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Suicide
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23 / M / Ogden, Utah
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Posted 1/9/13 , edited 1/10/13


Instead of whining about how shitty your life is why don't you do something about it instead of being a coward and asking for a hand out.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 1/10/13

The_Red_Hood wrote:

Instead of whining about how shitty your life is why don't you do something about it instead of being a coward and asking for a hand out.


What if there was nothing I could do about it?
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Posted 1/10/13

The_Red_Hood

Instead of whining about how shitty your life is why don't you do something about it instead of being a coward and asking for a hand out.


I don't think he was asking for a handout, and topics like these tend to be for the discussion of the subject and the reasons and motivations behind their behaviors. As such, this topic invites people to tells their stories and feelings on the matter. Insulting and calling the user a coward isn't adding anything to the discussion.
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Nun Ya
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Posted 1/10/13 , edited 1/10/13


Who's asking for a handout? I'm just saying your life could be a hell of a lot worse
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23 / M / Ogden, Utah
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Posted 1/11/13

lordseth23 wrote:


The_Red_Hood wrote:

Instead of whining about how shitty your life is why don't you do something about it instead of being a coward and asking for a hand out.


What if there was nothing I could do about it?


What's stopping you from doing anything about it? Is there some magical force that absolutely denies you from physically putting in effort to improve your situation?
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23 / M / Ogden, Utah
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Posted 1/11/13

MopZ wrote:


The_Red_Hood

Instead of whining about how shitty your life is why don't you do something about it instead of being a coward and asking for a hand out.


I don't think he was asking for a handout, and topics like these tend to be for the discussion of the subject and the reasons and motivations behind their behaviors. As such, this topic invites people to tells their stories and feelings on the matter. Insulting and calling the user a coward isn't adding anything to the discussion.


But sympathizing and enabling an attitude of "Instead of doing anything about improving my current situation, I'm just going to wait for it to magically fix itself" does?
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26 / M
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Posted 1/11/13
Any relative fool can make things bigger and more complex. However It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.

I have seen too many suicides in my line of work and i can tell you there is absolutely no courage in suicide, only cowardice. Don't over think your situation, live one day at a time and be hopeful of the future.

Good luck my friend and i hope you stay well.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 1/12/13 , edited 1/12/13
Should suicide really be considered cowardly if the person would be unable to improve their situation at any future point in their life? I get the feeling that everybody who considers all suicide as "cowardly" just have an unnecessary fear of death.
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23 / M / Ogden, Utah
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Posted 1/13/13

lordseth23 wrote:

Should suicide really be considered cowardly if the person would be unable to improve their situation at any future point in their life? I get the feeling that everybody who considers all suicide as "cowardly" just have an unnecessary fear of death.


Except that's the cowardice right there. Believing that you can't do anything to improve your situation. That's such bullshit. There is no such thing as an impossible to escape situations accept in theoretical situations where they are made as such. Suicide is a cowards way out of a situation that's too hard for somebody to handle, and refuses to get off their ass and do the work needed to get out of their "horrible" life, so they just give up like a loser who's to afraid to do any real heavy lifting.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 1/14/13

The_Red_Hood wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

Should suicide really be considered cowardly if the person would be unable to improve their situation at any future point in their life? I get the feeling that everybody who considers all suicide as "cowardly" just have an unnecessary fear of death.


Except that's the cowardice right there. Believing that you can't do anything to improve your situation. That's such bullshit. There is no such thing as an impossible to escape situations accept in theoretical situations where they are made as such. Suicide is a cowards way out of a situation that's too hard for somebody to handle, and refuses to get off their ass and do the work needed to get out of their "horrible" life, so they just give up like a loser who's to afraid to do any real heavy lifting.


How can you prove that they can do something to improve their situation?
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17 / F / Sweden
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Posted 1/14/13
I understand if committing suicide or trying to is seen as selfish. There are so many who gets left behind and their lives are destroyed. I can also understand if you choose to do it: when you're at the bottom and you feel like there is no other way out and you can't do it no more, you can't really think of those around you... That's how I see it.
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35 / M / Northern California
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Posted 1/14/13

lordseth23 wrote:


The_Red_Hood wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

Should suicide really be considered cowardly if the person would be unable to improve their situation at any future point in their life? I get the feeling that everybody who considers all suicide as "cowardly" just have an unnecessary fear of death.


Except that's the cowardice right there. Believing that you can't do anything to improve your situation. That's such bullshit. There is no such thing as an impossible to escape situations accept in theoretical situations where they are made as such. Suicide is a cowards way out of a situation that's too hard for somebody to handle, and refuses to get off their ass and do the work needed to get out of their "horrible" life, so they just give up like a loser who's to afraid to do any real heavy lifting.


How can you prove that they can do something to improve their situation?


The reverse is an equally valid question: How can you prove that every possible option has been exhausted? Just because they haven't thought of a series of steps to improve their situation, does not also mean that the process of improving is impossible. All it means is that they haven't thought of the idea on their own yet, and have given up on doing so. If they convince themselves that they can't, then they simply won't, and that act of quitting is where the cowardice factors in. To take it to the extent of suicide is a further extension of that selfish cowardice.

That is not the same as being physically unable to improve most elements of their situation. I must disagree with The_Red_Hood as far as impossible to escape situations go, however. I would say someone who is bed-bound, paralyzed on one side of their body, and has dementia can personally do little to improve their quality of life; this is my father's current situation, since a severe stroke in 2011. He can't do much of anything for himself, much less even sit up without aid, and there's no getting around that. My family and I have to give him his food through a feeding tube in his stomach, and there is no doubt that he would be unable to survive without assistance.

He still has moments of lucidity, for which we are grateful. While he has improved mentally since the stroke, many stroke patients see little improvement years into the recovery process. In my father's case, he has made some improvements in his speech capability and memory, but he is unlikely to ever regain mobility on his left side. If you ask him, he'd still take being alive and with his loving family, even in his current condition, over being dead.

Point is, some situations can't be made better through sheer determination and hard work, but I would definitely agree that those would be integral factors to improving the situations of most people. Courage greatly factors into that, of course.

It's making the determination that nothing can be done, of the options they have thought of so far, that leads to the cowardice. The problem with that line of thought is that attempting to think of other options is moot if one gives up in putting in any effort. So yes, it's cowardice; one who gives up is doing so out of fear, and to suggest that anyone who has a negative opinion of suicide just "fears death" hasn't dealt with survivor's guilt. (Granted, they might have known someone who committed suicide, but I mean that they never came to terms with what survivor's guilt is, even if they may have it.)

To further drive home the point, not all suicide is borne out of cowardice. Diving on a grenade to save the lives of fellow soldiers is suicidal for sure, but most rational people wouldn't see any hint of cowardice in that act of sacrifice. If anything, it would be courage.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 1/14/13 , edited 1/14/13

Spazticus wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


The_Red_Hood wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

Should suicide really be considered cowardly if the person would be unable to improve their situation at any future point in their life? I get the feeling that everybody who considers all suicide as "cowardly" just have an unnecessary fear of death.


Except that's the cowardice right there. Believing that you can't do anything to improve your situation. That's such bullshit. There is no such thing as an impossible to escape situations accept in theoretical situations where they are made as such. Suicide is a cowards way out of a situation that's too hard for somebody to handle, and refuses to get off their ass and do the work needed to get out of their "horrible" life, so they just give up like a loser who's to afraid to do any real heavy lifting.


How can you prove that they can do something to improve their situation?


The reverse is an equally valid question: How can you prove that every possible option has been exhausted? Just because they haven't thought of a series of steps to improve their situation, does not also mean that the process of improving is impossible. All it means is that they haven't thought of the idea on their own yet, and have given up on doing so. If they convince themselves that they can't, then they simply won't, and that act of quitting is where the cowardice factors in. To take it to the extent of suicide is a further extension of that selfish cowardice.



What if they had thought of a series of steps to improve their situation, and indeed had carried it out to the best of their ability? What if they had devised multiple plans throughout the course of their life? How many plans do they need to go through before they earn some respect for their attempts to acheive goals that most other people take for granted? To just call someone cowardly because you "think" that they are not trying hard, even though they may be a much harder working person than you will ever be, is just plain wrong.
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35 / M / Northern California
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Posted 1/14/13

lordseth23 wrote:

What if they had thought of a series of steps to improve their situation, and indeed had carried it out to the best of their ability? What if they had devised multiple plans throughout the course of their life? How many plans do they need to go through before they earn some respect for their attempts to acheive goals that most other people take for granted?

I answered that question, but I'll quote it for you in the spoiler tag below. Then again, they gave up, which negates much of the respect they might have earned. (You speak of respect like it's a commodity to be traded, when really, how much respect one has is moot once they're dead.) Self respect confers much more impact to me than how one is respected by others; then again, most people won't defer respect to those who don't respect themselves.


Stating the obvious here, but survivor's guilt sucks, for those who haven't had the "pleasure" of experiencing it. The effects can last for years afterwards, and they are compounded by the act itself often occurring for selfish reasons. Suicide is a cowardly act, under most (but not all) circumstances. The exceptions I'd note are cases where an act of self-sacrifice is intended to directly save the lives of others, in that moment (as per my last post) or if the person is in constant, debilitating pain due to an illness, and no viable medical options to alleviate the suffering are available.


To just call someone cowardly because you "think" that they are not trying hard, even though they may be a much harder working person than you will ever be, is just plain wrong.


Get off your high horse. Whether you've experienced survivor's guilt or not, you would willingly inflict it on anyone close to you, by committing suicide (if it were 100% effective, as you've noted.) That opinion negates most of the respect I would have for you as a person, yet I remain mostly civil. You wouldn't be saving anyone by that act; you'd just be giving up, and it's purely self-serving in your case. Your suggesting that someone is or isn't working harder than I am has no bearing whatsoever on whether they have my respect. People can be hard working, and still be total assholes, thus undeserving of my respect; the two can be mutually exclusive. Besides, if they're going about their lives with the specific goal of gaining respect from others, that goal is inherently selfish... Respect for the sake of respect, so to speak; and I don't have to give one whit of respect to that quality in others, just because they "work hard".

I can call someone cowardly because the act of suicide is usually motivated by cowardice, except as noted above.
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23 / M / Ogden, Utah
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Posted 1/15/13
Spazticus is basically on the same page as me, he's just more politically correct about it, so I'll leave this to him/her.
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27 / M / ロンドン、カナダ
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Posted 2/23/13
I've had friends and loved ones of mine commit suicide. While it was difficult for me, I respect their decision, and think it would be infinitely more selfish of me to demand that they had stayed alive purely for my own sake. Their life, their choice.


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