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3rd graders charged for murder plot
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22 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 2/9/13

Kira0309 wrote:

All because they were scolded for doing something wrong? What the heck are their parents doing???? There should be a law that parents have to spank their children for misbehaving. The world wasn't like this back when parents beat and even teachers beat the children to teach them right from wrong.


Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. People were definitely worse off in the past from these insufficient parenting methods because they were never given the knowledge of how to be a good person in the first place. Children do not learn right and wrong from physical abuse, they are much more likely to develop psychological problems that will distort their developing moral intuitions and lead to criminal activity. The only way they learn right from wrong is if they educate themselves or if they allow another person to educate them, violence does nothing to solve the problem.
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24 / F / Overlord's Castle
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:

All because they were scolded for doing something wrong? What the heck are their parents doing???? There should be a law that parents have to spank their children for misbehaving. The world wasn't like this back when parents beat and even teachers beat the children to teach them right from wrong.


Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. People were definitely worse off in the past from these insufficient parenting methods because they were never given the knowledge of how to be a good person in the first place. Children do not learn right and wrong from physical abuse, they are much more likely to develop psychological problems that will distort their developing moral intuitions and lead to criminal activity. The only way they learn right from wrong is if they educate themselves or if they allow another person to educate them, violence does nothing to solve the problem.


Smacking a child on the ass is not considered violence. Beating them till their bloody is violence. Its called discipline and most children are not being disciplined by their parents which is why things like this happen. Both my brother, and myself, and my friends were all spanked when where were children and were not some messed up criminals as you suggest we should be.

Its sad that you have such a misguided view of the concept of discipline.

I am not going to argue with you on the subject but you need to seriously take a step back and look at the actual statistics of crime rate 60 years ago to the present day. Then ask yourself what has changed since then between parenting and society as a whole and what caused the drastic increase in crime. Obviously there a lot more factors involved than simply parents not disciplining their children, but it can not be ruled out that it is a possibility that it is always one of reasons.
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22 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 2/9/13

Kira0309 wrote:

Smacking a child on the ass is not considered violence. Beating them till their bloody is violence. Its called discipline and most children are not being disciplined by their parents which is why things like this happen. Both my brother, and myself, and my friends were all spanked when where were children and were not some messed up criminals as you suggest we should be.


How is smacking a child on the ass not considered violent?

You can instill discipline on a child by educating them, spanking them is not necessary. They learn how to be disciplined on their own. The only children that could commit these crimes are the uneducated ones, and these crimes would not happen if they were educated enough. If you are a good person, then you learned how to be a good person by educating yourself, spanking did not play any significant part in it.
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27 / M / Toledo
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Posted 2/9/13
Nah. Not all kids will behave just because they are educated and understand everything better. Some kids have to learn that they aren't untouchable and can face harsher punishments for their actions. Spanking all the time of course isn't needed but for situations where the child has done something more severe I think it should be used. Kids are smart and most of them act out because they know that the most that will happen to them in many cases is being told they did wrong and possibly losing material items and not even permanently sometimes.
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22 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13

Kira0309 wrote:



I am not going to argue with you on the subject but you need to seriously take a step back and look at the actual statistics of crime rate 60 years ago to the present day. Then ask yourself what has changed since then between parenting and society as a whole and what caused the drastic increase in crime. Obviously there a lot more factors involved than simply parents not disciplining their children, but it can not be ruled out that it is a possibility that it is always one of reasons.


Please cite a source that claims this. I have already looked at numerous statistics that show criminal behavior decreasing. I never said it wasn't one of the reasons, but you need to learn what proper parenting techniques consist of.
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24 / F / Overlord's Castle
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Posted 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:



I am not going to argue with you on the subject but you need to seriously take a step back and look at the actual statistics of crime rate 60 years ago to the present day. Then ask yourself what has changed since then between parenting and society as a whole and what caused the drastic increase in crime. Obviously there a lot more factors involved than simply parents not disciplining their children, but it can not be ruled out that it is a possibility that it is always one of reasons.


Please cite a source that claims this. I have already looked at numerous statistics that show criminal behavior decreasing. I never said it wasn't one of the reasons, but you need to learn what proper parenting techniques consist of.


Go to college and take a criminology class
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22 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 7/9/13

justanotherguy_2005 wrote:

Nah. Not all kids will behave just because they are educated and understand everything better. Some kids have to learn that they aren't untouchable and can face harsher punishments for their actions. Spanking all the time of course isn't needed but for situations where the child has done something more severe I think it should be used. Kids are smart and most of them act out because they know that the most that will happen to them in many cases is being told they did wrong and possibly losing material items and not even permanently sometimes.


Exactly, they need to learn this, which is what I meant by education.

Why do you think that spanking is necessary for some situations?

Once they are properly educated, they will never think about acting out again.

Kira0309 wrote:

Go to college and take a criminology class


And what would I learn there that you already know?
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Posted 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:

Smacking a child on the ass is not considered violence. Beating them till their bloody is violence. Its called discipline and most children are not being disciplined by their parents which is why things like this happen. Both my brother, and myself, and my friends were all spanked when where were children and were not some messed up criminals as you suggest we should be.


How is smacking a child on the ass not considered violent?

You can instill discipline on a child by educating them, spanking them is not necessary. They learn how to be disciplined on their own. The only children that could commit these crimes are the uneducated ones, and these crimes would not happen if they were educated enough. If you are a good person, then you learned how to be a good person by educating yourself, spanking did not play any significant part in it.


Do you know what conditioning is? Have you ever done an experiment before related to it? Take a rat and shock him every time he eats a piece of cheese. Do this about three times. I guarantee you that rat won't eat that piece of cheese again.
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22 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13

Kira0309 wrote:


Do you know what conditioning is? Have you ever done an experiment before related to it? Take a rat and shock him every time he eats a piece of cheese. Do this about three times. I guarantee you that rat won't eat that piece of cheese again.


Why do you assume that people need to be treated like laboratory animals?

A person is capable of conditioning themselves once they are properly educated.
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:


Do you know what conditioning is? Have you ever done an experiment before related to it? Take a rat and shock him every time he eats a piece of cheese. Do this about three times. I guarantee you that rat won't eat that piece of cheese again.


Why do you assume that people need to be treated like laboratory animals?

A person is capable of conditioning themselves once they are properly educated.





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27 / M / Toledo
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Posted 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


justanotherguy_2005 wrote:

Nah. Not all kids will behave just because they are educated and understand everything better. Some kids have to learn that they aren't untouchable and can face harsher punishments for their actions. Spanking all the time of course isn't needed but for situations where the child has done something more severe I think it should be used. Kids are smart and most of them act out because they know that the most that will happen to them in many cases is being told they did wrong and possibly losing material items and not even permanently sometimes.


Exactly, they need to learn this, which is what I meant by education.

Why do you think that spanking is necessary for some situations?

Once they are properly educated, they will never think about acting out again.


I believe spanking is necessary for some situations because when used appropriately it is another effective learning tool. Pain is natural in the world and has served to teach since the first human was born. We can be told not to do something and told why we shouldn't and even if we understand it still might not be enough to deter someone. It's like being told to be careful around a stove because it is hot and telling a kid that being burned hurts a lot. The kid will probably try to be careful around a stove but not as careful as they would be, and will be, once they actually get burned for the first time and feels what it is like.
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Posted 2/9/13

justanotherguy_2005 wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


justanotherguy_2005 wrote:

Nah. Not all kids will behave just because they are educated and understand everything better. Some kids have to learn that they aren't untouchable and can face harsher punishments for their actions. Spanking all the time of course isn't needed but for situations where the child has done something more severe I think it should be used. Kids are smart and most of them act out because they know that the most that will happen to them in many cases is being told they did wrong and possibly losing material items and not even permanently sometimes.


Exactly, they need to learn this, which is what I meant by education.

Why do you think that spanking is necessary for some situations?

Once they are properly educated, they will never think about acting out again.


I believe spanking is necessary for some situations because when used appropriately it is another effective learning tool. Pain is natural in the world and has served to teach since the first human was born. We can be told not to do something and told why we shouldn't and even if we understand it still might not be enough to deter someone. It's like being told to be careful around a stove because it is hot and telling a kid that being burned hurts a lot. The kid will probably try to be careful around a stove but not as careful as they would be, and will be, once they actually get burned for the first time and feels what it is like.


I agree. Just need to make sure you dont implant a trauma or scare the kid for life.
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22 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 7/9/13

justanotherguy_2005 wrote:


I believe spanking is necessary for some situations because when used appropriately it is another effective learning tool. Pain is natural in the world and has served to teach since the first human was born. We can be told not to do something and told why we shouldn't and even if we understand it still might not be enough to deter someone. It's like being told to be careful around a stove because it is hot and telling a kid that being burned hurts a lot. The kid will probably try to be careful around a stove but not as careful as they would be, and will be, once they actually get burned for the first time and feels what it is like.


That is false, if you understand why you shouldn't do something, you will never do it again. Inflicting physical harm on someone does not teach them anything. You should always explain to the best of your ability why they should not misbehave instead of spanking them.

Kikusui10 wrote:


I agree. Just need to make sure you dont implant a trauma or scare the kid for life.


You are implanting trauma on your child the moment you deliberately harm them.
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27 / M / Toledo
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


justanotherguy_2005 wrote:


I believe spanking is necessary for some situations because when used appropriately it is another effective learning tool. Pain is natural in the world and has served to teach since the first human was born. We can be told not to do something and told why we shouldn't and even if we understand it still might not be enough to deter someone. It's like being told to be careful around a stove because it is hot and telling a kid that being burned hurts a lot. The kid will probably try to be careful around a stove but not as careful as they would be, and will be, once they actually get burned for the first time and feels what it is like.


That is false, if you understand why you shouldn't do something, you will never do it again. Inflicting physical harm on someone does not teach them anything. You should always explain to the best of your ability why they should not misbehave instead of spanking them.


It would be nice if what you believe is true but the fact is most people know the difference between right and wrong. They know they shouldn't murder or steal or rape and they know the consequences but they do it anyway. I knew I shouldn't steal. I knew it hurt the person who gets stolen from and I knew there can be serious jail time and financial penalties for stealing but you know what? I still used to steal as a kid. Not because I needed to or anything like that. I did it simply because I could and I didn't care about the possible consequences for it. If I had ever been caught and actually sent to jail then I might have decided that I didn't like the punishment enough to do it again. It is the same thing with spanking. A kid might know all of what I knew and still do something they know they shouldn't but decide they won't do it again once they actually get spanked for it. If a kid knows spanking isn't even a possibility they might decide that what they want to do is worth getting things taken away or whatever punishment it is they would face.


lordseth23 wrote:


Kikusui10 wrote:


I agree. Just need to make sure you dont implant a trauma or scare the kid for life.


You are implanting trauma on your child the moment you deliberately harm them.


Then by your thinking 90%+ of all people used to be traumatized in the past. Right?
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