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A Quick Question
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Posted 4/22/08
Let me just say this:
I read this passage in a book for English literature once (some people may recognise it):

"Well, from what you all say, it shows that if you have natural gumption enough, with college, you can learn in four years what it would take you your entire life to learn, without college."
"Can you please define what 'gumption' is?"
"No, I won't, young lady. People who don't have natural gumption will never know what it is, and people who do have gumption will always know what it is. So there is no use in explaining it."


Well, that's sort of the way I think about Christianity. Faith is not something that can be proved, it's something that must be believed. If you don't believe, you will never understand it, and if you do believe, you will understand it.

Some people will say, "Well, then, how do people get converted?" My answer is: They put their faith in Jesus, and trusted him to help them believe. The source of faith, and therefore the source of belief is in Jesus, and so if you really want to understand, go to him and seek faith and understanding instead of asking us mere mortals to explain to you what is not explainable.
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Posted 4/23/08
An Atheist Professor of Philosophy speaks to his Class on the Problem Science has with GOD, The ALMIGHTY.
He asks one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . .

Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.
Most of us would attempt to Help Others who are ill.
But GOD didn't.
How is this GOD Good then ? Hmm ?

( Student is silent )

Professor : You can't answer, can you ?
Let's start again, Young Fella.
Is GOD Good ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . . . GOD . . .
Professor : That's right.
Tell me son, is there evil in this World ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ?
And GOD did make Everything. Correct ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ?

( Student does not answer )

Professor : Is there Sickness ? Immorality ? Hatred ? Ugliness ?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?

( Student has no answer )

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.
Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD ?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD ?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD ?
Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter ?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist.
What do you say to that, son ?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
Professor : Yes. Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.

( The Lecture Theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events )

Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat,
a Little Heat or No Heat.
But we don't have anything called Cold.
We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as Cold.
Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat.
We cannot Measure Cold.
Heat is Energy.
Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.

( There is Pin - Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )

Student : What about Darkness, Professor ? Is there such a thing as Darkness ?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness ?
Student : You're wrong again, sir.
Darkness is the Absence of Something.
You can have Low Light, Normal Light , Bright Light, Flashing Light . . .
But if you have No Light Constantly, you have Nothing and it's called Darkness, isn't it ?
In reality, Darkness isn't.
If it is, were you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you ?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is Flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how ?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality.
You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD.
You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought.
It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that
Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing.
Death is Not the Opposite of Life : just the Absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor, do you Teach your Students that they Evolved from a Monkey ?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir ?

( The Professor shakes his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument is going )

Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this Process is an On - Going Endeavor,
are you not Teaching your Opinion, sir ?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher ?

( The Class is in Uproar )

Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever Seen the Professor's Brain ?

( The Class breaks out into Laughter )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever Heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, Touched or Smelt it ? . . .
No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that
you have No Brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir ?

( The Room is Silent. The Professor stares at the Student, his face unfathomable )

Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . .
the Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Moving & Alive.
It turned out later that the student is Albert Einsten

just found it in one of my friends blog entry...
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Posted 4/23/08

earlbluestar11 wrote:

An Atheist Professor of Philosophy speaks to his Class on the Problem Science has with GOD, The ALMIGHTY.
He asks one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . .

Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.
Most of us would attempt to Help Others who are ill.
But GOD didn't.
How is this GOD Good then ? Hmm ?

( Student is silent )

Professor : You can't answer, can you ?
Let's start again, Young Fella.
Is GOD Good ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . . . GOD . . .
Professor : That's right.
Tell me son, is there evil in this World ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ?
And GOD did make Everything. Correct ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ?

( Student does not answer )

Professor : Is there Sickness ? Immorality ? Hatred ? Ugliness ?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?

( Student has no answer )

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.
Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD ?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD ?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD ?
Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter ?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist.
What do you say to that, son ?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
Professor : Yes. Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.

( The Lecture Theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events )

Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat,
a Little Heat or No Heat.
But we don't have anything called Cold.
We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as Cold.
Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat.
We cannot Measure Cold.
Heat is Energy.
Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.

( There is Pin - Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )

Student : What about Darkness, Professor ? Is there such a thing as Darkness ?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness ?
Student : You're wrong again, sir.
Darkness is the Absence of Something.
You can have Low Light, Normal Light , Bright Light, Flashing Light . . .
But if you have No Light Constantly, you have Nothing and it's called Darkness, isn't it ?
In reality, Darkness isn't.
If it is, were you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you ?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is Flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how ?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality.
You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD.
You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought.
It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that
Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing.
Death is Not the Opposite of Life : just the Absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor, do you Teach your Students that they Evolved from a Monkey ?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir ?

( The Professor shakes his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument is going )

Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this Process is an On - Going Endeavor,
are you not Teaching your Opinion, sir ?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher ?

( The Class is in Uproar )

Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever Seen the Professor's Brain ?

( The Class breaks out into Laughter )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever Heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, Touched or Smelt it ? . . .
No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that
you have No Brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir ?

( The Room is Silent. The Professor stares at the Student, his face unfathomable )

Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . .
the Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Moving & Alive.
It turned out later that the student is Albert Einsten

just found it in one of my friends blog entry...

Other humans have brains, and we have seen those them. All humans we have examined have had brains (all ones that lived psat birth), and it is a safe assumption that the prof has one as well, just like we think that gravity will not stop in 5 minutes. There is no evidence for a being such as god, so there is really no comparsion to be made between the two.

Einstein believed in the pan theistic Spinoza's God, which most people do not think of as a god at all.


Albert Einstein: It is a Lie that I Believe in a Personal God
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

- Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman

Albert Einstein: From a Jesuit Viewpoint, I am an Atheist
I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. - Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism; quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2



Albert Einstein: Human Fantasy Created Gods
During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world.

- Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught


Albert Einstein: Skepticism & Freethought Proceeded from Seeing Falsehood of Bible
Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. Mistrust of every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude toward the convictions that were alive in any specific social environment - an attitude that has never again left me, even though, later on, it has been tempered by a better insight into the causal connections. - Albert Einstein, Autobiographical Notes, edited by Paul Arthur



Evidence for evolution has been seen in many places. One example is the moths in England whom we watched adapt to the changing color of trees in the industrial revolution.
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Posted 4/23/08

suhyeon wrote:

Let me just say this:
I read this passage in a book for English literature once (some people may recognise it):

"Well, from what you all say, it shows that if you have natural gumption enough, with college, you can learn in four years what it would take you your entire life to learn, without college."
"Can you please define what 'gumption' is?"
"No, I won't, young lady. People who don't have natural gumption will never know what it is, and people who do have gumption will always know what it is. So there is no use in explaining it."


Well, that's sort of the way I think about Christianity. Faith is not something that can be proved, it's something that must be believed. If you don't believe, you will never understand it, and if you do believe, you will understand it.

Some people will say, "Well, then, how do people get converted?" My answer is: They put their faith in Jesus, and trusted him to help them believe. The source of faith, and therefore the source of belief is in Jesus, and so if you really want to understand, go to him and seek faith and understanding instead of asking us mere mortals to explain to you what is not explainable.


my point is not albert einstein...it was just an example for you...same as suhyeon...believing in a God you can't see....just like she said....faith is not something that can be proven...
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Posted 4/23/08
seriously guys don't try too hard ^_^ he'll change his mind if he really wants to...but it probably won't happen while he's looking for a good argument...
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Posted 4/24/08

AburaiRukia wrote:

seriously guys don't try too hard ^_^ he'll change his mind if he really wants to...but it probably won't happen while he's looking for a good argument...


So you can change your mind to think the moon is made of purple pasta? I find your god to be as equally absurd. You seem to think people can magically make themselves believe something.
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YouAreDumb wrote:

So you can change your mind to think the moon is made of purple pasta? I find your god to be as equally absurd. You seem to think people can magically make themselves believe something.


Actually, you can change your mind to believe anything. It's all a matter of whether you actaully believe it or not. In order for science to come as far as it has, people have had to believe things that no one else thought was possible.
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Posted 4/24/08

maximumrideaddict wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:

So you can change your mind to think the moon is made of purple pasta? I find your god to be as equally absurd. You seem to think people can magically make themselves believe something.


Actually, you can change your mind to believe anything. It's all a matter of whether you actaully believe it or not. In order for science to come as far as it has, people have had to believe things that no one else thought was possible.

No I can not. Some people can that is true. In order for science to advance people had to evaluate evidence. They did not simply change their mind-they had logical reasons to do so, that is evidence told them what was what. Show me evidence for god, and I will do the same.
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Posted 4/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


maximumrideaddict wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:

So you can change your mind to think the moon is made of purple pasta? I find your god to be as equally absurd. You seem to think people can magically make themselves believe something.


Actually, you can change your mind to believe anything. It's all a matter of whether you actaully believe it or not. In order for science to come as far as it has, people have had to believe things that no one else thought was possible.

No I can not. Some people can that is true. In order for science to advance people had to evaluate evidence. They did not simply change their mind-they had logical reasons to do so, that is evidence told them what was what. Show me evidence for god, and I will do the same.


Sorry Youaredumb I am locking this thread down. All you are looking for is a argument. Not really a answer to your questions. We in good faith have tried to answer you. Only to get statments like "So you can change your mind to think the moon is made of purple pasta? I find your god to be as equally absurd. You seem to think people can magically make themselves believe something" Which are just attacts on us. strike one.
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