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Neon Genesis Evangelion and Rahxephon
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29 / M / "Podunk USA" Brun...
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Posted 12/8/06

arx7arbalest wrote:

You probably skipped the first post. The plots don't parallel therefore it isn't a rip-off. Comparisons can be made, but its still not a rip-off of EVA. I guess you never heard of an anime called "Brave Raideen." You know, the show that inspired a great deal of Rahxephon along with Megazone 23. How Rahxephon be rip-off of EVA when there are 2 shows before it that it openly admits that it pays homage to it? Not to mention the FACT that you said you couldn't bare a minute of viewing this. To avoid comments like "went over your head" I will say that it was an exagerration in advance and that you possibly sat through at least an episode. Of course, you had EVA Clone in mind while viewing and completely missed the message of everything. You know, how its interpretation of humanity is either a complete opposite or completely unrelated to what EVA's interpretation is.

How about how many times I hear that Rahxephon remakes EVA episodes in different order. There are some episodes that can be compared, but only to find that it can also be paralelled to an anime that came at least a decade before EVA.
Perhaps EVA took ideas from other anime as well? *it did
Mobile Suit Gundam, Gigantor, Mazinger Z. EVA isn't all that original if it wasn't for the references to philosophy, religion, and psychology, which are all done for effect.



First of all, RahXephon has yet to comment on Humanity(that kid gets pretty emo, for nothing, no one he knows is dead or is to be feared), all they are doing is surviving "D1" attacks(same strategy from Eva, and same type of attackers killed in the same ways, AND if the Mu are an invading alien force WHY THE HELL aren't they deploying like an army?!?!) That is where originality would have saved some points for this rip-off show.

Eva was influenced by Ultraman Tiga, Space Runaway Ideon, and Hayao Miyazaki(especially Nausicaa's mech design). That is obvious, WITHOUT Hideaki Anno stating so. Those are some of his favorite works, but Evangelion's plot is so extreme at what it does, that it reinvents cliches.

And no the references were not done for effect, Hideaki was basing all the situations off of his depression journal(never wondered why the End of Eva movie had that domestic abuse scene?). Without the interweaving of those elements he couldn't cover the wide range of socio-political situations that Humanity plagues themselves with.

If you didn't pick up on that, I guess I know why you enjoyed RahXephon.
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Posted 12/8/06
If Evangelion is a condemnation of humanity, then Rahxephon is a celebration of everything humanity is. The ENTIRE insrumentality project was about evolving humans into one single entity. Rahxephon's "Re-tuning the world" can even be seen as an opposing view and that the perfect world can be achieved through the interactions between humans. If you didn't pick up on that I guess I know why you don't like Rahxephon -_-

How does Eva being influenced by Ultraman Tiga, Space Runaway Ideon and Miyazaki films change the fact that Rahxephon is based on something else?
Nothing. Absolutely Nothing.

So just because it was based of his depression journal means that its not for effect? No it doesn't. How would it not be used for effect? If it seriously affected the plot. The whole flawed characters thing did, but the references didn't. The hall of souls, Adam, and Lillith were the only thing that did affect the plot in EoE. However, they barely meant anything for episodes 1-24. All psycology references and philosophy references never affect the plot, but the characters themselves which only affected the pace of how things were accomplished. The Hedgehogs dilemna reference was only a foreshadowing technique. Doesn't affect the plot.
However, whether or not the references were used for effect or not is irrelevant to whether or not Rahxephon is a rip-off.
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Posted 12/8/06
What is the point of comparing these two series and saying they are the same there is none, of course a series is going to have some likeness to another that could be said for any anime out there. Escpecially those that include mechs, or the echi plot line that is a given and you should expect that with any series you are going to watch It is known fact so why make this into a long over done arguement between the two of you.

Though personally I dislike eva the story line was great no arguing that but the character development sucked. The charcters were way more intresting when they first appeared on the sene than later on when for the most part it was the same repetive emoness that never managed to change. There were almost no redeaming points to those charcters in the least bit.

Rahxephon on the other hand suffered verry much from the same problem but it did eventually seem to fall into its groove and give the characters some positive attributes. Also both series came off to much like they were trying to preach a certain ideal instead of allowing the action and the story itself to be the one to teach the viewers what ever lesson it was we were suppose to learn from those overly moddy charcters.
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Posted 12/8/06

Jesterj wrote:

What is the point of comparing these two series and saying they are the same there is none, of course a series is going to have some likeness to another that could be said for any anime out there. Escpecially those that include mechs, or the echi plot line that is a given and you should expect that with any series you are going to watch It is known fact so why make this into a long over done arguement between the two of you.

Though personally I dislike eva the story line was great no arguing that but the character development sucked. The charcters were way more intresting when they first appeared on the sene than later on when for the most part it was the same repetive emoness that never managed to change. There were almost no redeaming points to those charcters in the least bit.

Rahxephon on the other hand suffered verry much from the same problem but it did eventually seem to fall into its groove and give the characters some positive attributes. Also both series came off to much like they were trying to preach a certain ideal instead of allowing the action and the story itself to be the one to teach the viewers what ever lesson it was we were suppose to learn from those overly moddy charcters.


I beleive the point in Eva was the fact that the characters didn't develop. Much like life, people aren't always capable of change even faced with adversity. Personally, I enjoy seeing characters grow and change as a narrative progresses but Eva was a nice change of pace demonstrating that we can't always change the way we feel we should. I think by showing us characters that were incapable of moving forward the audience is then challenged to address the issues in their lives.

Again thats one of the reasons I enjoyed Rahxephon more than Eva - character development and the significantly more positive message. Now, I much more blown away by Eva, but I feel that I enjoyed Rahxephon more as a whole.
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Posted 12/8/06
That may been the point to make the characters unmoving in their development but, in those sort of situations are you going to tell me that, that many people would incapable of adapting changing. If even one character had shown some sort of development I think I would have been satisfied but none of them did, perhaps that is why i hate eva so much that utter lack in ability for the charcter to achieve any form of change. Even if you think things remain the same and that you are unchanged you are with out being aware of it you change it is one thing that is truely inevitable nothing remains the same the more you resist change the greater change will effect you. You stated that you believed that this was trying to point out to the audience and force them to adress it but that unchanging character does not hold true to reality.
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Posted 12/8/06
The thing is it doesn't necessarily hold true to reality. There are plenty of people who never "develop." Many people have values that shift, relationships that form, etc, but there are a disturbing amount of people who just never really change or develop anyform of depth or complexity at all. Usually, a spouse and kids will do that to even the most stubborn of people, but many can ignore even that. If you beleive that everyone is capable of developing, go hang out in a trailer park sometime. Some times people feel their problems are to big to ever get past - a failed relationship, death of a loved one, failure in life, etc. They die sad and alone - happens all the time.
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Posted 12/8/06
Hey didn't say change was a positive thing, change could be becoming a drug addict and stealing from your family just for your next high. There had to be a change for them to reach that point though you are not just born with your fate bound for you to be sad and then die alone. You can actually see death a form of change because with death generally comes a new begining of some form. But there is no point in arguing this further we will hold our own seperate opinions on this each having its good and bad points. So lets kill our little arguement and allow who ever posts here to be on topic. Plus i am to sleepy to argue.
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29 / M / "Podunk USA" Brun...
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Posted 12/9/06
Eva had no major character development, because it wasn't realistic. People in real life rarely change.
In Eva it wasn't even necessary, the RELATIONSHIPS between the characters go through the changes, and that is what truely makes it a genius show.
Any plot writer can change a character's behaviour due to some mind-blowing event, but that character is always treated the same. That is not real change.

Real change is simply when you inform someone else in your life of a personal view, and then that person changes how they view and act towards you. That is why Shinji is always depressed, ALL the characters treat him like an object.
When their opinions of him are positive he becomes positive as a reflex(he smiles alot when he isn't being degraded). When he expresses his opinion and is silenced, the other characters still change how they treat him.

And Eva had the ultimate positive message, he cancelled Instrumentality to give Humanity another chance, and even though the world was utterly wrecked, Shinji had actually matured. He let go of all his negligent domestic connections, gave up utopia, tried to reach out to his love, and stepped back into reality. That's a real human, living to their fullest potential.
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Posted 12/9/06
I'm gonna step off-topic for a second because the instrumentality thing has been bugging me. Yes in the EoE Shinji rejects the instrumentality because he believed that increasing human potential can only be done as individuals, but in the series ending, the whole congratulations crap pissed me off so I couldn't think straight. A lot of people say that its Shinji actually accepted the instrumentality and all that crap. I always thought that the ending was Shinji accepting himself and rejecting the instrumentality. Hideki Anno said that he wanted to leave it for the fans to decide.
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Posted 12/9/06
Series ending-it is the raw concept of Instrumentality as a thought process, Shinji accepts the definition of individuality as the ONLY true form of reality. He decides to correct his self -loathing and take his chances interacting in reality.(the instrumentality world washes away as he makes that choice)
"Congratulations" are Hideaki Anno homage to the intelligence of the viewer if they can define themselves, also. Children are the future, and he felt it necessary to applaud the coming-of-age struggle to maturity.

Movie ending-more emphasis on the events leading to the Instrumentality thought process, as foreshadowed in the original ending(if looking closely), but it shows the human struggle for life, before the irony of life. Humans are humans worst enemy.
This time Shinji closes off ties to old relationships in a more determined manner, but it is not to isolate himself, he is defining himself. But they have more budget to show concepts he even reaches out to his crush and is rejected(it was a hallucination, but the loved-and-lost pain is all too real anyways).
He finally deals with his mother(the MOST important Freudian element of the plot) and tries to forge his own path back to reality. And after that more shocking developments, that alluded to the ever-present Adam and Eve scenario, but something still tells me he deserves a "Congratulations".

I really don't know why people think he accepted the Instrumentality.
I would have preferred if he had(euphoric bliss, in a malluable world, COME ON! THAT FREAKIN' RULES)
But the entire show bent reality and concepts like twigs, allowing the viewer to escape from the shit uncovered, is not what a Romantic/Expressionistic director like Hideaki would condone.
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Posted 12/9/06
I really don't know why people think he accepted the Instrumentality

open ending = not one point of view :>..(wich i love and hate :P)
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Posted 12/9/06

GabrielDk wrote:

I really don't know why people think he accepted the Instrumentality

open ending = not one point of view :>..(wich i love and hate :P)


I can see how the subtle directing style would give and open interpretation of the final events, but by no means is the 'rejection', uncertain.

It's really open-ended in the idea that Humanity might still hurt him later, or he will become a successful person.(end of Hideaki's diary) That kind of speculation is fanfic gold!
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Posted 12/9/06
I heard the rebuild of Evangelion is supposed to be less confusing to the viewer. I think that means its gonna suck. I mean, the script writing dialogue doesn't sound like it will be as good as it was. I mean, the ending wasn't all that ambiguous. It was kind of leaning to the idea that he wasn't going to accept the instrumentality anyway.
I'm not gonna prematurely shoot it down, but it just won't give off the same feeling you get when you view it and try to wrap your head around it instead of every thing being spoon fed to you.
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Posted 12/9/06

arx7arbalest wrote:

I heard the rebuild of Evangelion is supposed to be less confusing to the viewer. I think that means its gonna suck. I mean, the script writing dialogue doesn't sound like it will be as good as it was. I mean, the ending wasn't all that ambiguous. It was kind of leaning to the idea that he wasn't going to accept the instrumentality anyway.
I'm not gonna prematurely shoot it down, but it just won't give off the same feeling you get when you view it and try to wrap your head around it instead of every thing being spoon fed to you.


Philosophy made more mainstream, will probably suck. Finally we can agree on something arx.

Let the wretched spoonfeeding begin. "I feel sick."
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Posted 12/9/06
On a side note. Has anyone fansubbed Revival of Evangelion. The third movie in the EVA series. The first two were licensed, but what happened to the third
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