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Post Reply American students aren't learning the truth about slavery
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Posted 2/12/18 , edited 2/12/18

zangeif123 wrote:



"Workers"....


"The Atlantic Slave Trade" Being a worker isn't necessarily reflective of whenever or not they're there by their own volition but they outlined the means of how their labour was acquired so I'm not sure what your gripe is. I don't see people complaining about some form of revisionism when the Irish are referred to as just workers when that certainly doesn't describe the full situation of their treatment.
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Posted 2/12/18 , edited 2/12/18
Some of this I find pretty shocking, at least where I live up north I haven't heard of many of the example controversial lesson plans being given.
The only minor disagreements I have with the article are: that the Civil War was solely over slavery (since 4 of the union states still had it legalized at the time of the conflict) and that the Southern states wanted more autonomy from the Federal government, and whether or not the terminology differences make that much of a difference (Other than the most diehard of racists and race/ethnic supremacists the average person understands that slavery is wrong and that slaves are people being denied their human rights).

The one thing I do recall from my own education is the lack of tying slavery in the American Colonies with ongoing slavery and human trafficking in places like Africa and South East Asia, and heck the entire world. Such a focus/tie in might help the next generation of leaders realize that while slavery is not as wide spread or state sanctioned as it once was, it still exists and more needs to be done.


Flying_Sea_Turtle wrote:


Savagely69 wrote:

Slavery was a really bad thing in the past. Hope it never happens again.


Who said that it ever stopped. Modern day slavery doesn't care about race. They will ether kidnap or trick you into working for them (underground organizations).


Considering I have met people who have been victims of human trafficking, this is something that more people need to be aware of.
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Posted 2/12/18 , edited 2/13/18

zangeif123 wrote:



"Workers"....


They really need to separate indentured servitude and slavery because they are quite different.
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/13/18

Rujikin wrote:


Humms wrote:

.


#1) Everyone enslaved everyone in those times. It was Europeans that first banned slavery and got the ball rolling on making it illegal world wide.
#2) The arab slave trade is so easily forgotten and how cruel it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
#3) The slave trade is being revived: http://fortune.com/2017/11/29/libya-slave-trade/



So what's your point?
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/13/18
They are not learning the truth about anything in school. School is for brainwashing.
runec 
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/13/18

Humms wrote:
So what's your point?


Deflection of responsibility.

I mean, that's usually the point behind a kid invoking the "but all the other kids were doing it" defense. This also means you now get to inexplicably employ the "If all the other kids jumped off a bridge" counter-argument in a discussion about slavery.

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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/13/18

runec wrote:


Humms wrote:
So what's your point?


Deflection of responsibility.

I mean, that's usually the point behind a kid invoking the "but all the other kids were doing it" defense. This also means you now get to inexplicably employ the "If all the other kids jumped off a bridge" counter-argument in a discussion about slavery.



Actually no, I think the point is... The way people talk about slavery today, people get the impression that slavery only happened to black people, which is wrong.... Just so so wrong.

Other things to point out. White people didn't start the african slave trade, African tribes were enslaving other african tribes for thousands of years before white man ever set foot on Africa and "in part" helped ruin it. Egyptians anyone? To name the obvious.

Why do people think that white people were not victims of slavery? Barbary Pirates would raid the english coast line enslaving men, women and children and operated out of North Africa. Victims, would used for ransom, slavery, sex.... But lets not talk about that, becasue they are white and have white privilege.

So yeah, slavery is being taught wrong in schools.... White people always get the blame...
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/13/18

runec wrote:


Humms wrote:
So what's your point?


Deflection of responsibility.

I mean, that's usually the point behind a kid invoking the "but all the other kids were doing it" defense. This also means you now get to inexplicably employ the "If all the other kids jumped off a bridge" counter-argument in a discussion about slavery.




-_-

Ok, he basically just talked about slavery from then and now.

Should he be hired to teach slavery to our uneducated youth?

What's your point? I said

What am I suppose to reply with Sorry we were to lazy to pick our own fruit and cotton, or pushing sandstone, no let's get into the specifics of why we needed slaves, and why it was a bad thing.

Usually when I don't know what to respond with, it's generally because the actual response was so straight forward. I was just confused as to why there needed to be a history lesson. I'm sure you could give me a logical response as to why, and believe me I'm all ears at this point. That's my ungrateful generation talking, my apologies, I wasn't whipped as a child, just mildly smacked across the head

Probably why nobody cares about the in depth discussion about slavery. Again, if you had a logical response as to why children need to learn about the in depth discussion about slavery, go ahead.

I'm sure it's going to help pay their bills after they finished slaving for a company. Oh the cycle continues
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/14/18

SkipRat wrote:
Actually no, I think the point is... The way people talk about slavery today, people get the impression that slavery only happened to black people, which is wrong.... Just so so wrong.

Other things to point out. White people didn't start the african slave trade, African tribes were enslaving other african tribes for thousands of years before white man ever set foot on Africa and "in part" helped ruin it. Egyptians anyone? To name the obvious.

Why do people think that white people were not victims of slavery? Barbary Pirates would raid the english coast line enslaving men, women and children and operated out of North Africa. Victims, would used for ransom, slavery, sex.... But lets not talk about that, becasue they are white and have white privilege.

So yeah, slavery is being taught wrong in schools.... White people always get the blame...


Again, that's just the "all the other kids were doing it" defense. That doesn't work and like it or not slavery is an intimate part of America's history and we're talking about American history in the context of American education. Boiling it down to "white people always get the blame" is frankly absurd. Trying to defend it by saying well other people had slavery to is also absurd.

History doesn't care about your feelings.




Humms wrote:
Probably why nobody cares about the in depth discussion about slavery. Again, if you had a logical response as to why children need to learn about the in depth discussion about slavery, go ahead.


George Santayana would like a word.




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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/14/18
I think generally speaking, educational systems, which have been established and mainly controlled by the white population, shy in teaching historical truths that cast their ancestry in a bad light. I've previously read similar journal articles on the subject of slavery and colonialism and it's truly astounding how white washed history ends up being in the classrooms.

Being from Canada, I'd dare say this is true as well on the subject of First Nations and racial history.

As ugly as history may be, censorship does more harm than good. In this day and age, you still see school districts pulling certain books for making people "uncomfortable" (e.g. To Kill A Mockingbird). History, which is meant to be documented facts, ends up being only a collection of the acceptable facts in order to construct a "comfortable" narrative. This obviously leads to ignorance, which is just a sad cycle.
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/14/18

jooleyhooley wrote:

I think generally speaking, educational systems, which have been established and mainly controlled by the white population, shy in teaching historical truths that cast their ancestry in a bad light. I've previously read similar journal articles on the subject of slavery and colonialism and it's truly astounding how white washed history ends up being in the classrooms.

Being from Canada, I'd dare say this is true as well on the subject of First Nations and racial history.

As ugly as history may be, censorship does more harm than good. In this day and age, you still see school districts pulling certain books for making people "uncomfortable" (e.g. To Kill A Mockingbird). History, which is meant to be documented facts, ends up being only a collection of the acceptable facts in order to construct a "comfortable" narrative. This obviously leads to ignorance, which is just a sad cycle.


"What social attitudes were reflected in the forced removal of First Nations and Métis communities on
the arrival of Loyalists or European immigrants? (Grade 7, B1.1)
"

source http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/canworld910curr2013.pdf

I was under the impression that you did not go through the Canadian educational system but rather the British educational system?
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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/14/18

Cathugud wrote:


jooleyhooley wrote:

I think generally speaking, educational systems, which have been established and mainly controlled by the white population, shy in teaching historical truths that cast their ancestry in a bad light. I've previously read similar journal articles on the subject of slavery and colonialism and it's truly astounding how white washed history ends up being in the classrooms.

Being from Canada, I'd dare say this is true as well on the subject of First Nations and racial history.

As ugly as history may be, censorship does more harm than good. In this day and age, you still see school districts pulling certain books for making people "uncomfortable" (e.g. To Kill A Mockingbird). History, which is meant to be documented facts, ends up being only a collection of the acceptable facts in order to construct a "comfortable" narrative. This obviously leads to ignorance, which is just a sad cycle.


"What social attitudes were reflected in the forced removal of First Nations and Métis communities on
the arrival of Loyalists or European immigrants? (Grade 7, B1.1)
"

source http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/canworld910curr2013.pdf

I was under the impression that you did not go through the Canadian educational system but rather the British educational system?


No? Why would we? We are a constitutional monarchy, not a replica of the United Kingdom. We are both francophone and anglophone and have our own educational system in our 13 different provinces and territories. We have different provincial educational bodies, as well as regional districts within said structures.

I am not exactly sure why you're citing a provincial curriculum from Ontario, one of our 13 provinces and territories. It is certainly not reflective of Canadian education as a whole (we actually don't even have a national ministry that adopts a national standard, so what you're citing is irrelevant for 12/13 of our provinces and territories). Additionally, each provincial curriculum, serves as a general exoskeleton guiding teachers in what to cover so students are prepared to take provincial exams during their secondary studies. The exams are by no means detailed enough to ensure that teachers cover their respective disciplines with enough nuances that all bases are properly covered. Additionally, if you were to talk to different students residing in the same province, you'd find that their educations were not identically covered. A general theme in surveying Canadian students is that 1. "Two-thirds of students have never discussed contemporary issues of concern to Aboriginal peoples while in elementary or secondary school" and 2. "Eighty percent of students surveyed were unsatisfied with what they had learned with respect to Aboriginal studies". This stems from research by the Canadian Race Relations Foundation and Coalition for the Advancement of Aboriginal Studies in 2002 (source: https://www.crrf-fcrr.ca/en/news-a-events/media-releases/item/23925-survey-reveals-most-canadian-students-ignorant-about-aboriginal-history-and-culture), but if you do research this area, you'd see that very little has changed. It is predominantly covered especially in political science, economy and sociology in post-secondary environments.

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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/13/18


No? Why would we? We are a constitutional monarchy, not a replica of the United Kingdom. We are both francophone and anglophone and have our own educational system in our 13 different provinces and territories. We have different provincial educational bodies, as well as regional districts within said structures.


I think you misunderstood why I had an impression that you did not undertake the Canadian curriculum. I have previously seen your profile and it had "United kingdom" as its location which applied to my impression of where you received your education and that you had recently moved to Canada to which I apologise if I am wrong but you never really spoke to this and yes I am aware you have state curriculum to which I can find you each and every curriculum besides the territories referring to native history. I can link you a source to each one if you want?

BC for instance http://guides.library.ubc.ca/IndigEdK12/curriculum also https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/new-bc-school-curriculum-will-have-aboriginal-focus/article25003962/ focus on it. Albertia https://education.alberta.ca/aboriginal-studies/programs-of-study/?searchMode=3



The exams are by no means detailed enough to ensure that teachers cover their respective disciplines with enough nuances that all bases are properly covered. Additionally, if you were to talk to different students residing in the same province, you'd find that their educations were not identically covered.


True of every subject. Could you provide me some data on which subjects tend to be covered the least?



A general theme in surveying Canadian students is that 1. "Two-thirds of students have never discussed contemporary issues of concern to Aboriginal peoples while in elementary or secondary school" and 2. "Eighty percent of students surveyed were unsatisfied with what they had learned with respect to Aboriginal studies".


These are not necessarily historical gripes. These bases could of been covered from social/geography science classes. If I really wanted to poll students on knowledge of native Americans wouldn't you include a quiz on basic Native American historical knowledge?


This stems from research by the Canadian Race Relations Foundation and Coalition for the Advancement of Aboriginal Studies in 2002 (source: https://www.crrf-fcrr.ca/en/news-a-events/media-releases/item/23925-survey-reveals-most-canadian-students-ignorant-about-aboriginal-history-and-culture), but if you do research this area, you'd see that very little has changed. It is predominantly covered especially in political science, economy and sociology in post-secondary environments.


I'm glad you mentioned there's more research to be had because I've outlined a few problems with that particular data.



Edit: I deleted the part where I responded to the questionnaire. I'll respond here.

The article/report you posted was partaken in 2000-2001 by a Native American lobbying group posed to 500 students partaking their first year of university. To go further the selection was made up of students who out of their own volition did the questionnaire. Now can you see why this is possibly problematic? The questionnaire is not only not relevant (17 years + various curriculum changes country wide) but it is designed to specifically target students who are into social change/action/activism.

Here is their full report. http://www.crrf-fcrr.ca/en/resources/research-projects/334-crrf-research-reports/23526-learning-about-walking-in-beauty-placing-aboriginal-perspectives-in-canadian-classrooms I couldn't find their exact methodology on how they got the students to do the survey which leaves me quite suspicious.

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Posted 2/13/18 , edited 2/14/18
It's not easy to get the whole truth out, but hearing this is really problematic.
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Posted 2/14/18 , edited 2/14/18


Hmm, I grew up in BC and aboriginal studies was a key piece of what I learned in school. I also remember learning about how we treated Chinese immigrants we had working on the railroads. And especially how shamefully we mistreated the Japanese during WW2.
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