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Transsexuals
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Posted 8/2/07
I did not say that having premarital sex makes you a slut. I said just having sex with people who you know nothing about makes you a slut. In my opinion it does, and I’m completely free to express my opinions! Rather you like it or not!

I absolutely love how people like to toss out the “You’re narrow minded,” “You can’t force your way of life,” and “We can express ourselves rather you like it or not” fingers whenever somebody expresses an opinion that they do not agree with.

In my opinion people who screw around are sluts. In their opinion I’m a judgmental prick. That doesn’t make either one true, but both are welcomed.

Back on topic:
I disagree. There are tons of gay people, and (better example) tons of black people (and, even better example) tons of women. All of these groups are victims of discrimination and prejudice, even on large scale. This being said I think that trans would still be discriminated against even if there were a mass of them.

(Mind you, men, and people who are not black are often victims of sexism and racism too, but I’m drawing light on more recent, organized, and large scale things.)


HokiePokie wrote:



Brief but off topic question: What do you have against people having a belief in a higher being? If you meant the morals preached in religion that’s opinion. It may be said that the higher being they believe in feels the same way, and might thus encourage their opinion, but it still comes down to moral opinion decided by the person. Anyway, most atheists have some beliefs that are technically religious. If you count in morality like that (the religious person finding it morally wrong to sleep with somebody who used to be the same sex as them) then that’s pretty much 99% of all atheists right there.

Back on topic: It’s against most religions to be having sex outside of marriage at all. So do you still think its fair to say a trans has to give their personal information out before having sex? (Mind you, anybody who has sex with anybody without getting personal information first is A. A slut [male or female! I hate when people act like men can’t be sluts cuz they can!] and B. Probably has S.T.Ds)


I just find it harsh to do so many "good deed" and not doing "bad" stuff just to not go to hell. I mean it is indeed wrong to kill, but it's not a "bad" thing just because you'll go to hell because of it. Although not all think that way, some do. I'm not the type to flame religions and go "HAHA GOD DOESN'T EXIST MOFO'S" (not anymore that is.. if you ever considered me one.) And the fact is I find it wrong to have sex with a person (while you're a transexual) and not telling them, is because the person would be hurt to find out that person is a transexual, and we all know loads of people are religious. And of course the person's image of transexuals will also go down along with it (even though I'm not a fan of them either, it's still a bad thing for other transexuals.) It's just really cruel to have sex with someone's who's beliefs are against transexuals, and them finding it AFTER you had sex.


Well said, I think I agree with what you said. Even as a religious person. I do believe in hell but I do not think it is right to think that something is wrong "because if you do it you will go to hell." I think there really is a difference between good and bad regardless of consequence.
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Posted 8/2/07
First off I'd like to say that I've seen a lot of people lumping transvestites and transexuals together in the same category..which is actually inaccurate.

Transvestism is a sexual compulsion. They are often married men who in their "normal" lives appear as masculine as any other men. But in order for them to get a sense of intense sexual gratification, they feel the need to dress in feminine clothing.

Transexuals are people who feel that they were born in the wrong body. It has been scientifically proven that there are physiological differences between the brains of men and women. Post-mortem studies of transexuals found that those who had been born as males but felt that they were supposed to be female, actually had genetically female brains. The same was true with females who believed they were male.

I actually just finished a biology of human sexuality class and my Professor was a female to male transexual. He told us all about his experiences as a woman and later as a man. It was a great class and I think that it was made better by his instruction since as a sex therepist and as a person who actually experienced he had more insight into the subject matter than you would normally find.

Oh and for those people who feel that transexuals should disclose what they were born as...for you guys out there...the male to female surgery is perfect...there is absolutely no way for you to be able to tell. As for the female to male surgery, since there is no way to simulate erectile function...they're kind of forced to mention who they were before.

Honestly...it's such an interesting topic. Oh hey here's an interesting sidenote. Did you know that if a woman is under a lot of stress during the first four months of pregnancy...there is a 80% chance that if she is having a boy...he will be gay. Apparently, when a woman is under stress, her body doesn't produce any testosterone, so the fetus is deprived testosterone. Cool huh? So for all you self-loathing homosexuals out there... you really can blame your mom.

***Oh hey, about the whole hermaphrodite sinde conversation that was going on. First off, if a child is born a hermaphrodite they should actually be altered to appear as a male because any masculinization of the genitalia means that there was the presence of testosterone during the development of the fetus and as suce will have a 98% chance of having a masculine brain. Also I recommend anyone who believes that the way someone physically looks is enough to dictate behavior (if you look like a girl then you'll act like a girl) to research the case of David Reimer. Long story short, David Reimer had a botched circumcision, so Dr. John Money said that with therepy and gender reassignment, it was possible to raise him as a girl and he wouldn't know the difference. Dr. Money was WRONG!!! Read the study. It'll open your eyes
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Posted 8/2/07

starcrossed23 wrote:

First off I'd like to say that I've seen a lot of people lumping transvestites and transexuals together in the same category..which is actually inaccurate.

Transvestism is a sexual compulsion. They are often married men who in their "normal" lives appear as masculine as any other men. But in order for them to get a sense of intense sexual gratification, they feel the need to dress in feminine clothing.

Transexuals are people who feel that they were born in the wrong body. It has been scientifically proven that there are physiological differences between the brains of men and women. Post-mortem studies of transexuals found that those who had been born as males but felt that they were supposed to be female, actually had genetically female brains. The same was true with females who believed they were male.

I actually just finished a biology of human sexuality class and my Professor was a female to male transexual. He told us all about his experiences as a woman and later as a man. It was a great class and I think that it was made better by his instruction since as a sex therepist and as a person who actually experienced he had more insight into the subject matter than you would normally find.

Oh and for those people who feel that transexuals should disclose what they were born as...for you guys out there...the male to female surgery is perfect...there is absolutely no way for you to be able to tell. As for the female to male surgery, since there is no way to simulate erectile function...they're kind of forced to mention who they were before.

Honestly...it's such an interesting topic. Oh hey here's an interesting sidenote. Did you know that if a woman is under a lot of stress during the first four months of pregnancy...there is a 80% chance that if she is having a boy...he will be gay. Apparently, when a woman is under stress, her body doesn't produce any testosterone, so the fetus is deprived testosterone. Cool huh? So for all you self-loathing homosexuals out there... you really can blame your mom.


That was a wonderfully enlightening post. However I need to point out some flaws. First I will take something from a previous post of mine:




Transsexual: somebody whose sex is surgically changed: somebody who has undergone surgical and hormonal treatment to change his or her anatomical sex
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Transvestite: somebody who dresses like the opposite sex: somebody who habitually or frequently adopts the dress and often the behavior of the opposite sex
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Next, the facts you mentioned are half-truths. Only a certain fraction of transgender individuals were born with the brain of the opposite sex. Many simply feel that they are out of place.

Next, the male to female transformation IS NOT PERFECT. First off you run into the problem of th Adam’s apple. As I understand they may have recently solved this. However, the body after the sex change does not produce the proper hormones; moreover, a man transformed into a woman still cannot have children. These are flaws that they are working to fix.

Now, Catholics do not believe in sex without the chance of bearing off spring. Some view it as murder, others simply find it natural incorrect. So masturbating, the use of birth control, or sex with something that has absolutely 0% chance of becoming impregnated is against their religion. They have been tricked, deceived, taken advantage of, and manipulated into going against their religion.

Don’t you think?

Also, that thing you mentioned at the end sounded interesting. I’ll need to do some research, but I have recently studied the hard biological evidence of people being born gay and -all- (A few books, a couple teachers, and of course the internet) my sources agree there is absolutely none. Statistics, however, disagree. Of course that is statistics, which could just be coincidence, and so you cannot rely on those.

I was actually kind of annoyed when I discovered this. I delved into the research because I had gotten into an argument with a friend of mine who said being gay is a choice. However, there simply isn’t any real evidence to use against him.


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Posted 8/2/07

SeraphAlford wrote:

Next, the facts you mentioned are half-truths. Only a certain fraction of transgender individuals were born with the brain of the opposite sex. Many simply feel that they are out of place.

Next, the male to female transformation IS NOT PERFECT. First off you run into the problem of th Adam’s apple. As I understand they may have recently solved this. However, the body after the sex change does not produce the proper hormones; moreover, a man transformed into a woman still cannot have children. These are flaws that they are working to fix.

Now, Catholics do not believe in sex without the chance of bearing off spring. Some view it as murder, others simply find it natural incorrect. So masturbating, the use of birth control, or sex with something that has absolutely 0% chance of becoming impregnated is against their religion. They have been tricked, deceived, taken advantage of, and manipulated into going against their religion.

Don’t you think?



The surgery involves the shaving of the adam's apple, and the transformation of external genitalia into the inner walls and outer appearance of the vagina. Hormone therepy, alters the vocal chords, lessens the appearance of body hair, triggers the widening of the hips and narrowing of the waist, and also the development of breasts. Modern advancements in the field of cosmetic surgery have made it so that there is really no way to tell.

I like that you brought up the whole..."but they can't have babies" argument. So by that rational women with fertility problems or are survivors of various cancers and have had hystroectomies aren't really women? Or that these women aren't allowed to have sex lives even if they're married?

In a lot of your various forum posts, you seem to hide behind Catholic doctrines. I'm also Catholic. Been raised in a Catholic family, went to a Catholic school, was a youth minister, ect. And while the church does not condone premarital sex, I don't remember ever hearing that sex is only for procreative purposes. Yes that is the main goal, but the point of marriage is to be able to share every aspect of your life with one other person. The church has no problem with recreational sex as long as it is within the confines of marriage.

It makes me question what faction of you belong to, because everything you've said screams of those ass backwards fundimentalists that don't even believe in modern medicine. And I also question how, in light of the widespread reach of the internet, you seem absolutely oblivious to any scientific and medical studies that run contrary to your beliefs. I swear some of the stuff you spout out come straight form catholic.com...now that is a seriously flawed website.

I'm not really trying to attack you, but I think that once you've actually gone out into the world and had some life experience, you're gonna find that the things that you believe in so passionately as a 16 year old...don't actually fit anymore. I'm not advocating renouncing your religion...but you need to understand that a lot of the "moral guidelines" are in sore need of updating to accomodate the world we live in now.
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Posted 8/2/07
Transexuals disgust me to my utter core. I have seen some in the past, I would simply flee at the site of these people who have done these horrible things to their body. I think of them as freaks, I completely agree with the prejudice against them. I am alright with gays and lezbians, but this is a disgusting event. I want them off the earth and shot into the sun, if that is possible.
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Posted 8/2/07

Justinias wrote:

Transexuals disgust me to my utter core. I have seen some in the past, I would simply flee at the site of these people who have done these horrible things to their body. I think of them as freaks, I completely agree with the prejudice against them. I am alright with gays and lezbians, but this is a disgusting event. I want them off the earth and shot into the sun, if that is possible.


That's waaay too cruel, just because they're ugly to you? Seriously...
Posted 8/2/07

HokiePokie wrote:


Justinias wrote:

Transexuals disgust me to my utter core. I have seen some in the past, I would simply flee at the site of these people who have done these horrible things to their body. I think of them as freaks, I completely agree with the prejudice against them. I am alright with gays and lezbians, but this is a disgusting event. I want them off the earth and shot into the sun, if that is possible.


That's waaay too cruel, just because they're ugly to you? Seriously...


I agree, that's just wrong. They're just want to live normally...
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Posted 8/2/07
No, they are not ugly to me, no where inside that paragraph did I say they we're ugly to me. I just find the idea of having a sex change wrong on every level. When I said '' I want them off the earth and shot into the sun '' I ment, I just dont want any, just a more creativly. They want to live normally, sadly they wont be able to. Well, people will accept them gradually, as we evolve... which is a long ways from now.
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Posted 8/2/07
i dont mind as long as they feel more comfortable with themselves afterwards
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Posted 8/2/07

starcrossed23 wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

Next, the facts you mentioned are half-truths. Only a certain fraction of transgender individuals were born with the brain of the opposite sex. Many simply feel that they are out of place.

Next, the male to female transformation IS NOT PERFECT. First off you run into the problem of th Adam’s apple. As I understand they may have recently solved this. However, the body after the sex change does not produce the proper hormones; moreover, a man transformed into a woman still cannot have children. These are flaws that they are working to fix.

Now, Catholics do not believe in sex without the chance of bearing off spring. Some view it as murder, others simply find it natural incorrect. So masturbating, the use of birth control, or sex with something that has absolutely 0% chance of becoming impregnated is against their religion. They have been tricked, deceived, taken advantage of, and manipulated into going against their religion.

Don’t you think?



The surgery involves the shaving of the adam's apple, and the transformation of external genitalia into the inner walls and outer appearance of the vagina. Hormone therepy, alters the vocal chords, lessens the appearance of body hair, triggers the widening of the hips and narrowing of the waist, and also the development of breasts. Modern advancements in the field of cosmetic surgery have made it so that there is really no way to tell.

I like that you brought up the whole..."but they can't have babies" argument. So by that rational women with fertility problems or are survivors of various cancers and have had hystroectomies aren't really women? Or that these women aren't allowed to have sex lives even if they're married?

In a lot of your various forum posts, you seem to hide behind Catholic doctrines. I'm also Catholic. Been raised in a Catholic family, went to a Catholic school, was a youth minister, ect. And while the church does not condone premarital sex, I don't remember ever hearing that sex is only for procreative purposes. Yes that is the main goal, but the point of marriage is to be able to share every aspect of your life with one other person. The church has no problem with recreational sex as long as it is within the confines of marriage.

It makes me question what faction of you belong to, because everything you've said screams of those ass backwards fundimentalists that don't even believe in modern medicine. And I also question how, in light of the widespread reach of the internet, you seem absolutely oblivious to any scientific and medical studies that run contrary to your beliefs. I swear some of the stuff you spout out come straight form catholic.com...now that is a seriously flawed website.

I'm not really trying to attack you, but I think that once you've actually gone out into the world and had some life experience, you're gonna find that the things that you believe in so passionately as a 16 year old...don't actually fit anymore. I'm not advocating renouncing your religion...but you need to understand that a lot of the "moral guidelines" are in sore need of updating to accomodate the world we live in now.


Don’t act like an arrogant prick. I’m not attacking you, to put it in your words, but your obviously trying to be demeaning. I’m not a Catholic. I happened to have a Catholic friend over at the time, and he was reading over my shoulder. He pointed out to me that Catholics do not believe in sex as a thing for shear pleasure. It is meant to be a gift for a man and his wife, true, but it is also meant to be a thing for reproduction.

I didn’t say I agreed with what he said. I simply noted that Catholics do not believe in using protection and other means of having sex without offspring as correct. He gave me some verse about how God was mad at a man for “pulling out” and keeping his wife from getting pregnant. (Which I think is in the protestant bible too, but I don’t know. I’m not a master of religion.)

Next, there are hormone therapies but they have yet to transform a man in such a way that his body naturally begins to produce the hormones themselves. My cousin has a friend (which is not much of a relation, like a friend of friend, only slightly closer) that is transgender. He’s a pretty cool girl. He takes shots of hormones to keep his body working as a woman’s should.

However, this all being said, he does not operate like a woman on his own. Even with the drugs he does not have everything a woman has. He does not produce eggs and thus does not have a period.

Now, you called into question my understanding of science. Even as you called me ignorance you displayed it in yourself. If you search Crunchy Roll you will actually find in some of the older threads that I have a certain foundation in biology, psychology, and even Physics. So don’t go assuming you know me.

Anyway, this is all for debate. Your posts have been pretty interesting and I do enjoy the facts you put out. Yes, it is true. The male and female brain are not the same, as I have pointed out in previous threads.

This is most evidence in the variation between how much grey matter men have in comparison to women, and how much white matter women have compared to men. I’ve used this as evidence for previous threads about sexism in the past. If I have my numbers memorized correctly women have ten times as much white brain matter associated with intelligence than men do, and men have 6 times more gray brain matter associated with intelligence than women do.

Anyway, I don’t know why you are getting defensive over this. Are you yourself a transgender? You’re coming off as somebody who doesn’t like to hear people who are against your people.

I have something to break to you. In my opinion, rather you like it or not it is screwed up and wrong to deceive somebody like that. You’re only going to hurt and disgust people for your own personal gain. Go ahead. Change your sex. That’s your business and you are completely welcome to do it. Tricking people is, however, morally (in a religious and secular sense) socially, and pollitically wrong!

You do not have the -legal- right to keep people from information that directly effects them and their morals. That would be like me sneaking out and putting bacon bits into a Jewish vegetarians salad. You can get sued for that kind of crap.

Next, Star, you’re only a decade older than me. 26 is not exactly a respectable age itself. Especially when you’re still getting haughty like a 16 year old and then acting condescending and twisting insultingly demeaning connotations into your words. It’s incredibly hypocritical of you to shed light on my youth. You yourself are still very-very young. Although I do know that by the time I am your age I will have gone through a mass of mental, physical, and emotional maturity I do also know that most people are not worthy of being called adults until their late forties in this day and age.

I’m sure there are parts of me that make me biased against this subject. However, you’re method of ‘informing’ me of that is not going to help. As I admitted in a sexism thread previously on CR as a man I am more prone to notice sexism against men than women. I try and avoid this, but in the same light as somebody who feels he was born in the right sex I am completely aware that I, inevitably (especially in my hormone driven youth) will have a tendency in my thought process that makes me perhaps twisted against transgender.

However, this being said, I did view everything previously stated from a neutral point of view. I’m sure you got your facts straight, but do you honestly think that -everyone- who’s ever had a transgender operation did so because their brains did not develop according to their body?

That’s like saying that everybody who goes out acting gay must be gay. Which, is obviously false. (To call on celebrities, Kurk Cobain said in an interview ‘I was gay in high school because there were no pretty ladies.’ In other words, ‘I wanted to freak people out.)

I understand that, with all of our modern medical capabilities, transgender transformations are becoming very realistic. However, they are not perfect as you would like to believe. That is simply a fact.

If nothing else there is always the flaw of having this man, now a woman, with the mental knowledge of what it feels like to have a penis. That alone has psychological effects that will keep him/her (I stand by accepting what you’re naturally born as so I use he for people who started male, but that’s just me) from ever being 100% like a true woman.

As far as your debauchery of the religion you assumed me to follow:

Don’t be absurd. Just because something doesn’t fit into the politics of our modern world does not mean it is morally incorrect. War is not an excuse for murder. If it was then we have a hell of a lot to say to Hitler! Social systems and politics cannot be relied to advocate morality.

So maybe morality is ‘old fashioned.’ Hell, let’s be honest, morality -is- beyond a shadow of a doubt old fashioned. But, this being said, I don’t care. I believe in standing up for what I think is right, even if I’m standing alone.

You’ll find in life that when you stand up and do what’s right your going to be shunned and ostracized. It’s like going up to a KKK member and saying, “Killing blacks is not right!” You think he’ll listen? You think he and his buddies are going to like you if you express your opinion that blacks are equal to whites? Hell no!

So with all that said you cannot renovate and build up what is right and wrong according to rather or not it is convenient to the time you live in!

All this said I do respect your opinions and you obviously know what you're talking about. You're just biased toward your side of it because it seems open minded and more politically aceptable.
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Posted 8/2/07

Dusterbayala wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


Dusterbayala wrote:

I have no porblem with transsexuals or transvestites.
*sings* 'cause i'm a sweet transvestite... from transexual... transalvaaaaaaaaannnnnnniaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

Ok... rocky horror moment over.

I have always believed that people should be true to themselves.
However... i've seen some men who can walk a hell of a lot better in 4" heels than i can.
So more power to 'em.



My God I think I love you! “I’m making myself a man, with blond hair and a tan. And he’s good for relieving my…tension!” Franken Furter is the friking best transvestite every! So “Let’s do the time warp agaaaiin.” :P

Anyhow, that’s a good point. But do you honestly think that changing who you are is being true to yourself? Maybe mentally and emotionally, but it’s the exact opposite physical. It’s like not being happy with what you were born with, in my opinion.


think about this... i've seen it in books and movies and tv shows.. but i know it's for real.
A child is born. As a hermaphrodite.
The parents have that moment to choose with sex the child is.
they pick a boy.
well fast forward 12 years.
the child is going through puberty and starts liking other boys.
But feels "wrong" somehow.
That child can either be a woman, like his parents should have chose a long time ago, or can feel compeltely alone and frustrated.
I think it would be better for the child, if they became a woman, don't you think?
That's being true to themselves.


That's actually the case for a friend of mine. She was born a hermaphrodite, turned into a boy, and then became a girl again, because that's what she knew she was supposed to be and is a lot happier as a girl. Though my religious beliefs would normally oppose sex changes and things of the sort, in this case, I believe it was definitely the right thing for her to do and she's happier having the body she wants.
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Posted 8/2/07
i personally think that a man should train themselves being a man and women should be a women. it's true they have that sort of brain thingy but it's either god or ur self desire. i choose god instead.
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Posted 8/2/07

Aegis85 wrote:

i personally think that a man should train themselves being a man and women should be a women. it's true they have that sort of brain thingy but it's either god or ur self desire. i choose god instead.


Yes, that’s true, but do you think that you could live up to your own standard in their circumstances?

I mean, you sin right? So is it completely fair to judge them for doing the same? Especially if they have a different religion. Don’t you think that’s pushing yourself on somebody else? Judging them because they have a different take on morality than you?
Posted 8/2/07
i think transsexuals want attention.
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Posted 8/2/07
^I think you are ignorant and narrow-minded.
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