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Are you in for Naturally Aspirated or Forced Induction?
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Posted 8/21/08
i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho
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26 / M / Philadelphia
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Posted 8/21/08

Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


torque steer?? Do you know what you are talking about? Its actually much harder to maximize power out of a turbo car than a NA car. The only difference in turbos and NA in getting power is average power range. How many people can say they are maximizing their turbo's power? only probably 3-4%. Sure most people are making 330hp on a E316g but how many can say they are making over 400hp on it?
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26 / M / union city
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Posted 8/22/08
if i had the money i would go N/A on my k20 but since i dont have any i rather go boost...plus its more fun when the turbo spools.
683 cr points
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Posted 8/22/08

lasthope05 wrote:


Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


torque steer?? Do you know what you are talking about? Its actually much harder to maximize power out of a turbo car than a NA car. The only difference in turbos and NA in getting power is average power range. How many people can say they are maximizing their turbo's power? only probably 3-4%. Sure most people are making 330hp on a E316g but how many can say they are making over 400hp on it?


Torque steer is when you accelerate a FF car and the steering wheel turns left or right on its own. You have no idea what you are talking about. N/A is much harder and more expensive to maximize the power than the equivalent turbo engine. You can get from equal to several times as much maximum power output from for ex. a turbo 2litre I4 than a N/A 2litre I4. Aftermarket intake, exhaust, ecu tune, wastegate, 93octane, exhaust manifold and a new stock turbo can get 400hp. For 400hp n/a you would need higher bore and stroke, ecu tune, race gas, new pistons, rods, crankshaft, increase rev limit, intake, high flowing race exhaust, high flowing intake and exhaust manifold, racing spark plugs, less restrictive current wiring, low resistance oil, flywheel, drive shaft and I am still not sure if that will make 400hp.
683 cr points
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Posted 8/22/08

Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


For a na setup all you have to do is put a bigger engine in the car if you want more power. Turbo is a lot more work.
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26 / M / Philadelphia
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Posted 8/22/08 , edited 8/22/08

veyron1001 wrote:


lasthope05 wrote:


Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


torque steer?? Do you know what you are talking about? Its actually much harder to maximize power out of a turbo car than a NA car. The only difference in turbos and NA in getting power is average power range. How many people can say they are maximizing their turbo's power? only probably 3-4%. Sure most people are making 330hp on a E316g but how many can say they are making over 400hp on it?


Torque steer is when you accelerate a FF car and the steering wheel turns left or right on its own. You have no idea what you are talking about. N/A is much harder and more expensive to maximize the power than the equivalent turbo engine. You can get from equal to several times as much maximum power output from for ex. a turbo 2litre I4 than a N/A 2litre I4. Aftermarket intake, exhaust, ecu tune, wastegate, 93octane, exhaust manifold and a new stock turbo can get 400hp. For 400hp n/a you would need higher bore and stroke, ecu tune, race gas, new pistons, rods, crankshaft, increase rev limit, intake, high flowing race exhaust, high flowing intake and exhaust manifold, racing spark plugs, less restrictive current wiring, low resistance oil, flywheel, drive shaft and I am still not sure if that will make 400hp.


Sit back and learn a little bit as I give you a bit of schooling. This topic is purely about maximizing your setup not power gains. He's brought up the topic of torque steer and turbo lag being the negative draw backs of a turbo car. Turbo lag can virtually be eliminated with a perfectly sized turbo. And torque steer happens to NA cars also not only FI motors. Learn anything yet?

So you telling me that is is more expensive to maximize an NA car than a Turbo? I guess you have not real knowledge of the turbo world and the true car enthusiasts huh? I'll make a great example right here. You have a motor and you want to run a gt35r turbo. Now in order to maximize a turbo of that caliber and size first of you will need fuel. Pump, injectors , afpr, and lines for more volume flow. Ok now that you have your fuel situated you will need to set your motor up to take the abuse. This includes pistons and rods, full porting of the head including SS +1mm valves and a dual spring setup. Also not to mention the block will need to be bore'd .020 over to properly fit the piston for proper PTW clearance. Now moving onto intake exhaust system. With a turbo that size you will be reving very high in the rpms. Now the thing about stock IM is that they are mostly build for low and mid range power with the long runners and and small Pentium's. An aftermarket will need to take its place here to allow it to breath in the top end. Naturally you will need an exhaust and a 3" has enough flow for around 700whp before back pressure begins to build up.

Tuning will need to be done as you never modify a car and not tune so there goes an ECU, Racing plugs dont really matter in any type of car. NA or Turbo learn your stuff. Most people run the stock factory plugs for their cars.

Well basically its like this everything you do to a NA motor you also do to a Turbo to maximize its power. You are too blind sided to realize that turbos make big numbers big woop. But turbos are also in a differ ball park. A perfect example is honda guys(no pun intended here people) they put on a large turbo and only run 10 lbs of boost. Its not just the honda guys but almost everybody with a turbo. Now at 10 lbs they are making power but compared to the rest of the true tuners out there they are even close. You done see people running 25+ psi because alot of people choose not to build their motors up. Let me ask you a question. How many people you know have a turbo that they are maxing out? Probably zero.

44 cr points
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Posted 8/22/08

lasthope05 wrote:


veyron1001 wrote:


lasthope05 wrote:


Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


torque steer?? Do you know what you are talking about? Its actually much harder to maximize power out of a turbo car than a NA car. The only difference in turbos and NA in getting power is average power range. How many people can say they are maximizing their turbo's power? only probably 3-4%. Sure most people are making 330hp on a E316g but how many can say they are making over 400hp on it?


Torque steer is when you accelerate a FF car and the steering wheel turns left or right on its own. You have no idea what you are talking about. N/A is much harder and more expensive to maximize the power than the equivalent turbo engine. You can get from equal to several times as much maximum power output from for ex. a turbo 2litre I4 than a N/A 2litre I4. Aftermarket intake, exhaust, ecu tune, wastegate, 93octane, exhaust manifold and a new stock turbo can get 400hp. For 400hp n/a you would need higher bore and stroke, ecu tune, race gas, new pistons, rods, crankshaft, increase rev limit, intake, high flowing race exhaust, high flowing intake and exhaust manifold, racing spark plugs, less restrictive current wiring, low resistance oil, flywheel, drive shaft and I am still not sure if that will make 400hp.


Sit back and learn a little bit as I give you a bit of schooling. This topic is purely about maximizing your setup not power gains. He's brought up the topic of torque steer and turbo lag being the negative draw backs of a turbo car. Turbo lag can virtually be eliminated with a perfectly sized turbo. And torque steer happens to NA cars also not only FI motors. Learn anything yet?

So you telling me that is is more expensive to maximize an NA car than a Turbo? I guess you have not real knowledge of the turbo world and the true car enthusiasts huh? I'll mIake a great example right here. You have a motor and you want to run a gt35r turbo. Now in order to maximize a turbo of that caliber and size first of you will need fuel. Pump, injectors , afpr, and lines for more volume flow. Ok now that you have your fuel situated you will need to set your motor up to take the abuse. This includes pistons and rods, full porting of the head including SS +1mm valves and a dual spring setup. Also not to mention the block will need to be bore'd .020 over to properly fit the piston for proper PTW clearance. Now moving onto intake exhaust system. With a turbo that size you will be reving very high in the rpms. Now the thing about stock IM is that they are mostly build for low and mid range power with the long runners and and small Pentium's. An aftermarket will need to take its place here to allow it to breath in the top end. Naturally you will need an exhaust and a 3" has enough flow for around 700whp before back pressure begins to build up.

Tuning will need to be done as you never modify a car and not tune so there goes an ECU, Racing plugs dont really matter in any type of car. NA or Turbo learn your stuff. Most people run the stock factory plugs for their cars.

Well basically its like this everything you do to a NA motor you also do to a Turbo to maximize its power. You are too blind sided to realize that turbos make big numbers big woop. But turbos are also in a differ ball park. A perfect example is honda guys(no pun intended here people) they put on a large turbo and only run 10 lbs of boost. Its not just the honda guys but almost everybody with a turbo. Now at 10 lbs they are making power but compared to the rest of the true tuners out there they are even close. You done see people running 25+ psi because alot of people choose not to build their motors up. Let me ask you a question. How many people you know have a turbo that they are maxing out? Probably zero.




first of all i take back what i said, yes torque steer happens regardless of N/A or Turbo. Yes if you choose correctly you wont get a lot of turbo lag. I still believe it requires more skill to make the same numbers in an N/A car vs. a turbo car. I can go out right now and spend 4k on a turbo kit for my car and increase output from 160bhp to 270bhp. where as if i wanted 270bhp N/A in my car i would have to spend more money and more time. but i like to spend time working on my car. In my humble opinion it still take more skill to get the same power out of N/A then it does out of turbos. But hey maybe i'm wrong, i have been before.
1263 cr points
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26 / M / Philadelphia
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Posted 8/22/08

Lord_Nycon1 wrote:
In my humble opinion it still take more skill to get the same power out of N/A then it does out of turbos


There is your problem right there. You are comparing a NA's power output to a Turbos and you can never do that. Power wise it will be very hard to catch up to what a turbo can do or even damn hear impossible. Thats why the topic is purely maximizing your motor for what ever application you plan to run.
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25 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 8/22/08

Lord_Nycon1 wrote:


lasthope05 wrote:


veyron1001 wrote:


lasthope05 wrote:


Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


torque steer?? Do you know what you are talking about? Its actually much harder to maximize power out of a turbo car than a NA car. The only difference in turbos and NA in getting power is average power range. How many people can say they are maximizing their turbo's power? only probably 3-4%. Sure most people are making 330hp on a E316g but how many can say they are making over 400hp on it?


Torque steer is when you accelerate a FF car and the steering wheel turns left or right on its own. You have no idea what you are talking about. N/A is much harder and more expensive to maximize the power than the equivalent turbo engine. You can get from equal to several times as much maximum power output from for ex. a turbo 2litre I4 than a N/A 2litre I4. Aftermarket intake, exhaust, ecu tune, wastegate, 93octane, exhaust manifold and a new stock turbo can get 400hp. For 400hp n/a you would need higher bore and stroke, ecu tune, race gas, new pistons, rods, crankshaft, increase rev limit, intake, high flowing race exhaust, high flowing intake and exhaust manifold, racing spark plugs, less restrictive current wiring, low resistance oil, flywheel, drive shaft and I am still not sure if that will make 400hp.


Sit back and learn a little bit as I give you a bit of schooling. This topic is purely about maximizing your setup not power gains. He's brought up the topic of torque steer and turbo lag being the negative draw backs of a turbo car. Turbo lag can virtually be eliminated with a perfectly sized turbo. And torque steer happens to NA cars also not only FI motors. Learn anything yet?

So you telling me that is is more expensive to maximize an NA car than a Turbo? I guess you have not real knowledge of the turbo world and the true car enthusiasts huh? I'll mIake a great example right here. You have a motor and you want to run a gt35r turbo. Now in order to maximize a turbo of that caliber and size first of you will need fuel. Pump, injectors , afpr, and lines for more volume flow. Ok now that you have your fuel situated you will need to set your motor up to take the abuse. This includes pistons and rods, full porting of the head including SS +1mm valves and a dual spring setup. Also not to mention the block will need to be bore'd .020 over to properly fit the piston for proper PTW clearance. Now moving onto intake exhaust system. With a turbo that size you will be reving very high in the rpms. Now the thing about stock IM is that they are mostly build for low and mid range power with the long runners and and small Pentium's. An aftermarket will need to take its place here to allow it to breath in the top end. Naturally you will need an exhaust and a 3" has enough flow for around 700whp before back pressure begins to build up.

Tuning will need to be done as you never modify a car and not tune so there goes an ECU, Racing plugs dont really matter in any type of car. NA or Turbo learn your stuff. Most people run the stock factory plugs for their cars.

Well basically its like this everything you do to a NA motor you also do to a Turbo to maximize its power. You are too blind sided to realize that turbos make big numbers big woop. But turbos are also in a differ ball park. A perfect example is honda guys(no pun intended here people) they put on a large turbo and only run 10 lbs of boost. Its not just the honda guys but almost everybody with a turbo. Now at 10 lbs they are making power but compared to the rest of the true tuners out there they are even close. You done see people running 25+ psi because alot of people choose not to build their motors up. Let me ask you a question. How many people you know have a turbo that they are maxing out? Probably zero.




first of all i take back what i said, yes torque steer happens regardless of N/A or Turbo. Yes if you choose correctly you wont get a lot of turbo lag. I still believe it requires more skill to make the same numbers in an N/A car vs. a turbo car. I can go out right now and spend 4k on a turbo kit for my car and increase output from 160bhp to 270bhp. where as if i wanted 270bhp N/A in my car i would have to spend more money and more time. but i like to spend time working on my car. In my humble opinion it still take more skill to get the same power out of N/A then it does out of turbos. But hey maybe i'm wrong, i have been before.


Here's the problem, an NA motor will never net the same amount of HP, a turbo would. A fully built NA GSR Integra makes 240hp to the wheels. 240hp! A turbo GSR (T3/T4) on 11 lbs make 270whp. Though the NA will walk turbo GSRs up to 400hp (estimate).

Who says every Honda guy runs only 10 lbs of boost? Alternative Motorsports (located in OKC) runs more than 40 lbs on their fully built 8 second Pro FWD Civic. Team Spank (OKC) runs more than 40 lbs on their sub-10 SFWD Gold Civic and streetable. Their SFWD Red Civic isn't even fully built and boosted and it runs 11s all day long and is daily driven.
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26 / M / Philadelphia
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Posted 8/22/08 , edited 8/22/08

revolutionofone wrote:

Who says every Honda guy runs only 10 lbs of boost? Alternative Motorsports (located in OKC) runs more than 40 lbs on their fully built 8 second Pro FWD Civic. Team Spank (OKC) runs more than 40 lbs on their sub-10 SFWD Gold Civic and streetable. Their SFWD Red Civic isn't even fully built and boosted and it runs 11s all day long and is daily driven.


Did I ever say every honda guy? I said in general. You are just stating specific cars.. I could do the exact same thing around here. Generally when people turbo a car how much boost do you think they run? not over 20 i can tell you that much, or hell even 15 lbs.
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23 / M / SF Bay Area, CA (...
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Posted 8/23/08

Lord_Nycon1 wrote:

i prefer N/A because you need to work harder to get the power, and FI is just plain lazy. not to mention you have to put the power to the road or its useless, torque steer and turbo lag.

So prove you know what your doing and go N/A imho


Lazy, eh? Well, it takes SO MUCH MORE WORK to get more out of an engine without the use of FI. The reason why FI is so popular is because it is a cheaper, easier way to get more out of the engine.

But I'm guessing you're one of the purists that loves the response of an NA engine, eh? I'd like to know what more you wish to say.....
54 cr points
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26 / M
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Posted 9/8/08
Forced induction more power go Turbos
superchargers are gay
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27 / M / california
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Posted 9/8/08
i agree with lasthope, im not maximizing my turbo either, my cars basically fully built and im only pushing at 14 psi but i like lower boost idk ive never really seen 240's go over 20lbs...haha

yea i guess the response on the na would be better than boost and as for turbo lag....how big are we talking about here? most smaller turbos dont even lag much t2's t3/t4 etc

and who said turbos were lazy? lol it still takes a lot of time and effort for a turbo mr-i-want-to-spend-more-time-on-a-car-bigshot
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24 / M / SoCal
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Posted 9/8/08
N/A FOR THE WIN
Posted 9/9/08
yangss14, lasthope r right, i only push 15 psi all the time on my 240, the only time i did a full boost run, when i dyno a few months back.. skill?? its not skill, its knowing how to build your motor and spending a shit ton of money , most boosted civic's, i seen, has had a over size turbo on them. pushing 8-10 psi if that.
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