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Post Reply Good Things That war Brought
Posted 8/23/08

Telomonian wrote:


Lieon22 wrote:

Ahhh....i wonder if they had to be strategists to be able to attain the rank of samurai.... this conversation has left me longing for candy....


I don't know about that, but I do know that in WW1 & WW2 the Japanese nobles carried swords and many (which I don't know if this is true) called them samurai. I'll look it up real quick.


I thought the era of the samurai was over when the industrial revolution began....
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Posted 8/23/08 , edited 8/23/08

Lieon22 wrote:


Telomonian wrote:


Lieon22 wrote:

Ahhh....i wonder if they had to be strategists to be able to attain the rank of samurai.... this conversation has left me longing for candy....


I don't know about that, but I do know that in WW1 & WW2 the Japanese nobles carried swords and many (which I don't know if this is true) called them samurai. I'll look it up real quick.


I thought the era of the samurai was over when the industrial revolution began....


I'm not saying that they were established as Samurai nor have I researched this yet to state it as fact, allow me some time to do research.
Posted 8/23/08

Telomonian wrote:


Lieon22 wrote:


Telomonian wrote:


Lieon22 wrote:

Ahhh....i wonder if they had to be strategists to be able to attain the rank of samurai.... this conversation has left me longing for candy....


I don't know about that, but I do know that in WW1 & WW2 the Japanese nobles carried swords and many (which I don't know if this is true) called them samurai. I'll look it up real quick.


I thought the era of the samurai was over when the industrial revolution began....


I'm not saying that they were established as Samurai nor have I researched this yet to state it as fact, allow me some time to do research.


Ohhhh....i thought you already knew....i was asking a question....
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Posted 8/23/08

Lieon22 wrote:

Ahhh....i wonder if they had to be strategists to be able to attain the rank of samurai.... this conversation has left me longing for candy....

No. To be a samurai one must be born or adopted into a bushi family. They must serve a lord and be trained formally from youth.
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Posted 8/23/08

Lieon22 wrote:


Telomonian wrote:


Lieon22 wrote:


Telomonian wrote:


Lieon22 wrote:

Ahhh....i wonder if they had to be strategists to be able to attain the rank of samurai.... this conversation has left me longing for candy....


I don't know about that, but I do know that in WW1 & WW2 the Japanese nobles carried swords and many (which I don't know if this is true) called them samurai. I'll look it up real quick.


I thought the era of the samurai was over when the industrial revolution began....


I'm not saying that they were established as Samurai nor have I researched this yet to state it as fact, allow me some time to do research.


Ohhhh....i thought you already knew....i was asking a question....


Ok...here it is.
During WW2 many Japanese officers carried katanas, but only in an honorary respect. They were not established as samurai nor was it likely that the blades were often or ever used.
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Posted 8/24/08
Okay I have thought about this in great length before I have posted here so here is my answer. As a Shinto-Buddisht( I add this part of my religion because it plays a huge part in my life and my world view.) the greatest thing War has ever brought about is the appreciation on Peace. Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace. Yes war can be awful and can be contorted and the spoils go to the victor but all in all peace and stability is what all men seek, "just some kick up the dust to try to accomplish it". Are wars avoidable No, not all wars are avoidable and if you believe so then you have a lot of growing to do. Even the Dahli Lama has said other mans paths have sucked in others to a path of ruin and destruction in which another must come forth to save those who he walks upon. It that an advocation on violence, certainly not but sometimes it is just unavoidable. So this may ramble on to say in short War brings about an appreciation of Peace is wars greatest contribution to society is only my humble opinion, in which anyone can disagree if you so choose.
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Posted 8/24/08

silverfizz wrote:

Okay I have thought about this in great length before I have posted here so here is my answer. As a Shinto-Buddisht( I add this part of my religion because it plays a huge part in my life and my world view.) the greatest thing War has ever brought about is the appreciation on Peace. Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace. Yes war can be awful and can be contorted and the spoils go to the victor but all in all peace and stability is what all men seek, "just some kick up the dust to try to accomplish it". Are wars avoidable No, not all wars are avoidable and if you believe so then you have a lot of growing to do. Even the Dahli Lama has said other mans paths have sucked in others to a path of ruin and destruction in which another must come forth to save those who he walks upon. It that an advocation on violence, certainly not but sometimes it is just unavoidable. So this may ramble on to say in short War brings about an appreciation of Peace is wars greatest contribution to society is only my humble opinion, in which anyone can disagree if you so choose.



Excellent.

There is only one thing I have to disagree with and that is your statment: "Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace."

My uncle Fran fought in Vietnam and the Gulf War and was a complete warmonger.
He called peace "an uninvited resting period between wars." He said more after the word "wars," however I'd rather not put it down out of respect to certain veterans.

I just wanted to let you know that not everyone that had fought in war belived things of such.
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Posted 8/24/08 , edited 8/24/08

Telomonian wrote:


silverfizz wrote:

Okay I have thought about this in great length before I have posted here so here is my answer. As a Shinto-Buddisht( I add this part of my religion because it plays a huge part in my life and my world view.) the greatest thing War has ever brought about is the appreciation on Peace. Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace. Yes war can be awful and can be contorted and the spoils go to the victor but all in all peace and stability is what all men seek, "just some kick up the dust to try to accomplish it". Are wars avoidable No, not all wars are avoidable and if you believe so then you have a lot of growing to do. Even the Dahli Lama has said other mans paths have sucked in others to a path of ruin and destruction in which another must come forth to save those who he walks upon. It that an advocation on violence, certainly not but sometimes it is just unavoidable. So this may ramble on to say in short War brings about an appreciation of Peace is wars greatest contribution to society is only my humble opinion, in which anyone can disagree if you so choose.



Excellent.

There is only one thing I have to disagree with and that is your statment: "Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace."

My uncle Fran fought in Vietnam and the Gulf War and was a complete warmonger.
He called peace "an uninvited resting period between wars." He said more after the word "wars," however I'd rather not put it down out of respect to certain veterans.

I just wanted to let you know that not everyone that had fought in war belived things of such.


I confirm this.
War has different effects on different people and nearly none are shared.

For example, a buddy of mine is a 'Nam vet and he never talks about it. One time he brought it up; it was the first time I had ever seen him cry. There was great pain in his eyes longing to be released.

My grandfather who fought through WW2 [Southern France, Normandy, Germany] and Korea, can talk about it and has no apparent bad feelings. However he ceased going to church because he feels that God could not accept that he had killed invading soldiers in a church from the bell tower even though he saved the clergy and the church from a gruesome death in fire.

See how the three examples differ?

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Posted 8/25/08
let's just say that sometime the war is an easier way of solving different social and political dilemmas...and also not the easiest but the crulest way.... the strange fact is that most o f the people forget what diplomacy is and also what a great diplomat can do and also if we're talking about religion let's not forget that buddhists have that beautiful methos of avoidind conflicts called the "the golden path" or the middle path also known in the Orthodox religion. that's the great path that unites the "black" and "white" or that path which can bring harmony, the harmony that was so beautiffully defined as" that one thing that is the unity of the multiple and also the thing that brings into acord the disacord". humanity is used rather to use force than subtility of mind and maybe many wars would have been avoided like this. i think that the greatest enemies of the human beings are the so called "passions" (envy. pride.greed/avidity). it's easier to destroy than to preserve or cherish.
Posted 8/30/08
I think that the passions actually help at times. But the leaders of the world should be able to control them, and not give in to them on a global scale.
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Posted 9/9/08

Lieon22 wrote:

I think that the passions actually help at times. But the leaders of the world should be able to control them, and not give in to them on a global scale.


yup, passion (with a general meaning) can be of great help if you know how to use it and in what purpose and again passions are dubled blade daggers (also i used the term "passion" with a diffrent meaning, it's the theological meaning - passions are those facts that keep you away from having a clear image of the world u live in or i can use the word "maya" for the same idea. maya is a term that deffines "illusion" in Indian "theology" .also in Orthodox mentality and religion the term of "passion" has the meaning of flaws that characterize the human nature and eventually sins or "facts" that generate sins - envy, greed, lust etc ) - sorry for not making this clear from the start!

and yes u are right "the leaders of the world should be able to control them, and not give in to them on a global scale" but maybe u are an idealist just like me and really here we talk about how things should be, not the way they really are
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Posted 9/20/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


Telomonian wrote:


silverfizz wrote:

Okay I have thought about this in great length before I have posted here so here is my answer. As a Shinto-Buddisht( I add this part of my religion because it plays a huge part in my life and my world view.) the greatest thing War has ever brought about is the appreciation on Peace. Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace. Yes war can be awful and can be contorted and the spoils go to the victor but all in all peace and stability is what all men seek, "just some kick up the dust to try to accomplish it". Are wars avoidable No, not all wars are avoidable and if you believe so then you have a lot of growing to do. Even the Dahli Lama has said other mans paths have sucked in others to a path of ruin and destruction in which another must come forth to save those who he walks upon. It that an advocation on violence, certainly not but sometimes it is just unavoidable. So this may ramble on to say in short War brings about an appreciation of Peace is wars greatest contribution to society is only my humble opinion, in which anyone can disagree if you so choose.



Excellent.

There is only one thing I have to disagree with and that is your statment: "Anyone who has been in a war or gone to war all have the same reverberation on a complete respect and love for peace."

My uncle Fran fought in Vietnam and the Gulf War and was a complete warmonger.
He called peace "an uninvited resting period between wars." He said more after the word "wars," however I'd rather not put it down out of respect to certain veterans.

I just wanted to let you know that not everyone that had fought in war belived things of such.


I confirm this.
War has different effects on different people and nearly none are shared.

For example, a buddy of mine is a 'Nam vet and he never talks about it. One time he brought it up; it was the first time I had ever seen him cry. There was great pain in his eyes longing to be released.

My grandfather who fought through WW2 [Southern France, Normandy, Germany] and Korea, can talk about it and has no apparent bad feelings. However he ceased going to church because he feels that God could not accept that he had killed invading soldiers in a church from the bell tower even though he saved the clergy and the church from a gruesome death in fire.

See how the three examples differ?



The most innocent people in war are the civilians and usually the soldiers. They are fighting, yes, but they are fighting to protect their country, their people, their families, and ultimately themselves. You of course have your war mongers but really, how common are they? Soldiers are heroes, working for and against villains. Their only sin is ignorance but even then, they are not at fault.
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Posted 9/20/08


The most innocent people in war are the civilians and usually the soldiers. They are fighting, yes, but they are fighting to protect their country, their people, their families, and ultimately themselves. You of course have your war mongers but really, how common are they? Soldiers are heroes, working for and against villains. Their only sin is ignorance but even then, they are not at fault.

Let me break it down your post here.

"The most innocent people in war are the civilians and usually the soldiers" - Mace

#1 No one is innocent.

"They are fighting, yes, but they are fighting to protect their country, their people, their families, and ultimately themselves." - Mace

#2 two out three parts of this statement is not always true.

"Soldiers are heroes" - Mace

#3 The only heroes I know of are made in New York delicatessens.

"Soldiers are heroes, working for and against villains" - Mace

#4 Seriously?

"Their only sin is ignorance but even then, they are not at fault." - Mace

#5 Choices, choices, choices.
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Posted 9/20/08 , edited 9/20/08


Telomonian wrote:



The most innocent people in war are the civilians and usually the soldiers. They are fighting, yes, but they are fighting to protect their country, their people, their families, and ultimately themselves. You of course have your war mongers but really, how common are they? Soldiers are heroes, working for and against villains. Their only sin is ignorance but even then, they are not at fault.


Let me break it down your post here.

"The most innocent people in war are the civilians and usually the soldiers" - Mace

#1 No one is innocent.

"They are fighting, yes, but they are fighting to protect their country, their people, their families, and ultimately themselves." - Mace

#2 two out three parts of this statement is not always true.

"Soldiers are heroes" - Mace

#3 The only heroes I know of are made in New York delicatessens.

"Soldiers are heroes, working for and against villains" - Mace

#4 Seriously?

"Their only sin is ignorance but even then, they are not at fault." - Mace

#5 Choices, choices, choices.



#1 Yes, no one is completely innocent, that’s why I said the most innocent. I believe one person can be more innocent than another person and I believe, in terms of war, civilians and usually soldiers are the most innocent.

#2 Yeah, I get where you're coming from, but as a general consensus, it usually is. Everything has its exceptions, I do not believe the exception is large enough here to make that statement false.

#3 You honestly don’t believe soldiers are heroes? Yeah, I know the way I'm looking at this seems really black and white but I do regard soldiers as heroes. I am of course talking about the modern day soldier, no Nazi WW2 ones. The soldiers themselves don't move without command which brings me to number 4. Any bad a soldier does is usually on command, or to protect themselves or someone else. They do have their choices yes, but self preservation is a very strong thing. Now that I think about it...this is a really good topic to right an essay on. I'm going to need some more time to answer this properly.

#5 A solider usually doesn't really know the full scope of what is going on. They just go along with what they are told and hope they're doing good. They may not be doing good, or they might just be doing the better thing. You have to understand by now that I do believe that there is some conspiracy, even if I may sound paranoid. I don't think the rulers of humanity are quite as warm as most think they are.
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Posted 9/20/08


#2 There's a consensus for this.

#3 Soldiers do their job. It doesn't make 'em heroes.

#4 I'm sure the marines that raped those women were under orders.

#5 I didn't think people thought they were warm.
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