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Pop Culture - Dead?
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Posted 12/3/06
^ I think anime can only grow from now on, with fansites of anime such as CR showing how much anime is loved, and the gaining popularity of phenomenon such as Pokemon, DBZ, Naruto, the west is gradually accepting anime on the whole. While I don't think middle America is going to know Evangelion anytime soon, I think production companies in Japan will continue to make higher quality anime with better storylines. If they do somehow mange to keep churning out your standard ecchi crap, the industry will go nowhere. They know this and I hope they want retrograde back to the days where one just followed the new trend.
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Posted 12/3/06
The issue is US anime sales are slipping, even if online interest is continuing to grow. That and alot of fans are leaving anime since it isn't as trendy as it was say a few years ago. Also, the market is changing here in the states. Companies aren't going to invest in that which they can't get a return on. At this point that seems to be cookie cutter endless shonen action series like Bleach and Naruto, with a smattering of mecha and romantic comedy. They've been less hesitent to liscence anime as well - did you know they passed on AMG season 2? Why? Because they weren't making any money on season one. It was a series with a dedicated following - by all logic it should have doen well. But it practically flopped. Why did it flop? Becuase people aren't buying anime like they used to.

Still it's not the end of the world since anime will always thrive in japan, and there will always be dedicated fansubers to translate and distribute it.
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Posted 10/26/07
Pop?! if you are talking about english pop....yeah...they suck...and like hip hop i would never ever listen to english pop...i'm rotting in hell if i do so...but if you are generalizing pop...no, i don't think so...i still listen to JPop...but i might soon stop listening to them becasue they are becoming too americanized.....and i hate it....i first like their originality and i would always do...JPop is the calm to my noisy world...
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Posted 10/26/07

azrael910 wrote:

The issue is US anime sales are slipping, even if online interest is continuing to grow. That and alot of fans are leaving anime since it isn't as trendy as it was say a few years ago. Also, the market is changing here in the states. Companies aren't going to invest in that which they can't get a return on. At this point that seems to be cookie cutter endless shonen action series like Bleach and Naruto, with a smattering of mecha and romantic comedy. They've been less hesitent to liscence anime as well - did you know they passed on AMG season 2? Why? Because they weren't making any money on season one. It was a series with a dedicated following - by all logic it should have doen well. But it practically flopped. Why did it flop? Becuase people aren't buying anime like they used to.

Still it's not the end of the world since anime will always thrive in japan, and there will always be dedicated fansubers to translate and distribute it.


US anime sales are dying b/c of one simple reason, we're on this site watching the subbed versions of anime for FREE. -End of Discussion on that topic-

But in terms of pop music/culture, American pop music's status is basically in the same relationship as hip hop music.............it's dying as well. I'm no pop music fan (shit, I never will be one) but ever since 2003, it seems all aspects of music have basically declined in quality. There are still those that stand out.......in terms of pop music, Justin Timberlake has dramatically improved in music quality since his NSTINK days......and Christina Aguilera has also improved since her bubblegum days. But overall, pop music is all bubblegum crap these days, like this shitty ringtone hip hop.

The only mainstream music genres left that prolly hasn't been raped by Corporate America are country (altho i hate it, that's my personal preference) and R&B.........even tho R&B is slightly getting affected by the music industry, but not too much, there's still a lot more good quality R&B artists there.
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Posted 10/26/07
pop culture... sad to say is NOT DEAD! and will always be alive... pop culture is just the majority's decision. and it's one's fault if they want to join the majority, or stick to what they really believe in..
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Posted 10/26/07
in a way-- it is.
its more r&b these days.
but i'm in rock.
when you said pop is dead, you made me think of one of miyavi's titles pop is dead.
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Posted 10/26/07

big_j_gangsta wrote:

US anime sales are dying b/c of one simple reason, we're on this site watching the subbed versions of anime for FREE. -End of Discussion on that topic-


I wouldn't agree with that for one major reason - anime has ALWAYS been distributed in the US without the consent of copyright holders.

All the way from the VHS fansubbing days to the illegal downloading and streaming video of today. Anime had a brief (and I do mean brief) sales explosion a the turn of the century that collapsed as torrenting went on the rise. Hell, thats how the anime market in US developed - nobody would sell the stuff, so fans subbed and distributed it themselves. Once it was worth money, only then did you ever see people invest in it and attempt to sell it for profit.

American anime distributers have a skewed idea of just how much money they're missing out on when it comes to anime. The vast majority of people who watch anime online would never actually bother watching it if they had to pay for it. I think more people would follow cartoon network and that sort thing, and DVD sales would receive a decent though not mind shattering bump in sales. Part of the draw towards the anime fandom is the relative free accessibility to the source of interest.


But in terms of pop music/culture, American pop music's status is basically in the same relationship as hip hop music.............it's dying as well. I'm no pop music fan (shit, I never will be one) but ever since 2003, it seems all aspects of music have basically declined in quality. There are still those that stand out.......in terms of pop music, Justin Timberlake has dramatically improved in music quality since his NSTINK days......and Christina Aguilera has also improved since her bubblegum days. But overall, pop music is all bubblegum crap these days, like this shitty ringtone hip hop.


agreed, both of those are artists who i think have shown remarkable improvement since their bubblegum pop days.

I'd probably say pop music started failing well before 2004 though. I think the 1980s was the last era that had reasonably well done pop music, but overall I cite the the mid 1990s as the official decline of musical quality. Things have improved a little (though not much) since then, but the late 1990s were undoubtedly the low point.


The only mainstream music genres left that prolly hasn't been raped by Corporate America are country (altho i hate it, that's my personal preference) and R&B.........even tho R&B is slightly getting affected by the music industry, but not too much, there's still a lot more good quality R&B artists there.


I'm not really into country, but rest assured, it has been raped by corporate music. If you want real country, you have to go back to pre-1970. Most everything now is "crossover country." Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, George Jones - THAT'S country, goddammit. Country can have balls and substance, instead of all this mediocre crossover pop bullshit. It may be dated, but there was something to it, a sincerity you see lacking in so much modern music.

Here is some real country - not the patirotic red state cash in toby keith bullshit or wannabe pop star faith hill crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1xSt7iganA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbypwszw3e0

Mostly, I've just quit listening to anything remotely mainstream anymore, and haven't done so in for the last - what now - 6 year or so? I just listen to classics and snippets of quality underground/indie music that comes my way. Rarely do I ever actively seek out anything remotely popular. Now don't think I dismiss it just because it's popular like so many insecure teenagers are apt to do, but rather because it is lacking in every manner possible.

- note - reading some of the earlier responses to this thread remind me how enjoyable this forum used to be... compare it to the recent additions (aside from the one I quoted), and you'll see an absolute lack of insight and content.
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Posted 10/26/07

azrael910 wrote:

The issue is US anime sales are slipping, even if online interest is continuing to grow. That and alot of fans are leaving anime since it isn't as trendy as it was say a few years ago. Also, the market is changing here in the states. Companies aren't going to invest in that which they can't get a return on. At this point that seems to be cookie cutter endless shonen action series like Bleach and Naruto, with a smattering of mecha and romantic comedy. They've been less hesitent to liscence anime as well - did you know they passed on AMG season 2? Why? Because they weren't making any money on season one. It was a series with a dedicated following - by all logic it should have doen well. But it practically flopped. Why did it flop? Becuase people aren't buying anime like they used to.

Still it's not the end of the world since anime will always thrive in japan, and there will always be dedicated fansubers to translate and distribute it.


maybe kids these days are intersted in something else.
like... hrm.. like life.
you know alot about anime.
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Posted 10/26/07

D3R-A9 wrote:


azrael910 wrote:

The issue is US anime sales are slipping, even if online interest is continuing to grow. That and alot of fans are leaving anime since it isn't as trendy as it was say a few years ago. Also, the market is changing here in the states. Companies aren't going to invest in that which they can't get a return on. At this point that seems to be cookie cutter endless shonen action series like Bleach and Naruto, with a smattering of mecha and romantic comedy. They've been less hesitent to liscence anime as well - did you know they passed on AMG season 2? Why? Because they weren't making any money on season one. It was a series with a dedicated following - by all logic it should have doen well. But it practically flopped. Why did it flop? Becuase people aren't buying anime like they used to.

Still it's not the end of the world since anime will always thrive in japan, and there will always be dedicated fansubers to translate and distribute it.


maybe kids these days are intersted in something else.
like... hrm.. like life.
you know alot about anime.


...

god forbid i post about anime in asian pop-culture forum...

"kids these days"... as if the youth of today is more enlightened about "life" than the youth of yesterday

EDIT - actually, after trying to wrap my head around the ignorance of your post, I think I know where you're coming from now. Believe it or not, there was a time when only basement dwelling nerds watched anime. It's only been within the last 5-10 years has it really gained mainstream acceptance. The youth of yesterday didn't bother watching it. Now that it's mainstream entertainment (for the moment), it's a factor.

And I know a lot about many things... and I'd venture to say after being a veteran of two wars, having traveled all over the world (and 40 US states), having met two presidents, met people from all walks of life all over the world, crossed both oceans, worked a large variety of jobs, I've had just LITTLE bit more experience at this "life" thing than you have.
Posted 10/26/07

azrael910 wrote:


D3R-A9 wrote:


azrael910 wrote:

The issue is US anime sales are slipping, even if online interest is continuing to grow. That and alot of fans are leaving anime since it isn't as trendy as it was say a few years ago. Also, the market is changing here in the states. Companies aren't going to invest in that which they can't get a return on. At this point that seems to be cookie cutter endless shonen action series like Bleach and Naruto, with a smattering of mecha and romantic comedy. They've been less hesitent to liscence anime as well - did you know they passed on AMG season 2? Why? Because they weren't making any money on season one. It was a series with a dedicated following - by all logic it should have doen well. But it practically flopped. Why did it flop? Becuase people aren't buying anime like they used to.

Still it's not the end of the world since anime will always thrive in japan, and there will always be dedicated fansubers to translate and distribute it.


maybe kids these days are intersted in something else.
like... hrm.. like life.
you know alot about anime.


...

god forbid i post about anime in asian pop-culture forum...

"kids these days"... as if the youth of today is more enlightened about "life" than the youth of yesterday

EDIT - actually, after trying to wrap my head around the ignorance of your post, I think I know where you're coming from now. Believe it or not, there was a time when only basement dwelling nerds watched anime. It's only been within the last 5-10 years has it really gained mainstream acceptance. The youth of yesterday didn't bother watching it. Now that it's mainstream entertainment (for the moment), it's a factor.

And I know a lot about many things... and I'd venture to say after being a veteran of two wars, having traveled all over the world (and 40 US states), having met two presidents, met people from all walks of life all over the world, crossed both oceans, worked a large variety of jobs, I've had just LITTLE bit more experience at this "life" thing than you have.


AZreal it's ok she listens to MCR and photoshopped a X over her mouth like a typical scene kid would.....aside from that....You probabaly have more real life experience than 99% of the people on this forum...seriously 2 wars!?

Trevor (OP)

V Ohhh low blow haha
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Posted 10/26/07

kyocool wrote:
You probabaly have more real life experience than 99% of the people on this forum...seriously 2 wars!?

Trevor (OP)


According to the US Department of Defense at least.

technically, when i deployed to the middle east i was supporting both OIF (Iraq) and OEF (Afghanistan), so the DoD considers me a veteran of two wars. I am actually eligible to join the VFW thanks to the combat zone designation of the area i was in,

I also deployed once thanks to N Korea (thank you kim jong il for my vacation in japan!). fun off duty, but stressful of duty thanks to seriousness of why we over there and the gayness of the base I was at (thank you god i was never permanent party there). not really a war, but there was more stress over this than most people realize.
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Posted 10/26/07

azrael910 wrote:
In the end all entertainment, be it underground or mainstream, pop culture or sub culture, is all pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.


EVERYTHING is trivial in the grand scheme of things. The earth doesn't matter. WE don't matter. But that point makes this thread, this forum, this entire site meaningless and negates our entire lives. Truth is, that could be a reply to anything and subsequently bring any discussion to a dead halt. Using that statement is pretty cynical and serves no purpose but to make a grandiose, bloated point.

But let's swing away from the ego-death for a bit and back to concerning ourselves with relative minutia. Specifically looking at music, it depends on how much a part of your life it is.

The main questions regarding pop MUSIC culture, as I see it, are, how do you utilize music?
Are you a casual listener, or do you study and perform it like an art?
Is the music you listen made by ARTISTS, in that they give you something tangible and mentally stimulating, or are they just musicians playing simple, catchy, marketable tunes that you can throw on whenever you want to be distracted?

That's what I look for. Every now and then, I'm willing to throw on some easy, catchy shit. But most pop music becomes trite and boring. And when I start thinking about how the catchy pop song was composed, performed, it loses all attractiveness because I realize it didn't take very much to make it at all, except for a lot of money to use expensive studio equipment.
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Posted 10/26/07

virilevocalist wrote:


azrael910 wrote:
In the end all entertainment, be it underground or mainstream, pop culture or sub culture, is all pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.


EVERYTHING is trivial in the grand scheme of things. The earth doesn't matter. WE don't matter. But that point makes this thread, this forum, this entire site meaningless and negates our entire lives. Truth is, that could be a reply to anything and subsequently bring any discussion to a dead halt. Using that statement is pretty cynical and serves no purpose but to make a grandiose, bloated point.

But let's swing away from the ego-death for a bit and back to concerning ourselves with relative minutia. Specifically looking at music, it depends on how much a part of your life it is.

The main questions regarding pop MUSIC culture, as I see it, are, how do you utilize music?
Are you a casual listener, or do you study and perform it like an art?
Is the music you listen made by ARTISTS, in that they give you something tangible and mentally stimulating, or are they just musicians playing simple, catchy, marketable tunes that you can throw on whenever you want to be distracted?

That's what I look for. Every now and then, I'm willing to throw on some easy, catchy shit. But most pop music becomes trite and boring. And when I start thinking about how the catchy pop song was composed, performed, it loses all attractiveness because I realize it didn't take very much to make it at all, except for a lot of money to use expensive studio equipment.


In defense of my original post, I was referring to the undue importance younger people place on popular culture/music. I used to be obsessed with music... and in the end I found it all to be quie trivial outside of a hobby.

Did it really matter whether or not I spent months in an underground/indie music scene to be aware of a certain artist, or if I just used good judgment to sort through what I had relatively easy acces to? Not really. Sure I may be able to find something closer to my specific sense of taste, but is it really worth the time and effort?

Now if I were to hold the pretnesion that my current limited perception of music was the end all be all of what was available, that would be a different story. The fact of the matter is I'm aware there is good stuff out there if I'm willing to put the time in to find it, but the fact is I'm not - and I'm okay with that. Now, if I acknowledge music as a hobby that's another story. Then it's my area of expertise (like it was once long ago). But it's not at the the moment. Now that doesn't justify consuming whatever is tossed my way, it just means applying common sense and good taste when introduced to something - and more importantly learning to judge something independent of undeground/indie versus mainstream hype/popularity. Personally, I think the underground/indie scene can be every bit as shallow and conformatory as any mainstream music scene out there.

how do I utilize music? the vast majority of the time it's background music to some other task (i.e. i'm listening to some tori amos right now). Only time I ever sit down to enjoy music for itself is at a concert, go out of my way to pick up a new album (which is rare nowadays), or pick up a new opera DVD.
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Posted 10/26/07
Pop? you mean the backstreet boyz or something like that? its dead alright~
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Posted 10/27/07

azrael910 wrote:
In defense of my original post, I was referring to the undue importance younger people place on popular culture/music. I used to be obsessed with music... and in the end I found it all to be quie trivial outside of a hobby.

Did it really matter whether or not I spent months in an underground/indie music scene to be aware of a certain artist, or if I just used good judgment to sort through what I had relatively easy acces to? Not really. Sure I may be able to find something closer to my specific sense of taste, but is it really worth the time and effort?


I really think that what's meaningless and trivial is completely subjective, and ultimately depends on what someone's goals are. But calling music as entertainment trivial makes a value judgement on those who do claim music as a hobby, or as a way to make a living. They DO need to consider their own tastes and put in the effort to refine it, mainstream or not. My point is that if young people today are hyperconsuming pop culture without thinking, it's a little sad, and we need to be more discerning with what is considered good. Granted that problem lies with the music industry itself.


azrael910
Now if I were to hold the pretnesion that my current limited perception of music was the end all be all of what was available, that would be a different story. The fact of the matter is I'm aware there is good stuff out there if I'm willing to put the time in to find it, but the fact is I'm not - and I'm okay with that. Now, if I acknowledge music as a hobby that's another story. Then it's my area of expertise (like it was once long ago). But it's not at the the moment. Now that doesn't justify consuming whatever is tossed my way, it just means applying common sense and good taste when introduced to something - and more importantly learning to judge something independent of undeground/indie versus mainstream hype/popularity. Personally, I think the underground/indie scene can be every bit as shallow and conformatory as any mainstream music scene out there.

Indeed. But to make this relevant to the thread, people who define a good bit of themselves by music NEED to put in the time to find their respective ranges. The current nature of pop culture and being surrounded by those who consume it without being picky or choosy leads others to do the same. For those who claim music as a hobby or a way of life, there's way too much undiscovered, GOOD music out there to waste time on the mediocrity that's churned out by the pop music industry. If people make a conscious decision to not delve deep into exploring music, then it's fine. Stick to whatever floats your boat. But with most pop music consumers, there's a shocking lack of awareness of the enormous span of music. Most never bother to leave their comfort zone. The listening habits cultivated by pop culture and it's consumers are part of the problem, I think.

Of course the underground/indie scene is shallow and conformatory. It's chockful of elitists who get off on the fact that their favorite music is more indie/underground than others, whether or not it's good. This "special exclusive club" idea spawns numerous copycats and pretty much everyone becomes conformist in their indie-ness. My band is more indie than your band, right?


azrael910how do I utilize music? the vast majority of the time it's background music to some other task (i.e. i'm listening to some tori amos right now). Only time I ever sit down to enjoy music for itself is at a concert, go out of my way to pick up a new album (which is rare nowadays), or pick up a new opera DVD.

See, you've actually taken the time to figure out your musical habits. You've made a conscious decision to not make it a huge part of your life. I think more people need to discover what their own music habits are, and if they choose to be a musichead, who doesn't just passively listen to a song, should take the time to really look for good music from different sources. That means taking one foot out of the pop cultural circle and placing it somewhere else.
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