Post Reply What is the point of allowing reviews before the show is even concluded?
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Posted 4/6/18 , edited 4/6/18
I can't do markup on topic titles, but the emphasis (bold/underline/whatever you want) on "reviews".

For instance, Anidb has temporary ratings for airing stuff, and but we generally don't see reviews for something before it's concluded. I think this is a good system. I think there's a place for extended commentary on a progressing show, but calling that a "review" is somewhat asinine. You can't really review a package if you've only seen 1/12th or 1/26th of the contents (unless those contents have black mold growing out of them, but let's put that situation aside). This has been annoying me for a while. That's why anidb simply has a comment section where you can just see other people's ratings. That's plenty, really. Providing extended and continuous commentary on a show has a place, but, again, calling that a "review"... is really silly.

- Earlier posts snowball into having disproportionate representation of scorings (default sorting is by helpfulness... which helpfulness as a concept is something I hate too, but let's just put that aside).
- Earlier reviews don't even necessarily have to change to stay at the top. Case in point... this is kind of pathetic...
- Later opinions of the full package (generally more valuable) get buried.

There are probably other detriments, but those three are enough to really make the entire system kind of broken and nearly useless.

Just three of probably many possible ideas:
1. Separate into temporary/airing reviews and full reviews.
2. Reset all helpfulness ratings for each review as soon as a show concludes (the lazy person's way out).
3. Simply copy anidb's system and give an easier to access forum for each show for ongoing discussions (possibly showing current ratings), and disable reviews until the show is concluded.

Any one of those would make reviews less of a joke than they are at the moment. Well, IMO.
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Posted 4/6/18 , edited 4/6/18

stolemyowncar wrote:

I can't do markup on topic titles, but the emphasis (bold/underline/whatever you want) on "reviews".

For instance, Anidb has temporary ratings for airing stuff, and but we generally don't see reviews for something before it's concluded. I think this is a good system. I think there's a place for extended commentary on a progressing show, but calling that a "review" is somewhat asinine. You can't really review a package if you've only seen 1/12th or 1/26th of the contents (unless those contents have black mold growing out of them, but let's put that situation aside). This has been annoying me for a while. That's why anidb simply has a comment section where you can just see other people's ratings. That's plenty, really. Providing extended and continuous commentary on a show has a place, but, again, calling that a "review"... is really silly.

- Earlier posts snowball into having disproportionate representation of scorings (default sorting is by helpfulness... which helpfulness as a concept is something I hate too, but let's just put that aside).
- Earlier reviews don't even necessarily have to change to stay at the top. Case in point... this is kind of pathetic...
- Later opinions of the full package (generally more valuable) get buried.

There are probably other detriments, but those three are enough to really make the entire system kind of broken and nearly useless.

Just three of probably many possible ideas:
1. Separate into temporary/airing reviews and full reviews.
2. Reset all helpfulness ratings for each review as soon as a show concludes (the lazy person's way out).
3. Simply copy anidb's system and give an easier to access forum for each show for ongoing discussions (possibly showing current ratings), and disable reviews until the show is concluded.

Any one of those would make reviews less of a joke than they are at the moment. Well, IMO.


Personally, I've always seen any 'review' system as "my personal opinion as far as it goes". In that sense, I was able to give a review on my car before I'd driven it more than a few miles. Similarly, I usually give an anime 3 episodes to determine if it's something I'm willing to keep following or not. Sometimes more - I know I recently gave a review on the (at that time) uncompleted Record of Grancrest War, because of an event in the show that made it so I would not watch any more of it. I don't think it's unfair of me to give a review of "at episode 9, I have decided that I won't be watching this any more", but it would be kind of unfair to make me wait until the show has completed airing before making such a review. Especially if it turns into something like Case Closed, with its several hundred episodes and counting.

As I said, though, that's my personal opinion. Honestly, I tend not to rely on reviews for one reason - they're self selecting. Most people, if they just like something, won't leave a review no matter if it's after it's over or while it's going. Some people always will, some people never will. So reviews tend towards mostly positive or extremely negative just as an aspect of human nature. I agree in part, once something starts to snowball, people don't like to look like they're disagreeing, so they tend not to leave reviews.

All that said, I'm not sure why any one review system is more of a joke than any other. If you prefer anidb's way, rely on theirs. Copying theirs just means similar styles end up here, too. At least with two systems, two styles appear, giving a choice, right? This one does give the option of sorting by newest if that's what you're interested in, which will tend towards stuff post-completion if you check the page after the show has finished, at least, so they won't be buried for you if that's what you're after.
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Posted 4/6/18
I think its fine to complain about something if you want to, but you should realize that's what you're doing. If you went to a professional for a professional review on something, and he said that he didn't even finish his work, you'd probably be looking for someone else's opinion. "I can't like this" doesn't really help anyone imo, because everyone likes different things... no matter what your reasons are...

A review should IMO always be an extremely guiding and helpful analysis that is actually worth reading, and that's the problem with a bunch of people who only watch 3 episodes of an anime going "I didn't want to see the rest". Good for you, but how does that help anyone? For example, if I had read your complaint (so-called review) of grancrest, I may have not made it as far as I did, and I'm glad I did because I really enjoy the show. (I don't do the silly 3 episode rule thing. I stop watching a show when it actually stops being fun to watch, no matter when that happens).

Its TOTALLY fine to have a complaining and whining section, and they more services SHOULD, people need a place to vent their feelings about products, services, and media. (youtube comments come to mind...) but you SHOULD NOT BE CALLING these reviews. You are not a professional, and you haven't even finished the story. Do you know how many shows get AMAZING near their climax? How many books become amazing near the final chapters? (its almost story-telling 101 for content to be like this... you'll miss out on these amazing stories using this silly, ridiculous and foolish 3 episode rule, though I DO understand not everyone has a lot of free time, you also need to realize that anime isn't going anywhere, and you shouldn't feel like you need to be in a hurry to watch it all, RIGHT NOW).
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Posted 4/6/18 , edited 4/6/18

MakotoKamui wrote:

Personally, I've always seen any 'review' system as "my personal opinion as far as it goes". In that sense, I was able to give a review on my car before I'd driven it more than a few miles. Similarly, I usually give an anime 3 episodes to determine if it's something I'm willing to keep following or not. Sometimes more - I know I recently gave a review on the (at that time) uncompleted Record of Grancrest War, because of an event in the show that made it so I would not watch any more of it. I don't think it's unfair of me to give a review of "at episode 9, I have decided that I won't be watching this any more", but it would be kind of unfair to make me wait until the show has completed airing before making such a review. Especially if it turns into something like Case Closed, with its several hundred episodes and counting.


Car analogies usually suck. Actually analogies in general usually suck. Cars and shows are completely different. Anyway the poster directly after you kind of addressed this paragraph pretty well. One of my solutions was also keeping a temporary rating area, so yeah you can still leave your "I didn't watch past X amount" opinion. That option is still there. But if you plan to make that into a permanent review after the show is concluded, you should have a pretty thorough stylistic analysis that lead to this conclusion. Reviews that come after a show is over and airing show reviews are two completely different beings. In one you are evaluating a whole package. In another, you're evaluating transient moments. In a sense, it's like one is an integral while the other is a derivative function that will eventually integrate into that whole.



As I said, though, that's my personal opinion. Honestly, I tend not to rely on reviews for one reason - they're self selecting. Most people, if they just like something, won't leave a review no matter if it's after it's over or while it's going. Some people always will, some people never will. So reviews tend towards mostly positive or extremely negative just as an aspect of human nature. I agree in part, once something starts to snowball, people don't like to look like they're disagreeing, so they tend not to leave reviews.


Not really, I regularly post unpopular opinions, and so do other people. Anyone that considers themselves to be a critic can't really go without giving their opinion. I also don't give a crap about the helpfulness system and how much people agree with me... or my karma on reddit, I could not give two @$#!s if that tanked.

The real issue with snowballing is more that it doesn't go away... which leads to that Acca example I posted. Where one user hasn't changed it since the show STARTED airing. How the heck is a transient opinion piece helping detail the show and its strengths/weaknesses for future audiences? That's the whole point of a review. Time is valuable. People read reviews to figure out how to best allocate it. So how does the equivalent of "oh I'm liking this so far", posted on probably freaking EPISODE 1 help anyone decide on a show? Then what? They have to go digging through the rest of them to find one that's actually decent and evaluates the entire show? It's crap. It's a terrible solution. One that can cost people in multiple ways. Either someone misses out on something, or wastes their time viewing something. No one really wins.



All that said, I'm not sure why any one review system is more of a joke than any other. If you prefer anidb's way, rely on theirs. Copying theirs just means similar styles end up here, too.


Now this is where things get weird. I made this post because I believe that as far as circulating good quality reviews, anidb's system is objectively superior. It's not the only one of it's kind. Rather, it's Crunchyroll's system that's completely bizarre and nonsensical. Letting old, transient ratings spiral upwards (and stay there) until they're the most widely seen opinion on a show... is extremely, extremely bizarre. It's not a review. It's nothing close to a review. It's a passing comment that's being allowed to stay up as a review. There are any number of a million systems that are better than this, and the whole reason it's relevant is because this site is a major distribution point for content. Moreso now that we've absorbed a lot of Funi's library. Having a section which is essentially almost a waste of space tacked onto every show is kind of silly.



At least with two systems, two styles appear, giving a choice, right? This one does give the option of sorting by newest if that's what you're interested in, which will tend towards stuff post-completion if you check the page after the show has finished, at least, so they won't be buried for you if that's what you're after.


As I said it's kind of a pointless choice when one option is clearly superior. Unfortunately the location it is situated makes it hard to use. And no, sorting by "new" is definitely not what I want. That's essentially saying I want a random helping of crap to dig through to find something of value. Helpfulness has SOME purpose, the problem is that this purpose is swiftly taken away as time goes on due to the snowballing of popular posts and the burying of new ones. A vetting system can be valuable, but its current implementation is ironically working against it.
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Posted 4/6/18 , edited 4/6/18
Yeah, I've said it myself before and I still find myself agreeing with the OP here. CR already does track which episodes you've watched and how much of them you've watched so it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to at least require, say, at least 6 episodes of a series watched before you can enter a review. Or just have reviews from prior to a certain date (the airing date of episode 9, for example) essentially filtered out at a certain point in time.

If someone wants to post their early season thoughts on a series, even if it's because they want to unequivocally state that they are not going to watch the show ever again, they can do so in the already existing forum discussion threads which are made for pretty much every show out there (or if they haven't, the user can make one of their own). There is no need (or use) for the reviews section to be used for that.

Some people make the argument that only completely negative or positive reviews get posted and so the reviews section is basically useless anyway, or that you should go someone else for "real" reviews. The thing is, the reason so few people post quality reviews here and make proper use of the system is because the system itself is broken. Just because there are "better" places to post reviews or to read reviews doesn't mean that CR should just give up and not change their own system. In fact, if they aren't going to change it I'd rather they just remove user reviews all together.
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