be a bit more creative with their shows and maybe create a few more original titles... You might get NeoYokio part 2 or you might get Akira, but at least with a little more cash they can take a risk like that maybe once every other year. And here I go on another side rant about the stuff in the other spoiler. it's tangental, and you can avoid this as well... Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Simulcast or binge..... Sure, simulcast will still be the better way to combat fansubs for now, but, and this is something CR,Funi, Amazon, and HiDive seem to be realizing, the older shows CAN be bought and released in bulk, and are far less likely than newer releases to have fansubs for... (it was nigh impossible for me to find a way to rewatch Shion no Ou recently for that exact reason... ) For newer anime fans, these are "new" series for them (and I've been incredibly surprised by how many newer fans seem to have an appreciation for older titles), and old fans can see old favorites. (plus, again, you have established data to see how well an old show had performed to base an idea as to how well it might do again). Use the older shows to start reinforcing a habit of binge watching again, (or dish it out in chunks, IDGAF), The main motivation between binge watching and simulcasts is the same: a desire to watch the next episode as soon as humanly possible. Simulcasts may seem like they do the job, but really binge watching is where that gratification lies. maybe with the combination, you can reverse the trends. Use your licenses better. Put more stuff on DVD for the small amount of fans that still hold out and want the disks (and you can even package it for your boxed sets and limited editions and other crap) and make some side cash off of it again. Just don't be greedy ass bastards about it again. Maybe through not being so damned greedy the fans can learn to not be so greedy as well. Because really, the industry IS suffering, and it's not in a way that's immediately obvious. The fans are a huge part of it in the fact that they demand immediate gratification. Anything less than showing the show on the exact same day as it airs in japan is considered heresy these days. The fans want things to be free... and I get it. I rallied against corporate greed above and I still stand by that, but now it's the opposite side of the spectrum. I may be paying $10 a month for my premium, but I'm also not opposed to paying a max of maybe $5 more a month. Or spending $20 on a DVD from time to time. (provided it wasn't $10 an episode.. That really pisses me off) and I AM buying licensed merch again these days... but how many fans are willing to do that right now? And without that commerce, how does any of it get made? And I've been reiterating relentlessly that the animation studios need the funding necessary to take risks. Without the funding for it, you get 400 episodes of My Hero and Black Clover and the moe stuff. And some fans may be happy with that.... But believe me when I say that people will eventually tire of it. It also means no original titles, because there's not enough room for error. That means less series like Angel Beats, B:the Beginning, Darker Than Black, Girls and Panzer, or any of the other series listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anime_with_original_screenplays More risks means being able to try out a new genre that hasn't been done to death, or a riskier adapation.. Rakugo or Erased... You know... some of the things praise because they were different. Things we don't know we want because we can't even conceive of them. Some of the things that were the reason why we got into anime in the first place..... I've read the article but I have my doubts. CR more than likely gets the majority (if not all) of our membership money which in turn is used to license more shows. I doubt they just give the money back, since they have already paid for the show. Unless its some sort of royalty payments or something. Trust me I am about as skeptical as one can get about that as well... Especially when they seem capable of funding big events. still have servers to pay for (or "server" since the damned thing crashes more often then drunken 18 year olds with their fathers' Porsche..), and I have no clue who buys their insanely expensive merchandising crap...
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serifsansserif 11274 cr points Send Message: 36 / M Offline	Permalink Reply Quote Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18 Suhkitty wrote: Three things that come to mind for me here: 1) I kind of get the feeling that you may be glorifying the past a little. In my opinion, there were lots of tropes before but since the process of putting (fan or official) subtitles on a VHS tape and shipping it around the world were slower and more costly, a lot of stuff never reached us or reached us after such delays that it didn't seem like a lot of tropey, same stuff being released at the same time. I certainly didn't realise El Hazard, Tenchi Muyo and Oh my Goddess were silly harem shows when I first saw them. Because to me it was all new at the time. Damned straight there were. And yes, I am glorifying the old days. But, having watched Tenchi and Oh My Goddess, do the tropes seem as overt or formulaic as today? And there's a fair amount of differentiation between them too. (I loved Tenchi and Oh My Goddess BTW) I do appreciate that that might be a point.... And part of that is why I'm trying to reflect on more of 2005-ish to present when I talk about this decline..... (basically back from my darker days of the fansub watching to going legit again...) 2) There is no accounting for taste. I like Violet Evergarden and a lot of other 'boring' shows (Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju) because I'm tired of the high school stuff. At least with older characters I feel like I can relate when it comes to job related issues or navigating tricky relationships (family, friends, colleagues and all other kinds). But there's still a lot of people out there who enjoy watching exactly the kind of stuff that has become so tiresome for me. yep... and those are the types of shows that I'm kinda talking about. They follow less of the typical formula and therefore are riskier to make because the audience may not be there... 3) I think Miyazaki was right when he said a lot of Manga and Anime is being created by Otaku who don't spend as much time interacting with the outside world as they do watching Anime and reading Manga. If the creators aren't going out there to find new inspiration, how will their stories be fresh or interesting? If the creators, studios and publishers choose to ignore stories with main characters who are in their 30's or older, will more money really help? I feel like there's a lack of vision when it comes to the possibilities of catering to an older Anime audience. The first part here I am at least skeptical of. You were able to name at least a few shows that seem like they step outside of the norm of otaku-ism and so on.. and in the recent history there were others... Each year less and less (which is what I'm arguing, not their nonexistence), and how do we it's not part of a cycle where those that fall into that line create the most stable sales, which in turn focuses more on finding creators like that, and so on..? The older titles are a VAST untapped market. I wish they would utilize this more... I guess what I'm saying is, if it was just about the money, surely somebody would've figured out by now that there is a growing international audience of people who grew up watching Anime and are looking for stories that fit their new stages in life. I mean, the people in the 25-50 year old demographic have jobs (those 30 and up are probably moving on to better paying functions too) so there's definitely money to be made there. But then why hasn't anyone jumped into that segment yet? Hell if I know..... We've been told for years and years and years that the anime market in japan is focused solely on its japanese audience. Maybe someone has to show up with shittons of money in their pockets to get the point across. Maybe its some deep rooted xenophobia... Maybe it's all a lie? Still I'm a little bit hopeful. The manga Hataraki Man (2004) by Moyoco Anno had more mature characters. It was adapted into an awesome Anime (2006). I found it in the Viewster catalogue but it's gone now. Unfortunately no one picked up the manga licence (as far as I could tell). Hataraki man was an awesome anime and an even better live action... A present.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mshB6VfVWwM
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Suhkitty 16034 cr points Send Message: Western Europe Offline	Permalink Reply Quote Posted 2/2/18 , edited 2/2/18 serifsansserif wrote: Still I'm a little bit hopeful. The manga Hataraki Man (2004) by Moyoco Anno had more mature characters. It was adapted into an awesome Anime (2006). I found it in the Viewster catalogue but it's gone now. Unfortunately no one picked up the manga licence (as far as I could tell). Hataraki man was an awesome anime and an even better live action... A present.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mshB6VfVWwM Thanks for the awesome gift I wish this drama was legally available somewhere. I would gladly sponsor anything made by Moyoco Anno because she's definitely not afraid to take risks. Some of her manga is clunky looking with adorable stories and some of it looks super romantic while telling a risqué or downright bizarre story. We need more (printed) localization of her work.
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dark_pride 1100 cr points Send Message: 26 / M / Philippines Offline	Permalink Reply Quote Posted 2/3/18 , edited 2/3/18 serifsansserif Let the fansubbers have the lesser quality shows. You don't need Netsuzou TRap - NTR on CR. If you have a staff of diverse fans, or, since we have members here on the forums that are absolutely crazy about sharing every fart of a possibility of a show coming out, gauge your customers for what they seem to be most excited about, and focus on those shows, you can cut out some of the series you know prior to airing don't have enough buzz to bother with licensing and put a little more money on snagging a key title or two, or, if you're REALLY into "supporting the anime creators", you can give them a bit more and hopefully with a little more funding, they can be a bit more creative with their shows and maybe create a few more original titles... You might get NeoYokio part 2 or you might get Akira, but at least with a little more cash they can take a risk like that maybe once every other year. Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Thank God, you're not working for Crunchyroll's marketing divison. Because if you were, then CR would've closed shop 5 years ago. The point is that CR is paying the licensors a fixed MG (minimum guarantee) when acquiring a show plus royalties that the show might earn while it is being watched in CR's catalog. The point is, by the time they bought the rights to "Anime A", the budget for "Anime A" has already been decided, and is most likely being worked on. Even if CR overbids for "Anime A", the anime studio themselves won't get that additional budget since the money that CR paid to went to the production committees, whose aim now is to recoup the cost. Paying more for "Anime A" would've help the production commitee recoup the cost faster, but it won't make the existing production conditions on "Anime A" any better. Unless CR itself sits on the production committee, like what Netflix is doing, then they cannot influence the production (like budget) for the anime that they normally licensed. Overbidding for "Anime A" would just pour more money to Production Committees, which most likely won't trickle down to studios. If lucky, then it might influcence the Production Committee to produce a sequel for "Anime A". For a business perspective, it's also bad. Let's say you have licensor that offers content, say "Licensor A". Suppose that "Licensor A" offers CR 3 animes, "Anime A", "Anime B" and "Anime C". Let's say "Anime B" and "Anime C" was perceived to be lesser quality anime than let's say, "Anime A". If CR would flat out tell "Licensor A", we don't want "Anime B" and "Anime C" but want only "Anime A". Do you think that "Licensor A" would want to deal with CR again next season? What if Sentai or some other licensor acquire "Anime A" (the hyped show that CR wants)? Going by your logic, CR won't still license "Anime B" or "Anime C" because those are perceived to be lesser quality. However, a better thing to do is to still license "Anime B" and "Anime C" (as much as possible) because they're aiming to build your relationship with "Licensor A". At the very least, CR could hope that at least one of "Anime B" and "Anime C" would do well on their site and find their audience. You want for Japanese studios to take a risk? They've been doing that so far. Are you not aware of shows like "ACCA", "Space Dandy", "Flip Flappers" or even "Gangsta."? Those shows I mentioned all flopped in Japan, that's why you have to realize that those high-risk shows you mention exist, yet would always be a minority per season. And to be quite honest, CR actually foregoes some of the "lesser quality" shows. Shorts like Kaito x Ansa (Nazotokine's sequel, which was streamed by CR fyi), the delay in latest "Monster Hunter Stories Ride On" episodes, and the numerous sequels to the "Milky Holmes" franchise were left in the void. Do you know those? Of course, you don't. Were they fansubbed? Of course, not, because fansubbers only cares about shows that would net them downloads. Imagine if CR is being selective with their shows back in 2012. Shorts like "Yama no Susume", "Mahou Shoujo Nante Mou Ii Desu kara.", "Piacevole", "Nyanko Days", "Ooya-san no Shishunki" won't be streamed, and probably won't be subbed, and they will miss out on good shows that the majority would pass on like "Konohana Kitan" and "Kemono Friends". The point is that those shows have their audience.
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mfritsch 38480 cr points Send Message: 32 / M / Usually right und... Online	Permalink Reply Quote Posted 2/3/18 dark_pride wrote:[...] and the numerous sequels to the "Milky Holmes" franchise were left in the void. [...] Damn now I miss Milky Holmes, I really enjoyed that show even if it was an acquired taste.
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kadmos1 67751 cr points Send Message: 31 / M / Glendale, AZ Offline	Permalink Reply Quote Posted 2/4/18 @serifsansserif: many Funi VA are anti-fansub though Greg Ayres is most vocal. YouTuber ZZslapski has 2 series of videos called "Sogen Con 2007 - fansubs panel " and "Anime Detour 2008 - Greg Ayres' panel" that features him leading the panel.
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