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Post Reply Do people with unpopular opinions have the right to make money?
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:

it depends on what those opinions are, If they look down on people with disabilities and hate people of any ethnicity, like Asians, black people, Native Americans, Or gasp, even white people, they should not be allowed to make money


I am curious about why this metric is somehow more worthy than any other. I understand the reasoning is that holding some view like that is assumed to be morally abominable and harmful to society.

However, I don't think children of racists or ethnocentrists are more likely to drop out of school, abuse drugs, have illegitimate children, steal, assault, or murder than anyone else. By comparison, children of divorced or unwed single mothers are more likely to do those things. Given that, then wouldn't it be more reasonable to say what you said, only about single mothers or divorced couples, moreso than ethnocentrists or racists?


lolwut?
would'nt that just make the child more like to commit crime because, his disfunctional family is poorer? that would be counterproductive.
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/22/18

Koji_Protolight wrote:



lolwut?
would'nt that just make the child more like to commit crime because, his disfunctional family is poorer? that would be counterproductive.


Well no, first of all poverty does not cause crime. Poor families that are working and bring in $18,000 a year are not more likely to be involved in crime. Families that get $18,000 a year as welfare handouts are more likely to be involved in crime. I mean think about it: if poverty causes immorality and criminality then logically wealth causes virtue and lawfulness --- but we don't venerate the wealthy as saints, do we? "Donald Trump is a billionaire --- clearly he would never commit adultery!"

Even if that myth were true --which it is not -- then your own thing doesn't make any sense. Punishing a racist by driving him into poverty would only backfire -- instead of just a racist, you'd now have a racist and a criminal.

But that myth is a myth. Poverty does not cause crime. The whole idea is moral idiocy: being poor makes you evil; being wealthy makes you virtuous. Wait? Then why do monks take vows of poverty? Duh.


"Hey guys that guy is a racist! Let's turn him into a criminal by boycotting him and destroying his livelihood!" Wait, wuh?
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/22/18

karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:



lolwut?
would'nt that just make the child more like to commit crime because, his disfunctional family is poorer? that would be counterproductive.


Well no, first of all poverty does not cause crime. Poor families that are working and bring in $18,000 a year are not more likely to be involved in crime. Families that get $18,000 a year as welfare handouts are more likely to be involved in crime. I mean think about it: if poverty causes immorality and criminality then logically wealth causes virtue and lawfulness --- but we don't venerate the wealthy as saints, do we?

Even if that myth were true --which it is not -- then your own thing doesn't make any sense. Punishing a racist by driving him into poverty would only backfire -- instead of just a racist, you'd now have a racist and a criminal.

But that myth is a myth. Poverty does not cause crime.




the reason they on on wellfare is because of poverty
also when communities are wealthier with good economic development without racial discrimination. they are not as violent as this story proves
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

Koji_Protolight wrote:


the reason they on on wellfare is because of poverty


So what about the other family, that is likewise in poverty, but does not receive welfare and is working? They both bring in $18000 a year, so they both meet the definition of poverty. Why is one criminal but the other not?

Also, what about your initial claim: that we should punish sinners by turning them into criminals with this bizarre "poverty causes crime so boycott!" thing?

If poverty causes corruption and lawlessness, then logically wealth causes virtue and lawfulness. That's just stupid. Sheer moral idiocy. I mean, what about monks and vows of poverty? Aren't they just asking to be corrupted?

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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:


the reason they on on wellfare is because of poverty


So what about the other family, that is likewise in poverty, but does not receive welfare and is working? They both bring in $18000 a year, so they both meet the definition of poverty. Why is one criminal but the other not?

Also, what about your initial claim: that we should punish sinners by turning them into criminals with this bizarre "poverty causes crime so boycott!" thing?

If poverty causes corruption and lawlessness, then logically wealth causes virtue and lawfulness. That's just stupid. Sheer moral idiocy. I mean, what about monks and vows of poverty? Aren't they just asking to be corrupted?



I edited my post to add a story that demonstrates that yes, actually wealth does reduce crime...
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/22/18

Koji_Protolight wrote:


I edited my post to add a story that demonstrates that yes, actually wealth does reduce crime...


For every edge case you provide we can find a thousand cases of wealth corrupting people. Is buying off politicians a virtue now? "Give money to politicians to make them better people!"

Apparently, the love of money isn't the root of all evils -- it's the root of all virtues!

Again -- if a guy is racist, and poverty causes corruption ---wouldn't depriving him of his livelihood backfire? You keep dodging the question.

If wealth makes us better people, then shouldn't you seek out racists to give them your business? Look: it's obvious you don't even buy your own bullshit, so just drop it.
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/22/18

karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:


I edited my post to add a story that demonstrates that yes, actually wealth does reduce crime...


For every edge case you provide we can find a thousand cases of wealth corrupting people. Is buying off politicians a virtue now? "Give money to politicians to make them better people!"


I was pointing out that in general crime especially violent crime among the poor decreases that does not mean that I said that crime involving politicians would decreass

also we are going off topic so I will not be responding to you
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18
Many scholars, scientists and general public figures were unpopular or held opinions that were contrary to popular belief at the time of their conception, I don't think I'd feel comfortable regardless of how reprehensible an opinion is of restricting them from contributing to society. By restricting the opinions I don't agree with I may be robbing a society of someone who is fairly contributive, a popular mythos is that Steve Jobs was an asshole, whether he was or wasn't doesn't matter but I'm glad someone like him had existed and in our current climate it'd be easy to see why someone like a controversial figure like Steve Jobs would barely be able to get away with the things that he may of gotten away with for a long time.

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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18
To make money? Yes if they can.

Each of us have the right to control what we support, but we have no right to demand others to not support something just because we disagree with it or see it morally wrong.

In that case the onus is on us to provide a strong enough argument that people who do give them money, don't. If we can't do that, then obviously our logic as to why, or ability to argue our case, was weaker and... well, better improve that argument for the next time.
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

Koji_Protolight wrote:



also we are going off topic so I will not be responding to you


Oh OK so, back to topic: why would destroying anybody's livelihood be a good idea, if poverty just causes crime? I mean, if someone is ethnocentric -- then wouldn't destroying his livelihood just backfire?
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:



also we are going off topic so I will not be responding to you


Oh OK so, back to topic: why would destroying anybody's livelihood be a good idea, if poverty just causes crime? I mean, if someone is ethnocentric -- then wouldn't destroying his livelihood just backfire?


no it would not backfire if he or she becomes homeless
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

Koji_Protolight wrote:

no it would not backfire if he or she becomes homeless


But that would likely turn him into a criminal, like you said, right?
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:

no it would not backfire if he or she becomes homeless


But that would likely turn him into a criminal, like you said, right?


it is only likely to be minor offenses like shoplifting
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

Koji_Protolight wrote:


karatecowboy wrote:


Koji_Protolight wrote:

no it would not backfire if he or she becomes homeless


But that would likely turn him into a criminal, like you said, right?


it is only likely to be minor offenses like shoplifting


Oh OK so the solution to racism is to turn them into shoplifters.
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Posted 2/22/18 , edited 2/23/18

karatecowboy wrote:

Oh OK so the solution to racism is to turn them into shoplifters.


better then letting them enjoy a good life where they could potentially discriminate against others

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