First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
God Can Not Know Everything
Scientist Moderator
digs 
48142 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Offline
Posted 4/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
God is far superior. God is not mortal so time is irrelevant to Him. God never had a beginning, He always was. In our universe everything has had a beginning, so it seems illogical to us. However, since everything material has a beginning, there was nothing material before it. Meaning it had to be created, and according to science, matter can neither be created or destroyed. Humans should stop trying to understand God in full. God is infinitely superior to us and we cannot understand even a fraction.
8000 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
76 / M / california
Offline
Posted 4/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

Nanban wrote:


krnsoldierofGod wrote:


Nanban wrote:


krnsoldierofGod wrote:


magnus102 wrote:

It has occurred to me that it is logically impossible for god to be omniscient. The reason? God must perceive things in some way. Although this way may be totally unlike that of humans he must or else he understand snothing about the universe or reality. The reason he can not know all is that the possibility exists that another being who is more powerful created him, and then put the memories of existing for eternity in his mind. Perception can not really prove anything, as perceptions can be mistaken and manipulated by others. The only thing we can be sure of is our own existence, which we confirm by our thoughts. We can not really be sure of anything else, and since god can not eliminate the possibility above, he is not omniscient, and indeed omniscience is a logical impossibility.


Let me clarify my argument:
1. Perception gives rise to our thoughts.
2. It is only though perception we understand any sort of reality.
3. Our perception may be flawed, and for all we truly know we were created 5 seconds ago with the memory of the rest of our lives put into our heads by some super powerful being.
4.Since god can never truly know anything outside perceptions (a logical impossibility) there is no way for god to know that there was not a creator creator who has manipulated his perceptions.
5. Since omniscience requires you to know everything no being can be so as they can not eliminate the possibility of their perceptions being manipulated.b]


God was never created. He existed before the beginning of time. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Get that thought into your head and you'll see it disproves your logic




Prove it, or did someone just tell you that, like some crazy might tell you about the fairies at the bottom of his garden.


o geez. The arguments of the existence of God always goes around and around. Do you really awnt to start something like that



Not really, it's a waste of breath, faith is blind and I can see.

Anyway I know you don't have any proof (no, the voices in peoples heads are not necessarily god's)

It's just that generally, in any debate its always useful to stick to the facts and argue in a clear rational manner. Alphas, Omegas etc thats all just crazy talk, its as meaningful as me entering a debate with the words; 'Zeus the Lord of Earth is Alpha and Omega!'




ok scince I have to go soon to study for my history test tomorrow on the Cold War, I'll just tell you 5 simple reasons why I believe, and don't expect a reply any time soon.

1. Even Einstein said that the universe works together and is aligned so perfectly that it is almost certain there HAS to be SOME type of God. (did you know that if the earth was one degree closer, or one degree farther away from the sun, the earth would be either too hot or too cold for humans to suvive)

2. 3/4 doctors believe that there is a God because they have seen miraculous healings that shouldn't be happening. (People with so much sickness that they would die in the next hour, but they get up perfectly healed, or children in Africa suddenly be healed from their AIDS)

3. All the prophets in the old testament, almost all of them never met eachother, never had discussions with eachother, hell they were even living in different time periods. Yet every single one of their encounter with God is almost always the same. Coincidence? You decide.

4. There are some prophecies in the BIble that have come true. In the old testament it mentions some things like the fall of newborn babies when Christ comes. Read open your bible, and you see that king Herod slaughtered babies in an attempt to kill Jesus. There are also many prophecies in the book of Revelations that predicted many of the topics you learn in history today, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, and many others. However, this can be debatable because the book of Revelations is one of the hardest books of the Bible to fully understand because of its many symbolisms and its vagueness. But you have to understand, this book with the point of view of a man that lived 2000 years ago. No one can really tell for sure what John means when he mentions "dragons". Can they be fighter jet planes? hellicopters? IBM's? (just to tell you an IBM is an intercontinental ballistic missile, or basically a nuke developed during WWII and the Cold War)

5. And lastly I'll share with you one of MY personal reasons for believing in God although you may not believe it. I have seen many miracles that has happened in my church, some of them so incredible they are even greater than the miracles Jesus has done (Jesus said that there will be even greater works of miracles after his death). And no, my church does not "advertise" miracles like oh come to our church we have done 17 miracles so far or anything like that. YOU may think its all an act paid for by actors (not like some of the miracles that happened could actually be performed even by the best actor), but one of those miracles happened to one of my best friends and I am pretty damn sure what happened to him was NOT an act. But you think what you want to believe.
10131 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / United States
Offline
Posted 4/15/08 , edited 4/18/08
Well let me first start off by saying that I am a Christian. People in this thread all seem to have different opinions and some believe in God and some don't, it's a reality that many Christians, for that matter, have come to accept. Of course not everyone wants things or ideas "forced" upon them because that often makes them uncomfortable and some may perceive it as rude as well. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone needs to find their OWN answer, whether that's through life experiences or a religion. No matter how much someone may deny it they seek the "truth" or meaning of life. We all might wonder sometimes why something happens the way it does, and for what reason we are on this planet for. I know for a fact that I am still trying to figure that out for myself. And like I said some of you may not agree with what I am saying and that is fine, but hopefully we can do a better job of respecting people's beliefs and opinions.
2050 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / F / Seattle
Offline
Posted 4/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

the_glob wrote:


livnique wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


livnique wrote:


_I-I_OIFAILED wrote:


livnique wrote:

God is not human, far greater than anything a human mind can conceive, to think you can put logic into what he/she is, as a human, is foolish


you know this because.....??? I for one agree with Magnus even if i don't believe in a god and, god is just a fictional person that people made up because they didn't have an answer to a question.


and how do you know he is not all-knowing

I logically showed he can not be.


should i repeat my first post?


If he's all knowing, he's not a kind and loving being is he, since he knew that eve would take the apple and adam would eat it and that their children would engage in incest



Well, the glob, It's God's plan for human to learn, for human to be responsible from what he/she's doing, what the world would be if there is no mistake? If there is no sin? You will never ever be a better person than you are now. So, what's the point of life then?

I think God is kind enough by giving us the freedom to choose or free will.
101 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/15/08 , edited 4/18/08

sen_dy wrote:


the_glob wrote:


livnique wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


livnique wrote:


_I-I_OIFAILED wrote:


livnique wrote:

God is not human, far greater than anything a human mind can conceive, to think you can put logic into what he/she is, as a human, is foolish


you know this because.....??? I for one agree with Magnus even if i don't believe in a god and, god is just a fictional person that people made up because they didn't have an answer to a question.


and how do you know he is not all-knowing

I logically showed he can not be.


should i repeat my first post?


If he's all knowing, he's not a kind and loving being is he, since he knew that eve would take the apple and adam would eat it and that their children would engage in incest



Well, the glob, It's God's plan for human to learn, for human to be responsible from what he/she's doing, what the world would be if there is no mistake? If there is no sin? You will never ever be a better person than you are now. So, what's the point of life then?


Why can't he just implant us with that knowledge from birth? He already knows which mistakes we will make. Considering he's all-knowing. You think he wanted Hitler to learn from his mistakes to? After all god knew perfectly well what Hitler was going to do once god created him. He knew Hitler was going to be the main cause of the death of 6 million jews. Still God created him and did nothing to stop him. So either god is anti semitic asshole, he doesn't care or he doesn't excist. Pick one.

2050 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / F / Seattle
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

PedroAlvarado wrote:


sen_dy wrote:


the_glob wrote:


livnique wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


livnique wrote:


_I-I_OIFAILED wrote:


livnique wrote:

God is not human, far greater than anything a human mind can conceive, to think you can put logic into what he/she is, as a human, is foolish


you know this because.....??? I for one agree with Magnus even if i don't believe in a god and, god is just a fictional person that people made up because they didn't have an answer to a question.


and how do you know he is not all-knowing

I logically showed he can not be.


should i repeat my first post?


If he's all knowing, he's not a kind and loving being is he, since he knew that eve would take the apple and adam would eat it and that their children would engage in incest



Well, the glob, It's God's plan for human to learn, for human to be responsible from what he/she's doing, what the world would be if there is no mistake? If there is no sin? You will never ever be a better person than you are now. So, what's the point of life then?


Why can't he just implant us with that knowledge from birth? He already knows which mistakes we will make. Considering he's all-knowing. You think he wanted Hitler to learn from his mistakes to? After all god knew perfectly well what Hitler was going to do once god created him. He knew Hitler was going to be the main cause of the death of 6 million jews. Still God created him and did nothing to stop him. So either god is anti semitic asshole, he doesn't care or he doesn't excist. Pick one.



Do you know that you can learn from others? I learned from what he did, that racism is not a good thing. What the world would be if there's no evil? Peace? What do you learn from the peace itself? nothing.
1231 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

sen_dy wrote:


the_glob wrote:

If he's all knowing, he's not a kind and loving being is he, since he knew that eve would take the apple and adam would eat it and that their children would engage in incest



Well, the glob, It's God's plan for human to learn, for human to be responsible from what he/she's doing, what the world would be if there is no mistake? If there is no sin? You will never ever be a better person than you are now. So, what's the point of life then?

I think God is kind enough by giving us the freedom to choose or free will.


What is there to learn? If god is all knowing, he would have known what we would choose.

From what you're saying, god wants us to sin. Sounds strange? But he already knew who would sin, where the sin would occur, how the sin would happen, what the sin entails. Same for mistakes. Any mistake a person made would be known well beforehand by god.

Now this would include the following
i) Suicide
ii) Abortion
iii) Murder/Manslaughter
iv) Rape
v) Robbery/Kidnapping/Thieft
vi) Homosexuality

Now since god already knew the person would commit those acts well before the person was even born, it would seem like god wants people to do such things. Remembering that christians should follow the will of god, we should then kill, rape, pillage at will.
144 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
76 / Planet Earth
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08




ok scince I have to go soon to study for my history test tomorrow on the Cold War, I'll just tell you 5 simple reasons why I believe, and don't expect a reply any time soon.

1. Even Einstein said that the universe works together and is aligned so perfectly that it is almost certain there HAS to be SOME type of God. (did you know that if the earth was one degree closer, or one degree farther away from the sun, the earth would be either too hot or too cold for humans to suvive)

2. 3/4 doctors believe that there is a God because they have seen miraculous healings that shouldn't be happening. (People with so much sickness that they would die in the next hour, but they get up perfectly healed, or children in Africa suddenly be healed from their AIDS)

3. All the prophets in the old testament, almost all of them never met eachother, never had discussions with eachother, hell they were even living in different time periods. Yet every single one of their encounter with God is almost always the same. Coincidence? You decide.

4. There are some prophecies in the BIble that have come true. In the old testament it mentions some things like the fall of newborn babies when Christ comes. Read open your bible, and you see that king Herod slaughtered babies in an attempt to kill Jesus. There are also many prophecies in the book of Revelations that predicted many of the topics you learn in history today, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, and many others. However, this can be debatable because the book of Revelations is one of the hardest books of the Bible to fully understand because of its many symbolisms and its vagueness. But you have to understand, this book with the point of view of a man that lived 2000 years ago. No one can really tell for sure what John means when he mentions "dragons". Can they be fighter jet planes? hellicopters? IBM's? (just to tell you an IBM is an intercontinental ballistic missile, or basically a nuke developed during WWII and the Cold War)

5. And lastly I'll share with you one of MY personal reasons for believing in God although you may not believe it. I have seen many miracles that has happened in my church, some of them so incredible they are even greater than the miracles Jesus has done (Jesus said that there will be even greater works of miracles after his death). And no, my church does not "advertise" miracles like oh come to our church we have done 17 miracles so far or anything like that. YOU may think its all an act paid for by actors (not like some of the miracles that happened could actually be performed even by the best actor), but one of those miracles happened to one of my best friends and I am pretty damn sure what happened to him was NOT an act. But you think what you want to believe.




1. Einstein also said god doesn't play dice, he was wrong. As for what you say about our proximity to the sun, so what? That fact does not prove anything about god, all it does is explain why our planet wasn't frozen or incinerated. Thats just probability, nothing amazing about that.

2. I reject your doctors statistic, perhaps if you can provide a reliable source? but I doubt you can, there are lots of doctors in the world.

3. The bible is not a reliable source of information, It may have been written by one man, who knows, its pointless to speculate. The bible also mentions Eve being created from Adams rib, and the world being made in seven days, if I remember correctly. However we know both claims are wrong.

4. I reject the idea that the bible predicts the future, just because they mention dragons in a book, it hardly follows that they were talking about a fighter jet.

5. Ah so you have experienced miracles? I doubt it. If you want to believe something enough you will believe anything.. but maybe in your particular church, your priest, vicar, whatever, can perform miracles as though he were some kind of deity, maybe you should worship him? Anyway you are entering Theological hot water, there are many Christians who reject the idea of miracles, arguing that God does not intervene. Maybe if you can provide real proof. Anyway I got forced to go to church as a child and I didn't see any miracles, maybe god only helps people in your particular 'church'.

Good luck with your history test.




144 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
76 / Planet Earth
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

sen_dy wrote:


PedroAlvarado wrote:


sen_dy wrote:


the_glob wrote:


livnique wrote:


magnus102 wrote:


livnique wrote:


_I-I_OIFAILED wrote:


livnique wrote:

God is not human, far greater than anything a human mind can conceive, to think you can put logic into what he/she is, as a human, is foolish


you know this because.....??? I for one agree with Magnus even if i don't believe in a god and, god is just a fictional person that people made up because they didn't have an answer to a question.


and how do you know he is not all-knowing

I logically showed he can not be.


should i repeat my first post?


If he's all knowing, he's not a kind and loving being is he, since he knew that eve would take the apple and adam would eat it and that their children would engage in incest



Well, the glob, It's God's plan for human to learn, for human to be responsible from what he/she's doing, what the world would be if there is no mistake? If there is no sin? You will never ever be a better person than you are now. So, what's the point of life then?


Why can't he just implant us with that knowledge from birth? He already knows which mistakes we will make. Considering he's all-knowing. You think he wanted Hitler to learn from his mistakes to? After all god knew perfectly well what Hitler was going to do once god created him. He knew Hitler was going to be the main cause of the death of 6 million jews. Still God created him and did nothing to stop him. So either god is anti semitic asshole, he doesn't care or he doesn't excist. Pick one.



Do you know that you can learn from others? I learned from what he did, that racism is not a good thing. What the world would be if there's no evil? Peace? What do you learn from the peace itself? nothing.


Ah well thats worth 6 million lives! blimey!
101 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08





Do you know that you can learn from others? I learned from what he did, that racism is not a good thing. What the world would be if there's no evil? Peace? What do you learn from the peace itself? nothing.


Great you learned racism is bad. You think that was the point of those 6 million jews being murdered? Historic event are there to teach us? If so were darn stubborn learners.
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
wtf?!!!! if there's god, why dnt he show his face?
4688 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / Palm Beach, Florida
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

It has occurred to me that it is logically impossible for god to be omniscient. The reason? God must perceive things in some way. Although this way may be totally unlike that of humans he must or else he understand snothing about the universe or reality. The reason he can not know all is that the possibility exists that another being who is more powerful created him, and then put the memories of existing for eternity in his mind. Perception can not really prove anything, as perceptions can be mistaken and manipulated by others. The only thing we can be sure of is our own existence, which we confirm by our thoughts. We can not really be sure of anything else (Whoa, isn't that a little contradictory towards you saying "It has occurred to me that it is logically impossible for god to be omniscient." technically according to you, you can't be sure of that.), and since god can not eliminate the possibility above, he is not omniscient, and indeed omniscience is a logical impossibility. same case here


Let me clarify my argument:
1. Perception gives rise to our thoughts.
2. It is only though perception we understand any sort of reality.
3. Our perception may be flawed, and for all we truly know we were created 5 seconds ago with the memory of the rest of our lives put into our heads by some super powerful being.
4.Since god can never truly know anything outside perceptions (a logical impossibility) there is no way for god to know that there was not a creator creator who has manipulated his perceptions.
5. Since omniscience requires you to know everything no being can be so as they can not eliminate the possibility of their perceptions being manipulated.b]


I find it ironic that the entire first post is simply your perception on the matter using your perception of logic, you did say perception may be flawed, so who is to say that your perception on the matter is flawed. This logic of yours humans can perceive as logical, but it's simply their perception. In conclusion, no offense but you haven't brought the world any closer to proving there is or isn't a higher being/s, this matter is simply unprovable, even religious people simply believe [and accept as a truth within themselves] there to be a higher being/s, that can't truly prove their is or isn't, no one can.

“Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe” (Jn. 20:29)
456 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 4/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
Did God create man or did man create God..... I have to say that religion brought more bad things than good.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.