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3rd graders charged for murder plot
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13

therealjcm wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

You can establish consequences without physically harming your child, you know.


Even among those who do believe in it, I don't think most people these days use a lot of physical punishment. My take on it it is that physical punishment is on the table as a possible consequence of extreme misbehavior. Physical punishments are very rare, but for some kids it has to be an option, because otherwise the kids will escalate to the nuclear option every single time.


Why would it ever be an option? Do you have any idea what the experts' opinion is on this subject?

The only kids that escalate to the nuclear option are the ones that have not been properly educated. Once they have had a satisfactory amount of education, they will never think of acting that way ever again.
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27 / M / with Ashy Larry r...
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Posted 2/9/13
Scary. Children of the Corn scary.
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Posted 2/9/13
children must be left as they are or else tragedy will befall all
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18 / M / Ctf_2fort
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Posted 2/9/13
Dang, what the heck are the parents of those kids teaching their children?
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Posted 2/9/13
> Why would it ever be an option?

Think on it this way: does it make sense that the punishment for yelling at your little brother, stealing a candy bar, and setting a cat on fire are all the same. You can't set a limit on punishment because you can't set a limit on infractions.

> Do you have any idea what the experts' opinion is on this subject?

I believe that experts are often wrong, especially in the soft sciences.


The only kids that escalate to the nuclear option are the ones that have not been properly educated. Once they have had a satisfactory amount of education, they will never think of acting that way ever again.


I have friends and family with some great kids. Even so, every once in a while a kid will be so cranky, or sleepy or just plain ornery that they will not listen to reason, and will get in sort of a "defiance zone" and just keep escalating. At that point a little swat and a stern talking to can achieve what patience and education cannot. I don't think that damages the kid, it just takes them out of their emotional storm long enough to start thinking again.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13

therealjcm wrote:

> Why would it ever be an option?

Think on it this way: does it make sense that the punishment for yelling at your little brother, stealing a candy bar, and setting a cat on fire are all the same. You can't set a limit on punishment because you can't set a limit on infractions.

> Do you have any idea what the experts' opinion is on this subject?

I believe that experts are often wrong, especially in the soft sciences.


The only kids that escalate to the nuclear option are the ones that have not been properly educated. Once they have had a satisfactory amount of education, they will never think of acting that way ever again.


I have friends and family with some great kids. Even so, every once in a while a kid will be so cranky, or sleepy or just plain ornery that they will not listen to reason, and will get in sort of a "defiance zone" and just keep escalating. At that point a little swat and a stern talking to can achieve what patience and education cannot. I don't think that damages the kid, it just takes them out of their emotional storm long enough to start thinking again.


Why do you think you can't set a limit on a punishment?

You do not have a right to call experts wrong if you are not an expert yourself, so go be ignorant somewhere else.
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Posted 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:
You do not have a right to call experts wrong if you are not an expert yourself, so go be ignorant somewhere else.


What I'm saying is that soft sciences lack enough rigor to have proper experts.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13

therealjcm wrote:


What I'm saying is that soft sciences lack enough rigor to have proper experts.


No, they definitely qualify as proper experts because they have learned all of the existing body of knowledge on the subject, so their opinions should be thought of as the truth until they are refined or proven wrong by hard scientific evidence. You have no right to dismiss their opinion until you are an accredited expert yourself and have the knowledge necessary to formulate a different opinion.
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Posted 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:
No, they definitely qualify as proper experts because they have learned all of the existing body of knowledge on the subject, so their opinions should be thought of as the truth until they are refined or proven wrong by hard scientific evidence. You have no right to dismiss their opinion until you are an accredited expert yourself and have the knowledge necessary to formulate a different opinion.


They have learnt cant and and opinion. Their body of knowledge is not subject to proof by logic or evidence gathered by experimentation. It's a belief in how things ought to be, informed by wishful thinking and emotion.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/9/13

therealjcm wrote:

They have learnt cant and and opinion. Their body of knowledge is not subject to proof by logic or evidence gathered by experimentation. It's a belief in how things ought to be, informed by wishful thinking and emotion.


Sorry, the people you speak of are not accredited experts in the field. The knowledge that academics' possess consist of the best proof by logic or evidence.
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15 / M / Earth
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Posted 2/9/13
The kids need therapy and they seems like socipaths
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Posted 2/9/13
Kids need therapy perhaps... parents likely to need it more. I would say that kids don't tend to come to these conclusions unless somehow the idea is okay at home. That, and the teacher must have been a pain in the ass. It's normal to have certain students in a class to not like a particular teacher.. perhaps always on the person's case because they're never doing their homework or what not. But to have that many students from a class to react that way, stuff must have gone down to reach that breaking point. In normal classrooms, you'd think that other students would have totally made a huge fuss about it and defended the teacher.
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27 / M / Toledo
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Posted 2/9/13 , edited 2/9/13

lordseth23 wrote:


justanotherguy_2005 wrote:

Again you are just simply wrong. Don't try to pass your assumptions of me off as facts. I was educated plenty at that point as I already mentioned. It isn't psychological problems that caused me to do anything it was simply my free will. You can't pass free will off as psychological problems either.

Less spanking now is only because of laws against it in various states and countries. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is effective and appropriate or not. As for the rest of that we will just have to agree to disagree since you have provided no facts or statistics and my internet is failing too much for me to continue putting effort into finding statistics for my side of the argument.


No, you obviously weren't educated enough up to that point, or else you wouldn't have stolen anything. Your "free will" needs to adjusted before you commit any serious crimes, just like we should have adjusted James Holmes' and Adam Lanza's "free will" before they commited their atrocities.

Have you ever thought of the reasoning behind those laws? Maybe you should do some research on your own and see why they were implemented in the first place.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/09/spanking-control-childs-bad-behavior.html


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125548136491383915.html

You obviously need mental help if you think free will needs adjusting. With you spouting nonsense like that off I see you are completely unreasonable and based on your other posts afterwards you are just a sheep who will blindly follow what all of these "experts" find. With experts being proven wrong countless times one should always question their findings and realize that they aren't 100% proof and that there are always other variables to account for.

As for why the laws were implemented. Haven't you ever considered the possibility that it is because the society we live in today has shifted over to this politically correct bullshit where everything has to look good regardless of whether or not it actually works? We put numerous systems in place because they make us look better overall but most of the time they are massively flawed and don't work in the long term but we continue using them because they still do their job of keeping up a good appearance.


lordseth23 wrote:



justanotherguy_2005 wrote:


I don't think anyone is talking about just beating a child. I at least, and from what I have seen Kira0309 as well, am talking about using spanking in conjunction with teaching and explaining and only when the child has done something severe enough that they need to know there will be immediate consequences for their actions.


You can establish consequences without physically harming your child, you know.


Sometimes those consequences aren't enough for some children, you know.
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23 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 2/10/13 , edited 2/10/13

justanotherguy_2005 wrote:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125548136491383915.html

You obviously need mental help if you think free will needs adjusting. With you spouting nonsense like that off I see you are completely unreasonable and based on your other posts afterwards you are just a sheep who will blindly follow what all of these "experts" find. With experts being proven wrong countless times one should always question their findings and realize that they aren't 100% proof and that there are always other variables to account for.

As for why the laws were implemented. Haven't you ever considered the possibility that it is because the society we live in today has shifted over to this politically correct bullshit where everything has to look good regardless of whether or not it actually works? We put numerous systems in place because they make us look better overall but most of the time they are massively flawed and don't work in the long term but we continue using them because they still do their job of keeping up a good appearance.




Please don't bring up a 2009 article when more research has been done on the subject and the experts still insist that spanking a child is improper behavior. You have no right to dismiss the opinions of experts when you are not an expert yourself and have no evidence to prove them wrong, so please stop posting if you are just going to be ignorant.
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27 / M / Toledo
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Posted 2/10/13

lordseth23 wrote:


justanotherguy_2005 wrote:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125548136491383915.html

You obviously need mental help if you think free will needs adjusting. With you spouting nonsense like that off I see you are completely unreasonable and based on your other posts afterwards you are just a sheep who will blindly follow what all of these "experts" find. With experts being proven wrong countless times one should always question their findings and realize that they aren't 100% proof and that there are always other variables to account for.

As for why the laws were implemented. Haven't you ever considered the possibility that it is because the society we live in today has shifted over to this politically correct bullshit where everything has to look good regardless of whether or not it actually works? We put numerous systems in place because they make us look better overall but most of the time they are massively flawed and don't work in the long term but we continue using them because they still do their job of keeping up a good appearance.




Please don't bring up a 2009 article when more research has been done on the subject and the experts still insist that spanking a child is improper behavior. You have no right to dismiss the opinions of experts when you are not an expert yourself and have no evidence to prove them wrong, so please stop posting if you are just going to be ignorant.


The article I posted talks about all the research that was discussed in your article and all the flaws with the research that was done. If you think it's irrelevant just because it is 3-4 years old then you are showing just how ignorant you really are. Not to mention the pure and simple FACT that I do have the right to dismiss and disagree with the "experts" OPINIONS. Their research was flawed and has not proven anything. Just blindly follow peoples opinions because they are supposed "experts" who haven't proven anything themselves? That's insane. Were you one of the last holdouts to still think the earth was flat?
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