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Do You Like Lolicons??!!
Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

Kohou wrote:


bluefox wrote:


Kohou wrote:
2) Also stop using the fem. lolicon (as in lolicon-bait) to assume it means we're all fapping to Elfen Leid's Nana. She's a lolicon-type. She's got big eyes, small tits, a childish personality. She wears little to no clothing. It's like saying someone is jailbait, or a whore. It doesn't always mean they're doing anything sexually. It's a typification.


Sorry man, that was me. Since I rarely use English in my daily conversations, I suffer from a poor vocabulary. I learned something new today >.<

We have the same views on this matter as well, and since I'm unable to express my thoughts clearly, I very much appreciate your doing so.



No, I'm referring to this:

mrsentimental wrote:


RenegadeDx wrote:


harrisan123 wrote:

havent seen a loli anime character


Here is an examples @_@


Well, this is a helpful picture. I don't particularly see any sex stuff here. Just a bunch of cute kids. If a lolicon guy wants to have sex fantasies about this, well, that's their own thing. This picture, thankfully, doesn't appear to be encouraging younger kids to dress or pose in any sexy ways, where others I've seen here and other places DO seem to give off that kind of encouragement to younger kids. So, if this is all that Lolicon stuff is about, I'm OK with it. But the other more sexy pictures of kids is really too much like child porn. Get rid of that stuff!!!


among other things. Using the term Loli-character. and then he made the comment in bold. That's what I'm taking issue with. The fact that he used loli-type (or lolicon-bait, if you'd like) to mean loli-hentai.

Actually, bluefox, your stuff was quite impressive. If you hadn't made that post about "we're into admiring the amazing cuteness displayed by girls and hope that they have neoteny so they can keep said traits even as they grow into the age of majority. And we're not into breasts." I probably wouldn't have spoken up. I just didn't like seeing him twisting such a wonderful explanation up like putty.


seeing the pic made me puke... no offense to lolis...
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

bluefox wrote:


Kohou wrote:
Actually, bluefox, your stuff was quite impressive. If you hadn't made that post about "we're into admiring the amazing cuteness displayed by girls and hope that they have neoteny so they can keep said traits even as they grow into the age of majority. And we're not into breasts." I probably wouldn't have spoken up. I just didn't like seeing him twisting such a wonderful explanation up like putty.


I'm sure that wasn't me. Even though I'm into petankkos(small-breasted women) myself, I wouldn't wish a girl to go into neoteny. It would pose difficulties for her(and her man) in the future.



I didn't mean I wish they had neoteny, I'm just pointing out neoteny as another part of the lolita convention. But it didn't sound that way, did it?

That was some stupidity on my part and I apologize.

Though my cousin does have neoteny, and may I say (along with her coworkers) that she is rather cute, which may be part of the reason why I'm not against it.
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

bluefox wrote:


Kohou wrote:
Actually, bluefox, your stuff was quite impressive. If you hadn't made that post about "we're into admiring the amazing cuteness displayed by girls and hope that they have neoteny so they can keep said traits even as they grow into the age of majority. And we're not into breasts." I probably wouldn't have spoken up. I just didn't like seeing him twisting such a wonderful explanation up like putty.


I'm sure that wasn't me. Even though I'm into petankkos(small-breasted women) myself, I wouldn't wish a girl to go into neoteny. It would pose difficulties for her(and her man) in the future.



Oops, wrong person. You're right.

The most fundamental flaw in your argument is that you think that to lolicons, young girls = sexy. The thing is, majority of the lolicon populace(especially those outside Japan) view them as cute, just like most people. The disturbing part would be that they favor them over the those that mainstream finds sexually attractive. Mainstream then concludes that those lolicon find the young girls attractive the same way they do with what they think is sexually attractive.


That is the one you posted that I liked. I had grabbed a double quote of yours by mistake when I was going for this one. My hearty apologies.

*Perhaps I'm mis-understanding neoteny. Doesn't it also refer to an adult with child-like features (i.e. underdeveloped breats, lack of hair, etc.), not necessarily underdeveloped sexual organs?
Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08
well because its drawn and real kids aren't being put in sexual situations im ok with it
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

Kohou wrote:

*Perhaps I'm mis-understanding neoteny. Doesn't it also refer to an adult with child-like features (i.e. underdeveloped breats, lack of hair, etc.), not necessarily underdeveloped sexual organs?


That's the one, though breast development doesn't necessarily fall under neoteny and may vary for other reasons.
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

leon007 wrote:

Wow ,so Lolicons means such things. Well obviously it
is very disturbing and should ban/remove them permanently


I´m afraid that it´s already to late. Lolicon is already a well established genre in the Anime and Manga industry, ban that and it will be a disaster for the Anime and Manga industry
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08
mmmm delicuz cake

you're all weeaboos whining over things that arent your business anyway

like im sure any of you are fine with someone who's gay.

but if their into lolis their suddenly disgusting.

<3 loli
<3 dfc

also, everyone trying to get all intellectual about it..tl;dr
loli is not disturbing. :3


Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08



You are a genius, i spent 5 mins of my life reading through all that, and I am humbled by your word usage,
you sound like a seasoned lawyer, your argumentative and linguistic ability dwarf mine by leaps and bounds.

you are an Epic Win, and i dont say that to just anyone
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

mangoku wrote:




You are a genius, i spent 5 mins of my life reading through all that, and I am humbled by your word usage,
you sound like a seasoned lawyer, your argumentative and linguistic ability dwarf mine by leaps and bounds.

you are an Epic Win, and i dont say that to just anyone


proof that big words and long paragraphs always impress somebody :P


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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08
XDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXDDX

past 20 pages in 2 DAYS I R WIN

LULZ
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08
~It's the Pedo, not the loli that should be annihilated....

Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

akosimaia wrote:

ohhhh so that's what lolicon meant... i didn't know that

but i completely agree with you... jeez, i never knew there were people who'd be like that


i kno dude i didnt kno eithr but thn again im against the whole "ohh im aroused by cute little kids" thing but i lik little kids just not lik phedophiles do hehe WTF R UP WITH PEEPS THESE DAYS!!!
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08
WHAT THATS WAT LOLLICON IS!? I heard about it from oreun high school host club and i thought it ment chibi!! (bakabakabaka!!!)
Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

Sethsun wrote:


mangoku wrote:




You are a genius, i spent 5 mins of my life reading through all that, and I am humbled by your word usage,
you sound like a seasoned lawyer, your argumentative and linguistic ability dwarf mine by leaps and bounds.

you are an Epic Win, and i dont say that to just anyone


proof that big words and long paragraphs always impress somebody :P




YEAH DUDE I KNO lik hes way of telling som1 off and its tru big words can impress som1 hehe and to the dude who wrote teh long comment with the big words u r awesome and a gr8 wrtir KEEP IT UP hehe
Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

animeannie wrote:

WHAT THATS WAT LOLLICON IS!? I heard about it from oreun high school host club and i thought it ment chibi!! (bakabakabaka!!!)


it okay hehe thats wat i thought at first too! but now i kno and im amazed hehe
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

Kohou wrote:


mrsentimental wrote:


von_hom-chan wrote:



Yup. This is the kind of lolicon stuff that is bad. You want your 7 year old sister acting like this? How about your 5 year old daughter?


First of all, the irony of this is overwhelming. The point of this picture is: IF you say it's lolicon, then you see that girl as behaving sexually, which means you are reading sexuality into it. In other words, it's a reflection of your own inner thoughts, a Loli-Rorschach if you will. This is, objectively, a picture of a girl who's lying on an ottoman, and whose skirt rode up. Happened to my sister many times.

Next point: neoteny vs. pedophilia. You people keep saying that liking loli-esque adults is also sick, because we want them to be children, so we can do to adults what we can't do to children. Sorry, but that's BS. For one thing, how the hell would you know? Some of us, like myself, simply happen to like girls with small breasts. I don't care if they're 12, 18, or 35. I find large breasted women unattractive. Which is why I tend to like Asians in the first place. So no, it isn't that they're child-like or childish. It's the fact that they're small breasted.
Point 2 on this case: my friend is highly anti-loli. Hates the thought of it. His wife suffers from neoteny. Does this make him a pedophile? No. It means his wife is under-developed. Therefore, does liking women with neotany automatically make one a pedophile? No.

Third point. Is Lolicon pedophilia? Well, I think it would be appropriate to define EXACTLY what pedophilia is:

The term paedophilia erotica was coined in 1886 by the Viennese psychiatrist Richard von Krafft-Ebing in his writing Psychopathia Sexualis.[6] He gave the following characteristics:

* The sexual interest is toward pre-pubescent youths only. This interest does not extend to the first signs of pubic hair.
* The sexual interest is toward pre-pubescent youths only and does not include teenagers.
* The sexual interest remains over time.

(Bolds mine, Wikipedia)
In ADDITION:

The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its "Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia":[25]

* A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger);
* B. The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty;
* C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

(Bolds mine, ibid)

Now, as more than one person has already stated, many of the characters classified as loli-types are over the age of thirteen, many of them are over the age of majority. Therefore, people who have a SEXUAL attraction to those characters ARE NOT PEDOPHILES!

Point 4: Is it sexual attraction? Well, as I've already stated, yes, I'm sexually attracted to small breasts. However, do ALL small breasted women attract me? No. MrSentimental, you keep saying that lolicons are sexually attracted to all lolicons. Bulls**t. 1) Just like everyone else, we have preferences. 2) When you watch I dunno, Elfen Leid, are you sexually attracted to the characters there? I'm not. I find Lucy physically attractive, and the little girl adorable, but I'm not sexually attracted to them. 3) Likewise, I work with a number of small-breasted women. I'm not sexually attracted to them. I'm good acquaintences, we socialize, I enjoy working with them. I consider quite a few physically attractive Wouldn't want to screw any of them. 4) Thus, just as I'm not attracted to every woman that fits my criteria, and I don't scope them out (for various reasons), and just as you, I assume, don't want to f**k every woman that moves, lolis are not attracted to EVERY loli-type sexually.

Point 5: Is it sexual attraction? (part deux) Maybe for some. Personally, some of the "loli" characters that I'm attracted to, it has nothing to do with sexuality. For instance, the series Kanon, which you may have heard of, or may not, doesn't matter. It features a boy who goes to school with a bunch of girls, and eventually falls in love with one of them. It's a harem series, much like any other, except that it's much sadder. It's my favorite series, and I feel attraction for (bordering on love for, if that's possible) the characters in that series. I am not attracted to them physically, I'm not attracted to them sexually. I am attracted to them because they are tragic characters, they are funny characters, or they otherwise have incredibly emotional stories. Now, at least 3 of the characters in that series are loli-types (small breasts, large eyes, under the age of majority). And, as I said, I love these characters. I cry when they die, and I laugh when they win. I also happen to find them cute, and good looking and prefer their appearance to the characters in Eiken. If they switched them, I'd never have watched Kanon. Does this make my desire inappropriate?

Point 6: I note, mrsentimental, that you've picked up heavily on the SEX part of the Wiki article, but you missed some of the other part, what we call CONTEXT.
Let me help you here:

Lolicon (ロリコン, Lolicon?), also romanized as rorikon, is a slang portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita complex".In Japan, the term describes an attraction to young girls, or an individual with such an attraction.Outside Japan, the term is less common and most often refers to a genre of manga and anime wherein childlike female characters are depicted in an erotic manner.

(bolds mine, ibid)
In other words, IN JAPAN the word refers to attraction to young girls, not simply SEXUAL attraction. The stuff you're referring to, the girls in sexy poses is the WESTERN term for lolicon. So from here out, let's distinguish. Loli-hentai shall henceforth refer to fapping to young girls. Lolicon shall henceforth be an aesthetic appreciation of the cuteness/attractiveness of young girls. Because, I hate to tell you, as an older brother, I find my sister cute. I don't consider her sexually attractive, nor would I fap to her. But she's physically attractive.

Physical attractiveness is the perception of the physical traits of an individual human person as pleasing or beautiful.
Note that nothing is said there about sexuality. We find them attractive. Not always sexual.


The "kawaii" style (which in Western terms could roughly be translated as "tiny is cute") is extremely popular in Japan, where it is present in all the manga/anime styles.[12] The school-aged girl in a school uniform is also an erotic symbol in Japan, comparable to the image of a woman in a mini-skirt in the United States. Burusera shops cater to men with lolicon complexes by selling unwashed panties, men can make dates with teenagers through terekura ("telephone clubs"),[13] and school girls moonlight as prostitutes in Tokyo.[14] Together, these create the "strange collusion which exists in Japanese culture between the hentai (pervert) and the kawaii (cute)."[15] Conversely, the great cultural respect associated with old age would make it incompatible with portraying ecchi behavior in manga, except in a greatly exaggerated farce context

In other words... Different culture, different norms. It's accepted over there because of the culture.

Lastly, I'd like to point you to a section from later in the same article that was previously posted:

Cultural critic Hiroki Azuma said that very few readers of lolicon manga commit crimes. In the otaku culture, lolicon is the "most convenient [form of rebellion]" against society.[8]

Milton Diamond and Ayako Uchiyama observe a strong correlation between the dramatic rise of pornographic material in Japan from the 1970s onwards and a dramatic decrease in reported sexual violence, including crimes by juveniles and assaults on children under 13. They cite similar findings in Denmark and West Germany. In their summary, they state that the concern that countries with widespread availability of sexually explicit material would suffer increased rates of sexual crimes was not validated; and that the reduction of sexual crimes in Japan during that period may have been influenced by a variety of factors they had described in their study

I.E. F*** You, old man sentimental. "Statutory rape, etc. have gone DOWN since loli-hentai first started." In other words, people who do that stuff stop doing little children. (Note that lolicon manga is loli-hentai, not simply lolicon)

3 more quick points and then I'm done.
1) By now, you probably assume I'm a lolicon. Yeah, I am. But I'm not a loli-hentai. I'll even agree with you that I think that stuff is pretty nasty. But I am pissed that you keep trying to equate something like Bottle Fairys (that pink picture) or Gunslinger Girl with hardcore loli-hentai. If I think 12 year olds in wedding dresses are cute (not even physically attractive, just cute) that makes me a lolicon. If I want to have sex with her, that makes me a loli-hentai. I don't. Also, note that I'm sexually attracted to adults, and have NO sexual attraction to minors. As stated previously, I simply prefer small breasts.

2) Also stop using the fem. lolicon (as in lolicon-bait) to assume it means we're all fapping to Elfen Leid's Nana. She's a lolicon-type. She's got big eyes, small tits, a childish personality. She wears little to no clothing. It's like saying someone is jailbait, or a whore. It doesn't always mean they're doing anything sexually. It's a typification.

3) If you don't want your kids to screw around, tell them not to. That's what parents are for. If you think kids are going to start f**king because they watch a loli-hentai (which, guess what, is just as illegal to show to minors as other hentai) then guess what, you're probably a bit late. And if you think they'll do it from watching Gunslinger Girl, then you probably think Joe Camel makes kids smoke. Take some personal responsibility for your kids, people.

And a bonus:
4) Methinks the old man doth protest a tad too much.


For the past 2 days I have been reading all this Sh!t. About lolicons being child molesters, and its getting old, but here is an example of a man that is not afraid of what others may say, or think about him. he is a man of words he is not afraid to express himself. and yet it has meanings. all of the words and sentences that are here has meanings.
1.He has done his research
2.He has stated his side
3.He knows what he is talking about
4.He knows what he wants.
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08
Well, a good quantity of anime chars have a moe type complexity to them, so part of me at least is leaning that direction.
*Shifts eyes suspiciously*
If u like anime girls, i suppose there is a good chance u have such inclinations. Just possibly.
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Posted 3/28/08 , edited 4/21/08

faerydudette wrote:


Sethsun wrote:


mangoku wrote:




You are a genius, i spent 5 mins of my life reading through all that, and I am humbled by your word usage,
you sound like a seasoned lawyer, your argumentative and linguistic ability dwarf mine by leaps and bounds.

you are an Epic Win, and i dont say that to just anyone


proof that big words and long paragraphs always impress somebody :P




YEAH DUDE I KNO lik hes way of telling som1 off and its tru big words can impress som1 hehe and to the dude who wrote teh long comment with the big words u r awesome and a gr8 wrtir KEEP IT UP hehe


i was being sarcastic

i dont think quoting wikipedia makes you a "gr8 wrtir"
everyone who's posted in this thread is fail
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