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Do "nice guys/girls" really finish last?
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28 / F / Michigan, USA
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Posted 1/18/07
This has always been an interesting topic to me. The "nice guy/girl" dilemma. Each side constantly complaining that the opposite is never interested in them despite there high level of emotional support and other things that would prove them to be a great boyfriend/girlfriend. The real question is though, whose fault is it really?

I think the truth is, it's the nice guy/girl's fault. It's not that they're seemingly incapable of getting a date. They're just unwilling to do much about it. They're either looking for the wrong people, the "hot" ones, because the not-so-good looking person over there couldn't possibly be worth dating, or they're too shy/insecure to actually ask anyone out.

Here are some takes on the subject that I really like. All of them are in reference to "nice guys", but I think they work both ways. If you were to replace "guy" with "girl" it'd be entirely true as well. Tell me what you think:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp02142004.shtml
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/nice2.shtml
http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sensitiveguy/sensitiveguy2.gif
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27 / M / Chicago, USA
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Posted 1/18/07
Nice guys or girls seem to have always finished last in any real-life situation I can remember. Usually its his or her fault, but occasionally its the whole friend-zoned thing. Nevertheless, its the risk he or she takes and they do it willingly. Anyone who studied Machiavelli knows this to be truth too.
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34 / M / 中国
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Posted 1/18/07
I've always been the nice guy who rarely received any attention/recognition from the opposite sex, so once when a new girl showed up to my old shop I tried an experiment. She was a fairly attractive normal girl. So instead of being the nice guy I usually am, I was obscenely rude and mean to her without cause. Making jokes at her expense, speaking poorly of her while she was there, just being genuinley nasty.

You know what happened? She started to show interest in me. I'm not saying she was crawling all over me, but she was a hell of a lot more interested in than the average girl my age was. Go out of her way to talk to me, smile when I came in the room, casual flirting, etc. No I wasn't "teasing" her, I was being really damned rude to her all the time. Now this was in the military, so there was no shortage of male worship for her anywhere she went, so it's not like she was out of options. I was so disgusted by the outcome of my experiment that I didn't pursue her at all (she'd have probably ditched me once I started being nice to her anyways).

In the end, I think it's a confidence thing. Absolute assholes reak of confidence. It's incredibly ill-founded, but it's like friggin aphrodesiac. It's not that nice guys aren't confident, it's we're alot more humble and it doesn't come across as strongly.

The irony is now in my mid-twenties all those girls who ignored me in high school, and post-high school are now reaping their just rewards. That "wonderful" guy knocked them up and left. Suddenly all of us baggage free nice guys start looking pretty good. We have no debt, our life is on track, and we're the mr. right they've "realized" they've always wanted. And alot of us do end up raising other guy's kids. I'd sooner piss glass myself. What? I'm suddenly good enough now? But not then? Clean up your own goddamn mess.

Yeah I'm bitter, but this quite a few years of experience speaking. It's not like I'm terribly picky either - as I've always said, "beggars can't be choosers." I'm not saying I think all girls are like this, but it's a pretty fair generalization based on what I've seen. I've had friends get lucky and find a winner, so I'll just keep hoping I'll hit the lottery with someone I meet.
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F / Pluto
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Posted 1/18/07
Yes, it's sad that nice guys/girls usually end up finishing last. Crossy is right, usually this person will know what they're getting themselves into, but will do their good deed no matter the consequence. In "No Good Deed" from Wicked the musical, it says "no good deed goes unpunished" hence, nice guys (girls) finish last.
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35 / F / Utah
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Posted 1/18/07
Are we talking about the nice people that has hobbies, fun to be with, nice to you, nice to everyone, can be inspired? Or are we talking about the nice people that try too hard, falsely being nice for your attention.

If you love by infatuation for good looks alone then there might be problems when you marry that person, and that person doesn't take care of the kids. Their good looks can decrease over time if they don't look for themselves and/or people

If you love by infatuation for good personality then you can see that they can take care themselves, is helpful to others, and could be the person you could marry at the end instead of the other person.
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27 / M / Chicago, USA
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Posted 1/18/07
To Horsielvr: That was a damn good musical. I loved that ^_^

To Whisper/Everyone: We're talking about the first kind... well at least I was. But to your good looks and good personality thing. In my opinion for a marriage you need both, more personality though. If you're not physically attracted to the person then the spark doesn't happen, you just end up being good friends (at least thats what I've experienced/seen). However, if you're going off of lust, then you realize its a crappy relationship and leave it. Unfortunately though, it seems like the "Good looking" people seem to not be nice, because they try to get by with their looks. And the "average looking" or below people usually have a good personality and end up finishing last because you need the spark. Then again, thats only a stereotype, but it seems to hold true from situations I've seen.
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26 / F / Mass
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Posted 1/18/07
I've always been attracted to the nice guys. My ex, was one of the stereotypical nice guys. The story is though, that he cheated on me, and broke my heart in many ways. I think it really matters whether or not people want to get to know others for who they are, or they base it on looks, then personality. And as said before, by azrael, the assholes just ooze confidence. I don't want to re-write what he wrote. x_x
But... yeah.
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Posted 1/18/07
I'm a nice guy but I don't finish last? I don't think so. It really depends if you let them walk all over you, or something like that I guess.

I'll read the links later.

I think its good to treat everyone nicely.
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27 / M / Chicago, USA
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Posted 1/18/07

drunkonshadowsxx wrote:

I've always been attracted to the nice guys. My ex, was one of the stereotypical nice guys. The story is though, that he cheated on me, and broke my heart in many ways. I think it really matters whether or not people want to get to know others for who they are, or they base it on looks, then personality. And as said before, by azrael, the assholes just ooze confidence. I don't want to re-write what he wrote. x_x
But... yeah. :)


I wouldn't really define that as nice... or anything close to it, and if he's your ex he didn't really finish last... *shrugs* I just tend to say whats on my mind. ^_^

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26 / F / Mass
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Posted 1/18/07

Crossy wrote:


drunkonshadowsxx wrote:

I've always been attracted to the nice guys. My ex, was one of the stereotypical nice guys. The story is though, that he cheated on me, and broke my heart in many ways. I think it really matters whether or not people want to get to know others for who they are, or they base it on looks, then personality. And as said before, by azrael, the assholes just ooze confidence. I don't want to re-write what he wrote. x_x
But... yeah. :)


I wouldn't really define that as nice... or anything close to it, and if he's your ex he didn't really finish last... *shrugs* I just tend to say whats on my mind. ^_^



I know. But he was the stereotypical "nice guy". He was a nerd, and alot of girls "just wanted to be friends" when it came to him. But he had a whole diffrent side. x_x
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28 / F / NY
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Posted 1/18/07
do nice guys finish last? maybe if you take in the rest of the factor, honest I think they do sort in high school and maybe in college too. However I think they get a better chance in their mid 20's, by that time, most girls would have past the crushes and are ready to settle down
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28 / F / Michigan, USA
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Posted 1/18/07
To azrael: I agree with the confidence thing. Let's be honest, most (not all mind you) but most teenagers are fairly insecure. I think that's why they're attracted to someone who has confidence, even to the point of overconfidence. I wouldn't base your entire opinion on high school relationships though. The maturity may or may not be there.
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Posted 1/18/07

azrael910 wrote:

I've always been the nice guy who rarely received any attention/recognition from the opposite sex, so once when a new girl showed up to my old shop I tried an experiment. She was a fairly attractive normal girl. So instead of being the nice guy I usually am, I was obscenely rude and mean to her without cause. Making jokes at her expense, speaking poorly of her while she was there, just being genuinley nasty.

You know what happened? She started to show interest in me. I'm not saying she was crawling all over me, but she was a hell of a lot more interested in than the average girl my age was. Go out of her way to talk to me, smile when I came in the room, casual flirting, etc. No I wasn't "teasing" her, I was being really damned rude to her all the time. Now this was in the military, so there was no shortage of male worship for her anywhere she went, so it's not like she was out of options. I was so disgusted by the outcome of my experiment that I didn't pursue her at all (she'd have probably ditched me once I started being nice to her anyways).

In the end, I think it's a confidence thing. Absolute assholes reak of confidence. It's incredibly ill-founded, but it's like friggin aphrodesiac. It's not that nice guys aren't confident, it's we're alot more humble and it doesn't come across as strongly.

The irony is now in my mid-twenties all those girls who ignored me in high school, and post-high school are now reaping their just rewards. That "wonderful" guy knocked them up and left. Suddenly all of us baggage free nice guys start looking pretty good. We have no debt, our life is on track, and we're the mr. right they've "realized" they've always wanted. And alot of us do end up raising other guy's kids. I'd sooner piss glass myself. What? I'm suddenly good enough now? But not then? Clean up your own goddamn mess.

Yeah I'm bitter, but this quite a few years of experience speaking. It's not like I'm terribly picky either - as I've always said, "beggars can't be choosers." I'm not saying I think all girls are like this, but it's a pretty fair generalization based on what I've seen. I've had friends get lucky and find a winner, so I'll just keep hoping I'll hit the lottery with someone I meet.


Yep, I've done the same experiment thing twice; same results, same disgust. And even though is a bit generalized, you hit many of the points I was about to post.
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29 / M / US
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Posted 1/18/07
Well, this has always been a uninteresting topic to me.

I'm having some trouble pinning down the issue here...

I guess ill go with this link in that its not because they are nice that they "finish last" (whatever that means). Heck, nice is a nice thing! http://www.pick-up-woman.com/nice-guys-finish-last.shtml

According to that article here are the main mistakes "nice guys" make:
1. Being too needy
2. Unrealistic Expectations/Premeditated Resentments
3. Idolizing a woman
4. Living for everyone else but himself and becoming dull
5. Making his happiness and existence too dependent on his relationships with others
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28 / F / Michigan, USA
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Posted 1/18/07
Question to Mauz and Azrael, what kind of things did you say to them? Was it teasing or all out rudeness? Examples?
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