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God Can Not Know Everything
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 5/7/08
"God (a supernatural being) knows everything. My question is, did God already know that the event would happen? It is puzzling since God knows everything, including what will happen in the future."

*edited by mauz15
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08
looool
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08
There is no God. That is all.
Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08
God is not human, far greater than anything a human mind can conceive, to think you can put logic into what he/she is, as a human, is foolish
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08
God knows everything. I believe that. I dont really care if you believe or not. But it seems to me that you're trying to force your own beliefs on others. Tsk tsk.
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

It has occurred to me that it is logically impossible for god to be omniscient. The reason? God must perceive things in some way. Although this way may be totally unlike that of humans he must or else he understand nothing about the universe or reality. The reason he can not know all is that the possibility exists that another being who is more powerful created him, and then put the memories of existing for eternity in his mind. Perception can not really prove anything, as perceptions can be mistaken and manipulated by others. The only thing we can be sure of is our own existence, which we confirm by out thoughts. We can not really be sure of anything else, and since god can not eliminate the possibility above, he is not omniscient, and indeed omniscience is a logical impossibility.


So are you saying in the first paragraph that mankind knows everything about the universe? With this logic one could say that because we are human and God is other, that we are not alike, which means that we know nothing of God's mind. If I take a neutral standpoint and say that God -does- exist, then it would mean that God created the universe and life (including humans) If God can create it, then God understands it perfectly. Humans, however, do not posses the understanding to create on the same level of God (we can make works of art, machines, study what God has created, but we can not create matter or a universe) This means that human logic is inferior to God's, WE cannot comprehend GOD. How can non omniscient beings judge the omniscience of God? Your argument is only valid if humans completely understand the universe and reality (you stated that God does not think like humans "Although this way may be totally unlike that of humans he must or else he understand nothing about the universe or reality.") For this to be valid, humans must be omniscient and understand all of reality and the universe. Of course humans are flawed and do not understand the universe and reality completely, therefore we are inferior to God and have no validity in saying that God is not omniscient. God's understanding is complete, on an infinitely higher level than that of humanities.
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


g31025 wrote:

God knows everything. I believe that. I dont really care if you believe or not. But it seems to me that you're trying to force your own beliefs on others. Tsk tsk.


Oh Im sorry if posting my thoughts on something is "forcing my beliefs on others" . Get real.


I am real. If not I wont be posting in your thread. And btw, I said it seems. I wonder what God's thinking about you now. Can I ask you....

3. Our perception may be flawed, and for all we truly know we were created 5 seconds ago with the memory of the rest of our lives put into out heads by some super powerful being.

Its like you're saying we may have never existed before until this very moment. For all we know, (Im saying this from your point of view now) what we are doing now doesnt even exist. It just our memory having a "re-run" Correct? If thats the case, then everything we know might not be real at all. Your friends, families, feelings that you have felt are nothing but fake stuff implanted in our heads. Is that what you are trying to say?

4.Since god can never truly know anything outside perceptions (a logical impossibility) there is no way for god to know that there was not a creator creator who has manipulated his perceptions.

If so then, who the hell is the creator's creator?

"If there is a creator's creator, then who is the creator's creator's creator?"

That kind of thought would just carry on forever.
Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:
4.Since god can never truly know anything outside perceptions (a logical impossibility) there is no way for god to know that there was not a creator creator who has manipulated his perceptions.

You should read about the Demiurge.
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08
so you are saying there is a being that made God? And in order to judge omniscience we must be omniscient. Kinda like trying to grade a paper but not knowing any of the answers and givinig the paper a 0 because "the person who wrote it does not have the same thinking pattern as me, my thinking pattern is flawed, but in my opinion I am superior and therefore may make an extrapolated conclusion based on no data." you even state that "god is beyond our understanding." Why does God have to perceive solely on a human level? Why can't God, in your opinion, understand humans and the universe? Technically in order to be omniscient, should God have to understand humans and everything else? Someone can make a creation (for example, a computer) if they created it, than they know everything there is to know about it (the thought, compiled, and completely understand why and how it works) does this mean that their logic is limited to that creation? No it doesn't. God is omniscient, and as stated before, in order for that to be true, God must understand humans in full too (after all God did create us) and just because God created humanity, does not mean that God's logic and knowledge is limited to that of humans.
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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08
I don't think that what you are describing should be called a god in the first place. It would merely be a very powerful being. This is only my belief, but a true God should be beyond the reach of any human logic. If what you are calling "god" cannot do what would normally be considered logically impossible then they are not "God".
Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:


shibole wrote:


magnus102 wrote:
4.Since god can never truly know anything outside perceptions (a logical impossibility) there is no way for god to know that there was not a creator creator who has manipulated his perceptions.

You should read about the Demiurge.

I have. Are you talking about the demiurge form Platonism or from the gnostic gospels? Or some other one I am unaware of?

Yes, that one, not the one from that Aeon Flux episode, though the one from Aeon Flux is much cooler.

Just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't heard of it.

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Posted 4/13/08 , edited 4/18/08

digs wrote:

so you are saying there is a being that made God? And in order to judge omniscience we must be omniscient. Kinda like trying to grade a paper but not knowing any of the answers and givinig the paper a 0 because "the person who wrote it does not have the same thinking pattern as me, my thinking pattern is flawed, but in my opinion I am superior and therefore may make an extrapolated conclusion based on no data." you even state that "god is beyond our understanding." Why does God have to perceive solely on a human level? Why can't God, in your opinion, understand humans and the universe?
He can but that would not stop another more powerful being from manipulating his supernatural senses. What could?



Technically in order to be omniscient, should God have to understand humans and everything else? Someone can make a creation (for example, a computer) if they created it, than they know everything there is to know about it (the thought, compiled, and completely understand why and how it works) does this mean that their logic is limited to that creation? No it doesn't. God is omniscient, and as stated before, in order for that to be true, God must understand humans in full too (after all God did create us) and just because God created humanity, does not mean that God's logic and knowledge is limited to that of humans.

I did not say it was; my point is that god can never know that another more powerful god exists that created him, and then planted his memories. A being which created god could easily alter his perceptions regardless of how much better they were than that of humans.



If what you say is true (proposing there may be a being that created god and the rest of us) then technically that being is god, and the thing you state as "a god" is a deity that was manipulated by god. So that being would be omniscient. But why does this even fall into place? Stating that God is not omniscient because there a higher being above God is somewhat irrelevant. I understand that you are saying God wouldn't be omniscient if he was created by a greater deity. But we are arguing the omniscience of God as if God is the supreme being (which I believe God is) I am stating that God is the supreme being of which no other can surpass.

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