First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply What is a Katana?
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/15/08 , edited 3/22/08
[Just for those who really don't know what a Katana is or who might be confused on the specifics and/or those who want to have a discussion or friendly debate.]

First I'll start by saying what a Katana is NOT.

A Katana is NOT a "Samurai Sword."
A Katana is NOT a Tachi.
A Katana is NOT a Toy.
A Katana is NOT made of stainless steel.
A Katana does NOT transform into a giant sword that is bigger than the wielder.
A Katana does NOT have magic powers.
A Katana is NOT the greatest sword on earth.
A Katana is NEVER straight. ["Ninja Swords" never existed historically.]
A Katana is hardly ever used to parry or block another sword.

What IS a katana?
A Katana IS a Shinken. [Though a Shinken is not always a Katana]
A Katana IS a Daito. [Though a Daito is not always a Katana]
A Katana IS a durable cutting sword which in use is very effective at killing.
A Katana IS a Dangerous Weapon that should be taken seriously at all times and not played with.

Specifications:
First off, calling it a "Samurai Sword" is as silly and stupid as calling a Peacmaker Revolver a "Cowboy Gun" or an arming sword a "Knight Sword." Furthermore aside from being silly and incorrect, it was not used alone by the samurai until the Sword Prohibition Act and even then I am sure some were in secret possession.
Shinken just means "Live Blade" which is not always a Katana. First off, a Katana was worn edge up thrust through an Obi. A "Katana" had very strict measurement rules. If it wasn't constrained to those specific rules, it wasn't a katana. What about a tachi? A tachi is a sword similar to a Katana but with more of a curve and it is worn with fittings to armor edge down. A tachi certainly isn't a Katana, but people often mix them up. Or you can be very vague and list "Daito" which means "Long Sword"

Technically, "Katana" is the only real word for a "Katana." Informally, you can call it whatever you want, but you'd be incorrect. I for one am rarely informal.

So you can list Daito, Tachi, Shinken, and it would all point to a sharpened long sword, but a Katana is in a league of it's own.

Furthermore, one can NOT use a katana properly without formal instruction from a certified instructor. You can NOT learn swordsmanship from books or videos or movies or clips. Only a certified instructor can teach you swordsmanship. To wield a sword without instruction from a certified instructor proses a danger to not only yourself but to anyone and anything around you. Wielding a stainless steel blade is dangerous as well but for the fact that it is not proper metal for a sword, which is why they are called "Wallhangers" and not "Swords" and can break with little resistance as seen in this very real (and funny) clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2EQWCpnIR8

Feel free to comment, have a friendly debate, and add you're own information.
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/15/08
Oh and I would advise against Trueswords.com mentioned in the main page. They are not high quality. Most of them are made of stainless steel which makes them wallhangers not swords.

If you want a REAL sword, check out Bugei.com, Seikeido.com, or Nipponto.co.jp

I cannot advise anyone to use a real sword for anything other than decoration without professional training.
There is no possible way to learn swordsmanship or any martial arts for that matter from any book, video, or any other method other than enlisting the tutelage of a certified instructor. Using a sword without just such poses a threat to the wielder and anyone or anything around the wielder. If you are prepared to fork over money for a real sword, be prepared to fork over money for instruction.
Member
710 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / In the Hearts and...
Offline
Posted 3/16/08
Hey wait a minute, how can you say that its NOT a samurai sword,
it was used by samurais wasn't it.
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/16/08
Yes but it wasn't exlusive to the samurai.
It's like calling a revolver a "Cowboy Gun" it's just silly.
10476 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / I go where Ryu go...
Offline
Posted 3/22/08
hmmm, how very interesting. Assuming its correct- thank you for your information.
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/22/08

Macedonian wrote:

hmmm, how very interesting. Assuming its correct- thank you for your information.


If you don't find something to be correct, feel free to have a friendly debate.
If there's anything you doubt, I'll provide accurate sources to cite my points.
10476 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / I go where Ryu go...
Offline
Posted 3/25/08
I never said it wasnt correct. Lots of it is common knoledge- but I did learn a few new things after reading it.

I do suggest you post your sources anyways. People who will be prone to debate with you over things such as this are by no means firendly. They are what we call flamers and are they ever annoying. So, before someone casts their completely sigle minded and unbeleveably stupid comments on you- its better not to even give them a chance.
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/25/08
Ah I don't care. I don't have any sources as this came from my own experience and the article is original, but if someone wants to have a debate or a discussion and they truly disagree and request sources, I'll have to search for some.



Macedonian wrote:
They are what we call flamers and are they ever annoying.


I know what flamers are. I am in no way a newcomer to the internet. They only annoy ones that let themselves become annoyed over such things so trivial. I remember encountering my first of this sort on IRC around 95 or 96. If someone tries to insult me, I usually just laugh and shrug it off or if I am bored, I might combat it with simple logic. Such a thing is fun sometimes. It's the internet. I'm not worried.
Creator
1687 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / North Carolina
Offline
Posted 3/25/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

Ah I don't care. I don't have any sources as this came from my own experience and the article is original, but if someone wants to have a debate or a discussion and they truly disagree and request sources, I'll have to search for some.

I know what flamers are. I am in no way a newcomer to the internet. I remember encountering my first of this sort on IRC around 95 or 96. If someone tries to insult me, I usually just laugh and shrug it off or if I am bored, I might combat it with simple logic. Such a thing is fun sometimes. It's the internet. I'm not worried.


I agree with you philosphy. By the way, thanks for contributing to the group
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/26/08
Thank you.

For a reason as to why I do this is thus; I just find the over mysticism of things like Samurai, Katana, and such a GREAT discredit to them. Or moreso if I may be so radical; the raping of truth.

For example; Ninja started out to be spies often times dressing as an old beggar monk or a servant to listen in on people. Now the general view of Ninja are those in the black puppeteer outfit with a straight "Ninjato" (which never existed) and they now are predominantly assassins who jump (or teleport) around, jumping from tree to tree throwing multi-point shuriken at enemies.

Of course this image came from movies and anime and such. However, now people believe it is the actual historic view of things! We have lost our touch on reality. When that happens we cannot see things for what they are and see the beauty in that. No we have to over mystify something and try and make it more interesting. Anime and Movies are fun, but they misrepresent things. That's not bad, the thing that IS bad is so many people confuse them with reality. That is my crusade; to bring truth where truth does not exist.

Another example of how such things discredit history; McDojos now spring up teaching "Mystical" arts like Dim-Mak, Ninjutsu, and it sells. Now martial arts have been degraded by such things and fewer and fewer authentic traditional training halls exist a little less each day. THIS should be a crime.
This is one out of VERY few things that angers me. It's a disgusting practice to turn something pure into something that is purely for profit and rips off people who are not knowledgeable enough to know the difference.

Now you see why I keep it real on these forums? Because hopefully someone, maybe just one person in all the people I've spoken about this with. Just maybe they might take it to mind and not get ripped off and feed a disgusting practice that tarnishes and destroys a once vibrant community, a community I love.

Such a thing is not unlike fighting for one's country. People fight, often at sacrifice to ones self, to protect something. Just as I fight, often at sacrifice to my pride and image, to protect something. I sacrifice my image and pride so that the Samurai long dead can regain theirs again.

I am not against anything but misconceptions and distortions of truth. I use my knowledge to hopefully benefit others.

I like anime. I like talking about anime. However the anime which are inspired or based around historical events should be compared with reality. This group; "Katana Lovers" shouldn't it be about katana in Anime, Manga, and Real Life? To have such a versatile name, wouldn't it be beneficial to likewise have versatile content?
Member
5745 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / F / dont know.....
Offline
Posted 3/26/08
if you want to teach someone about katana or ninjas.... it is better to write about its historical beggining.... that way they will understand

why it was created and how it is now...
as for ninja in japan was someone specially trained in a variety of arts of war... never used before....
The methods used by ninja included assassination, espionage, and a variety of martial arts. In the Japanese culture, they were usually trained for dangerous missions. Their exact origins are still unknown. It is though that hey did sabotage, espionage, scouting and assassination missions as a way to destabilize and cause social chaos in enemy territory or against an opposing ruler, perhaps in the service of their feudal rulers (daimyo, shogun), or an underground ninja organization waging guerilla warfare.

Ninjas as a group first began to be written about in 15th century feudal Japan as martial organizations predominately in the regions of Iga and Koga of central Japan, though the practice of guerrilla warfare and undercover espionage operations goes back much further.[citation needed]

At this time, the conflicts between the clans of daimyo that controlled small regions of land had established guerrilla warfare and assassination as a valuable alternative to frontal assault. Since Bushido, the Samurai Code, forbade such tactics as dishonorable, a daimyo could not expect his own troops to perform the tasks required; thus, he had to buy or broker the assistance of ninja to perform selective strikes, espionage, assassination, and infiltration of enemy strongholds.

10476 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / I go where Ryu go...
Offline
Posted 3/26/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

Ah I don't care. I don't have any sources as this came from my own experience and the article is original, but if someone wants to have a debate or a discussion and they truly disagree and request sources, I'll have to search for some.



Macedonian wrote:
They are what we call flamers and are they ever annoying.


I know what flamers are. I am in no way a newcomer to the internet. They only annoy ones that let themselves become annoyed over such things so trivial. I remember encountering my first of this sort on IRC around 95 or 96. If someone tries to insult me, I usually just laugh and shrug it off or if I am bored, I might combat it with simple logic. Such a thing is fun sometimes. It's the internet. I'm not worried.


I do allow myself to be annoyed actually If someone says or does something very wrong. It just affirms that i am human. I'm not one to argue though personally. I just write a long post explaining why they are wrong. I usually insult ideas not people- you could say that for the most part, I'm dosile. However, if a person was to anger me- then I have no problem disproving them.

exhibit a) http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-143078/Do-you-want-to-be-cremated-or-buried-in-the-ground.html?pg=2

I do personally hate flamers- they make a place that should be relaxing into a hostile environment. It is a great annoyance when all that your trying to do is get an idea across... I guess you could say that I'm kinda mini flaming right now 0_0

Anyways, sry if i incinuated that you were new to the internet- that was not my intention. The line itself was meant to be read sarcastically.
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/26/08

patty_mara wrote:

as for ninja in japan was someone specially trained in a variety of arts of war... never used before....
The methods used by ninja included assassination, espionage, and a variety of martial arts. In the Japanese culture, they were usually trained for dangerous missions. Their exact origins are still unknown. It is though that hey did sabotage, espionage, scouting and assassination missions as a way to destabilize and cause social chaos in enemy territory or against an opposing ruler, perhaps in the service of their feudal rulers (daimyo, shogun), or an underground ninja organization waging guerilla warfare.

Ninjas as a group first began to be written about in 15th century feudal Japan as martial organizations predominately in the regions of Iga and Koga of central Japan, though the practice of guerrilla warfare and undercover espionage operations goes back much further.[citation needed]

At this time, the conflicts between the clans of daimyo that controlled small regions of land had established guerrilla warfare and assassination as a valuable alternative to frontal assault. Since Bushido, the Samurai Code, forbade such tactics as dishonorable, a daimyo could not expect his own troops to perform the tasks required; thus, he had to buy or broker the assistance of ninja to perform selective strikes, espionage, assassination, and infiltration of enemy strongholds.



That is not entirely correct, though it is a widely circulated story.

"Ninja", or more properly "Shinobi no mono" were not trained in "Arts of war" nor where they assassins.
Proof exists in the Jintonpo; the following consists of Espionage, Disguise, and Infiltration arts. No martial arts, no killing arts.

They existed before the the sengoku-jidai, but their origin is unknown. Before the sengoku area, a "ninja" was not known as a "ninja" but rather nin-sha means "Concealed Identity" or "Concealed person" and oftentimes in this time, you could pay a peasant to go listen in on someone. Such a thing was handy in warfare to find out the plans of enemies, but much information gathered consisted of rumors.

In the sengoku-jidai, the use of these spies were increased naturally. Schools popped up teaching how to disguise oneself and to act. The most common was to disguise oneself as a beggar monk. One of the less common ones (which was the only "Mystical" looking one) was a puppeteer's outfit which is now incorrectly called a "Ninja Uniform" which was actually just a disguise. These people trained in making disguises, wearing disguises, and acting inconspicuous aided in espionage. No accounts of these people employing in assassination are apparent. The province of Iga did house some of these schools. Generally Iga was a place that tried to claim a peaceful seperation from the outside turmoil. When the province was the target of attacks, the civilians started learning some martial arts. Namely Bojutsu and sometimes Jujutsu. Along with the civilians, some shinobi no mono also learned it to protect themselves. However, as there is no need for combat in the job of a shinobi no mono, there is no room for martial arts in ninjutsu and which is why there is no evidence of such and which is why the Jintonpo is strictly espionage.

There still is no historic accounts of these people employing assassination arts or being employed for such events.
10476 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / I go where Ryu go...
Offline
Posted 3/26/08
Do you have all this information memorized, there is quite a bit...

So ninjas werent trained to use blades then...the media has also greatly misproportioned the fighting arts of ninjas as well. They completely disregard grappleing on any media about Ninjas which is a key component of Jujutsu... Well I guess its because two people rolling on the ground isn't all that pretty...

Your doing a good job of drumming up conversation- keep up the good work. Maybe this group will grow a little.
4444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / In your dreams...
Offline
Posted 3/26/08
I have an eidetic memory. I can pull up things with ease. I said somewhere before that I minored in East Asian Culture (History and Anthropology) in college 5 years of class and I've studied on my own for years and years before that.

Yes the media has greatly made a mess of things. Sure fantasy is fun, but as I said earlier, many take the representations of the media to heart and actually believe they are as they are.

Yes I am an assistant instructor of koryu Jujutsu (and Iaijutsu) myself with nearly 7 years of experience and a rank of Okuden and I hardly ever see Jujutsu in anime, manga, tv, and movies. It's far older and holds greater technical lethality than karatedo or taekwondo (which both have only recently appeared. Around the 1800's.)

Thanks. I really hope this group grows more. I like it, you guys are cool too. I can finally have an intelligent conversation!
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.