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Post Reply "We Have Accepted Mediocrity"
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18

tgrall_345 wrote:

Old head takes are my least favorite out of any kind of takes. As a big sports fan you hear constant old head takes especially regarding the NBA. So tiring. Even on here you see threads questioning how anime is going in the trash in pretty frequent intervals. Times change. Just live your best life. (You don’t have to be old to have an old head take either.)


He's literally your age lmao.

I agree on oldheads, but about music, specifically hip hop lol.

Anime.... I agree with him. There is a lot of horseshit anime being pumped out today, but there was a lot of horseshit anime being pumped out back then too. Same with every form of entertainment, most of it is bad, very few are any good if fantastic.

I'm just gonna go back to watching Gunbuster like the good old pretentious elitist that I am.
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/10/18
That video is just way too long for what it has to say, and I'm not usually a TLDR guy. It's sort of funny how so many of the Youtube anime community complain about the anime development system while simultaneously making their living off of same system (and, sadly, making a better living than many people slaving away actually making anime).

There are definitely issues with the way anime is produced these days, and it would be great to see things change, but that's really a separate issue from whether anime now is better or worse than it used to be. As I usually say in threads like this one, far too many people have far too rose coloured glasses about the "old days" of anime. It's easy to only remember the "classics" when they were essentially curated for you and when you're hooked on nostalgia.

So, why not answer one Youtube video with another. The creator in this case is Anthony Fantano (aka The Needledrop) and the subject is music, but the take he has is just as applicable here:
https://youtu.be/lTCPG98DUNo?t=7m55s

And, heck, it's only a couple of minutes long as opposed to nearly half an hour.
xxJing 
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18
I accept mediocrity as my lord and savior.
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18
I agree, I think we've accepted mediocrity in most all facets of life, and we don't even know it in a lot of cases cause we only know a smol part of what either something is or what it could be. However you know where we have really accepted mediocrity? In hentai. Like wtf Japanese guys, ya can't just bust a nut to any old anime pixels! Quit being pseudo elitists who denounce the filth that is the 3D form and actually act like a connoisseur of 2D and put some quality and effort into your smut. OMG I just want to watch a good hentai where I can cry (not only from the story, but from my comparison of it to my own life and how I'm a piece of trash), bust a nut to some good artistic visuals, all while listening to the sweet music of the VA's. Honestly has hentai ever been good? I'm not sure it has! But I need something to stave me off till VR comes in.
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/10/18

PandaSamaBoi wrote:


tgrall_345 wrote:

Old head takes are my least favorite out of any kind of takes. As a big sports fan you hear constant old head takes especially regarding the NBA. So tiring. Even on here you see threads questioning how anime is going in the trash in pretty frequent intervals. Times change. Just live your best life. (You don’t have to be old to have an old head take either.)


He's literally your age lmao.

I agree on oldheads, but about music, specifically hip hop lol.

Anime.... I agree with him. There is a lot of horseshit anime being pumped out today, but there was a lot of horseshit anime being pumped out back then too. Same with every form of entertainment, most of it is bad, very few are any good if fantastic.

I'm just gonna go back to watching Gunbuster like the good old pretentious elitist that I am.


I have seen people round my age obsessed with older anime. I think the term "oldhead" refers to these individual regardless of age.
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/10/18

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


PandaSamaBoi wrote:


tgrall_345 wrote:

Old head takes are my least favorite out of any kind of takes. As a big sports fan you hear constant old head takes especially regarding the NBA. So tiring. Even on here you see threads questioning how anime is going in the trash in pretty frequent intervals. Times change. Just live your best life. (You don’t have to be old to have an old head take either.)


He's literally your age lmao.

I agree on oldheads, but about music, specifically hip hop lol.

Anime.... I agree with him. There is a lot of horseshit anime being pumped out today, but there was a lot of horseshit anime being pumped out back then too. Same with every form of entertainment, most of it is bad, very few are any good if fantastic.

I'm just gonna go back to watching Gunbuster like the good old pretentious elitist that I am.


I have seen people round my age obsessed with older anime. I think the term "oldhead" refers to these individual regardless of age.


True. It applies to anyone of any age. Even me, I've got an old head mindset admittedly lol. At least when it comes to anime and film. Probably music too.
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18

auroraloose wrote:

I initially wrote a lot more, but it was way too mean. An amended version will suffice:

I almost never watch these videos when people post them, because I know beforehand that they're stupid. This time I did, because I was rankled: Digibro is a YouTube anime critic, a perpetually-baked college dropout who apparently lives off his Patreon. He doesn't know the first thing about criticism, given that his account of anime's history completely fails every test put by a real historical criticism and puts so much stock in individual intent. Real critics have better things to do than make YouTube content. Hearing people whine about how this guy is elitist because he accurately assessed their situation makes me want to vomit. Get over yourselves; anime is mediocre, you like mediocrity, and apparently so does Digibro when it comes to analysis. If you want to signal to the world that you like something more valuable, put in the work.


I for one, am interested in what you have to say. That, and I had no idea the world rankle was a term. Do not mind me, I cherish words and wish to expand my verbiage.

I am not so sure what exactly you are referencing by individual intent, as I have yet to watch a single video. I read it as a reference to how creator intent does not necessarily translate to a point to be made, or a quality product, to which I agree on some facets. Namely, the motivations of the few that put out such creative works doesn't necessarily translate to a "sensible" or an "expected" historical influence.

Also, to express irritation, I hold rancor to the usage of the term "influential" as jargon for quality. At least, how I care to define such things. Such works can be influential, but can also be influential in a movement many believe that is of lesser quality or worth, to use those terms lightly.

I apologize for my misunderstandings.

Alternatively, it also seems you are irritated when people go beyond the basis of criticism to speak of a history they are entirely ignorant of?
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/10/18
Don't forget it's all a question of money and investors do not like risks. So animation studio will try to find a genre that will work and milk it until it's fell out of grace. If they continue, it's because it's selling enough. That's why series like Naruto was plague by filler episode so they can milk it until the fans get disgusted. It happened to me at the end of Shippuden. The story was really good until the fillers came and stall the story. I guess they will do the same with Boruto...

So, maybe it's better sometime to have short anime series with a clear ending. It's hard to find a good new idea and the are a lot of copycats.

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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18
Well, I think something that's important to do is actually clarify what we MEAN by 'mediocrity'. Is mediocrity a lack of results, or a lack of effort? Because there's a BIG difference between the two.
I've reviewed a lot of anime here, and in all honesty, you know what affects me the most about whether or not I like a series besides theme? When a series knows and accepts what it is. Let's take short-lived 'mediocre' series 'Hundred' for example. Here's a big ol' pile of cliches all rolled up into one ultimately forgettable story... but you know what? I didn't hate it. I appreciated it for the fact that it KNEW that it was a b-grade series and it went for the gusto. It didn't just use a few tropes, it used ALL the tropes.
I liken it to getting junk food from your favorite non-chain diner. You KNOW it's just a burger and fries, but you can't help but smile when you see the cooks working the fryers making their own patties, cutting their own fries and serving that greasy junk food in an old-fashioned red and white checkered wrapper. It's 'mediocre' food, but it's prepared with actual effort, and that's what separates it from a chain restaurant reheating pre-made patties and haphazardly tossing pre-seasoned frozen fries into a fryer.
What mediocrity means to ME is laziness. We shouldn't condemn a series for being cheesy shlock if that's what the production intended to make, it's when an author or production promises high drama or epic conflicts and then can't be bothered to deliver, instead shrugging and saying 'eh, good enough', THAT'S what deserves to be called out.
Let's take another example, "In Another World With My Smartphone". Should this series be condemned because the protagonist just breezes through everything and is never under any real threat? Of course not! At no point did the story EVER give the impression that it was going to deliver a deep, dramatic adventure. It's a shallow power fantasy and that's all it ever claimed to be. It's not the 'beginning of the end for anime', it's just serving its demographic... there's nothing wrong with that.
What people like is always subjective, there's no right or wrong when it comes to what you like. Some people look at Bob Ross as a hack artist, others regard him as a visionary that brought painting to the masses. There is no wrong answer, but what cannot be denied no matter how you look at it is that Bob Ross worked hard even if his paintings are just happy little bushes and trees... and that's what matters. Not that everyone tries to be a genius, but that they at least put forth the effort, even if the result isn't always a masterpiece.
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18
I honestly thought Smartphone was the epitome of laziness in structure. It was creatively bankrupted in it's narrative, eschewing doing anything well for... What now? The suspense is non-existent. The solutions to anything were just written at the last minute solutions Touya had. The designs of the characters were boring, the character themselves never evolve beyond barely used tropes, with the action being subpar. I see nothing done well.

Now that is out of the way, I agree that intent should be considered to avoid inherent genre hate. However, I don't think intent should be a wholesale shield against narratives of the work, especially when the criticism belies a movement in the industry that is undesirable.

On the other hand, I disagree on effort as wholly being an indicator. To be trenchant, I think laziness is a perfectly apt complaint, but I don't believe hard work to be a praise I would give to a creative work. I prefer end results, as they are to me.

Sorry, sleepy at the moment, on phone. Will elaborate tomorrow.
nDroae 
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/10/18
I see a lot of people in this thread saying "But what about these amazing recent anime?" I don't think that's the point. I really enjoyed watching SAO, Smartphone, Death March, and (currently) Uma Musume. That's what it means to "accept mediocrity."


ronchester44 wrote:
(...)this view is entirely subjective and should be taken objectively as Digibro (as always) is claiming he is the only sensible person in this scenario, he isn't, this is a matter of perception and individual taste

Digibro: "'OBJECTIVELY GOOD' DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roxzqaq0IMs


soulsinferno wrote:


DevinKuska wrote:

#5 The author erroneously thinks the anime gives a f**k what he thinks as a non Japanese consumer.


Exactly this, us American's are ignored so those elitists anime reviewers on YouTube needs to seriously know their damn place.

Where we clearly come in right now is when we support CR co-productions by paying to watch them here. /forumtopic-1009327/anime-co-producedproduced-by-crunchyroll Some of these are widely considered to be excellent, while others are considered trash. Accepting, watching and supporting the "bad" ones is "accepting mediocrity."

"Japan's seemingly-inevitable tumble off the economic cliff in the next few decades is a constant concern for every Japanese business, especially one such as anime, which still depends heavily on the domestic market to make its money, and on domestic talent to get produced. The anime industry is trying to head this disaster off at the pass. Both the government and the major companies have invested a great amount of resources into expanding the international market, especially into China and into English speaking parts of the world. The last five years have seen an epoch-making shift in how much revenue comes in from places like Crunchyroll and Chinese streaming platforms, versus Japanese fans. I haven't seen recent numbers, but it's generally thought that overseas sales are now as important to a show's bottom line as domestic fans -- perhaps moreso."
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-10-17/.107730

"Business is booming in the anime industry right now. Streaming revenues from North America and China have more than offset declines in DVD/Blu-ray revenues. However, this rise in cashflow is not trickling down to the actual anime production companies, who have spent decades cutting their costs to the bone in order to stay competitive. Rather than pay more for production, the producers on the Production Committees are using the money to make more shows." http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2017-05-26/.116584


auroraloose wrote:
Hearing people whine about how this guy is elitist because he accurately assessed their situation makes me want to vomit. Get over yourselves; anime is mediocre, you like mediocrity(....)

Agreed!
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/9/18

tgrall_345 wrote:

Old head takes are my least favorite out of any kind of takes. As a big sports fan you hear constant old head takes especially regarding the NBA. So tiring. Even on here you see threads questioning how anime is going in the trash in pretty frequent intervals. Times change. Just live your best life. (You don’t have to be old to have an old head take either.)


I know that people don't like reading threads but it's literally been mentioned many times that he has an entire video about how oldheads are wrong and anime is not getting worse ... lol

The only reason he even said the 80's was the best time in anime was because it was when budgets allowed for more experimental stuff to be made and that started to decrease as anime became a bigger industry in a lower economy ...

Digibro's favorite time period in anime is most definitely not the 80's, it's probably some year in the 2000's in fact.

I mean this is a dude who's favorite shows are Log Horizon and K-On and Psycho Pass and Space Dandy ...
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Posted 4/9/18 , edited 4/10/18

PandaSamaBoi wrote:

I agree on oldheads, but about music, specifically hip hop lol.

Hip hop is a good catch. I’m disappointed in myself for leaving that one out.
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Posted 4/10/18 , edited 4/10/18
I think he raised an interesting point that 'auteur' anime directors have made their mark on TV/home video anime during the late 1980s/1990s and moved on (Oshii and Anno both moved to live action film; Satoshi Kon peaced out), with no one really filling their shoes (Makoto Shinkai doesn't even do TV anime, Urobutcher is busy with puppets)

He's right imo that anime excessively references itself, its viewers and its niche tropes and it must stop.
Anime needs to go back to criticizing its viewers (or just plain mocking them) once in a while, like Kon and Anno did.

But he's kidding himself if he thinks he's ever going to get money from Kyoani or any other studio for 'advertising' anime on youtube :phew:


xxJing wrote:
I think simply the focus on genres has changed. A lot of us who watched anime in the late 90s and early 2000s are probably thirsting for some good adventure anime, if you notice, the majority of anime these days do not really include travel.

The current age of anime seems to be more character drama focused, very narrow in scope. Some will enjoy this style of story telling. However, the problem is, it's not what drew most people in the west to anime originally. What drew people in the west to anime, were the sci-fi and fantasy styles that were very uniquely portrayed by anime.

Thanks for your post, you explained how I feel about anime better than I could.
So much anime is just boring to me, like moe or 'relationship drama'
There's still several shows I've enjoyed from this decade but they're in what feels like rare genres like action/adventure, sci-fi, and straight-up fantasy (no rpg game world!)
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Posted 4/10/18 , edited 4/10/18
No, I don't think that we have accepted mediocrity. I think the exact opposite is the case and that's where the "anime used to be better" sentiment comes from.

The best example for this is Attack on Titan. I watched season 1 in March 2017 and I was a little bit surprised that an anime with that much obvious CGI (and the quality of it wasn't that great either) received so much praise for it's animation. Not because I thought it was horrible. It's just that most fans usually complain about something like this. But then the second season started and while there was no significant drop in animation quality, people suddenly complained about the animation. Sure, the first few episodes of season 1 looked better than season 2 but if season 2 had aired right after season 1 nobody would've complained about it because it didn't look worse than the second half of season 1.

It becomes even more clear that many fans are more critical now than they used to be when you look at their complaints concerning the plot/story/writing of an anime.
Most "older" anime (I still don't understand why every anime that is 10+ years old is called old) which are considered to be good have many filler episodes or at least episodes that weren't really necessary. Once the characters and their goals are introduced the episodes that follow are often just monster/fight/drama of the week until the real plot finally begins. But most fans don't care (or didn't care when they first watched it) about it. An anime like this released in 2018 would most likely be called "mediocre", "bad" etc.



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