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which of these philosophical sayings do you agree with the most
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Posted 10/11/08
What is to be simple? what is not?

In this time there is no such things as a simple life anymore...
because life is complex, monetary-dependent, increasing need, fast-phased and progressing

is there a such simplicity left?

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Posted 10/11/08
the lone wolf is stronger than the pack leader


that makes sense...casue a poor person has more experience thatn the rich
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Posted 10/11/08

dmitsuki wrote:


brogits wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


brogits wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


DKangN3 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
Also, thanks for proving my point :)


My entire post was an explanation of why your metaphor was weak and irrelevant. I think you've pretty much shown me that there's no point in me taking you seriously.


In trying to show that you showed that I was right. Good job!


to dmitsuki: i cant help but feel infuriated by your posts...sorry for sticking my nose into this but dude you're arguments are so fallacious >.< (u're making a category mistake, a faulty analogy)....and despite the obvious weakness in your argument, u're still insisting it! "In trying to show that you showed that I was right. Good job!"??? sarcasm i cant bear....*facepalm*....so infuriating...grrr...



I said, just like animals, we live in a system driven by power. He then responded to me saying I was wrong, the then described how humans constantly put in place infrastructures based on power to give power to the weak. Nothing has changed, the society is still driven by power. He then says that all the that I have talked about have been changed. Well, yes, they have. Slavery was Abolished by a Civil War, in other words, a bitch slap by the alpha male (North won the war, things went there way). Women were treated equal through fight and struggle, not by sitting waiting for it to happen. Country's are founded on war and fighting, people's ideals are protected through fighting, while not always physically, it is still fighting. Right now, if you walked outside and killed a man, wouldn't the government come to stop you IE police? So, if you were more powerful then the government, what would stop you from doing whatever you wanted? Moral obligation? Well, if you think it would, then, there would be no reason for laws.

Essentially, he just described that the way our power is distributed is complex, but, multiplication is more complex then addition, but at it's root, it's still addition.

"The only thing standing between me and the world, are all those scary men with guns."

Oh wait I'm sorry, we live in a shiny world full of rainbows and pony's crapping out magical shit balls We are so far ahead of animals that we don't exhibit any of there behavioral patterns or bare any resemblance to them whatsoever, we are Gods. Now, back in the real world....


*BIG SIGH*....u really dont get it do you? ....i sed, that's faulty analogy...


I said, just like animals, we live in a system driven by power. He then responded to me saying I was wrong, the then described how humans constantly put in place infrastructures based on power to give power to the weak. Nothing has changed, the society is still driven by power.


the argument is structured the same, but the conclusion is obviously incorrect...u're incorrectly extending the similarity between the two into a totally different level...but you cant cuz a similarity in one area doesn't imply a similarity in another...you can never compare the the situation of humans to that of the animals because they don't fall under the same category...no matter what you say, animals and humans are under different standards of behavior, they have different ways of life (ever heard of cultural relativism? animals and humans have different social contexts)....oh, and don't use that stupid metaphor, it's very misleading...


Learn yourself something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal

All animals are similar, no two animals are the same.

Of course if you can't understand that if two things are exactly the same they can still be compared with there similarity's then I give up and am going back to programing my game.

P.S. Penis.


stupid beyond words... i cant believe i actually wasted my time talking to someone sooo INCREDIBLY stupid.
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Posted 10/12/08
Actually i do agree with all of them,with the exception of 2 which might not be true.
Posted 10/12/08

brogits wrote:


stupid beyond words... i cant believe i actually wasted my time talking to someone sooo INCREDIBLY stupid.

It's obvious you have nothing more to say relating to the topic at hand so...

no u
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Posted 10/13/08

dmitsuki wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


brogits wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


brogits wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


DKangN3 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
Also, thanks for proving my point :)


My entire post was an explanation of why your metaphor was weak and irrelevant. I think you've pretty much shown me that there's no point in me taking you seriously.


In trying to show that you showed that I was right. Good job!


to dmitsuki: i cant help but feel infuriated by your posts...sorry for sticking my nose into this but dude you're arguments are so fallacious >.< (u're making a category mistake, a faulty analogy)....and despite the obvious weakness in your argument, u're still insisting it! "In trying to show that you showed that I was right. Good job!"??? sarcasm i cant bear....*facepalm*....so infuriating...grrr...



I said, just like animals, we live in a system driven by power. He then responded to me saying I was wrong, the then described how humans constantly put in place infrastructures based on power to give power to the weak. Nothing has changed, the society is still driven by power. He then says that all the that I have talked about have been changed. Well, yes, they have. Slavery was Abolished by a Civil War, in other words, a bitch slap by the alpha male (North won the war, things went there way). Women were treated equal through fight and struggle, not by sitting waiting for it to happen. Country's are founded on war and fighting, people's ideals are protected through fighting, while not always physically, it is still fighting. Right now, if you walked outside and killed a man, wouldn't the government come to stop you IE police? So, if you were more powerful then the government, what would stop you from doing whatever you wanted? Moral obligation? Well, if you think it would, then, there would be no reason for laws.

Essentially, he just described that the way our power is distributed is complex, but, multiplication is more complex then addition, but at it's root, it's still addition.

"The only thing standing between me and the world, are all those scary men with guns."

Oh wait I'm sorry, we live in a shiny world full of rainbows and pony's crapping out magical shit balls We are so far ahead of animals that we don't exhibit any of there behavioral patterns or bare any resemblance to them whatsoever, we are Gods. Now, back in the real world....


*BIG SIGH*....u really dont get it do you? ....i sed, that's faulty analogy...


I said, just like animals, we live in a system driven by power. He then responded to me saying I was wrong, the then described how humans constantly put in place infrastructures based on power to give power to the weak. Nothing has changed, the society is still driven by power.


the argument is structured the same, but the conclusion is obviously incorrect...u're incorrectly extending the similarity between the two into a totally different level...but you cant cuz a similarity in one area doesn't imply a similarity in another...you can never compare the the situation of humans to that of the animals because they don't fall under the same category...no matter what you say, animals and humans are under different standards of behavior, they have different ways of life (ever heard of cultural relativism? animals and humans have different social contexts)....oh, and don't use that stupid metaphor, it's very misleading...


Learn yourself something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal

All animals are similar, no two animals are the same.

Of course if you can't understand that if two things are exactly the same they can still be compared with there similarity's then I give up and am going back to programing my game.

P.S. Penis.




brogits wrote:


stupid beyond words... i cant believe i actually wasted my time talking to someone sooo INCREDIBLY stupid.



it's obvious you have nothing more to say relating to the topic at hand so...

no u


fyi stupid guy, you were the one who implied in your previous post that you were busy so i thought it practically pointless throwing you any more arguments. i dint even expect you to reply any further cuz as you said,

I give up and am going back to programing my game.
...sheesh, u really are stupid aren't you?

you know what, i thought at first you were worth arguing with because you talked in a such a know-it-all manner (i've read some of your posts in other threads)....but i was disappointed to find out that u're not what i thought u were....read my posts again (including DKangN3's posts and your replies to them), perhaps that would shed some light into your confused mind....i don't think i must repeat myself here..that would be redundant and stupid. talk to me only when you have understood what i said and when you have formulated an acceptable counter-argument already....

i don't think there's any reason for me to talk to someone who doesn't even understand my point, so bye to you stupid guy...you just wasted my time...oh and, based on your previous statements, i bet u're going to post something irrelevant again like curse words or that useless "P.S. Penis" remark...well dont bother, okaaay? u'll just ruin this thread.
Posted 10/13/08

brogits wrote:

fyi stupid guy, you were the one who implied in your previous post that you were busy so i thought it practically pointless throwing you any more arguments. i dint even expect you to reply any further cuz as you said,

I give up and am going back to programing my game.
...sheesh, u really are stupid aren't you?

you know what, i thought at first you were worth arguing with because you talked in a such a know-it-all manner (i've read some of your posts in other threads)....but i was disappointed to find out that u're not what i thought u were....read my posts again (including DKangN3's posts and your replies to them), perhaps that would shed some light into your confused mind....i don't think i must repeat myself here..that would be redundant and stupid. talk to me only when you have understood what i said and when you have formulated an acceptable counter-argument already....

i don't think there's any reason for me to talk to someone who doesn't even understand my point, so bye to you stupid guy...you just wasted my time...oh and, based on your previous statements, i bet u're going to post something irrelevant again like curse words or that useless "P.S. Penis" remark...well dont bother, okaaay? u'll just ruin this thread.


Allow me to translate what you said.

"Until you agree with me, don't waste my time."

I know exactly what you are both saying, don't blame me if YOU don't understand thing's like branch's. And the P.S.? Well, after you said
"the argument is structured the same, but the conclusion is obviously incorrect...u're incorrectly extending the similarity between the two into a totally different level...but you cant cuz a similarity in one area doesn't imply a similarity in another"
I completely gave up hope that you had a shed of intelligence. I said both society's were driven by power. You then both decided that I was wrong. Before I feel out my chair laughing, I managed to reply to you. All you are both saying is that human society is more complex then animal society's therefore they cannot be compared. A perfect example of this was his or yours or whoever's comment on the police. Wow, that's just distribution of power, and it only works if the police are more powerful then opposition. If you cannot understand the sheer amount of LOL in what you guys are saying, well, that's to bad. Me and my friend's here will just keep getting good laughs out of your comments :3.

Also, you should win a award for that "so bye to you stupid guy" LOL so lulzy..

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Posted 10/13/08

dmitsuki wrote:
I know exactly what you are both saying, don't blame me if YOU don't understand thing's like branch's.


Branches? I don't see how that's applicable in any way to the point you're trying to prove of humans and other animals being exactly the same despite their intellectual and moral differences because both can be explained in terms of power. Feel free to elaborate.


dmitsuki wrote:
I said both society's were driven by power. You then both decided that I was wrong.


Not for the reason you're implying. Read again.


dmitsuki wrote:
All you are both saying is that human society is more complex then animal society's therefore they cannot be compared.


I was explaining the fundamental differences between humans and other animals that create this difference in complexity, and thus why they couldn't be compared in this respect.


dmitsuki wrote:
A perfect example of this was his or yours or whoever's comment on the police. Wow, that's just distribution of power, and it only works if the police are more powerful then opposition.


It really doesn't matter if the law enforcement agencies work or not; my entire reason for touching on that was to give a tangible example of human society that clearly differentiates it from animal society.

Here's what you're trying to argue.

Because humans and animals both interact in ways that can be explained through the general principles of power, despite obvious differences in motive, intellect, and execution, and notwithstanding the fact that these principles can be similarly applied to almost every other sort of interaction in the world, they are just like one another.

Here's why that's wrong.

As the distribution and interplay of power is not something applicable only to humans and/or animals, it cannot be used as an exclusive measure of likeness between the two -- as you try to use it. That's as plain as I can make it for you. Or wait, let's try this:

a) Animals and Humans are different in terms of Humanity.
b) Nature can be explained in terms of Power.
c) Animals and Humans and Plants fall under the umbrella of Nature.
d) Animals and Humans and Plants are similar in terms of Power.
e) thus, Animals and Humans and Plants are not different in terms of Humanity because they are similar in terms of Power.

I agree with points A to D, as I've stated in previous posts. But I simply can't comprehend how you come to conclude point E. Please explain.

Also, just to put it out there, if your post is anything less than intelligent and coherent, I'm done with this thread.
Posted 10/13/08

DKangN3 wrote:

a) Animals and Humans are different in terms of Humanity.
b) Nature can be explained in terms of Power.
c) Animals and Humans and Plants fall under the umbrella of Nature.
d) Animals and Humans and Plants are similar in terms of Power.
e) thus, Animals and Humans and Plants are not different in terms of Humanity because they are similar in terms of Power.

I agree with points A to D, as I've stated in previous posts. But I simply can't comprehend how you come to conclude point E. Please explain.

Also, just to put it out there, if your post is anything less than intelligent and coherent, I'm done with this thread.


All society's are based off power, whoever has the most, controls how shit works. =/= Animals and Humans and Plants are not different in terms of Humanity because they are similar in terms of Power.

All society's are based off power, whoever has the most, controls how shit works. = All animal and plant society's are similar in there basic foundation, and more closely related then you put them off to be.

I really don't ever remember saying we were exactly the same as animals in all social aspects. I do remember, and just quoted myself, saying that we are similar. Animal society's are driven solely off of survival of the fittest, in a human society, due to people's foundations such as morals, we make it where even the not so fit have a good chance at life. The point I WAS making, which seems to be lost somewhere, is that society's are driven by power, and who has the most power can control how thing's work.
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Posted 10/14/08
Final post. Let me point out the source of this entire argument.


dmitsuki wrote:


DKangN3 wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:
Politics. Even though almost all animals that live in groups have some sort of hierarchy system, ours seems much more complicated than it needs to be. It's so complex because there are so many people who want to benefit from the "system" and can't be content with just living their lives and cooperating with others. If buffaloes and lions can work together within their groups relatively peacefully without always trying to out-do each other, then why can't we?


I really find it mind boggling when people try to compare humans to other animals. Apples and oranges.

If a buffalo or lion wanted equal rights he'd get bitch slapped by the alpha male. Basically they don't share in uniquely human concepts, like honor, equality, or jealousy, etc, which is where all our "complications" come from.



Wait, how is human society any different again?

... All society's are based off power, whoever has the most, controls how shit works.


I clearly and distinctly point out my frame of reference for the difference between animals and humans. Humans can't live "relatively peacefully without always trying to out-do each other" like animals can because "[animals] don't share in uniquely human concepts". Then you come in with, "Wait, how is human society any different again?" which implies you're directly refuting my claim. I agree with your initial point, that society is run by those with power, and then distinguish how it's completely irrelevant to my point. At this stage, you should've explained why it wasn't, or agreed that it was. You completely misunderstand my post or fail to comprehend the important bits, and attempt to be clever, implying that you disagree with my distinction of your point, i.e. that it's irrelevant. Someone tries to explain to you the difference between the two, and you spew out some more nonsense about how your point directly refuted mine. I lay out the bones of the argument as clearly as possible, and you come up with this:


dmitsuki wrote:
All animal and plant society's are similar in there basic foundation, and more closely related then you put them off to be.

The point I WAS making, which seems to be lost somewhere, is that society's are driven by power, and who has the most power can control how thing's work.


I agreed that they were similar in terms of power. Go read that line again. Or here, I'll quote it for you.


DKangN3 wrote:
Now we get to yours; society is run by those with power. Sure, this is a fact. But how do you go from there to, "thus we're just like animals"?

...

The interplay of "power" is something that holds constant across nature as a whole, whether animal or plant. Using the bitch slap analogy for a plant, if two trees were growing in relatively close proximity and had to compete for water, one would "bitch slap" the other and leech all or most of the water from the soil, resulting in the other tree's death. One was more "powerful". So are we the same as a plant, too?


Again, I'm still operating under a humanistic frame of reference, something you seem to have missed from the get-go, and something I mistakenly thought was so painfully obvious as not to need explication. We come back to your final statement which I'll re-post to emphasize that you still don't understand what I'm talking about.


dmitsuki wrote:
All animal and plant society's are similar in there basic foundation, and more closely related then you put them off to be.

The point I WAS making, which seems to be lost somewhere, is that society's are driven by power, and who has the most power can control how thing's work.


So I put them off to be different in terms of their humanistic values, something you seemed to agree with, yet somehow you're still saying that they're more closely related than I put them off to be (in terms of their humanistic values), due to the general application of the principles of power?

The point you were making was lost when I agreed with it, and thus ended any further discussion on it, yet you came back into the thread with retarded comments in an attempt to "prove me wrong" on my other points.

Learn how to fucking read.
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Posted 10/14/08 , edited 10/14/08

dmitsuki wrote:


brogits wrote:

fyi stupid guy, you were the one who implied in your previous post that you were busy so i thought it practically pointless throwing you any more arguments. i dint even expect you to reply any further cuz as you said,

I give up and am going back to programing my game.
...sheesh, u really are stupid aren't you?

you know what, i thought at first you were worth arguing with because you talked in a such a know-it-all manner (i've read some of your posts in other threads)....but i was disappointed to find out that u're not what i thought u were....read my posts again (including DKangN3's posts and your replies to them), perhaps that would shed some light into your confused mind....i don't think i must repeat myself here..that would be redundant and stupid. talk to me only when you have understood what i said and when you have formulated an acceptable counter-argument already....

i don't think there's any reason for me to talk to someone who doesn't even understand my point, so bye to you stupid guy...you just wasted my time...oh and, based on your previous statements, i bet u're going to post something irrelevant again like curse words or that useless "P.S. Penis" remark...well dont bother, okaaay? u'll just ruin this thread.


Allow me to translate what you said.

"Until you agree with me, don't waste my time."

I know exactly what you are both saying, don't blame me if YOU don't understand thing's like branch's. And the P.S.? Well, after you said
"the argument is structured the same, but the conclusion is obviously incorrect...u're incorrectly extending the similarity between the two into a totally different level...but you cant cuz a similarity in one area doesn't imply a similarity in another"
I completely gave up hope that you had a shed of intelligence. I said both society's were driven by power. You then both decided that I was wrong. Before I feel out my chair laughing, I managed to reply to you. All you are both saying is that human society is more complex then animal society's therefore they cannot be compared. A perfect example of this was his or yours or whoever's comment on the police. Wow, that's just distribution of power, and it only works if the police are more powerful then opposition. If you cannot understand the sheer amount of LOL in what you guys are saying, well, that's to bad. Me and my friend's here will just keep getting good laughs out of your comments :3.

Also, you should win a award for that "so bye to you stupid guy" LOL so lulzy..





Until you agree with me, don't waste my time.


correction: i won't waste my time talking to you unless you reply in a sensible manner....don't give me that link about animals...that was completely beating around the bush...you were just wasting my time...i was not asking for an explanation about animals...i was asking for you to clarify your point and defend your thesis in a straightforward manner.



All you are both saying is that human society is more complex then animal society's therefore they cannot be compared.


what makes you think this statement is wrong? humans and animals have different social contexts...they have different cultures, different needs...they may be similar to some degree (e.g. we need food, animals need food too, etc.), but they are still different in so many other aspects. you cant conclude directly that both are the same.

you are committing a logical fallacy...
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Posted 10/14/08
i agree with the last one. haha.
oh wells. that's life isnt it.

"it is human nature to treasure something only after you've lost it."
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