First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Infanticide
Posted 2/17/08 , edited 2/18/08
I thought of this for a while also due to the fact that there is an abortion thread on this forum where people tend to make abortion look like one of the most horrible crimes ever, so just to let you know that there is something even worse than that, also infanticide can be caused by abortion being illegal in certain countries and states and then I stumbled across this sites so I decided to make a thread about it.
Definition of infanticide:
1. The act of killing an infant.
2. The practice of killing newborn infants.
3. One who kills an infant.
Here are the sites from which I did quote the main piece of this thread: http://www.feministsforlife.org/taf/1997/fall/despkill.htm
http://www.feministsforlife.org/taf/1999/winter/Winter99-00.pdf

FROM ANCIENT GREEK DRAMAS such as
“Oedipus Rex” to modern tales such as “Agnes of God,” the theme of infanticide—the deliberate act of killing an infant—has played a prominent role in fictional stories. What could be more horrifying to writers, dramatists, and their audiences, than the idea of a parent
driven to the act of killing her/his own child? Throughout the history of humanity, infanticide has played a role in many cultures. It is theorized that ancient civilizations such as Rome and Carthage used infanticide (sometimes with the “excuse” of a religious sacrifice) to control their populations. In more recent times, newborn infants have been killed because family resources could not be stretched to accommodate another child, the child was disabled or ill, or the child was the “wrong” gender (a practice that has resulted in the absence of millions of females from the populations of several east Asian nations). ^.~

A few well-publicized cases:

In November 1996, college students Amy Grossberg and Brian Peterson confessed to leaving their baby boy in a dumpster near a Delaware motel.


In 1997, Melissa Drexler was dubbed the “prom mom,” when she gave birth in the restroom during her high school prom. The baby was later found dead in a trash bag.


Ronald Shanabarger confessed to marrying his wife, impregnating her, and allowing her to bond with her baby for seven months, all so he could kill the baby and get revenge on her for not cutting short her vacation to visit him when his father died.


And Marie Noe confessed to having smothered eight of her children between 1949 and 1970.


"A Bronx woman has been charged with murdering her newborn son, who was found wrapped in a plastic bag and stuffed behind a toilet in her house, police said yesterday."

The stories are horrific. Teen girls/women/partners accused of murdering their babies only minutes after they are born. Newborns who were never given names, never held or rocked - instead suffocated and abandoned moments after taking their first breath.

It is impossible to know what these girls/women were thinking, what could have driven them to such a desperate act. It is equally difficult to comprehend how the girls/women were able to conceal their pregnancies from everyone - even their families and partners - right up to the day they gave birth. Also this seems to be quite a trend for teenagers.

"It's pretty amazing how good some teenagers are at hiding the fact that they are pregnant," said Dr. Peter Harris, medical director for mental health services at Jersey Shore Medical Center. "Women will wear baggy clothes or starve themselves to limit their weight gain. In their denial, they say to themselves, 'If I don't have a great big belly, I won't be pregnant.'" According to Harris, young women will also disguise their morning sickness and go to great lengths to cover up other indications that might indicate that they were pregnant.

No one knows why these young women conceal their pregnancies and disavow the life inside them. Psychologists point to feelings of denial, fear, confusion, and isolation. To a young woman in denial, "This is a foreign body going through her, not a baby, and the bonding never occurs," said Dr. Phillip Resnick, a Case Western Reserve professor of psychiatry who coined the term neonaticide. "She doesn't think of it as her child but as an object to get rid of."
The young woman may find herself giving birth in a college dormitory, at her parents' home, or in a department store bathroom. She "gets rid of" her newborn baby by stuffing tissues down the baby's throat, strangling her, or drowning her in the toilet. The tiny body is thrown into a trash compactor, a dumpster, stashed away in a dresser drawer, or even tossed out of a window.


EDIT: Female infanticide: It’s estimated that more than 45 countries on all continents in the past five years have enabled some form of gendercide. "Female infanticide is the intentional killing of baby girls due to the preference for male babies and from the low value associated with the birth of females." This epic “disappearance” of girls in the last few decades is an underreported international scandal. Undisputed evidence exists that more than 100 million girls and women have been killed for the “crime” of being female since the 1970s and 1980s, and the problem is growing worse.

A recent study estimated that as many as 500,000 unborn girls are killed each year in India due to gender selection, and an estimated 10 million unborn girls have been killed over the past 20 years based upon gender preference. India now has the world’s lowest sex ratio because of this widespread gender selection practice. India is perhaps the only civilization that worships God in woman-form, but still doesn’t stop many countrymen from killing their own daughters. Earlier baby daughters are killed by smothering, making them lick poison, or simply by not feeding them in India and China.
In China, there has been great controversy surrounding the one-child-per-couple policy. Many couples are desperate for sons to carry forth their family name. Thus, the non-registering of baby girls; lackadaisical care and concern with respects to the girl's health; the sale to prostitution or the deposit to adoption agencies in addition to infanticide are beginning to be taxing to track. Researchers and analysts believe that they are on the rise.

In Arabia baby girls were/are buried alive the moment they emerged from their mother's womb. A quick disposal was always the easiest, to eliminate any embarrassment the child could cause the family and tribe. But due to the Quran/Islam this cases did diminish with the time.


Just to mention similar or the same things happen in nature, where animals kill their breed.
------------------------------------------------
*Discuss why you think that infanticide is okay or wrong
*Do you think that the women and girls or partners should be sentenced for that?If yes, how harsh?
*Is this really an adequate method of how to control population growth?
*Any experiences with similar cases?
*Do you think that it is okay for some cultures to practice this atrocity?(for example if the first newborn is a girl it will get killed...for cultural reasons or others such as the first child must be male so that the family name will be passed down to the next generation)
*Why would someone do that?
*What would help to stop happening crimes like that?
*Might it be acceptable in a few cases where the child is unable to live/is somehow disabled?
*Is it part of nature?

This were only examples of questions to move this into a discussion, also I wish it would not only be answers of the kind yes/no, so please reason your statement/opinion.

Flo~
22358 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / F / Nightscape
Offline
Posted 2/17/08

"Safe Haven" laws:

Texas, in 1999, became the first state to enact a "safe haven" law which permits a person -- usually a parent -- to abandon a newborn baby at a specified location. This may be a hospital, firehouse, or police station. By 2003-MAR-11, 42 states had such laws. This increased to 47 states by the end of 2006. State laws differ:
bullet Some states allow a newborn to be simply handed to a doctor or police officer.
bullet The threat of criminal prosecution may be either reduced or eliminated, depending on the state.
bullet Some state laws allow the parent to remain anonymous; others require the person who receives the newborn to attempt to establish the identity of the parent and obtain a medical history.
bullet Some states place a limit on the age of the newborn who can be abandoned. The intent of this limit is to emphasize the importance of surrendering a newborn to a place quickly where he or she can receive proper care. If a parent is hiding their baby, she or he may not be receiving proper care and food.

The Safe Place for Newborns web site has a map of the U.S. that allows you to click on your state and find out details about its safe haven law. 1

The intent of these laws is to save the lives of newborns whose mothers had concealed their pregnancy, given birth alone, and then discarding the newborn in a hazardous location -- in a trash can, dumpster, park, forest, canal, church, carwash, somebody's front door, etc. Many states passed this legislation in response to a tragedy which caused the death of a newborn. The names of these laws differ: Safe Haven, Safe Place, Baby Moses Law, Safe Arms for Newborns, Safe Delivery, Safe Surrender, etc.

Before the states passed safe haven laws, about 33 newborns were abandoned in Texas each year; 33 in Illinois; 9 or 10 in Washington State; 5 to 7 in Massachusetts, and probably similar numbers in other states. Typically, one out of three of these abandoned newborns did not survive. 2
Posted 2/17/08
But they are still doing it...for example in Germany this cases are increasing from year to year..<.<
It looks like safe Haven is not a matter for every mother...some are too ashamed, or don't believe in the promised anonymity or due to some other fucked up reasons...@.@
7716 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
77 / M / Florida, US
Offline
Posted 2/17/08
It used to be common in China. That's why they had all those news reports on China having a social crisis with the high male-female ratio and how the gay community is rising in China.
21991 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F / boring, bland ohio
Offline
Posted 2/17/08
I think it is terrible that infanticide is going on. I think a lot of the problem is a result of the lack of services for women and mothers. What really makes me mad is the killing due to gender. Why is one life valued over another just because of a Y chromasome. I heard a few years back that China tried to combat this problem by making one of their years the year of the girl.
2160 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / F / somewhere with in...
Offline
Posted 2/17/08
o.O wow.. the ways the human mind works.. its revolting >< how can u possibly have the heart to kill a baby?? even if ur under emotional or mental stress.. i'd rather u get them aborted than killing em after theyre born, but of course, the best option would be to raise the child up no matter wat
4082 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / USA
Offline
Posted 2/17/08
Thats... horrible.. I mean abortion, to me I think it's up to the mother of the baby. But now after reading some of the incidents of infanticide, I'm thinking.. 'Why?' Why would you kill your own blood? The baby you carried for 9 months.. I don't think the women or teenagers should be sentenced to jail. They should be sent into a mental institute. ( I don't know why but yeah) They shouldn't hide the fact that they're pregnant, they should get a therapist or something. I rather have them get an abortion than killing their own infant son/daughter when they take their first breath into the living world, and than a second later.. there sent to the 'next' world..
Posted 2/18/08

TenohxHaruka wrote:

Thats... horrible.. I mean abortion, to me I think it's up to the mother of the baby. But now after reading some of the incidents of infanticide, I'm thinking.. 'Why?' Why would you kill your own blood? The baby you carried for 9 months.. I don't think the women or teenagers should be sentenced to jail. They should be sent into a mental institute. ( I don't know why but yeah) They shouldn't hide the fact that they're pregnant, they should get a therapist or something. I rather have them get an abortion than killing their own infant son/daughter when they take their first breath into the living world, and than a second later.. there sent to the 'next' world..


Well, interesting is why do they hide their pregnancy? It looks like they were planning from the beginning, when they found out that they are pregnant, to get rid of it after giving birth to the child. Even though that there are now institutions for women where they can abandon the child, and this institution will take care of it, this is in America called Safe Haven laws. But it seems that many women/girls prefer to get totally rid of their offspring. But then I wonder why they don't abort it right away? Why would they carry on a child, that they don't want, for nine months and kill it afterwards while they could have gotten rid of it so much earlier? Perhaps they are ashamed to go to a doctor/gynecologist and ask for an abortion. Or some other odd reason.

Flo~
63 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / F / Ellenton, FL
Offline
Posted 2/18/08

Safuranmodoki wrote:

o.O wow.. the ways the human mind works.. its revolting >< how can u possibly have the heart to kill a baby?? even if ur under emotional or mental stress.. i'd rather u get them aborted than killing em after theyre born, but of course, the best option would be to raise the child up no matter wat



i couldnt have said it better myself....i must be really dense because i never even heard of the term infancide, and I didn't know it happened that often. Wooow what has our world come to?
1771 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / Malaysia
Offline
Posted 2/18/08
Maybe they are confuse about what to do. But i wonder why they dont do something earlier. Since they already give birth why wanna kill it =..= How could they do such thing. No sense of humanity at all T.T Baby is cute.......
1902 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / F / most likely in bed.
Offline
Posted 2/18/08
I think sometimes it can also be due to postnatal depression but really some people are just....! Some people just live in denial and pretend it's not happening and when it does happen they won't to get rid of it as fast as possible so they can carry on pretending nothing happened. For someone to actually take notice of any of the available options would mean that they are accepting the fact that's it's happening.
15332 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/18/08
its inhumane and evil..i disrespect ppl who do such things
78167 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Japan
Offline
Posted 2/18/08

MidnightZorya wrote:

I thought of this for a while also due to the fact that there is an abortion thread on this forum where people tend to make abortion look like one of the most horrible crimes ever, but in comparison to infanticide it is not that terrible of an act (at least in my opinion).


Be careful... you're treading on thin ice with this statement. It does not make sense to use another "evil" act to lessen or, for lack of a better term, "justify" the actions of another "evil" act... in other words, you can't say it's not bad to steal from the cookie jar, when other people are robbing from the bank.


Anyway, I understand your point, and I will agree that infanticide IS a much graver act, simply because the definition of life is already CLEAR CUT, meaning any nuances regarding "when life begins" is completely out of the debate. However, this should not be grounds for saying that "abortion is thus more tolerable, as compared to infanticide."

Placing the two side-by-side will not beget any fruitful discussion, since both of them are arguments on their own. For the sake of discussion in this thread, I suggest people not to compare the two, and use one or the other to justify one over the other.
Posted 2/18/08

edsamac wrote:
Be careful... you're treading on thin ice with this statement. It does not make sense to use another "evil" act to lessen or, for lack of a better term, "justify" the actions of another "evil" act... in other words, you can't say it's not bad to steal from the cookie jar, when other people are robbing from the bank.


Well I am aware of that. Also I am not trying to justify abortion in itself, but I was actually just trying to make it clear for people that there is not only abortion but also infanticide, also infanticide is many times practiced also due to the fact that in certain places abortion is not allowed.
Well in my opinion abortion is the better option than carrying the child out and kill it afterwards, this is my point of view, so I might personally say that abortion is more tolerable than infanticide, as you said yourself

the definition of life is already CLEAR CUT, meaning any nuances regarding "when life begins" is completely out of debate

With that I don't want to say that I support abortion, but it is more acceptable for me than killing a newborn. I suppose that everyone has their own views on that biased by their morals. <.<



Placing the two side-by-side will not beget any fruitful discussion, since both of them are arguments on their own. For the sake of discussion in this thread, I suggest people not to compare the two, and use one or the other to justify one over the other.

I actually didn't want that people will use one to excuse/justify one act. Maybe I should edit the first post and make it a bit more neutral.

Flo~
1433 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / New York
Offline
Posted 2/18/08

MidnightZorya wrote:

*Discuss why you think that infanticide is okay or wrong
*Do you think that the women and girls or partners should be sentenced for that?If yes, how harsh?
*Is this really an adequate method of how to control population growth?
*Any experiences with similar cases?
*Do you think that it is okay for some cultures to practice this atrocity?(for example if the first newborn is a girl it will get killed...for cultural reasons or others such as the first child must be male so that the family name will be passed down to the next generation)
*Why would someone do that?
*What would help to stop happening crimes like that?
*Might it be acceptable in a few cases where the child is unable to live/is somehow disabled?
*Is it part of nature?

This were only examples of questions to move this into a discussion, also I wish it would not only be answers of the kind yes/no, so please reason your statement/opinion.

Flo~


*Since it's murder of another human, it's against the law. I would like to point out that 1.) killing a baby is no worse than killing an adult, and 2.) killing one's own blood is no worse than killing someone unrelated. Actually, I might even argue that killing a baby is not as bad as killing an adult because it hasn't formed the same connections, relationships, and meanings in life. Better or worse, however, it is still murder.
*Yes, on the grounds that it is illegal.
*On a large scale, sure. I don't think most people actually want to kill their children for the sake of the population, though.
*No experiences.
*Yes, provided the killing does not involve physical pain. I do not value the human life in and of itself, but I do care about the pleasure-pain principle.
*Many reasons, though a common one is probably being unprepared/not wanting to face it. There is also a lot of social stigma around it for certain people, and they find that they cannot deal with the shame, anger, etc.
*Nothing.
*Not in the eyes of the law, but it's acceptable in my eyes.
*Everything is a part of nature, but you're probably just asking if other animals do it. They do.
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.