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Posted 7/19/08 , edited 7/19/08

GZ_anime-manga wrote:
ok what do you not now how to do
sushi isn't raw fish hmmmm
so how was sashimi invented


Well I know why. Sushi in general was a dish designed to be prepared and eaten quickly, a very fresh meal not involving the practice of fermentation.

I don't know exactly what you mean by how. Like how is it prepared?
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Posted 7/21/08 , edited 7/22/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


GZ_anime-manga wrote:
ok what do you not now how to do
sushi isn't raw fish hmmmm
so how was sashimi invented


Well I know why. Sushi in general was a dish designed to be prepared and eaten quickly, a very fresh meal not involving the practice of fermentation.

I don't know exactly what you mean by how. Like how is it prepared?


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Posted 7/22/08 , edited 7/23/08
so wats the difference between sashimi and maki?
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Posted 7/22/08 , edited 7/23/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


GZ_anime-manga wrote:
ok what do you not now how to do
sushi isn't raw fish hmmmm
so how was sashimi invented


Well I know why. Sushi in general was a dish designed to be prepared and eaten quickly, a very fresh meal not involving the practice of fermentation.

I don't know exactly what you mean by how. Like how is it prepared?
GZ_anime-manga is asking how people came by the way of making sashimi.
You know,why was it created in the first place.


Ice answered the question with:

Sushi in general was a dish designed to be prepared and eaten quickly

However,Ice,GZ also wants to know for what pupose it was made in such a manner in the first place.
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Posted 7/23/08 , edited 7/23/08

carlrules097 wrote:

so wats the difference between sashimi and maki?

Maki just means "Roll" which in this case would signify the finished sushi roll.
Sashimi is used to designate raw fish sushi.

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Posted 7/26/08 , edited 7/26/08
Many westerners also feel that Samurai means "Soldier" but it more properly translates to Vassal or Retainer. A close servant to a Daimyo (lord of a fife; Kind of like a "King" in the Frankish dark ages. The Shogun, military dictator of all Japan would be akin to a "High King" or "King of Kings" in the Frankish dark ages before "King" meant ruling all of a country due to crowns being integrated and "Common Kings" being given titles of peerage; Duke(one of relation to the monarchy), Earl, Count, Viscount, Barron, etc.) The samurai were a small percentage of the army which was made up of more than 90% foot soldiers or "Ashigaru" of which the Samurai commanded and fought alongside.

The samurai mainly prosed as cavalry. A samurai was not originally first noted for the sword at all, but rather the bow ("Yumi") because they first shot the bow until they were in close distance in which they used the Spear if they had one. When the spear was broken or became cumbersome, they threw it aside or at the enemy and drew their sword. When the sword was broken (common place in war) or disarmed, they fought using a technique called Jujutsu which employs grappling, throws, joint locks, and lethal strikes to vital points.

Later, in the Edo-jidai (The gradual decline of the Samurai) when the Shogunate had retained peace through the land and samurai were reduced to politicians and grew weak. Ronin (lit "Men of the Waves") or masterless swordsman who had lost the title of Samurai wandered the land causing all sorts of disorder. These ronin were more akin to the samurai of days of yore, rowdy and tough often making umbrellas or acting as bodyguards or joining gangs of Yakuza for money.

This was the age where Bushido was born and Samurai were then known by the Daisho (Twin swords; Katana and Wakizashi) and armor was no longer employed since there were no open wars.

This is the age, the spirit of the samurai truly fell.
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Posted 8/3/08 , edited 8/3/08
To tell you the truth, I didn't know any of that.

I personally find the Edo-Jidai to be one of the most interesting parts of Japanese history (or what little Japanese history I know) and is actually the time line in which most of the samurai based anime takes place. It was surely the death of the samurai but a story is always most interesting when it reaches its climax.
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Posted 8/4/08 , edited 8/4/08

Macedonian wrote:

To tell you the truth, I didn't know any of that.

I personally find the Edo-Jidai to be one of the most interesting parts of Japanese history (or what little Japanese history I know) and is actually the time line in which most of the samurai based anime takes place. It was surely the death of the samurai but a story is always most interesting when it reaches its climax.


That is true. However the Sengoku jidai is truly the age of the samurai.

The edo period was just different. The samurai went from warriors in battle to street brawlers who engage in duels.

I find both eras extremely interesting.
The Sengoku era features the brunt of combat on the battlefield and is altogether different.
The Edo era features the brunt of combat on the streets with wandering ronin and the like seeking to improve their technique.

Though the Genpei wars in the late Heian era feature the true spirit of the samurai.

I like these eras because they are all very different and important.
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Posted 8/6/08 , edited 8/7/08

jirvildavid wrote:

that's true, but, isn't he a cruel lord cuz I've heard that he kills anyone who gets in his way, even women and children. I even heard that he also kills the enemy's cattles


I think if it is true, it'd be describing how his ambition got the best of him. Some one who acted as reckless and carefree would have been assassinated eventually by anyone if not at honnoji
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Posted 8/6/08 , edited 8/7/08

kiluanne93 wrote:


jirvildavid wrote:

that's true, but, isn't he a cruel lord cuz I've heard that he kills anyone who gets in his way, even women and children. I even heard that he also kills the enemy's cattles


I think if it is true, it'd be describing how his ambition got the best of him. Some one who acted as reckless and carefree would have been assassinated eventually by anyone if not at honnoji


Great point.

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Posted 8/26/08 , edited 8/26/08

GZ_anime-manga wrote:


Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


GZ_anime-manga wrote:

hey how was sushi invented


Sushi as in literally [vineger flavored rice] has been around for centuries.
However prepared sushi was invented during the early 1800's at the end of the Edo jidai.

Most people confuse Sushi[Vinegar flavored rice] with Sashimi[raw fish prepared with Sushi] and do not know that there are many different variations. My favorite kind of sushi that I made is a julienned carrot or red pepper in the center of a hosomaki or thin sushi roll. They taste great since I don't dig raw fish...
Furthermore the only fish I like are pan fried and spiced catfish or crappie which do not have a nasty "fishy" taste. Grilled shark stake is pretty good too.

If I thought I could get away with it, I would start a cooking thread. You all know I have a passion for martial arts, history, and fine literature, but I equally have a passion about music and food. I am an accomplished chef in traditional Cajun, Japanese, Italian, and French cuisine. Though I often make my own designed gourmet recipes.



ok what do you not now how to do
sushi isn't raw fish hmmmm
so how was sashimi invented


The origin of sushi is not Japan. It is said that sushi was introduced into Japan in the 7th century from China. What was to become sushi was first mentioned in China in the second century A.D. Originally, sushi arose out of a way of preserving food. Fish was placed in rice and allowed to ferment, which allowed an individual to keep the fish edible for some time. The rice was thrown away and the fish was eaten when needed or wanted.

The method spread throughout China and by the seventh century, had made its way to Japan. The Japanese, however, took the concept further and began to eat the rice with the fish. Originally, the dish was prepared in much the same manner. In the early 17th century, however, Matsumoto Yoshiichi of Edo is credited of using seasoned rice(rice with rice wine vinegar) while making his ‘sushi’ for sale. This allowed the dish to be eaten immediately, instead of waiting the months it might normally take to prepare the ‘sushi.’

In the early 19th century, a man by the name of Hanaya Yohei thought of a way to change the production and presentation of his sushi. He stopped wrapping the fish in rice, he placed a piece of fresh fish on top of an oblong shaped piece of seasoned rice. Today, we call this style ‘nigiri sushi’ (finger sushi) or “edomae sushi” and is now the common way of eating Japanese sushi. At that time, sushi was served from sushi stalls on the street and was meant to be a snack or quick bite to eat on the go. Served from his stall, this was not only the first of the real ‘fast food’ sushi, but quickly became popular. From his home in Edo, this style of serving sushi quickly spread throughout Japan. This was aided by the Great Kanto earthquake in 1923, when many people lost their homes and businesses and moved from Tokyo.

After World War Two, the sushi stalls were shut down and moved indoors, to improve sanitary conditions. More formal seating was later provided.

Now as for sashimi: The consumption of fish raw has been traditional since ancient times. Namasu, or the eating of thinly sliced raw fish dipped in a sauce with a vinegar base, is a typical example. Sashimi however dosen't show up until about the 17 century. Their is an old Japanese proverb that goes "Eat it raw first of all, then grill it, and boil it as the last resort."

Also I might want to point out sashimi is never served on rice it is always served with a garnish typically daikon for presentaion and sashimi is also not always raw. Octopus and shrimp sashimi are almost but not always cooked.


I wrote a paper on the history of the Japanese culinary arts in college.
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Posted 9/9/08 , edited 9/9/08

The Forty Seven Ronin


The events took place in 1701, in the middle of the Tokugawa era. Shogun Tokugawa Tsunayoshi ordered some of his lords to attend an envoy from the Imperial family. For this purpose, the master of protocol Kira Kozukenosuke Yoshinaka (1641-1702) was designated to teach the lords the complex rules of Imperial etiquette.

One of the lords, Asano Takumi no kami Naganori (1667-1701), head of a branch of the powerful Asano family, did not get along with Kira( there are reports that Kira was a rude person in general, there are also some reports that he was very corrupt and required bribes for his good graces). As the tension rose between the two men, Kira made every effort to embarrass Asano in public. The conflict came to a climax when Kira insulted Asano in the shogun's palace( it is said or beleived he called him country bumkin with no manners). Asano drew his dagger (acts of such violence were forbidden in the palace) and struck Kira, though only injuring him with a scar on the face. As striking someone while angry was also against the law, Asano committed a double crime. He knew this and readily admitted his misdemeanor, only regretting not to have killed Kira.

Lord Asano was made to commit seppuku, although the decision was unpopular and seen as unjust by many. His retainers had now become ronin and swore to avenge their master's death by killing Kira. He committed seppuku on April 21, 1701. Oishi Kuranosuke moved the Asano family away before the order to disban could reach them. He plotted to take revenge form Lord Asano by killing Kira. Originally there were over three hundred Samurai, but as time lagged on only around fifty remained. On 14 December 1702, 47 of Lord Asano's Samurai(including Oishi Kuranosuke) went to Kira's mansion in Ryogoku and attacked it. Many of Kira's men died in the surprise attack, but Kira was given the chance to commit seppuku with the same dagger that had left the scar on his face. It is said he did not meet his fate with grace and trembled on the ground giving no response. He was pinned to the ground where his head was removed with the dagger instread.

As daylight was aproaching, they took Kira's head to their lord's grave in Sengaku-ji. On arriving at the temple, the remaining forty-six ronin(One was sent back to the camp to inform others if the mission was successful or not) washed and cleaned Kira's head in a well, and laid it, and the dagger, before Asano's tomb. They offered prayers at the temple, and gave the abbot of the temple all the money they had left, asking him to bury them decently, and offer prayers for them. They then turned themselves in.

During this time, two friends of Kira came to collect his head for burial; the temple still has the original receipt for the head, which the friends and the priests who dealt with them all signed.

The shogunate officials were in a quandary. The samurai had followed the precepts of bushido by avenging the death of their lord; but they had also defied shogunate authority by exacting revenge, which had been prohibited. In addition, the Shogun received a number of petitions from the admiring populace on behalf of the ronin. As expected, the ronin were sentenced to death; but the Shogun had finally resolved the quandary by ordering them to honorably commit seppuku, instead of having them executed as criminals. It is known that each of the assailants ended his life in the ritualistic fashion.

Each of the forty-six ronin did kill himself on February 4, 1703. This has caused a considerable amount of confusion ever since, with some people referring to the "forty-six ronin"; this refers to the group put to death by the Shogun, the actual attack party numbered forty-seven. The forty-seventh ronin eventually returned from his mission and was pardoned by the Shogun (some say on account of his youth). He lived until the age of seventy-eight, and was then buried with his comrades. The assailants who died by seppuku were subsequently interred on the grounds of Sengaku-ji, in front of the tomb of their lord.

In the aftermath the Tokugawa shogunate condemned the grandson of Yoshinaka to death for being incapable of protecting his family like a samurai; the Kira were also dispossessed and lost the rank of koke. After the death of Uesugi Tsunakatsu, the revenues of the Uesugi were reduced from 300,000 koku to 150,000 koku. On the other hand, the brother of Asano, Naganori was reestablished, received a revenue of 5,000 koku and the rank of hatamoto.

A small note of interest is the 47 ronin, lord Asano and Kira are all buried in Sengaku-ji Temple.
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Posted 9/10/08 , edited 9/10/08

silverfizz wrote:


The Forty Seven Ronin


The events took place in 1701, in the middle of the Tokugawa era. Shogun Tokugawa Tsunayoshi ordered some of his lords to attend an envoy from the Imperial family. For this purpose, the master of protocol Kira Kozukenosuke Yoshinaka (1641-1702) was designated to teach the lords the complex rules of Imperial etiquette.

One of the lords, Asano Takumi no kami Naganori (1667-1701), head of a branch of the powerful Asano family, did not get along with Kira( there are reports that Kira was a rude person in general, there are also some reports that he was very corrupt and required bribes for his good graces). As the tension rose between the two men, Kira made every effort to embarrass Asano in public. The conflict came to a climax when Kira insulted Asano in the shogun's palace( it is said or beleived he called him country bumkin with no manners). Asano drew his dagger (acts of such violence were forbidden in the palace) and struck Kira, though only injuring him with a scar on the face. As striking someone while angry was also against the law, Asano committed a double crime. He knew this and readily admitted his misdemeanor, only regretting not to have killed Kira.

Lord Asano was made to commit seppuku, although the decision was unpopular and seen as unjust by many. His retainers had now become ronin and swore to avenge their master's death by killing Kira. He committed seppuku on April 21, 1701. Oishi Kuranosuke moved the Asano family away before the order to disban could reach them. He plotted to take revenge form Lord Asano by killing Kira. Originally there were over three hundred Samurai, but as time lagged on only around fifty remained. On 14 December 1702, 47 of Lord Asano's Samurai(including Oishi Kuranosuke) went to Kira's mansion in Ryogoku and attacked it. Many of Kira's men died in the surprise attack, but Kira was given the chance to commit seppuku with the same dagger that had left the scar on his face. It is said he did not meet his fate with grace and trembled on the ground giving no response. He was pinned to the ground where his head was removed with the dagger instread.

As daylight was aproaching, they took Kira's head to their lord's grave in Sengaku-ji. On arriving at the temple, the remaining forty-six ronin(One was sent back to the camp to inform others if the mission was successful or not) washed and cleaned Kira's head in a well, and laid it, and the dagger, before Asano's tomb. They offered prayers at the temple, and gave the abbot of the temple all the money they had left, asking him to bury them decently, and offer prayers for them. They then turned themselves in.

During this time, two friends of Kira came to collect his head for burial; the temple still has the original receipt for the head, which the friends and the priests who dealt with them all signed.

The shogunate officials were in a quandary. The samurai had followed the precepts of bushido by avenging the death of their lord; but they had also defied shogunate authority by exacting revenge, which had been prohibited. In addition, the Shogun received a number of petitions from the admiring populace on behalf of the ronin. As expected, the ronin were sentenced to death; but the Shogun had finally resolved the quandary by ordering them to honorably commit seppuku, instead of having them executed as criminals. It is known that each of the assailants ended his life in the ritualistic fashion.

Each of the forty-six ronin did kill himself on February 4, 1703. This has caused a considerable amount of confusion ever since, with some people referring to the "forty-six ronin"; this refers to the group put to death by the Shogun, the actual attack party numbered forty-seven. The forty-seventh ronin eventually returned from his mission and was pardoned by the Shogun (some say on account of his youth). He lived until the age of seventy-eight, and was then buried with his comrades. The assailants who died by seppuku were subsequently interred on the grounds of Sengaku-ji, in front of the tomb of their lord.

In the aftermath the Tokugawa shogunate condemned the grandson of Yoshinaka to death for being incapable of protecting his family like a samurai; the Kira were also dispossessed and lost the rank of koke. After the death of Uesugi Tsunakatsu, the revenues of the Uesugi were reduced from 300,000 koku to 150,000 koku. On the other hand, the brother of Asano, Naganori was reestablished, received a revenue of 5,000 koku and the rank of hatamoto.

A small note of interest is the 47 ronin, lord Asano and Kira are all buried in Sengaku-ji Temple.




i really enjoyed reading this "paper", if it has 147 pages can be already considered a Ph.D thesis really! also there's a circumstances (the shougun put the 47 ronin to choose death or........death. it's a bit ironic and cruel but so true - "Shogun had finally resolved the quandary by ordering them to honorably commit seppuku, instead of having them executed as criminals".) that reminds me of an Chinese story told by a Russin author - somebody commited a crime and the Chinese emeperor had to give him a punishment and as a final decision the "criminal" had to choose between eating a rat alive "seasoned" with sugar or to be behaded! maybe the situation is a bit diffrent but in a way very similat to this story! but anyway thanks for taking your time and writting this
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Posted 9/10/08 , edited 9/10/08


Actually this paper was only 84 pages, the paper I wrote on the history of Japanese cuisine was 147 pages. This paper was on pivotal events of Samurai and their Code of Honour. I might also point out that many actually criticize the 47 ronin due to the fact that they took so long, to avenge their lord. They took a year and many at the time felt what would have happened if Kira had died due to an illness, then they would have been left unfulfilled. But that is another topic.


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Posted 9/11/08 , edited 9/11/08

silverfizz wrote:



Actually this paper was only 84 pages, the paper I wrote on the history of Japanese cuisine was 147 pages. This paper was on pivotal events of Samurai and their Code of Honour. I might also point out that many actually criticize the 47 ronin due to the fact that they took so long, to avenge their lord. They took a year and many at the time felt what would have happened if Kira had died due to an illness, then they would have been left unfulfilled. But that is another topic.




by the way a good topic ...if u have something in mind .....just shoot!
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