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Post Reply What kind of warrior would you want to be?
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Posted 7/26/08 , edited 7/26/08


Actually there's just about two definitions and yes as a definition they are pretty certain. Someone engaged in military activity and/or someone who utilizes martial skill in combative applications.
I think you meant to say that the definition is not devoid of the capability of interpretation. That I would agree to as long as the interpretation resides within the constraints of the criteria that the word defines.


and there may not be evidence that a ninja partook in combat but we do not know that they did partake in combat.

Huh?
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Posted 7/26/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:



Actually there's just about two definitions and yes as a definition they are pretty certain. Someone engaged in military activity and/or someone who utilizes martial skill in combative applications.
I think you meant to say that the definition is not devoid of the capability of interpretation. That I would agree to as long as the interpretation resides within the constraints of the criteria that the word defines.


and there may not be evidence that a ninja partook in combat but we do not know that they did partake in combat.

Huh?


sorry what im saying is that we dont know if they did or didnt partake in battle or not. hope that makes a bit more sense.
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Posted 7/26/08

brotherhoodofthewolf wrote:

sorry what im saying is that we dont know if they did or didnt partake in battle or not. hope that makes a bit more sense.


That makes sense.

However that is not exactly correct. We can be sure that there was no combatives for the ninja. A record, The Jintonpo provides significant and verifiable proof that ninja were not assassins and operated only as spies.

Shikaku, however, were assassins. There are fictional accounts of them wearing a similar bunraku puppeteer outfit that people incorrectly call a ninja outfit. So it could have been confused.
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Posted 7/26/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


brotherhoodofthewolf wrote:

sorry what im saying is that we dont know if they did or didnt partake in battle or not. hope that makes a bit more sense.


That makes sense.

However that is not exactly correct. We can be sure that there was no combatives for the ninja. A record, The Jintonpo provides significant and verifiable proof that ninja were not assassins and operated only as spies.

Shikaku, however, were assassins. There are fictional accounts of them wearing a similar bunraku puppeteer outfit that people incorrectly call a ninja outfit. So it could have been confused.


ah i didnt know that im not to good with japanese history. but that clears it up for me so thank you and sorry to have dragged that out.
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Posted 7/26/08 , edited 7/26/08


If you have a reason to disagree, by all means debate that issue [as long as it's a friendly debate.]
However I have been in the martial arts for over 18 years and I have 6 years of college experience on the subjects of Psychology, Sociology, World History, and East Asian Culture [History and Anthropology with an emphasis on Japan] and I am willing to back up anything I say with that, just so you know I'm not some idiot bringing unfounded information into a conversation.
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Posted 7/26/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:



If you have a reason to disagree, by all means debate that issue [as long as it's a friendly debate.]
However I have been in the martial arts for over 18 years and I have 6 years of college experience on the subjects of Psychology, Sociology, World History, and East Asian Culture [History and Anthropology with an emphasis on Japan] and I am willing to back up anything I say with that, just so you know I'm not some idiot bringing unfounded information into a conversation.


wow and yeah ok and i sort of figured out that your not an idiot in the information that you brought into the conversation.
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Posted 7/29/08
a samurai. I love the glory
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Posted 8/2/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


itachisneko wrote:

I would like to be a Samurai ninja because I would want the talent of using a Katana and the speed of a ninja. It would be cool to be a gunman too but I kinda like katanas more.


Hihi, welcome to the group. This topic is more of historic measure than fantasy. In actuality ninja are not warriors or assassins but spies.
I think Mace meant for us to put warrior classes.


Macedonian wrote:
If you had the chance to be any warrior from any point in time, from any war- who would you want to be?

For example, one could say that they would have liked to be a Spartan, or a Templar from the Crusades. I can't personally decide who I would like to be but It would be interesting to know what the rest of you would say .


See?



actually if you check out the name hanzo hattori then it will pull up something on a ninja who was on of the greatest generals and commanders in japan but he was real and he actually commanded an army of 200 ninjas (more or less). He was a respected man to Tokugawa the general and later warlord in japan. so go ahead and TRY and PROVE me WRONG!!! it is all true and he died of old age, he was married and had a son that didn't live up to the expectations of the other ninjas and didn't prove himself to ever have the family name for all males in the family line.

and stop putting people down or some ones going to have to beat you at your own game wether it is to be me or someone else someone will beat you brow beat you down in your own game buddy. Now don't get me wrong i don't have a grudge or anthing i just hate it when people try to be a know-it-all or just like to be show off. so stop putting people down and yes ninjas were considered warriors in their own time. so
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Posted 8/2/08 , edited 8/2/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:



If you have a reason to disagree, by all means debate that issue [as long as it's a friendly debate.]
However I have been in the martial arts for over 18 years and I have 6 years of college experience on the subjects of Psychology, Sociology, World History, and East Asian Culture [History and Anthropology with an emphasis on Japan] and I am willing to back up anything I say with that, just so you know I'm not some idiot bringing unfounded information into a conversation.


yes i do because of everything your saying your just putting people down and you should just give information without trying to put someone down OK do you get it and yet you are not always exactly right all the time
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Posted 8/3/08

shihhoucaim wrote:


Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


itachisneko wrote:

I would like to be a Samurai ninja because I would want the talent of using a Katana and the speed of a ninja. It would be cool to be a gunman too but I kinda like katanas more.


Hihi, welcome to the group. This topic is more of historic measure than fantasy. In actuality ninja are not warriors or assassins but spies.
I think Mace meant for us to put warrior classes.


Macedonian wrote:
If you had the chance to be any warrior from any point in time, from any war- who would you want to be?

For example, one could say that they would have liked to be a Spartan, or a Templar from the Crusades. I can't personally decide who I would like to be but It would be interesting to know what the rest of you would say .


See?



actually if you check out the name hanzo hattori then it will pull up something on a ninja who was on of the greatest generals and commanders in japan but he was real and he actually commanded an army of 200 ninjas (more or less). He was a respected man to Tokugawa the general and later warlord in japan. so go ahead and TRY and PROVE me WRONG!!! it is all true and he died of old age, he was married and had a son that didn't live up to the expectations of the other ninjas and didn't prove himself to ever have the family name for all males in the family line.

and stop putting people down or some ones going to have to beat you at your own game wether it is to be me or someone else someone will beat you brow beat you down in your own game buddy. Now don't get me wrong i don't have a grudge or anthing i just hate it when people try to be a know-it-all or just like to be show off. so stop putting people down and yes ninjas were considered warriors in their own time. so


I'll take this one

my 20 seconds of research have led me to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattori_Hanzo

he was a samurai, in fiction he was depicted as a ninja, but in history- he was indeed a samurai.

My friend and valued forum poster, the point of this group is history. More precisely, correct history. If you have a question or if you are uninformed,it is out job to correct/answer you. We want people to learn.

From what I can tell, he wasn't really being a showoff nor was he putting anyone down. He was simply correcting and teaching. Personally sometimes I find him a little gruff, and at those times I do call him on it but I don't believe this is one of those times. Many people here blurt out facts that they, for lack of a better term, half-assed. Taking bits and pieces and posting so they look well informed but in reality- they have the wrong idea. I'd prefer that the next time they are in a like situation, that they'd know a little more about what they're talking about.


And for further clarification

ninja

noun
1. a member of the ninja who were trained in martial arts and hired for espionage or sabotage or assassinations; a person skilled in ninjutsu
2. a class of 14th century Japanese who were trained in martial arts and were hired for espionage and assassinations

Warrior ( by the definition i meant)

Noun
1. a person engaged or experienced in warfare; soldier. (meaning that they participated in wars, on battlefields for their land and respective countries. Not behind the scenes or in secret for personal monetary profit.)

Continue to post, and you'll continue to learn. That is the point of the group.
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Posted 8/3/08 , edited 8/3/08

shihhoucaim wrote:

actually if you check out the name hanzo hattori then it will pull up something on a ninja who was on of the greatest generals and commanders in japan but he was real and he actually commanded an army of 200 ninjas (more or less). He was a respected man to Tokugawa the general and later warlord in japan. so go ahead and TRY and PROVE me WRONG!!! it is all true and he died of old age, he was married and had a son that didn't live up to the expectations of the other ninjas and didn't prove himself to ever have the family name for all males in the family line.

and stop putting people down or some ones going to have to beat you at your own game wether it is to be me or someone else someone will beat you brow beat you down in your own game buddy. Now don't get me wrong i don't have a grudge or anthing i just hate it when people try to be a know-it-all or just like to be show off. so stop putting people down and yes ninjas were considered warriors in their own time. so


Really? Hattori Masashige was a samurai (not a ninja) under the command of Ieyasu Tokugawa who has domain in the Iga province, a province known to contain several shinobi-no-mono and the schools they learn their arts at. The famous story told that when Tokugawa was trying to escape capture by the hands of the Akechi clan and Masashige suggested they go through Iga. There are two variations.

1: The first holds that they gathered a small force of samurai [or militia in some stories] to escort them to safety.

2: The second holds that a group of shinobi-no-mono who knew the country well had escorted them on a shortcut to safety.

He was not a ninja and no verifiable factual documentation states as thus.
The myth has grown out of proportion.

Second off, you need not be so sensitive. You are obviously getting a bit too riled up. I suggest you go back and read the rules before continuing this.
And yes I can prove you wrong.

I don't recall putting anyone down. If you interpret my words as such, that is your fault. Don't presume to measure the depth of my intentions.

And no, Ninja were spies. Unless you provide some proof, you're not going to be taken seriously.

Here's a simple source supporting my position:
http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Hattori_Hanzo

As Mace said, I can be gruff at times. Hell I can seem to be a downright ass. However one cannot so easily presume to extract emotional content from a person's typed words. If you were in front of me and heard me speaking, I guarantee you would change your mind.

I have no reason to insult people. On the internet no less. Besides, if I was putting people down so ruthlessly that would be pretty stupid as I want this to be a successful and peaceful group and I would be a hypocrite for breaking my own rules. You see?
I can be blunt if not at the expense of courtesy. Though I would point out at no insult to yourself, that an person with an open and disciplined mind would be a bit more humble in their discussion.


Now I do not presume to know where you come from, your level of intelligence, or your experiences.
Also let it be known I treat people how they act and not by their age. I have known a 17 year old who is far smarter and more qualified on certain subjects than a 42 year old. Intelligence is not measured by one's age yet experience can logically be speculated due to such and thus the following cannot be construed as insulting as it stems from pure and simple logic.
However I can say that it is quite arrogant for a sixteen year old that is less likely to have any qualification on the subject [that is it is extremely doubtful you have finished graduate school and it is most likely that someone your age is in high school] as opposed to me, one who has practiced and studied the subject for longer than you have been alive plus has likely [and truly] completed or is on the verge of completing graduate school [That is I have the credits, I have taken all the classes that are on the subject yet not the other required yet unrelated courses] and therefore I base upon these logical speculations, observations, and truths that my word is one of authority on the subject and that to equal that you must provide some kind of source supporting your standpoint for your side of the discussion to have any ground in the conversation.

Do you understand?
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Posted 8/3/08







alright, alright i know when i am beat. and i went and checked up and apparently you were right, both of you are right. i just didn't go and take the time to search through all the information long enough to get the right information. I know when i am beat and i concede to both of you. you win this round but i will try and win the next one but i am sure i will lose again. sorry if i sounded rude there but like you i didn't mean any insult because i can go and blurt things out when it really isn't appropriate at all. so yeah no hard feeling, right? right? i know i probably won't win the next round either, but next time i will try to be more informed.
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Posted 8/3/08

shihhoucaim wrote:








alright, alright i know when i am beat. and i went and checked up and apparently you were right, both of you are right. i just didn't go and take the time to search through all the information long enough to get the right information. I know when i am beat and i concede to both of you. you win this round but i will try and win the next one but i am sure i will lose again. sorry if i sounded rude there but like you i didn't mean any insult because i can go and blurt things out when it really isn't appropriate at all. so yeah no hard feeling, right? right? i know i probably won't win the next round either, but next time i will try to be more informed.


well, its not a competition pal. If you have genuine knowledge to share than by all means share it, just make sure its correct. If you're not sure- ask. I'm sure someone here knows and would be very happy to answer. If you have an opinion- go ahead and post it, but be ready for a bit of friendly debate if someone disagrees.

there is no winning or losing here. We simply want everyone to learn something. So, there is no hard feelings as long as you keep posting. If you stop- we'll be forced to use a katana
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Posted 8/3/08
oh really then i might as well start learning how to catch it. not literally but you can deflect it with your hand as long as you have the right tools and training.
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Posted 8/4/08

shihhoucaim wrote:

alright, alright i know when i am beat. and i went and checked up and apparently you were right, both of you are right. i just didn't go and take the time to search through all the information long enough to get the right information. I know when i am beat and i concede to both of you. you win this round but i will try and win the next one but i am sure i will lose again. sorry if i sounded rude there but like you i didn't mean any insult because i can go and blurt things out when it really isn't appropriate at all. so yeah no hard feeling, right? right? i know i probably won't win the next round either, but next time i will try to be more informed.


Hey no hard feelings, mate. :D
I actually have very much respect for you now.
I am wrong sometimes too. I guess I come off as a know-it-all because I never really debate something I am not 100% sure on. haha

I've actually learned a lot from the others in this group.

And if I ever do offend you, let me know. If I don't intend to act like that I won't really know if I am unless someone tells me.

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