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Atheists and Agnostics Thread
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29 / M / Cambridge UK
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Posted 10/12/07

anvoice wrote:


openmindedatheist wrote:


anvoice wrote:

How in the world can you be an atheist and be respectful of others' religions? That is a completely invalid statement. If you are among the people who use reason and evidence (atheist) rather than fantasy and hopeful thinking (theist) to define your world, you would not be respectful of something you know is wrong. These just do not go together. These kinds of people are confused, not atheist.
Interesting enough that people that do not have faith have been branded as "atheists", it makes it sound like it's a religion of not believing in god rather than a default state of human consciousness.


Wow, you really don't grasp the concept of atheism. If an Atheist is respectful or disrespectful depends on the individual.


Not really, I believe you are not thinking into anything beyond the surface, hence you make weak statements such as this. I think very carefully about what I say, so saying "you really don't grasp" something to me is laughable. Besides, you just criticized me without offering any evidence or backup statements.



of course your statement goes both ways anvoice if an atheist can not respect the views of a Christian because he is certain some of them are false, then neither can a Christian respect an atheist's views because if he truly believes in the face value of his dogma then he would see the atheist's views as false and condemning. What you're essentially saying is that humans with conflicting core beliefs can never respectfully co-exist with each other, rather pessimistic don't you think ?

edited for poor grammar. (your and you're doh!)
Posted 10/12/07

anvoice wrote:

Please learn to read. What I meant is that you said I did not grasp something and left it at that. If you want to discuss how I am wrong, explain more clearly (hint: you are wrong because *intelligent supporting statement*).


I think the problem here is that you only see black or white . Try seeing a few shades of gray.

Not everything is an Oreo
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Posted 10/12/07

openmindedatheist wrote:


Josey wrote:



Ya just keep an open mind. There are many Christians who respect atheists decision. If I had to guess, I would say that there are a higher percentage of Christians who respect Atheist's.


Oh yeah, absolutely! I am very open minded ^_^ I forgot to mention that in my mispelt rant -_- oops. Many of my close friends are christian, and some are even Hare Krishna's (I have NO idea if I spelt that right). If anything, we try not to mention it, but if we do, it can turn out to be a really interesting conversation (but not too often, or I get suicidal)


HokiePokie wrote:


Josey wrote:



Oh my.... talk about rude Christians. "It was God's will ---- died." How could any TRUE christian say such a thing? That's just sooo fucking cruel of a thing to say, I mean really now... she's probably implying that the woman was a BAD christian, and she sinned like a manwoman, or something. God damn, Josey, if I were you, I'd have slapped the bitch. But I guess Josey is more calm of a person than I am :3.



I....I can't tell if you're being sarcastic o.o I'l answer you honestly whichever way

I wasn't that calm ^_^" I would've been crying if I wasn't wearing make-up at the time. Heh, it was the day after I told this woman that god didn't help my strongly good christian friends family that my friends mother died. That made me feel kind of like it was my fault. But hell, it was gods will right?

I have a really stuck up Christian friend, who I try to avoid the topic with completely. Let's call him...Timmy, for the sake of my example below;

Timmy: Don't you ever feel the need to be happier though? Or like you'll have someone who'll always love you? Because God will, and does.
Me: No. I don't. Not at all. Actually, I'm very comfortable with myself. I don't feel the need to change myself, or repent for my sins, though that would take a very long time. I doubt god would forgive me, even if he did exist.
Timmy: (At this point Timmy puts his hand my knee, give it a shake, give me a creepy smile/laugh, and a pitiful look) That's not right, god will forgive anyone. Even the Muslims (sorry to any muslims reading this thread, but I am quoting a dickwad)
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Posted 10/12/07
anvoice: Practice what you preach

How in the world can you be an atheist and be respectful of others' religions? That is a completely invalid statement.

Please state why it is an invalid statement

If you are among the people who use reason and evidence (atheist) rather than fantasy and hopeful thinking (theist) to define your world,

what argument do you have as to why reason and evidence is used only by atheists?
On what basis are you so certain that atheists do not use wishful or hopeful thinking as well?

Do you really think it is not possible for a theist to use reason and evidence? ever heard of oh I don't know theistic philosophers?


Not really, I believe you are not thinking into anything beyond the surface, hence you make weak statements such as this.

Once again you do not point out why this is a weak statement.


Besides, you just criticized me without offering any evidence or backup statements.

Just like you did.
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29 / M / North Carolina
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Posted 10/12/07

Josey wrote:


openmindedatheist wrote:


Josey wrote:



Ya just keep an open mind. There are many Christians who respect atheists decision. If I had to guess, I would say that there are a higher percentage of Christians who respect Atheist's.


Oh yeah, absolutely! I am very open minded ^_^ I forgot to mention that in my mispelt rant -_- oops. Many of my close friends are christian, and some are even Hare Krishna's (I have NO idea if I spelt that right). If anything, we try not to mention it, but if we do, it can turn out to be a really interesting conversation (but not too often, or I get suicidal)


HokiePokie wrote:


Josey wrote:



Oh my.... talk about rude Christians. "It was God's will ---- died." How could any TRUE christian say such a thing? That's just sooo fucking cruel of a thing to say, I mean really now... she's probably implying that the woman was a BAD christian, and she sinned like a manwoman, or something. God damn, Josey, if I were you, I'd have slapped the bitch. But I guess Josey is more calm of a person than I am :3.



I....I can't tell if you're being sarcastic o.o I'l answer you honestly whichever way

I wasn't that calm ^_^" I would've been crying if I wasn't wearing make-up at the time. Heh, it was the day after I told this woman that god didn't help my strongly good christian friends family that my friends mother died. That made me feel kind of like it was my fault. But hell, it was gods will right?

I have a really stuck up Christian friend, who I try to avoid the topic with completely. Let's call him...Timmy, for the sake of my example below;

Timmy: Don't you ever feel the need to be happier though? Or like you'll have someone who'll always love you? Because God will, and does.
Me: No. I don't. Not at all. Actually, I'm very comfortable with myself. I don't feel the need to change myself, or repent for my sins, though that would take a very long time. I doubt god would forgive me, even if he did exist.
Timmy: (At this point Timmy puts his hand my knee, give it a shake, give me a creepy smile/laugh, and a pitiful look) That's not right, god will forgive anyone. Even the Muslims (sorry to any muslims reading this thread, but I am quoting a dickwad)


What I meant was that lady probably thought your friends mom was a terrible person and Christian. And so she said "It was God's will" like she didn't give a shit about how hard it was on the family/friend. Now I'm sure she was a nice person, and so is your friend, but what I'm trying to say is, the woman most likely didn't. If that's what you thought I was being sarcastic about.

If you thought about the calm comment, I was serious there also. O.o I wouldn't have been able to keep my cool, and NOT slap her really hard. :3 She would've deserve it anyways.
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Posted 10/12/07

HokiePokie wrote:

What I meant was that lady probably thought your friends mom was a terrible person and Christian. And so she said "It was God's will" like she didn't give a shit about how hard it was on the family/friend. Now I'm sure she was a nice person, and so is your friend, but what I'm trying to say is, the woman most likely didn't. If that's what you thought I was being sarcastic about.

If you thought about the calm comment, I was serious there also. O.o I wouldn't have been able to keep my cool, and NOT slap her really hard. :3 She would've deserve it anyways.


Haha, it was the calm comment ^_^ I mean, I even ranted on the internet, and this was over a year ago. Clearly I have issues :O

As an Atheist, I have also commented about how I don't believe in hope, and how hope is a futile thing to have. I think this coincides with my lack of faith.

Although, maybe I'm just pessimistic.
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Posted 10/12/07
Hi again ^^


mauz15 wrote:

anvoice: Practice what you preach

How in the world can you be an atheist and be respectful of others' religions? That is a completely invalid statement.

Please state why it is an invalid statement

If you are among the people who use reason and evidence (atheist) rather than fantasy and hopeful thinking (theist) to define your world,

what argument do you have as to why reason and evidence is used only by atheists?
On what basis are you so certain that atheists do not use wishful or hopeful thinking as well?

Do you really think it is not possible for a theist to use reason and evidence? ever heard of oh I don't know theistic philosophers?


Not really, I believe you are not thinking into anything beyond the surface, hence you make weak statements such as this.

Once again you do not point out why this is a weak statement.


Besides, you just criticized me without offering any evidence or backup statements.

Just like you did.


To the last 2 points: not really because I did not intend to argue why the statement was weak. It is rather clear.

I know that using reason cannot result in the deduction made by theists, therefore I say that. Of course they use logic to solve their math, but I'm not sure how that proves they are reasonable.

Yes I am saying people with THESE different types of core beliefs cannot respect each other. I prefer "realistic" to pessimistic.

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29 / M / Cambridge UK
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Posted 10/12/07

openmindedatheist wrote:

I really like theology and symbolism. I guess i just take it in a little (a lot) different than a "believer".


me to, I have read through all the books of the bible and many other ancient and dogmatic text out of pritty much interest alone as i was not born into any strict dogma and i have to say they are truly brilliant in so many, though personally i much prefer to read between the lines when studying the bible, especially old testament being as its cobbled together of so many ancient pre judeo-christian dogmas , which gets particularly interesting when you compare the alternative translations. baring in mind that ancient Hebrew as a language was completely lost at one point in history so translating it is very open to the writers interpretation. some of the face value sunday school interpretations seems very shallow when its looked at in that way.

any how off-topic ramble out of the way, i have nether really had reason to commit to any particular religious institute, i believe that man doesn't needs any institution to guide him in spiritual matters be they totalitarian religious monoliths or trendy eastern gurus (i think theres a good quote for Christ himself which says something similar but i cant remember which books its from tbh).

Im quite keen on the idea of some higher consciousness out there, probably shouldn't say that as a scientist, though i have little in the way of evidence to back it up this half faith bar a seemingly endless supply of probability defying coincidences and wouldn't feel the need to preach it to anyone.

I guess agnostic is the best description i have for now. I'd like to think i'm a respectful agnostic but i love to start intelligent discussions (arguments) with people to get them to explain their beliefs (i see no reason to have faith in something if you are in capable to defending your reasons for doing so) which probably comes of as Christian bashing to those who like to put their fingers in their ears and yell obscenities if anyone asks them to think about their religion. . .
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Posted 10/12/07

anvoice wrote:

I prefer "realistic" to pessimistic.



I've been told that by my friend who read my personal statement, where I quoted myself saying 'Hope is a futile thing to have". I just hope the university thinks so too!
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Posted 10/12/07
11tc Have you ever read Pascal's theorem on religion?
46535 cr points
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Posted 10/12/07
anvoice

All I see is a bunch of words and you again fail to say WHY you think that

I know that using reason cannot*** result in the deduction made by theists

Why?

This forum is to discuss things, if you say something is invalid please say why that is.

*moves on*
Posted 10/12/07
well we need seperate names to distinguish them because even if they're the same, they're stil not identical lol xD
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24 / M / State of Confusion
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Posted 10/12/07
What do you mean?
Posted 10/12/07

anvoice wrote:


It is rather clear.



Only in your head.
Posted 10/12/07
Basically what it comes down too is this....

Anti-religious extremists are just as big of douche bags as Religious extremists.


Trevor (OP)
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