First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Post Reply Religion in anime
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 3/9/08 , edited 3/12/08
Well, this is a more casual topic than all the others-it’s the first that I’ve made in this group without turning it into a sticky. Well, this -is- Crunchy Roll, and while I do want to educate people, we must remember that the website is ultimately made for our entertainment. So, just some light hearted discussion.

I noticed that a lot of terms and names in anime come from the Shinto religion and Shinto relics. In DBZ, for example, the guardian of the earth is called Kami. Also, dig this picture:



Have you ever seen Mushishi? It's a great anime-and they even made a movie from it. Well, there are creatures called mushi in that-and mushi come in many breeds. Amongst these are A and UN, which live in the ears of people. A devour all noise and UN make so much noise that you can't hear anything else. A-Un is also the name of a two-headed monster in Inyuyasha.

Oh yeah, and in the Full Metal Alchemist movie they mention The Spear Of Longinus:



Which was supposed to have pierced Christ's side while he was on the cross.
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/1/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

Evangelion is filled with religious allusions. For example one of the weapons they use it the spear of longinus which you mention , the angels, and a loooot more. Some of less obvious stuff is pretty neat in my opinion.
Some examples:
Energy beams often shoot up in the shape of crosses.
The three magi computers are named Melchior, Balthazar and Casper after the three wise men who supposedly visited Jesus at his birth.
There are Hebrew symbols on the ceiling of Gendo's office.
The room of guf is mentioned. Traditionally the room of guf is where souls are waiting to be born in Jewish lore. After it is empty the end of the world and coming of the messiah are close.

Eva is so awesomely deep.


No, actually, it’s pretty shallow. Most of those references are pretty simple. I mean, I like that show, but it’s not so meaningful as you might think. Elementary religious references. Which isn’t to say that any of the references I mentioned were profound either.
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/1/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


No, actually, it’s pretty shallow. Most of those references are pretty simple. I mean, I like that show, but it’s not so meaningful as you might think. Elementary religious references. Which isn’t to say that any of the references I mentioned were profound either.

I disagree that eva is shallow. I do not think that all of the references are hard to spot. Some of them are quite obscure. What makes Evan deep is not just that it makes these allusions but the way in which the story weaves together. The complexity comes from the narrative. Do you really think that the End of Evangelion was shallow? Or the concepts behind the human instrumentality project (stolen from Arthur C. Clarkes novel childhoods end but yah) ? The freduian terms(you might not be familiar with some of them) ? The complexity of the characters? Are they all shallow. If you think that they are then I am afraid that you are wrong.



I agree that there are certain complexities within it, but many of these are only there to be complex. They just sit there and exist in their complicated existences and complicate things. That’s not profound, it’s just portrays the image of profundity by confusing. The story of the show itself isn’t profound at all, the theme amounts to mere platitudes-perhaps you might call it educational, but that doesn’t make it deep.

A history book is shallow. It has one face. There’s a lot of information in there, and it takes an educated man to write one, but it’s still not profound. In the same way, Eva comes out and tells you its message, instead of showing it. Just happens that they do so in a complicated way. It’s certainly confusing, but not profound.

What belongs to you but is used by other people most?

Your name. This, my friend, is a riddle. The answer isn’t something you would expect, but once you capture the answer its amusingly simple. The riddle confuses you by making you search for something more than what’s there, giving the illusion of profundity, but in all reality you’re simply inventing unnecessary meanings.

There’s no revolution of thought, not grand theological theme, just the recitation of worn out platitudes. Like you said, they make reference to psychological principles, Freudian concepts, and all that jazz…but that doesn’t make it profound. It just makes it informing.

Deep for an anime? Perhaps, but by my standards that’s still shallow. Which is why neither one of us are necessarily wrong. Because this is opinion, my friend. You’re being too black-and-white here. You assume that your measure of what’s profound is -the- measure, but from my perspective these things are simple and easy to grasp.

I loved that anime. There were signs of literary skill in the writers. I will agree that the characters were realistically complex-perhaps even deep with their own sentiments, but the storyline and theme themselves were more or else amalgams of already easily attained philosophy. Then, there is the scientific meaning behind some of what they say, but again-that doesn’t mean it’s profound, and in any-case the science within that show was a bloody joke.

Creator
57774 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / canada
Offline
Posted 4/1/08 , edited 4/18/08
The cat kept me up half the night raiding my garbage, so my brain is fogged right now, but I see tons of religious (not necessarily Christian) reference in almost all of the anime I've seen. I don't mean the fluff...like, say, "Please Teacher", but more in Spiral, FMA, Deathnote. Unfortunately, I can't reference it for you because they are all licenced, and I can't get a hold of them (and at least nod at legallity as I saunter by). I do remember finding a lot of depth to them.
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/1/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

I never said profound. I said "deep" . the Ruth Goldbergian aspects are deep in and of themselves.


Profound:
very deep: extending to or situated at a great depth
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


I'm not familiar with the term Ruth Goldbergian, could you educate me via PM, I wanna learn.
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

Something profound is always deep but something deep may lack the impact to be profound.


Ruth Goldergian refers to the famosu Ruth Golderberg. An artist who drew large complicated designs of machines tht could do simple tasks such a flip a light switch , and made them complex for the sake of complexity. A "ruth goldberd" device.



Again, and arguement of semantics. Yes, it was deep by that internets definition. As for the Ruth Goldberg...

?


^The only thing deep about that is the amount of blood that gathers on the ground-from your eyes, after watching the bloody thing for too long.
46535 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08
Meh the religious references are more of a bonus than a feature. The Anime's forte is the psychological content.

Assistant director of Evangelion, Kazuya Tsurumaki:


"There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice." ― Kazuya Tsurumaki


http://www.evaotaku.com/html/evafaq.html


Is there religious meaning to Evangelion?

A) No. Evangelion is not, and never was a religious anime and does not contain any direct commentary on the world's religions. The Judeo-Christian elements it contains are simply plot devices used to convey the story. Nothing more.

The cross shaped explosions, the Kabalah, and all other references do have religious roots and do have relevance to Evangelion but it is very important to remember that Eva is a work of fiction and should not have it's symbols taken that seriously. I think that Mamorou Oshii (director of "Ghost in The Shell" and "Patlabor") described religious elements in anime best when he said "These are used as the prototype for the stories; not for religious reasons, but for ideology and literary inspiration".

Finally, at the Otakon anime convention held in 2001, assistant director Kazuya Tsurumaki (who was the director of The End of Evangelion: Episode 25' Air - while Anno personally undetook The End of Evangelion: Episode 26' Sincerely Yours and acted as Chief Director) was asked directly what relvance Christianity had to Evangelion. This was his reply:

Tsurumaki: There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice.

So, while Evangelion's basic plot elements are borrowed from some religious texts and myths, they merely act as inspiration for a different story. They are just there for aesthetics. Evangelion also borrowed several elements from earlier Tomino anime shows. Evangelion owes more to Ideon, than it does to Revelation.
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08
How the heck did you find that junk? To be honset, I wouldn't even know where to serach!
46535 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08
^ I just know a guy who use to come up with so much nonsese about the use of religion in that show, and he will never shut up about it, so I was forced to search it. Luckliy it was on a reference used in the wikipedia article about evangelion.
46535 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08
Yep that's true. No position was taken on my post, just pointing out something.
__________________________________________________________________

Chrono Crusade, is it religious? it sounds religious but I have not seen it.
Hellsing has religion....somewhat >_>

Hmm what else, Saint Seiya but that's more mythological than religious, yet still applies to this thread I think. I watched a few episodes, ( I was 10 years old, so give me a break for watching such a bad series >_>) and there was this Shakka dude who displayed heavy Buddhist influences which I found interesting.

From some website I just Googled


When Shaka faces his final battle on Earth, he takes his opponents to a beautiful garden with twin Sala trees. When the historical Buddha finally reached full enlightenment and left this world, he is said to have laid down beneath twin Sala trees. Shaka has been invincible until now. But he allows his adversaries to kill him, because now it’s time for him to move on to a higher metaphysical level. One of the secrets that he has always known, is that death is not the end of all things. The doctrine of non-duality is pervasive through all Buddhist schools. Life and death are not two opposing things.

Right before he dies, Shaka writes the words “Asraya Consciousness”. Asraya paravitti is a Vijnanavada concept. It describes the process of replacing the levels of consciousness described earlier, with equivalent levels of awareness. Reality is an illusion constructed by the mind, but once one realises that there is no self, then the limits of reality fall away, and things like life and death become irrelevant. The structure rests on the five senses, but there are no real objects, nor is there real perception... and so on, up through the levels, one recognises that everything is fundamentally empty, and what have seemed to be phenomena, are merely dependant arisings. As a person increases one’s awareness and one’s wisdom, one is able to do this. This, according to the Vijnanavada school, is the process of attaining enlightenment.


Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08

SeraphAlford wrote:

Well, this is a more casual topic than all the others-it’s the first that I’ve made in this group without turning it into a sticky. Well, this -is- Crunchy Roll, and while I do want to educate people, we must remember that the website is ultimately made for our entertainment. So, just some light hearted discussion.

I noticed that a lot of terms and names in anime come from the Shinto religion and Shinto relics. In DBZ, for example, the guardian of the earth is called Kami. Also, dig this picture:



Have you ever seen Mushishi? It's a great anime-and they even made a movie from it. Well, there are creatures called mushi in that-and mushi come in many breeds. Amongst these are A and UN, which live in the ears of people. A devour all noise and UN make so much noise that you can't hear anything else. A-Un is also the name of a two-headed monster in Inyuyasha.

Oh yeah, and in the Full Metal Alchemist movie they mention The Spear Of Longinus:



Which was supposed to have pierced Christ's side while he was on the cross.


"The Spear of Longinus," didn't Hitler want that artifact saying it belonged to a very famous Aryan knight in German folklore? (Sorry that I'm off topic)
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08

Kaminari12 wrote:

"The Spear of Longinus," didn't Hitler want that artifact saying it belonged to a very famous Aryan knight in German folklore? (Sorry that I'm off topic)


Well, Hitler’s family was Catholic, and he loved to flaunt this around to win Christian support. He called himself a Catholic, but many scholars argue rather or not he was a true believer or he was simply using this as a political crutch. Like Alexander the great, who claimed to be divine. Did Alexander truly believe himself a God, or did he simply portray that image to create loyalty? After all, who would appose a God? Similarly, Hitler may have “played” Catholic so that his followers would assume his intentions were good and so that he could relate with Christian supporters.

The point is that, it’s very possible that Hitler knew about and even searched for a Christian artifact.
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08
D.Gray-Man has some vague religious symbols in it. The Dark Order's emblem is the Sepher Yetzirah wheel, supposedly the key to infinite wisdom in Kabbalistic numerology. I may be the only person alive who would recognize that symbol though. Like Evangellion the symbol seems to have no significance in the show except that it's mysterious and foreign to Japan, and thus might seem interesting.

D.Gray-Man seems to only mention God and Noah, and that's pretty much it.

Evangellion also featured the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, yet I don't think it contained a single reference to Kabbalism beyond that. There seemed to be absolutely no meaning whatsoever to having the kabbalistic tree of life in the show, and it has nothing to do with Christianity unless you buy the idea that Jesus was a Kabbalist (which is possible since he supposedly spent so much time talking to rabbis, though I know of no historical evidence to back that theory.)
Member
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/3/08 , edited 4/18/08

shibole wrote:

D.Gray-Man has some vague religious symbols in it. The Dark Order's emblem is the Sepher Yetzirah wheel, supposedly the key to infinite wisdom in Kabbalistic numerology. I may be the only person alive who would recognize that symbol though. Like Evangellion the symbol seems to have no significance in the show except that it's mysterious and foreign to Japan, and thus might seem interesting.

D.Gray-Man seems to only mention God and Noah, and that's pretty much it.

Evangellion also featured the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, yet I don't think it contained a single reference to Kabbalism beyond that. There seemed to be absolutely no meaning whatsoever to having the kabbalistic tree of life in the show, and it has nothing to do with Christianity unless you buy the idea that Jesus was a Kabbalist (which is possible since he supposedly spent so much time talking to rabbis, though I know of no historical evidence to back that theory.)


Well Kabala is just the mystic side of Judaism. (That word, mystic, bares a lot of inaccurate connotation to it, mind you.) The tree of life is actually a part of Christianity. Actually, I believe there was a Christian writer who used that is the corner-stone of some novel or screen-play. In the story his character sets out searching for the Tree of Life spoken of in the bible. It -does- relate to Christianity just as any other biblical item does. Like the staff of Moses, Sword of Solomon, ext. It doesn’t have anything to do with the message of the religion though.
46535 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 4/2/08 , edited 4/18/08

Kaminari12 wrote:

"The Spear of Longinus," didn't Hitler want that artifact saying it belonged to a very famous Aryan knight in German folklore? (Sorry that I'm off topic)


The thing is, there were so many 'holy spear and lances' each claiming to be the 'authentic one'. Same with many of the religious relics during the medieval periods.

Hitler wanted a lance that had some connection with the Constantines, and the roman empire or something like that. I think he believed getting it was going to help him win the war. He was into a lot of occult nonsense...
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.