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Atheists and Church
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Posted 4/28/08

chinky_sonny wrote:

the fastest growing faith in America is no faith at all. And some atheist think they need a church.

There is a fact that some atheist may simply not be there to come out in the open and tell the people that they are atheist. If they are part of the family or community where attendance at religious worship is an expected norm, a person cannot avoid attending without signaling to everyone that their beliefs are no longer in sync with everyone's else's. At the very least, their attendance to traditional faith has changed: in some cases, that maybe perceived as enough to be treated as a form of betrayal or scandal. If a person reveals that they are in fact an atheist, it might be too much for some to accept. Rather than deal with so much drama and conflict, some atheist just continue to pretend that they believe and keep up appearances. What does this say about religion, it forces to lie about themselves in this way?

arguments allowed but just keep things cool. ☺



that's not an excuse for having a church.. those atheists can stay silent all they want, if they don't stand up to their family and friends then nothing will change and they'll be living a happy lie.. an atheist "church" won't change this. it'll only lead to more conflicts(and segregation/tension in the communities)

for one. the 'lone' atheist wouldn't be able to attend this atheist church without the family or friends noticing, but if they can, they'll still only be living a lie. they have no choice but to stand up, if they want "freedom"... and two. there are greedy or corrupt people out there and will use this church for their own benefits(to a far greater extent than just a [non-profit] group/organization). and in just a matter of time, that 'church' will actually turn into a real church. and hell.. people might even start worshipping the atheist's spaghetti monster. or the agnostic's celestial tea pot even.

lone atheists follow the path of the lone wolf. it is better for them to move on than stay with a people that won't accept them.

atheistism will always be around, and with freedom, it will also grow. churches don't offer enough freedom, and atheist churches would be a waste of resources and time. it may even harm atheistism itself. plus. it'll give religious people a reason to call atheists "copycats"



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Posted 4/28/08 , edited 4/28/08

chinky_sonny wrote:

Do any atheist go to church?



"I don't think that they need a church. I feel like the entire city is their church" fg


How will the atheists protect themselves say from catholics?

Edit:

Example-- the fastest growing faith in America is no faith at all. And some atheist think they need a church.

There is a fact that some atheist may simply not be there to come out in the open and tell the people that they are atheist. If they are part of the family or community where attendance at religious worship is an expected norm, a person cannot avoid attending without signaling to everyone that their beliefs are no longer in sync with everyone's else's. At the very least, their attendance to traditional faith has changed: in some cases, that maybe perceived as enough to be treated as a form of betrayal or scandal. If a person reveals that they are in fact an atheist, it might be too much for some to accept. Rather than deal with so much drama and conflict, some atheist just continue to pretend that they believe and keep up appearances. What does this say about religion, it forces to lie about themselves in this way?

arguments allowed but just keep things cool. ☺


It is probably true that even in this day and age some atheists might go to church/mosque/synagogue/temple etc etc so as not to offend the majority of their community. This is sad, because bowing and scraping to a god you believe in is one thing, but doing it to one you don't believe in is pretty pathetic. Personally as an atheist, I would say that unless your life is under threat it is best not to pretend; you feel stupid singing and chanting like some lunatic, you get bored listening to the tedious sermon and you help facilitate the god myth by joining the congregation. As for offending the community; thats their problem, if they can't handle an atheist in their ranks, then they aren't worth mixing with anyway, find another more enlightened community, or learn to enjoy the look of horror on their faces.

As for an atheist church, whats the point, what would you do. I suppose you could reaffirm your atheism every Sunday, but I think the 'atheist church' attendance would be rather low.

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30 / M / Japan
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Posted 4/29/08
~ deleted off-topic and pointless posts. Keep in mind that this is the ED section, so please post replies with CONTENT. Also, try to keep flaming to a minimum.
Posted 4/29/08
Hmm you know Atheism is not a religion.....it is just a term to describe people who have no faith in a God or some other supernatural/special being....
If they would need a meeting place or a church for that then atheism wouldn't make any sense anymore.
Atheism is just to describe the way a certain person feels about theological theories, but it is not something like a hobby or something that they would need to practice...Okay they could need a meeting place to share views and reasonings of why they think that there is no God, but please no Church..Lmao

Floetry~
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Posted 4/29/08
hmmmmmm us atheists dont need a church but the church my family goes to (i prefer not too)welcomes everybody muslims,buddhists,christians,catholics,and atheists
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38 / F / Somewhere in the US
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Posted 4/29/08

MidnightZorya wrote:

Hmm you know Atheism is not a religion.....it is just a term to describe people who have no faith in a God or some other supernatural/special being....
If they would need a meeting place or a church for that then atheism wouldn't make any sense anymore.
Atheism is just to describe the way a certain person feels about theological theories, but it is not something like a hobby or something that they would need to practice...Okay they could need a meeting place to share views and reasonings of why they think that there is no God, but please no Church..Lmao

Floetry~


Atheism is a religion, the actual belief that there is nothing after death, or a god or higher power than man. The fact that they think the they aren't religious is funny to me. I wouldn't think anything of it if they had a meeting place. Lack of faith or to have faith is not the only definition of religion.
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24 / M / Mammago Garage, Y...
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Posted 4/29/08

silverfizz wrote:


MidnightZorya wrote:

Hmm you know Atheism is not a religion.....it is just a term to describe people who have no faith in a God or some other supernatural/special being....
If they would need a meeting place or a church for that then atheism wouldn't make any sense anymore.
Atheism is just to describe the way a certain person feels about theological theories, but it is not something like a hobby or something that they would need to practice...Okay they could need a meeting place to share views and reasonings of why they think that there is no God, but please no Church..Lmao

Floetry~


Atheism is a religion, the actual belief that there is nothing after death, or a god or higher power than man. The fact that they think the they aren't religious is funny to me. I wouldn't think anything of it if they had a meeting place. Lack of faith or to have faith is not the only definition of religion.


Dictionary.com's definition of a religion is " a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects" (theres one before it but i think this one is more simplified).
As far as I know, all atheists don't follow a set code of beliefs. I, as an atheist, tend to follow some of the extreme Christian moral conducts (no drugs, no sex, help people in need, etc) yet I don't believe in some higher power or attend church or practice any sort of rituals. I also doubt that all other atheists are virgins and have never done drugs. So unless you see religion as something else, atheism isn't a religion.


Nanban wrote:
It is probably true that even in this day and age some atheists might go to church/mosque/synagogue/temple etc etc so as not to offend the majority of their community. This is sad, because bowing and scraping to a god you believe in is one thing, but doing it to one you don't believe in is pretty pathetic.

Sometimes it can't be helped. My family is like super nazi Christian (even though we never go to church), but I still pretend to be faithful because I'm afraid of how they might react, they might even go as far as disowning me. I love my family more than I love my lack of faith, so I'm willing to live a lie to be close to them.
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38 / F / Somewhere in the US
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Posted 4/29/08 , edited 4/30/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


silverfizz wrote:


MidnightZorya wrote:

Hmm you know Atheism is not a religion.....it is just a term to describe people who have no faith in a God or some other supernatural/special being....
If they would need a meeting place or a church for that then atheism wouldn't make any sense anymore.
Atheism is just to describe the way a certain person feels about theological theories, but it is not something like a hobby or something that they would need to practice...Okay they could need a meeting place to share views and reasonings of why they think that there is no God, but please no Church..Lmao

Floetry~


Atheism is a religion, the actual belief that there is nothing after death, or a god or higher power than man. The fact that they think the they aren't religious is funny to me. I wouldn't think anything of it if they had a meeting place. Lack of faith or to have faith is not the only definition of religion.


Dictionary.com's definition of a religion is " a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects" (theres one before it but i think this one is more simplified).
As far as I know, all atheists don't follow a set code of beliefs. I, as an atheist, tend to follow some of the extreme Christian moral conducts (no drugs, no sex, help people in need, etc) yet I don't believe in some higher power or attend church or practice any sort of rituals. I also doubt that all other atheists are virgins and have never done drugs. So unless you see religion as something else, atheism isn't a religion.

This was from my notes on world religion and theory class book
Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

definition for Atheism:–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

The fact that the majority of atheist believe as stated in the above definition, and that is a principle and also many take up the cause of disputing a fact that there is no god/gods ect makes it a religion. A religion is also a set of beliefs that one explains ones existince. I am not a christian btw, I am buddhist/shinto.

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Posted 4/29/08 , edited 4/29/08

silverfizz wrote:
This was from my notes on world religion and theory class book
Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.



Wouldn't that make any sort of political party/organization/whatever a religion as well? In general all liberals, no matter how extreme, believe that the government should have as little involvement in the people's daily lives as possible, right? So according to that definition even something as simple as people who think Pepsi is better than Coke would be considered a religion.
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Posted 4/29/08 , edited 4/29/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


silverfizz wrote:
This was from my notes on world religion and theory class book
Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.



Wouldn't that make any sort of political party/organization/whatever a religion as well? In general all liberals, no matter how extreme, believe that the government should have as little involvement in the people's daily lives as possible, right? So according to that definition even something as simple as people who think Pepsi is better than Coke would be considered a religion.


First of all liberals are for large government and tend to be or lean t'words socialist/ism, conservatives are the ones who believe in little government. In some cases yes political parties can be a religion. It depends on how you look at it. Most people base their choice in politics based on religious beliefs. However the coke/pepsi part cannot because coke/pepsi are a thing it is not a cause, not a principle and not an activity. Drinking coke/pepsi is an activity, but a coke/pepsi sitting in a bottle on a shelf is not an activity until someone uses it. Now if someone worships it you give it a diety status, hence make it a god. Wait wasn't that a movie? Defending that there is not god/gods by citing sources makes it a cause. Doing something because you believe there is a god/gods or because there is not one makes it a principle. I don't know if atheism is an activity though, since I have never heard of one. I consider atheism a religion, if you don't then don't. What I find funny is that so many atheist get mad or upset that I do. Atheism isn't the absence of religion to me, it is one. Of course the definition did come from a class on religion and theroy, but we covered atheism as well as other religions.
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Posted 4/29/08

silverfizz wrote:
First of all liberals are for large government and tend to be or lean t'words socialist/ism, conservatives are the ones who believe in little government.

Really? I thought it was the other way around, but politics isn't really one of my strong points so I guess I'll take your word for it.


In some cases yes political parties can be a religion. It depends on how you look at it. Most people base their choice in politics based on religious beliefs.

But according to your definition, all political causes are considered a religion. Even people voting would all fall into a religion that worships the person they are voting for, right?


I consider atheism a religion, if you don't then don't. What I find funny is that so many atheist get mad or upset that I do. Atheism isn't the absence of religion to me, it is one.


I doesn't upset me, I just don't understand how it counts as a religion based on the universal perception of what religion is. For me it's not even really a cause, the only reason why I'm atheist is because God wasn't doing anything for me when I was Christian despite my piety, so I became atheist so I wouldn't have to worry about answering to some higher power.
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Posted 4/29/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:




In some cases yes political parties can be a religion. It depends on how you look at it. Most people base their choice in politics based on religious beliefs.

But according to your definition, all political causes are considered a religion. Even people voting would all fall into a religion that worships the person they are voting for, right?


I consider atheism a religion, if you don't then don't. What I find funny is that so many atheist get mad or upset that I do. Atheism isn't the absence of religion to me, it is one.


I doesn't upset me, I just don't understand how it counts as a religion based on the universal perception of what religion is. For me it's not even really a cause, the only reason why I'm atheist is because God wasn't doing anything for me when I was Christian despite my piety, so I became atheist so I wouldn't have to worry about answering to some higher power.


Most people don't worship the people they vote for, so do. Just by voting you are not participating in religion but can be, it depends on the person. By that logic you attending church make you a christian by that logic. You are atheist, not christian. As I have stated it depends on how you look at things. To put it in another perspective in one of your earlier posts you stated:

"Dictionary.com's definition of a religion is " a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects" (theres one before it but i think this one is more simplified).
As far as I know, all atheists don't follow a set code of beliefs."

I gave the definition of atheism
definition for Atheism:–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

The majority of atheist's believe in the above definition of atheism. Even using your definiton of religion applies to atheism, the consensus of there is no god/gods is a belief agreed by the majority of those who choose to call themselves atheist. Hence it is a system of beliefs thus a religion.
Posted 4/30/08

silverfizz wrote:


MidnightZorya wrote:

Hmm you know Atheism is not a religion.....it is just a term to describe people who have no faith in a God or some other supernatural/special being....
If they would need a meeting place or a church for that then atheism wouldn't make any sense anymore.
Atheism is just to describe the way a certain person feels about theological theories, but it is not something like a hobby or something that they would need to practice...Okay they could need a meeting place to share views and reasonings of why they think that there is no God, but please no Church..Lmao

Floetry~


Atheism is a religion, the actual belief that there is nothing after death, or a god or higher power than man. The fact that they think the they aren't religious is funny to me. I wouldn't think anything of it if they had a meeting place. Lack of faith or to have faith is not the only definition of religion.


Technically you are right, but it really depends on how you look at it. Plus there are so many diverse definitions for one term(as you can see ---->a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion./ taken from the free online dictionary), so we could play the whole day pasting some definitions that would support our view. Meh.
IMO Atheism is just a term to define people who disbelief in God in a wide range, but none of them really follow any doctrines or any other rules, because there aren't any. Atheism is just a term to tell the others that they don't have a God.
If we look at the term ''Atheism'' closely, then it simply means lack of belief in God or any other beings with higher power.

Now it just depends on how you yourself are defining ''religion'', for me a religion is rather something like an official organisation where people have a meeting place(church for example), and there they are all worshipping the similar ideals and thoughts and of course the same faith, faith to some God or Goddess or other being with higher power and also they follow the same doctrines within that religion. And Atheists don't have any rules, doctrines for how to become an atheist and for how to practice their belief, de facto no God, which doesn't mean that they don't have faith at all, they just have other things they believe in. >.>
Anyways I am not an atheist, I am more of an agnostic, but all this depends on my mood...<.< I guess I change ''religions'' on a daily basis. xD

Anyways this whole thing is a matter of opinion and views, and somehow everything that starts as a harmless idea gets in the end fanatisized by some stupid zealots, and that might also be the main reason why many people start to think that atheism is a religion, because some so-called Atheists are too active in their way of how to express that they think there is no God nor deity, but I don't consider this people as real atheists.
W/e floats your boat ^.~

Floetry~
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27 / M / USA
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Posted 4/30/08
Ya. I've been to a church with friends. They weren't trying to convert me. They just knew that I am into theology.
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23 / F / Osaka
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Posted 4/30/08
...This topic fails, epically. No DUH, they don't go to church! If they did, then they wouldn't be atheists.
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