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Pledge of Allegiance
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31 / M / in my Aesthetic
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Posted 4/1/08
what's wrong with the pledge? nothing. The government has nothing better to do thats all.
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24 / F
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Posted 4/1/08

red-dragon-syndicate wrote:

i think people should stop being babies and say the pledge if they want to, or dont say it, thats it.


I agree.
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29 / M / California
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Posted 4/1/08
people should just say it if they want to and not say it if they don't want to. although when i was in elementary school some of the kids in my class didnt say it and they ended up getting in trouble. now that i look back at it, its pretty ridiculous that a teacher would do that.
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30 / M / The Milky Way
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Posted 4/1/08
umm i havent said that since 1st grade.
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Posted 4/2/08

DRO1 wrote:

Dude this country was founded by fucking Christians and thats why everything has God in it. People need to stop being gae ty and just realizhat they're living in a country of freedom founded by Christians and they should just be happy to be here and not complain about shit. No one forces anyone to do shit. Stupid fuck don't have anything better to do.


Wrong, most of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians


Dusterbayala wrote:


BLiNkPuRpLe2_ wrote:

I am an afro-american and i hate this country sooooo much, i think it we stop haveing this issue of who better that who or
who's cooler then who i think the world would be a better place.... America has alot of growing to do b4 anyone can say we r the best becuase we r clearly not,,,,, most people are selfish pricks who only care about "LOOKING GOOD" in front of people we've lost right to even say we r a great country we just need to be REAL w/ oursevles


ps what ever happend to the GOLDEN RULE
TREAT OTHERS THE WAY U WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED


then why do you segrgate yourself by distinguishing that your afro-american... why not just say you're american.

i mean... i could say, i'm native/german/french/irish american, but why bother? i'm american. everything else is just colors.

And people stopped using the golden rule long time ago. Sadly.

I personally think morals and ethics need to be taught in elementary school, then maybe people would understand a few things about life.

And what to do when faced with those situations where a wrong choice could be made.

But, i'm just a single american, i don't make any difference.

But i still like to put my two cents in!

~going from memory here - so if it's not perfect, forgive me i had to memorize it in 5th grade.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator certain unalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Governments are instituted among men, derviing their just powers, from teh consent of the governed, that if any form should become unjust, it is the RIGHT of the people to alter or abolish it.

That's a portion of the pre-amble to the declaration of independence... something that's worth fighting for..

I'm damned proud to be an American, knowing what all it's taken for my country to become what it is today. No, it's not perfect, but that's the job of the people to fix that. Not just the random congressmen but THE PEOPLE, you and me... we can do that with our vote and with our dollars.

The only way to start a change is to start with the only thing you CAN change... and that's yourself.



I dont think kids at that age, are cognitively prepared to be taught ethics.


edit: =/ I think i deleted your post by accident shelly. I'm sorry
Posted 4/2/08
imo people who dont want to do the pledge of allegiance should leave america then.

just my 2 cents.
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Posted 4/2/08
^ Why?

Is not even part of the original, it was added in 1954. Just because a person doesn't agree with American civil Religion, does not mean they should leave.
First amendment anyone?

It is also, such an ethnocentric phrase, One nation, under God. Psh!


Politics, a sense of patriotism, pride, and faith have been mixing more and more since September 11th, because the Ontological shock caused by these terrorist attacks helped to rejuvenate the notion that the United States and the essence of what it means to be an American are something that is in relation to a higher being. While this has created many noble and moral actions by the American people, the problem is that the concept of civil religion is subtle and it is experienced as something natural, so people sometimes don’t realize that they are living it and therefore they do not question it and evaluate it, this leads to beliefs, including moral assumptions that might be mistaken and instead of producing good for the people, they end up doing harm. For example, the constantly increasing rate of multiculturalism and immigration has caused resistance by some Americans because they see it as a threat to the country and to the American identity, so they don’t care if people die of dehydration trying to cross the border as long as they are kept outside of the country, and if a person is concerned and tries to help them, that individual becomes to some people an anti-American.

This happens because American Civil religion is in some levels ambiguous, just like the the concept of the “American way” can be pictured and interpreted differently by every individual and social institution, so instead of promoting a universal morality that holds “these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,” it leads to the problems of cultural relativism and creates the illusion of a “chosen nation” that is by default just, and virtuous.

Some of these illusions are the assumption that America is a chosen nation, so it has an obligation to impose its culture, political, and economics views in the world, without considering the possible flaws America values have and ignoring some of the harmful things that happen when American policies are “forced” in another country. Another illusion is that the privileges and power that America has is “given” because America is a righteous nation that deserves all this power since everything they have done to obtain it is for the good of the people. This illusion creates another illusion, the assumption that America is not responsible for anything that is affecting the world; I experienced this myself during 911 when people asked “Why did they attacked us?” and “What have we done to them? They are evil terrorists!”

Religion has been used to deify the cultural norms and customs of nearly every country, and America is not the exception. it is present in the salute to the flag, every time the president speaks, the dollar bill, the presidential oath, thanksgiving, and “God bless America.” American Civil Religion is at a very high spot right now, because there is war, the characteristics of civil religion are more evident, and since the war is against religious extremists and people of a different faith, the relation between religion and patriotism, including the belief in God becomes a dangerous one where patriotism and God may become one and the same, especially if the other side of the conflict has a different God.

Religion serves as a way of comfort and provides a sense of purpose to people, especially in stressful times, but the problem is that there is a thin line between feeling patriotic and being nationalistic, that is feeling that one’s own country is superior or morally correct and the others are wrong; if religion is included in the equation without being able to question our actions or lacking self-criticism like the way president Bush does, then patriotism and the American Civil religion experiences the same transformation that occurs when a religion is not questioned and is not allowed to evolve; it becomes a fundamentalism.

ex: people who dont want to do the pledge of allegiance should leave
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25 / F / boring, bland ohio
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Posted 4/2/08
I refuse to say it despite what my teachers say. I refuse to pledge any allegiance to an inadimate object
Posted 4/2/08
It's your right to not say it. Any teachers or other staff that tell you otherwise are lying. There's a supreme court case that upheld a person's right to not say the pledge of allegiance. The name of the case is West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.
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27 / F / Corner of No and...
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Posted 4/2/08
For fucks sake if you don't wanna say it then don't say it.

I will never understand why it's such a big issue. No one forces you to say it > you have every right to not say it, just as you should have the right to say it wherever you wish. And, if you so choose, don't say God, say something else, like "one nation under the sky" or some shit like that.
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Posted 4/2/08
^ One nation under Poseidon I should try that one just to see any people's reactions.
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25 / F / boring, bland ohio
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Posted 4/2/08

Konfue wrote:

It's your right to not say it. Any teachers or other staff that tell you otherwise are lying. There's a supreme court case that upheld a person's right to not say the pledge of allegiance. The name of the case is West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.


I am wondering, does that apply to private schools as well?
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Posted 4/2/08
^ I doubt it
yost 
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28 / M / ohio
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Posted 4/2/08
tolerence is a 2 way street.....we with relgion tolerate those with no/ alternative relgion so in turn they should tolerate us....
Posted 4/2/08
Just say it, it takes longer to complain about it then to actually say it.
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