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A rant about governments in general
Posted 10/5/07

excalion wrote:

Why would its function need to be changed? What you have proposed is a law in itself. Its a law that says "Whenever someone commits a crime, a group of people will come together and see what is wrong with that person. Then they will decide a rightful course of action to take."

Sure that is all nice and dandy until you get the the "decide a rightful course of action to take" part. How do you decide such a thing? In reality you are still being ruled by another's rules. In the united states you are ruled by the judiciary and in the scenario you proposed you are ruled by the small group of people that decided the "rightful course of action" Does that make sense?


You are using a logical fallacy and misinterpreting the context of my words .
This is not a set law or group, it is a situation where a group has become concerned
and taken action. the group has not been predetermined , nor given office of any sort .

Its closer to vigilantism than government, i am aware . An in kind , i also understand that
said group could get " big ideas " .

But this is where the rest of the community says " hey , no . We arent here to be governed . We appreciate you dealing with the problem , but leave it at that.".


Strangely enough , it makes me think more of group of hippies dealing with the guy who keeps bogarting the stash .
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Posted 10/5/07

excalion wrote:


You seem to seek comfort, and so I will bestow upon you security.
Think carefully about this quote: "I am a transparent eyeball, I am nothing, I see all, the currents of the universal being circulate through me, I am part and parcel of God."


That's a good one. I am seeking comfort? Interesting deduction. I am most certainly not seeking comfort, since I am a nihilist, and despise weakness, funny that I should be accused of that. I believe that "grasping the moment" is quite as pointless as not grasping it. The only thing I said is, being logical and reasonable, I think about the consequences of my convictions rather than utter them aimlessly. Even a nihilist has two choices. One is to believe that there is no sense in doing anything and to hate everything. In this case it is indeed better to die, by your own logic, instead of being ridiculously bored all the time. The other option is to believe that there is some good that can be salvaged in this world, an actual purpose that can be created by people themselves (not god, who does not exist), which makes life perhaps worth living.
The problem with equating people to moss is that it DOES justify any type of social behavior as potentially correct, including murder. If you do not believe that human lives are meaningful and worth protecting, what is the purpose of living as moss?

Rant again. Anyway, as I said before, there should not be that much of a problem in organizing a good government. It is much more of a moral problem, with a handful of complete degenerates controlling the rest.
Once again, it was a nice joke about me seeking security.

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Posted 10/5/07

Gev wrote:

You are using a logical fallacy and misinterpreting the context of my words .
This is not a set law or group, it is a situation where a group has become concerned
and taken action. the group has not been predetermined , nor given office of any sort .

Its closer to vigilantism than government, i am aware . An in kind , i also understand that
said group could get " big ideas " .

But this is where the rest of the community says " hey , no . We arent here to be governed . We appreciate you dealing with the problem , but leave it at that.".


Strangely enough , it makes me think more of group of hippies dealing with the guy who keeps bogarting the stash .


What is there to misinterpret? My understanding of the original post is that you despise the control of the government, more so than the government itself. and in your suggestion, you are creating a form of control. A control based off of the judgment of others upon the one who has committed a supposed crime. No matter what kinds of fancy words you try to hide that with, it is what it is. Only it is less severe of a system than the one we currently possess. This reminds me of the government that the Americans first established, trying to break away from the British absolute rule and creating a system where the central government had almost no power. Well we all can see how well that worked out.

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Posted 10/5/07

anvoice wrote:

However, if we assume that our laws are simply means of comfortable interaction within a necessarily imposed state (society) and should not be observed other than if that is convenient, we annul our reason to live completely. It doesn't matter if moss grows or not, or if a bacteria does. Same thing with the human race. Unless we assume that there are some values which are to be protected no matter what.
Wow sounds remarkably cheesy, but meant to be serious.


To me, that is someone screaming for comfort, comfort to be locked inside their own little image of what the world is and afraid to venture outside. Why is it that we hold so dear onto the belief that our existence contains meaning. Because people are cowards who cannot except emptiness. Never the less we are thrust upon such a world and well, from a completely utilitarian logic, let's all create as much happiness as we can and enjoy it. But in the end still realize that such pleasures are empty.

I really...despise humans that hold onto the ideas of God and ideas that our existence holds some higher meaning, they just seem so...pathetic and pitiable to me.
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Posted 10/5/07
a government exists to govern a group of people and if there are no government there would chaos and self-rule doesn't work that well....
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Posted 10/5/07

excalion wrote:


anvoice wrote:

However, if we assume that our laws are simply means of comfortable interaction within a necessarily imposed state (society) and should not be observed other than if that is convenient, we annul our reason to live completely. It doesn't matter if moss grows or not, or if a bacteria does. Same thing with the human race. Unless we assume that there are some values which are to be protected no matter what.
Wow sounds remarkably cheesy, but meant to be serious.


To me, that is someone screaming for comfort, comfort to be locked inside their own little image of what the world is and afraid to venture outside. Why is it that we hold so dear onto the belief that our existence contains meaning. Because people are cowards who cannot except emptiness. Never the less we are thrust upon such a world and well, from a completely utilitarian logic, let's all create as much happiness as we can and enjoy it. But in the end still realize that such pleasures are empty.

I really...despise humans that hold onto the ideas of God and ideas that our existence holds some higher meaning, they just seem so...pathetic and pitiable to me.


Amusing musings there.
Apparently you fail to grasp my point. Do you not know what nihilism is? Let me make myself clear: everybody will die in x number of years. Their purpose in living was as much as that of a rat being eaten by an owl somewhere. In a hundred year there will probably be no trace of you whatsoever. No point at all.
There is no meaning in life.
But, that is only half of it. Your "happiness" that you speak of is extremely boring to me. Why should I seek it? If my life is pointless, then I die and that's it. In any case, I want to live in the only way that could possibly be meaningful.

You, however, might be crying out for security a bit there. Your idea of happiness, which is apparently your stimulus, is clearly not going too well. Lol.
Posted 10/5/07

Kim_Jong_iL wrote:

Why must you criticize my government?


OMFG!!! HAHAHAHAHA, i freaking choked on my pizza reading this, and the icon u have just makes it that much funnier.

Posted 10/5/07
Well, i do have to say i hate some laws,

But!... if we didnt have rules, where would the FUN be in breaking them?!!??
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Posted 10/5/07

anvoice wrote:

Amusing musings there.
Apparently you fail to grasp my point. Do you not know what nihilism is? Let me make myself clear: everybody will die in x number of years. Their purpose in living was as much as that of a rat being eaten by an owl somewhere. In a hundred year there will probably be no trace of you whatsoever. No point at all.
There is no meaning in life.
But, that is only half of it. Your "happiness" that you speak of is extremely boring to me. Why should I seek it? If my life is pointless, then I die and that's it. In any case, I want to live in the only way that could possibly be meaningful.

You, however, might be crying out for security a bit there. Your idea of happiness, which is apparently your stimulus, is clearly not going too well. Lol.


Lol you seem to be quite taken with repeating what I have already said, assuming you even read what I write on here, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the truth was you just read about 2 sentences into my posts and think you know what the whole thing is talking about.

Anyways, the reason why I have such a definition of happiness is because I have to justify my reason of say...not going on the roof right now and leaping to my death. But I am unwilling to justify it with something so pathetic as that human lives have meaning, so I am only able to justify it with a completely utilitarian logic, happiness is better than sadness, and thus concluding one should seek happiness.

You speak as if you understand our true nature, but your views are limited and your points dull from my perspective. Your view is restrained, by perhaps the shortness of your vision and thus you are only able to see as far as things that you are able to interact with. Such as animals and nature, which you have made many references to. Let me ask you this, how have you come to your various conclusions? If you are merely repeating the wisdom of another you have read in a book, I pity you more than I have before.

And quite contrary to your suggestion, and probably your belief, I understand your point completely, after all, the one with higher vantage is able to see all those beneath him. While I will give you credit for rising above the general populace in your deductions, assuming they are your own, but the degree of such transcendence is still...limited. You are held back by the many burdens placed on you by society and I think I see you are struggling to break free of them.
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Posted 10/5/07
This is the funniest thing I have seen on this forum ^^

By the way, I also felt you are repeating my points, and same thing with the vantage point lol. Actually, if I understand you point of view correctly, I think I agree with you ^^

It did look as if you didn't really read my post, or maybe I am not expressing myself clearly.
The thing that stimulates deduction most is arrogance. Congratulations, maybe you are on a higher level of perception. Too hard to judge from just that.
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Posted 10/5/07
I think we have come to terms so I will finish with the repetition of one of my favorite quotes, although it speaks of God, the meaning it conveys is...quite dear to me, as it is the mental state I try to achieve each time I ponder of our world.

"I am a transparent eyeball, I am nothing, I see all, the currents of the universal being circulate through me, I am part and parcel of God."


P.S. I do apologize for any hostilities felt in my posts, they are not intentional but sometimes I get a little carried away... >.<
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Posted 10/5/07
Don't mention it ^^
I'm way too arrogant to get mad, honestly.
Posted 10/5/07
critisizing the government can be considered treason. treason is a felony offense. to answer gev's question about obeying the land's law from which you were born, you should follow the law and be loyal to country. i dont see why americans should be raving about the government, especially since at least they enjoy many multitudes of freedoms.
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Posted 10/5/07
A rather limited view don't you think? Oh well.
Posted 10/5/07

anvoice wrote:

A rather limited view don't you think? Oh well.


no, im simply fiercely loyal to land and leader. i think everyone should have at least half-assed loyalty.
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