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Yes, i bitch about Christians, due to some personal experience, not just the contradictions of the Good Book. Moving along to the meat of this post.

(You may want to stop here. It's long.)

Yesterday (April 19) one of my roommates asked if i wanted to go out and get a bite to eat. Due to my laundry day being tomorrow i threw on a shirt not thinking much about it and headed out to a "Taco Shop" to get some nachos. While i'm sitting there in this mexican dive of an eatery a gentleman roughly around 28 asks if he can sit and speak with me. I live in a relatively small town and for some reason people seem to know me since i attained the local high school and was in a lot of theater, so for me a random person saying, "Hey, Joliame how are you?" is a normal occurrence. I looked at my roommate, who's been a friend of mine since 2002 and knew me a little bit during high school, wondering if he knew this guy, but the look on his face told me he had no idea who this was.

I told the man sure he can have a seat. He introduced himself, I shook his hand gave my name and my roommates and gestured for him to have a seat. I jokingly asked if he planed to rob me. He laughed and said no, he just wanted to talk to me about something. I answered, sure what's up.

"What's with the shirt?" he said.

Both my roommate and I look at my chest to find the words "L. Ron Hubbard" in white with a red circle slashed across his name. Basically an anti-Hubbard attire. "Oh, this? It was a gag gift from a friend of mine. I'd prefer if it said Jack Thompson."

He asked who Jack Thompson was. I told him it was a video game thing.

He smiled then said, "I take it you're not a Scientologist?"

My roommate, who is not the most tact filled person on the planet shouts, "Are you kidding me? Hell, no. I'd rather be shit on by Oprah. Then have lemon juice mixed with shards of razor blades injected into my ass."

Moving along, I explained i threw on the shirt not really thinking about it, i just wanted to go out and get something to eat before i went to work.

He nodded and said, "So you care about eating so much you can't take three seconds to consider someone else feelings. You're totally irresponsible."

(Now mind you, I'm writing this verbatim. I'm not leaving anything out or adding anything.)

I looked at him for a second, weighted his comment. First, yes i'm a little over weight. You can see a picture of me on my profile here on CR, and two I'm totally an irresponsible person; even more so when i'm pissed. But i've been fat for most of my life, but i stopped caring about my weight years ago. After so many years worth of fat jokes somewhere along the way you start to tune it out.

I smiled, exchanged a look with my roommate, "Well, i'm wearing it, so i guess you're right."

"What are you afraid of?" He says.

"Excuse me?"

"Why are you so afraid of L. Ron Hubbard?"

"I'm not. At least i don't think i am. I've never really thought about it. I've never met him, i've read a few of his books; they were ok. Besides it's laundry day and it's the only clean shirt i have, it's the first time i've actually worn it." I said and shrugged.

"So what, you can't wear a dirty shirt? You already look like you don't take good care of yourself. What's a dirty shirt to you? Why are your afraid?" He said, his voice calm almost apologetic.

My roommate, who's almost on par with what you can call a brother shakes his head and says, "Look dude, it's a shirt. It's not like he's standing in front of your church with a sign yelling on how crazy and fucked up you guys are."

"What makes you think I'm a Scientologist?" He says.

"Are you kidding me? The only person who would be offended by a shirt would....You know what? I don't have to explain this to you," My roommate now clearly angry.

"Why not? All i'm asking is why Joliame here is afraid of Scientology."

"Because of shit like this, man," My roommate almost yelling. "We were having a meal, you sat down; a perfect stranger, out of left field and have the balls to start asking him strange questions."

"i don't think they're strange." He answers.

"Of course you don't, why am i not surprised by that."

"Jim (not my real roommates name) cut it out. He's just wondering," the entire time i'm trying my hardest not to fall into my anger and hurl my plate of nachos into this man's face. "Look, guy, I'm just wearing it. I understand it's offensive to some people-"

"It's offensive to everyone. You're promoting hate and fear."

"Well, you're most defiantly scary. But it's a t-shirt. A teeee-ssshhhhiiirrrrrrt. Yes, i will agree that it promotes hate and yes, i should take better care of myself, but sorry i'm not taking fashion tips from a guy who thinks i fear a dead man," I say.

"Why do you hid behind sarcasm? What are you're crimes Joliame?"

"Jesus Christ, dude, this has gone long enough, get the fuck up, eat your meal at your table and leave us the hell alone." Jim says.

"What are you're crimes, Joliame?" Repeats three more times.

"Five bucks." I say.

"Excuse me," he says.

"Five bucks and i will take off the shirt. I will finish my meal half naked for five bucks." I say. "You can have it."

"Is money the only thing you think about?"

"No different than your church. $50,000 donations are made on behalf of your church by various people everyday. What's five bucks to you. And yes, I'm broke half the time, so money is a big issue to me."

"And what will you do with the five bucks?"

"What the fuck does it matter?" yells Jim. By now all the other people inside are starting to take noticed of us.

"i plan to buy cigarettes, if it's all the same to you."

"Sorry but i will not give you the five bucks so you can slowly kill yourself."

"Talking to you is a slow death in itself, friend. Without the money the shirt stays on and you're fuck out of luck."

"I don't like to see hate being promoted so freely."

"Yeah, well calling a man fat in so many words is a promotion of hate if you ask me," Jim says. "I'm going to tell you to leave one more time. I like this restaurant but not enough to be kicked out for knocking you upside the head with my can of Mountain Dew."

"Jim, you're just egging him on. What do you want? An apology?" I say.

"You seem free to say that you wish for another's forgiveness, Joliame. What are you're crimes, what do you want to get off your chest?"

"Hey Martinez! Can we get some security here?" (not the owners name, Jim is making a racist joke).

Another man, the cook, comes out to see what's going on. "Is there a problem here?"

Jim answers, "Yeah, Spin-doctor the wonder Scientologist here is bothering us."

"He has a problem with my shirt and is wondering why i can't be more sensitive." I says. "Sorry for all the commotion. Jim pack it up, it's time to go."

We pay the bill and get up to leave. "Sorry if the shirt bothered you. But i think you could have handled it better."

"Yeah, you douche," Jim says.

Later that day i found out, the man was asked to leave as soon as Jim and I left. And was asked not to return to the restaurant.

But seriously, i have had my problems with Christians, but nothing like this has ever happened with any of them. I could not believe it, i mean, wow over a t-shirt? Fuckin' creepy.
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Posted 4/22/08 , edited 4/22/08
Well, in your defense I’ve been in a similar situation with scientologists. I’ll explain that at the end of all of this. Well, my point in bringing it up is that in my experience scientologists can be a bit socially zealous. However, so can Christians and even atheists. We all have things that offend us. Some people are simply less mature in how they deal with this than others.

In your defense, you were in the right. In his defense, however, we must realize that this guy is a part of a religion that’s subjected to a lot of attack. Scientologists have some…strange beliefs. For example, have you ever been sad? According to them sorrow and all negative emotions come from “floating alien souls” that worm into the body of a human being.

South Park did an episode so offensive about it that a member of the crew, who was a scientologists, quit. (Although, to be honest they didn’t really make fun of Scientologists. They literally just said exactly what scientologists believe, they just made a crazy cultist do it.)

So, try and be open minded toward him. People often act like that when they feel like social outcasts, or are embarrassed about their own beliefs. You did the right thing, and that’s cool. Just don’t hold a grudge. Although, attacking a stranger’s weight over a t-shirt is really messed up.

You are officially a better person than me. I’m not over-weight, but I am insecure about my looks, and if somebody I didn’t know just came up and called me ugly I’d probably knock them down a few pegs-or, at least try… O_O Anyway, here’s the story:

I cracked a joke about scientology and somebody got offended. Normally this doesn’t happen, everyone who knows me knows I joke about everything. For example:

One day Jesus is walking along and a small child comes up. “Jesus, how much do you love me?”

With a cordial and wide spread Grin, Jesus turns around and cants his head. “Son,” he says, reaching his arms out as if to embrace the child. “This much.” and dies.

I’m respectful around strangers but today I was only with friends. Little did I know that, on the other side of the boot-where I couldn’t see, there was some guy eases dropping. He came over with this twisted little grin and bawled fists. I expected he wanted a fight and immediately became defensive and challenging. One of my own errors is that, when I feel threatened, my nuts swell to three times their size so that they tangle and I can’t get them straightened for the life of me.

“What religion are you?”

“Christian…” I answer vaguely. I had intended to follow it up with, “We can go outside if you’ve got a problem,” but then how stupid would I look?

“What denomination?”

“Nondenominational, denominations are made by man, not God.”

“Like your stupid book?”

“Exactly like my stupid book.”

“So, tell me, what kind of ALL loving God just hurtles people into hell?”

“The kind that’s sick and tired of @ss-wipes like you. Look, buddy, what’s your problem?”

“What? You like to make fun of other people’s beliefs but when people return the favor you get all sad and defensive like a little Bi5^. Just because I’m a scientologist doesn’t mean I’m stupid.”

“Well, you’re sure proving that by harassing me.”

“Yeah, and your proving that Christians are great people, cursing at people in public.”

“I never said Christians are good people. Quite the contrary, most Christians need a hot rod shove up their back-side-which is about what I’m going to do to you.”

“So your gay?”

“What if I am?” (I’m not, but I have pretended to be to make a point in the past.)

“How can you worship a God that curses your entire race?” (Yeah…gay isn’t a race.)

“I dunno, probably about the same way you can worship a floating Alien that drops frozen aliens into Hawaiian volcanoes. (Scientologists really believe this.) You stupid ‘church’ is a bleeding cult-they’re making money of little twits like you.”

“My church doesn’t tell me I’m evil for the way I’m born.”

“No, I bet they don’t, why would a perfectly profitable organization risk a well paying and highly brainwashed customer?”

“It’s not a cult!”

“That’s a load, it’s what you call a client cult-an new and organized religious movement that offers a service in exchange for memberships. It’s a cult, you’re a cultist. Anyway, theta waves are medical proven to only be present in retards, so that just goes to show that being a scientologist automatically means you’re retarded. Now shove off before I shove my tray up your backside!”

About this time the store manager comes out and asks what the problem is. The dude says he came over to ask some questions and I got violent, but I had like four or five friends with me and they took this time to speak up about how he was harassing us.
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Posted 4/22/08
Now don't get me wrong, I'm in no way better than anyone else; remember i am the guy that stirred up shit at the premier of The Passion of Christ. But then again that was a few years ago and i've calmed down a bit in my old age, Hahahaha. I've read the book of Scientology, i make it my goal in life to at least read the book of whatever religion before i make an opinion about it.

I'll never hold a grudge against the man, he was offended, that at least to me is a normal human emotion. Plus, Jim was there; if he wasn't i'd probably wouldn't have been so calm. If it were just me and someone else, I might have overturned my food into his lap and asked if the "feel bad" worms dug deep enough into my brain yet.

But all in all, i really don't care about such things. I know a little bit about Scientology, but that was my first encounter with a Scientologist. Yeah, i never knew someone who believed in that before. Here's a funny little epilogue to this story. I got a phone call yesterday, for you know who. Don't freak out, i gave him my full name when i introucted myself and plus i do live in a small town, my number is in the phonebook.

I asked him to me when at a park and we burned the shirt. Jim came with me. So, i asked if i was being blacklisted now? He laughed and said no.

So after that we left.

I don't hate the people, i just don't trust their beliefs.
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Posted 4/22/08

Joliame wrote:

Now don't get me wrong, I'm in no way better than anyone else; remember i am the guy that stirred up shit at the premier of The Passion of Christ. But then again that was a few years ago and i've calmed down a bit in my old age, Hahahaha. I've read the book of Scientology, i make it my goal in life to at least read the book of whatever religion before i make an opinion about it.

I'll never hold a grudge against the man, he was offended, that at least to me is a normal human emotion. Plus, Jim was there; if he wasn't i'd probably wouldn't have been so calm. If it were just me and someone else, I might have overturned my food into his lap and asked if the "feel bad" worms dug deep enough into my brain yet.

But all in all, i really don't care about such things. I know a little bit about Scientology, but that was my first encounter with a Scientologist. Yeah, i never knew someone who believed in that before. Here's a funny little epilogue to this story. I got a phone call yesterday, for you know who. Don't freak out, i gave him my full name when i introucted myself and plus i do live in a small town, my number is in the phonebook.

I asked him to me when at a park and we burned the shirt. Jim came with me. So, i asked if i was being blacklisted now? He laughed and said no.

So after that we left.

I don't hate the people, i just don't trust their beliefs.


I’m glad you guys worked things out. You know, I don’t know you IRL, but if you’re anything like what you appear on the internet I can tell you I honestly and sincerely like you. Our opinions at times clash, but that doesn’t matter.

I’m a considerably liberal Christian. The bible says that love is more important than faith, and so I believe that people can work their way into heaven simply by trying their best to do what’s right by others .

I think that in doing this we give ourselves a second chance, what the Catholics might call purgatory. I dunno, I don’t like the idea of anybody burning in hell.

But, that’s the thing about all Christians. A lot of us are really pushy with our beliefs, and people get mad, but think about it. Let’s say you believe that you knew something that could save a person from being arrested and tortured-when that person didn’t do anything particularly wrong. Wouldn’t you inform that person? Now multiply that times a thousand and you can understand the sentiments of many Christians.

In heart they’re not bad, they’re just not…socially capable.

Even people I absolutely abhor, I love. Magnus is a great example. When he was here the two of us went at it like cats-and-dogs, but he’s a really great guy. Magnus dedicates himself to doing what he feels is right. It happens that he feels fighting organized religion is right, and so he often offended me, but the fact remains that he and I are doing the exact same thing.

When I preach Christ I’m trying to do something right by somebody, to do something good for people. When he attacks organized religion he’s doing the same thing, his intentions are true.

People are good and kind by nature, we’re just warped and jaded by our surroundings. That’s my opinion.

Whatever the case, I’m getting preachy. Sorry, but that’s my two-cents.
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Posted 4/23/08

SeraphAlford wrote:

I’m glad you guys worked things out. You know, I don’t know you IRL, but if you’re anything like what you appear on the internet I can tell you I honestly and sincerely like you. Our opinions at times clash, but that doesn’t matter.

I’m a considerably liberal Christian. The bible says that love is more important than faith, and so I believe that people can work their way into heaven simply by trying their best to do what’s right by others .

I think that in doing this we give ourselves a second chance, what the Catholics might call purgatory. I dunno, I don’t like the idea of anybody burning in hell.

But, that’s the thing about all Christians. A lot of us are really pushy with our beliefs, and people get mad, but think about it. Let’s say you believe that you knew something that could save a person from being arrested and tortured-when that person didn’t do anything particularly wrong. Wouldn’t you inform that person? Now multiply that times a thousand and you can understand the sentiments of many Christians.

In heart they’re not bad, they’re just not…socially capable.

Even people I absolutely abhor, I love. Magnus is a great example. When he was here the two of us went at it like cats-and-dogs, but he’s a really great guy. Magnus dedicates himself to doing what he feels is right. It happens that he feels fighting organized religion is right, and so he often offended me, but the fact remains that he and I are doing the exact same thing.

When I preach Christ I’m trying to do something right by somebody, to do something good for people. When he attacks organized religion he’s doing the same thing, his intentions are true.

People are good and kind by nature, we’re just warped and jaded by our surroundings. That’s my opinion.

Whatever the case, I’m getting preachy. Sorry, but that’s my two-cents.


Hahaha, well i have to say that's the first time someone has said that i seem pretty cool in virtual form. But let me reassure you, i'm as much as myself here as i am anywhere else. I really don't see the point in changing who i am online, somehow to me changing who you are online to who you are in real life seems....well...pathetically and embarrassingly lame. And kind of sad. But yeah, you seem awesome yourself. I know you were sometimes offended by what magus had said but i loved coming here and reading what you guys wrote, mainly, because both of you weren't just flaming each other, you where intelligently discussing your views. Something you rarely see these day; be it internet or real life.

It just sucks that he left. I would love to hear more of what he had to say.


"Let’s say you believe that you knew something that could save a person from being arrested and tortured-when that person didn’t do anything particularly wrong. Wouldn’t you inform that person?"


And you're damn right i would inform my friend. But at the same time my thoughts are: even if that friend does get tortured for something he could have simply avoided, even if it was a small thing, wouldn't i get a little angry at the person doing the torture? I mean, yes my friend didn't listen to good clean common sense, but there's no reason for the torture. It makes me ask the question: How can you be such a control freak?

So my friend didn't do the right thing, but he was a good person; he never stole, yes he lied but it was to save others feelings, but there's no reason to burn him at the stake and cut off his genitalia.

I know we are talking about religion, but i'm taking the question a little to literally. The bible has rules that it asks you to follow or be punished. But for me not seeing the "higher power" makes me comfortable. In fact i hope i do turn out to be wrong. If i die, and there is such a thing as the pearly gates then I'll be amazed and humbled. But i've living my life in the way i wished. I may not be the best man on the planet, but i know i'm not the worst. I'm short tempered, i enjoy food and books and video games. I spend more time reading than i do comforting my roommates when they have had a bad day, and i doubt the Host of all Host's would turn me away.

Even if he does, i'll do what i've always done when asked to leave a place i wasn't invited to in the first place; I'll bow my head, excuse myself and be on my way. When it comes to hell i feel ultimate fear and my stomach twists in the worst way, and i can sense my mortality; my unworthy-ness. It's not a sensation i enjoy.

The way i think....is just that. I've always been this way. For me there is no heaven, it's not a place i feel i would belong. I've wrong many people and some i never felt bad about and most likely never will. They had wrong someone i cared about. Someone can insult me all day, if i feel it's dissevered i'll just take it, but when it comes to my friends, that dog won't hunt. Insult a friend then you better have a reason good enough for me to understand. Because i won't hit you, i'll just have your credit care declined next time you go out, and remorse will not follow me.

Even though it embarrasses me to mention this, since i think it's super ridiculous, my roommates father refers to me as "Samurai" Joliame.

Joliame is not my real name. He calls me by my real name.
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Joliame wrote:

Hahaha, well i have to say that's the first time someone has said that i seem pretty cool in virtual form. But let me reassure you, i'm as much as myself here as i am anywhere else. I really don't see the point in changing who i am online, somehow to me changing who you are online to who you are in real life seems....well...pathetically and embarrassingly lame. And kind of sad. But yeah, you seem awesome yourself. I know you were sometimes offended by what magus had said but i loved coming here and reading what you guys wrote, mainly, because both of you weren't just flaming each other, you where intelligently discussing your views. Something you rarely see these day; be it internet or real life.

It just sucks that he left. I would love to hear more of what he had to say.


"Let’s say you believe that you knew something that could save a person from being arrested and tortured-when that person didn’t do anything particularly wrong. Wouldn’t you inform that person?"


And you're damn right i would inform my friend. But at the same time my thoughts are: even if that friend does get tortured for something he could have simply avoided, even if it was a small thing, wouldn't i get a little angry at the person doing the torture? I mean, yes my friend didn't listen to good clean common sense, but there's no reason for the torture. It makes me ask the question: How can you be such a control freak?

So my friend didn't do the right thing, but he was a good person; he never stole, yes he lied but it was to save others feelings, but there's no reason to burn him at the stake and cut off his genitalia.

I know we are talking about religion, but i'm taking the question a little to literally. The bible has rules that it asks you to follow or be punished. But for me not seeing the "higher power" makes me comfortable. In fact i hope i do turn out to be wrong. If i die, and there is such a thing as the pearly gates then I'll be amazed and humbled. But i've living my life in the way i wished. I may not be the best man on the planet, but i know i'm not the worst. I'm short tempered, i enjoy food and books and video games. I spend more time reading than i do comforting my roommates when they have had a bad day, and i doubt the Host of all Host's would turn me away.

Even if he does, i'll do what i've always done when asked to leave a place i wasn't invited to in the first place; I'll bow my head, excuse myself and be on my way. When it comes to hell i feel ultimate fear and my stomach twists in the worst way, and i can sense my mortality; my unworthy-ness. It's not a sensation i enjoy.

The way i think....is just that. I've always been this way. For me there is no heaven, it's not a place i feel i would belong. I've wrong many people and some i never felt bad about and most likely never will. They had wrong someone i cared about. Someone can insult me all day, if i feel it's dissevered i'll just take it, but when it comes to my friends, that dog won't hunt. Insult a friend then you better have a reason good enough for me to understand. Because i won't hit you, i'll just have your credit care declined next time you go out, and remorse will not follow me.

Even though it embarrasses me to mention this, since i think it's super ridiculous, my roommates father refers to me as "Samurai" Joliame.

Joliame is not my real name. He calls me by my real name.


Well, what you mentioned about religion is a real and strong position many atheists hold. However, it doesn’t directly reflect the actions of Christians, but rather God-and, a misinterpreted God, in my opinion. I wouldn’t claim to know everything, but from the bible and my personal experience I don’t think that heaven are hell are just “punishments” “rewards” that God throws at us.

I think of heaven, based on my bible reading, and studying of Christian theology, is the result of a good life. God doesn’t just clap his hands and throw us into hell. No, hell is the result of a “bad life.” We choose heaven and hell in everything we do, everyday. I also don’t believe that it works like the Muslims say, where God comes out and weighs our good and bad deeds, completely ignoring circumstances, completely ignoring everything that is anything, any color, as if everything was black or white, right or wrong.

Another thing I believe in is a second chance. The Catholic call it purgatory. I’m not so certain I’m ready to conform to all of that. However, the bible doesn’t say that God comes straight to us when we die. No, it says he gathers us on the “last day,” and so I must wonder: Where do we go in the mean time, and why? Our flesh may die but our souls are eternal, so, where will we be?

My belief is that we’ll be presented with the divinity, presented with truth, and given a chance to choose to accept it or not. A lot of Christians agree with me, and only the most conservative disagree.

Also, the bible says that there is more than one way to be forgiven for sins. Love, for example, covers a multitude of sin. I think the way it works is sort of like…you did your best, even if at times you failed, to live a good life. Perhaps you didn’t see the truth behind a matter, but as long as you tried to do what you felt is right-you were acting in love. God forgives you.

The bible tells us that Jesus Christ went out saving people on the Sabbath. Technically, we have ourselves here a sin. But Christ was doing this for the sake of other people, and so I don’t think it was a sin.

Magnus, Magnus attacks Christ a lot-but he does so because his personal experience with religion leads him to believe it’s a bad thing for people.

Does this mean we should just ignore the message of God? No, not at all. That message is a guideline. Living a Christian life is fulfilling and brings happiness to those around you. Mind you, I mean a -real- Christian life, not that crap where you go around saying “gays and blacks are evil.”

As far as hell goes…yeah, that concept makes my stomach cringe too. It hurts just to think about it. Luckily, however, my fear is soothed by faith. It’s a comfortable sensation, to know I’ll go to heaven.

By the way, I’m more or less the same IRL as I am on the internet, but-I admit, on the internet it’s MUCH easier to look smart and stuff than it is IRL. I’m no good with people face to face. XD




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Posted 4/23/08

SeraphAlford wrote:



By the way, I’m more or less the same IRL as I am on the internet, but-I admit, on the internet it’s MUCH easier to look smart and stuff than it is IRL. I’m no good with people face to face. XD






Really? I find it more difficult here on the internet to sound intelligent than in real life. At least when you're face to face with a person and you're not sure if what you are trying to say is coming across, at least you have body language and facial expression to fall back on. Plus, i'm a terrible speller. So looking smart on the net is a little challenge.

I sometimes almost envy people when they say they know they will be going to heaven. Makes me kind of wish i had that sort of conviction. For me it all comes down to the thought-process and intimate deals of the heart. I feel when people believe they deserve something for being good is sort of wrong; in my book.

person 1: Will i did a little extra work, so i should be paid accordingly.

person 2: True, but you did work you should have been doing in the first place.

See where i'm going with this? People who do good automatically know they are going to heaven, but in my mind it think: "yeah sure that's cool. But shouldn't you have doing good deeds regardless of your destination after life." It kind of seems all the good deeds are slightly empty. If feels like they are doing them to get to heaven. I know that's completely untrue in what the bible states, but in my minds-eye that's how i see things.

A good deed is just that. There shouldn't be a reward for the person doing them.

If someone asks me to do a favor for them, my first words shouldn't be: "What do i get out of this?" It stops being a good deed and becomes a payoff for something i was asked to do.

So this being how my mind works, i don't feel like i belong to heaven. I can't think of a single i've done good for someone else that i wasn't asked to do in the first place. And i don't count the times when i ask how a friends doing when they are crying and lending my shoulder. That is not a good deed, it's a nice thing to do, but when it comes to friends that action should already be implanted into you.

However, since i don't necessarily believe in heaven these are still my thoughts on the whole process of getting there. It's an impossible summit, i know i'll never be worthy enough to reach.
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Posted 4/27/08

Joliame wrote:

Really? I find it more difficult here on the internet to sound intelligent than in real life. At least when you're face to face with a person and you're not sure if what you are trying to say is coming across, at least you have body language and facial expression to fall back on. Plus, I'm a terrible speller. So looking smart on the net is a little challenge.


Well, your spelling is well enough, but the thing is that my own grammar doesn’t exactly shine. I write all of my posts into a program with spell-check and then copy them here onto Crunchy Roll. The result is that a lot of people automatically assume that I’m awesome with grammar, but the truth is that a large portion of my “correctness” comes from the computer. It’s not me at all, it’s the wonderful minds behind Microsoft Works Word.

The next thing is that when you’re posting you can stop, read what you say, and then re-do it before other people actually have access to it. IRL this isn’t true, you say things once and then it’s done. Next, here it’s easy to pretend that I’m unfazed by personal attacks and the likes. The truth is that I’m like most teenagers, insecure. IRL you’d probably see at least a flash in my eye after an attack.

Plus, it’s easier to type straight than to talk straight, for me. I have trouble getting my thoughts into verbal words, it comes easier from my fingers. Sometimes I think that perhaps I should learn sign language, because my hands are so much more useful than my tongue. Then again, perhaps that’s mere sentiment.

About the good deeds for personal gain…yeah, I’m not going to lie. I’m completely certain that every Christian, myself included, has done something “good” just to make God happy with us. I’ve actually “bargained with God,” in the past. “I’ll give this much money to the poor if you…” that kind of stuff.

However, even with that in mind I truly desire other people’s happiness. I want other people to be happy, and that alone is motivation enough to do good.

The ancient Greeks had multiple words for love. Agape was a perfect love, the kind of Love Christ was supposed to have had for us. This is the love that the bible says is greater than anything else in the world. This is the selfless love, the love that is so absolutely consuming that one completely forgets themselves.

I do not believe any individual can completely attain Agape, at least not in this life. To be so completely imbued with someone else’s emotions that you cease to recognize your own…

However, there are other kinds of love. Philia is “brotherly” love. That doesn’t mean held between to people of the same sex. Philia is the kind of love that makes us want to do good for everyone. However, philia is not entirely selfless-for anyone.

There was an episode of Friends that made a joke out of this-hilarious, really. Basically that talked about how there can be no selfless good deed because any good deed makes you feel good-if you’re a good person.

There are a lot of people who do good things because it makes them feel good. They enjoy to make other people happy. Does that mean that their good deed isn’t valid? No, I don’t think so-at least, not in my book.

I think that the desire of heaven above hell, of feeling good above feeling bad, is a good desire. The fact that you feel good, that you feel like you’ll be rewarded for good deeds, shows that at heart you’re a good person. Would it be better that you feel good for hurting people? That you’re convinced you’ll go to heaven for rape and murder?

No, not at all. I think good deeds are good deeds, and that we’re all driven by at least some inner desire.

As far as never worthy to reach heaven… I disagree, I think you’re worthy of heaven as you are.

The bible talks about heaven, and if what the bible says about heaven is true, then by reciprocity we know that what the bible says about people and their relation to heaven is true. The bible says that we were made in God’s image. God, we’re made in the image of God… Wow, you know, we’re pretty great creatures-us Humans, that we’re actually similar to a perfect entity…

People say that the bible says that Humans are natural evil-it does not. Quite the contrary, if we were naturally evil then God would be evil-but we know he’s not, so we’re not. The bible says we live in the consequences of our actions. Mankind pays for the deeds of mankind.

However, our nature is the nature of God. There is sin in us, but that sin is not a part of us. I can put a rotten hunk of meat in a diamond box-does that mean that the diamond box itself is part rotten meat? No, not at all.

We’re all worthy of heaven, but just because we deserve something doesn’t mean we’re going to attain it. Well, if it assuages your fear any, I believe that you’ll wind up in heaven. I believe in a “purgatory” like state, a place to meditate, a second chance. I believe everyone who desires good-yourself-will be saved in this state.


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Posted 4/27/08

SeraphAlford wrote:

However, our nature is the nature of God. There is sin in us, but that sin is not a part of us. I can put a rotten hunk of meat in a diamond box-does that mean that the diamond box itself is part rotten meat? No, not at all.



Granted that is something i can believe in. But on the flipside, you see a diamond box, believing there is something beautiful inside, and what you find is rotten meat. How disappointing is that? If you put that to people, the analogy is something far more sinister. The exterior of someone you know is honest, kind, and patience. The rotten meat represents the inner workings of that person. So which face is more true? The one you see or the one he hides?

I know it's off topic, but i thought of that when reading it earlier. Even though the meat is not a part of the box, it's contained within the box, which do you look at?

I don't wish to rebuttal your thoughts of me in heaven, in all honesty it was the best compliment i've gotten in a long time. But if you remember, i am the person who has no trouble being the villain if i'm truly annoyed or pissed. I have wished ill toward someone else, and numerous times. You see my conflict when it comes to me and heaven.
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Posted 4/28/08 , edited 4/28/08
^I think you might be taking my analogy too seriously. It wasn’t meant to be so profound as that. I think it would’ve been better for me to say that we’re like…blue. Green is God and yellow is sin, combined we have blue-but blue is not yellow, nor is it green-we’re not God, but we’re not sin-and, in this case, the yellow is only a tiny, negligible portion, we’re a greenish-blue, and as the poem says, green is gold.

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Posted 4/30/08
wow Joliame, I think you handled that wonderfully. I dont think i could have kept my cool for that long.
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Posted 5/5/08 , edited 5/5/08
Before you start reading this post, I want to apologize in advance for my crappy english. I'm not from an english-speaking country, but I hope you can understand what I mean.

---

Wow, Joliame (and Seraph) those are pretty weird encounters. It never happened to me that someone just walked up to me and picked a fight. But I don't wear an offensive t-shirt either.

Anyway, the thing about a lot of religious people is that they care too much. If you want to follow a religion, go ahead, but let other people stay out of this. For example, I think it's wrong to kill animals just to eat them. Therefore, I'm a vegetarian. I just want to live my life the way I think it's right. Most people I know just eat meat - and I'm fine with that. Just because being a vegetarian is important to me, doesn't mean they think the same way about killing animals. Whether you want to be a vegetarian or not has to be your own decision.
The same goes for religion. I don't get offended when someone makes a joke about vegetarians. I don't get offended when someone eats a hamburger in front of my nose. But a lot of religious people take their religion too serious. It's their religion, therefore, you can't offend it or make jokes about it. That doesn't make sense at all in my opinion. I respect christians, as humans. Still I think that what they believe is pure retardism. Why can't I just say so? Why do they have to be offended by the smallest things? They tell me god made animals for humans to eat. Well, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. I won't get offended by it.

Being a vegetarian is just an example. I just want to make my point. You can offend almost anything in this world, and people won't give a shit. But offend any religion, and you're most likely to get in trouble with some people. I wonder why. What's so different about religion when compared to other things?
I used to be a christian though. But I still don't understand.
Maybe Seraph can explain?

Not all religious people are like this, of course, I know. In every group of people there are always a bunch of idiots.
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Hitoli wrote:

Before you start reading this post, I want to apologize in advance for my crappy english. I'm not from an english-speaking country, but I hope you can understand what I mean.

---

Wow, Joliame (and Seraph) those are pretty weird encounters. It never happened to me that someone just walked up to me and picked a fight. But I don't wear an offensive t-shirt either.

Anyway, the thing about a lot of religious people is that they care too much. If you want to follow a religion, go ahead, but let other people stay out of this. For example, I think it's wrong to kill animals just to eat them. Therefore, I'm a vegetarian. I just want to live my life the way I think it's right. Most people I know just eat meat - and I'm fine with that. Just because being a vegetarian is important to me, doesn't mean they think the same way about killing animals. Whether you want to be a vegetarian or not has to be your own decision.
The same goes for religion. I don't get offended when someone makes a joke about vegetarians. I don't get offended when someone eats a hamburger in front of my nose. But a lot of religious people take their religion too serious. It's their religion, therefore, you can't offend it or make jokes about it. That doesn't make sense at all in my opinion. I respect christians, as humans. Still I think that what they believe is pure retardism. Why can't I just say so? Why do they have to be offended by the smallest things? They tell me god made animals for humans to eat. Well, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. I won't get offended by it.

Being a vegetarian is just an example. I just want to make my point. You can offend almost anything in this world, and people won't give a shit. But offend any religion, and you're most likely to get in trouble with some people. I wonder why. What's so different about religion when compared to other things?
I used to be a christian though. But I still don't understand.
Maybe Seraph can explain?

Not all religious people are like this, of course, I know. In every group of people there are always a bunch of idiots.


First of all, your english is great. A few sentence hiccups but nothing outrageous, i understood you perfectly.

As for religion my thoughts why people get so overly heated (even though Seraph could explain it better than I) is that, it's their truth. With Veggie people and meat-eaters it's just want you to put in your body. But religion is their truth on what happens after your body is long since useful. It's scary to think about death and thinking that you'll no longer have thoughts or a personality or know that love is no longer a concern. God to them, is the comfort of knowing that you'll always be loved and that your soul will forever live on, giving you your thoughts back to you after death.

It's a comfort and (to me personally) a security blanket to not fear death and live the way you wish to. If you think about it; to know that one day your vision with disappear along with everything that makes you who your are, is down right fucking frightening. They say sleep is a short death, imagine you'll sleep forever and everything that you know will go on without you. The earth no longer knows who you are, or the things you have done, all your love that you showed others has vanished like a fart in the wind.

Religion is to be comforted in knowing that your love will go on, and that when you start that long, long sleep someone still loves you.

Love is the one thing many, many people will fight for, die for, betray friends for. If someone told you love is the most useless emotion ever displayed by humans you'd probably think they were pretty stupid or cynical. Religion to them is the ultimate love. Saying "no" to their ultimate love seems stupid to them. And i can't blame them for that. Even though it seems i'm promoting religion to you even though i'm an Atheist, is pretty ass backwards, religion is not evil.

Religion can never be evil. But the reason why I'm an Atheist is that i sometimes can't stand the people that are involved. And that's my fault for not being more understanding. But i'm happy the way i live and disrupting what i think is the "ultimate" love pisses me off. The people who follow are the ones that screw it up for most others.
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once in the mall i was wearing a green day shirt that said american idiot and a security guard stopped me and started questioning me about wat it meant!!! I told him 50 times its just a CD but he wouldnt believe me!!!finally i went into the bathroom while he waited outside and changed into my MCR shirt with bullets on it just to piss him off.then i left but not without telling him off
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