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Post Reply Should people be allowed to own guns?
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Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:

...I honestly think no. Guns have one purpose - hurting, and killing. If you have no bullets, what can you use a gun for? You can't eat it, you can't wear it... maybe it'd make a huge paper weight.

This being said, I understand that in our world, there are some people who need to carry guns to combat other people wearing guns and using bombs. But I think the world would be nicer if guns had never been invented.


No. you're wrong there. Guns, like any tool, are multipurpose. It's this sort of attitude that leads to polarization of the debate. Maybe if both sides could concede that the other has some truth on their side you could get somewhere.





I'm willing to hear the other uses of guns.

Edit: Both willing and interested.

I suppose there's shooting contests, where you test your aim and skill and such. But... in comparison to a knife, which, while can be used to hurt and kill, can also be used to shape, cook, and all sorts of useful things... Guns seem redundant to me.
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Posted 1/5/13

loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:

...I honestly think no. Guns have one purpose - hurting, and killing. If you have no bullets, what can you use a gun for? You can't eat it, you can't wear it... maybe it'd make a huge paper weight.

This being said, I understand that in our world, there are some people who need to carry guns to combat other people wearing guns and using bombs. But I think the world would be nicer if guns had never been invented.


No. you're wrong there. Guns, like any tool, are multipurpose. It's this sort of attitude that leads to polarization of the debate. Maybe if both sides could concede that the other has some truth on their side you could get somewhere.





I'm willing to hear the other uses of guns.

Edit: Both willing and interested.

I suppose there's shooting contests, where you test your aim and skill and such. But... in comparison to a knife, which, while can be used to hurt and kill, can also be used to shape, cook, and all sorts of useful things... Guns seem redundant to me.


Well to be fair. I assumed you meant hurting and killing people.

Hunters use guns all the time to kill animals. Hurting them is considered unethical.
Farmers use guns to protect their livestock from predators and pests. I suppose hurting might be functional there since chasing off a predator or pest is nearly as good as making sure it never bothers your livestock again.

but all a gun does is throw a chunk of metal jacketed lead downrange. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. and putting it in those terms, demonizing it doesn't aid the conversation.


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Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13


Well as i respect your argument i disagree in your views of psychological egoism. With your base principle being that all persons are motivated by self-interest and that there are no acts of altruism i can see that we come from very differing points of views.

The other problem with psychological egoism is that it only explains how things are and offers no claims as to how things ought to be, which i find to be a huge cop-out.

Edit: and as for the multiple explanations, just because there is a presence of multiple partitions does not make for a less valuable assertion.
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Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13
i say yes because even if they out law guns people can still get them so all the bad people have guns and none of the good people will have them any more

and if u think other wise just look at all the outlawed drugs still going around

plus if guns are outlawed that means no more registered guns/bullets so that means when people get shot theirs no way to trace it back to them any more
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Posted 1/5/13

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:

...I honestly think no. Guns have one purpose - hurting, and killing. If you have no bullets, what can you use a gun for? You can't eat it, you can't wear it... maybe it'd make a huge paper weight.

This being said, I understand that in our world, there are some people who need to carry guns to combat other people wearing guns and using bombs. But I think the world would be nicer if guns had never been invented.


No. you're wrong there. Guns, like any tool, are multipurpose. It's this sort of attitude that leads to polarization of the debate. Maybe if both sides could concede that the other has some truth on their side you could get somewhere.





I'm willing to hear the other uses of guns.

Edit: Both willing and interested.

I suppose there's shooting contests, where you test your aim and skill and such. But... in comparison to a knife, which, while can be used to hurt and kill, can also be used to shape, cook, and all sorts of useful things... Guns seem redundant to me.


Well to be fair. I assumed you meant hurting and killing people.

Hunters use guns all the time to kill animals. Hurting them is considered unethical.
Farmers use guns to protect their livestock from predators and pests. I suppose hurting might be functional there since chasing off a predator or pest is nearly as good as making sure it never bothers your livestock again.

but all a gun does is throw a chunk of metal jacketed lead downrange. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. and putting it in those terms, demonizing it doesn't aid the conversation.




Ah, I did actually mean for animals and such to be included in the "hurting and killing". But I get that people have to eat, and that farmers have to protect livestock if they want to eat. (I mean, that's why I here, so that the people who make anime can eat.) And I guess if there's no other way for them to achieve the same effect, for them, guns are a necessity.

You're right. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. It's dangerous, but so is a car.

But, I still think people, at least, most people, shouldn't have guns. When you hold a gun, you usually intend to do something harm. And while sometimes you have to protect yourself by harming someone, giving people guns with "if you have a gun you can protect yourself from someone with a gun" isn't the right idea. When you drive a car, you just don't usually intend to hit stuff, you just want to get from point A to point B.

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its not about using the gun to defend yourself its about putting other people who might do harm to you that hey he might have a gun me personally i don't think i could ever shoot someone but i still think people should have guns
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Posted 1/5/13

Guardian_Bob wrote:


MoxiRoxi wrote:

I say no, just because guns only have one use and that is to kill living things. Knives can be used as a weapon, but they are also used for cutting food, etc. But since people love their guns so much, at least take a test to see if you are mentally capable of wielding a gun. Even killing animals for fun with a gun just gives me shudders down my spine. There are other things you can do for fun. A lot of other things.


First, I take exception to the though that anyone killing an animal must be doing it for fun. You simply haven't encountered a case where a gun might be used to kill an animal for a purpose. See my post above for such a case.

Furthermore, I take exception to the though that a gun is only used for killing. What about a starter pistol? What about scaring off wild life?

A gun is a tool, and the uses are only limited by your imagination. That said, by your narrow definition bows and arrows would need to be banned, as well as swords.


I see what you're saying about the swords and bow and arrow stuff. That is true. I respect your opinion, but something like a starter pistol has always been little dumb to me- you could use something else. And I guess in a way, guns are more scary than the other weapons you mentioned because guns are more instant with the bullets and such. But I guess we'll always need weapons if we need to kill animals for food. I guess even though I love eating meat, I will never be a violent person... I'm very against it. So thanks for the quote/reply. I appreciate another outlook about this.
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Posted 1/5/13

loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:

...I honestly think no. Guns have one purpose - hurting, and killing. If you have no bullets, what can you use a gun for? You can't eat it, you can't wear it... maybe it'd make a huge paper weight.

This being said, I understand that in our world, there are some people who need to carry guns to combat other people wearing guns and using bombs. But I think the world would be nicer if guns had never been invented.


No. you're wrong there. Guns, like any tool, are multipurpose. It's this sort of attitude that leads to polarization of the debate. Maybe if both sides could concede that the other has some truth on their side you could get somewhere.





I'm willing to hear the other uses of guns.

Edit: Both willing and interested.

I suppose there's shooting contests, where you test your aim and skill and such. But... in comparison to a knife, which, while can be used to hurt and kill, can also be used to shape, cook, and all sorts of useful things... Guns seem redundant to me.


Well to be fair. I assumed you meant hurting and killing people.

Hunters use guns all the time to kill animals. Hurting them is considered unethical.
Farmers use guns to protect their livestock from predators and pests. I suppose hurting might be functional there since chasing off a predator or pest is nearly as good as making sure it never bothers your livestock again.

but all a gun does is throw a chunk of metal jacketed lead downrange. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. and putting it in those terms, demonizing it doesn't aid the conversation.




Ah, I did actually mean for animals and such to be included in the "hurting and killing". But I get that people have to eat, and that farmers have to protect livestock if they want to eat. (I mean, that's why I here, so that the people who make anime can eat.) And I guess if there's no other way for them to achieve the same effect, for them, guns are a necessity.

You're right. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. It's dangerous, but so is a car.

But, I still think people, at least, most people, shouldn't have guns. When you hold a gun, you usually intend to do something harm. And while sometimes you have to protect yourself by harming someone, giving people guns with "if you have a gun you can protect yourself from someone with a gun" isn't the right idea. When you drive a car, you just don't usually intend to hit stuff, you just want to get from point A to point B.



And as a person with a farm, I don't object to the stipulation that there be a license or some other test to have a gun.

I would object to forced conscription to get a weapon (that's how most the Swiss own guns and have a low firearm crime rate).

As I said before, I object to an all out ban.
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Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13


Hope nobody's put this pic already lol.
Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13
Just wondering why people made weapons in the first place..
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Posted 1/5/13

Guardian_Bob wrote:


loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:

...I honestly think no. Guns have one purpose - hurting, and killing. If you have no bullets, what can you use a gun for? You can't eat it, you can't wear it... maybe it'd make a huge paper weight.

This being said, I understand that in our world, there are some people who need to carry guns to combat other people wearing guns and using bombs. But I think the world would be nicer if guns had never been invented.


No. you're wrong there. Guns, like any tool, are multipurpose. It's this sort of attitude that leads to polarization of the debate. Maybe if both sides could concede that the other has some truth on their side you could get somewhere.





I'm willing to hear the other uses of guns.

Edit: Both willing and interested.

I suppose there's shooting contests, where you test your aim and skill and such. But... in comparison to a knife, which, while can be used to hurt and kill, can also be used to shape, cook, and all sorts of useful things... Guns seem redundant to me.


Well to be fair. I assumed you meant hurting and killing people.

Hunters use guns all the time to kill animals. Hurting them is considered unethical.
Farmers use guns to protect their livestock from predators and pests. I suppose hurting might be functional there since chasing off a predator or pest is nearly as good as making sure it never bothers your livestock again.

but all a gun does is throw a chunk of metal jacketed lead downrange. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. and putting it in those terms, demonizing it doesn't aid the conversation.




Ah, I did actually mean for animals and such to be included in the "hurting and killing". But I get that people have to eat, and that farmers have to protect livestock if they want to eat. (I mean, that's why I here, so that the people who make anime can eat.) And I guess if there's no other way for them to achieve the same effect, for them, guns are a necessity.

You're right. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. It's dangerous, but so is a car.

But, I still think people, at least, most people, shouldn't have guns. When you hold a gun, you usually intend to do something harm. And while sometimes you have to protect yourself by harming someone, giving people guns with "if you have a gun you can protect yourself from someone with a gun" isn't the right idea. When you drive a car, you just don't usually intend to hit stuff, you just want to get from point A to point B.



And as a person with a farm, I don't object to the stipulation that there be a license or some other test to have a gun.

I would object to forced conscription to get a weapon (that's how most the Swiss own guns and have a low firearm crime rate).

As I said before, I object to an all out ban.


If you don't mind me asking, what for, and how often would you use a gun, if you have one?
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Posted 1/5/13

loki_lee wrote:


Guardian_Bob wrote:


loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


loki_lee wrote:

...I honestly think no. Guns have one purpose - hurting, and killing. If you have no bullets, what can you use a gun for? You can't eat it, you can't wear it... maybe it'd make a huge paper weight.

This being said, I understand that in our world, there are some people who need to carry guns to combat other people wearing guns and using bombs. But I think the world would be nicer if guns had never been invented.


No. you're wrong there. Guns, like any tool, are multipurpose. It's this sort of attitude that leads to polarization of the debate. Maybe if both sides could concede that the other has some truth on their side you could get somewhere.





I'm willing to hear the other uses of guns.

Edit: Both willing and interested.

I suppose there's shooting contests, where you test your aim and skill and such. But... in comparison to a knife, which, while can be used to hurt and kill, can also be used to shape, cook, and all sorts of useful things... Guns seem redundant to me.


Well to be fair. I assumed you meant hurting and killing people.

Hunters use guns all the time to kill animals. Hurting them is considered unethical.
Farmers use guns to protect their livestock from predators and pests. I suppose hurting might be functional there since chasing off a predator or pest is nearly as good as making sure it never bothers your livestock again.

but all a gun does is throw a chunk of metal jacketed lead downrange. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. and putting it in those terms, demonizing it doesn't aid the conversation.




Ah, I did actually mean for animals and such to be included in the "hurting and killing". But I get that people have to eat, and that farmers have to protect livestock if they want to eat. (I mean, that's why I here, so that the people who make anime can eat.) And I guess if there's no other way for them to achieve the same effect, for them, guns are a necessity.

You're right. It doesn't have to be a tool for murder and terror. It's dangerous, but so is a car.

But, I still think people, at least, most people, shouldn't have guns. When you hold a gun, you usually intend to do something harm. And while sometimes you have to protect yourself by harming someone, giving people guns with "if you have a gun you can protect yourself from someone with a gun" isn't the right idea. When you drive a car, you just don't usually intend to hit stuff, you just want to get from point A to point B.



And as a person with a farm, I don't object to the stipulation that there be a license or some other test to have a gun.

I would object to forced conscription to get a weapon (that's how most the Swiss own guns and have a low firearm crime rate).

As I said before, I object to an all out ban.


If you don't mind me asking, what for, and how often would you use a gun, if you have one?


I actually do own one now, and haven't had to use it. It had a trigger lock within 48 hours of entering my home (my wife brought it up from the family farm down south.) It is a combination .22 rifle and 20 gauge shotgun. We've heard coyotes in the area but they seem to stay away.

I actually hope I never have to use it. That said I'd prefer to have it around rather than having a dead lamb or dead cow. We have only lived here a year; however, my neighbors have told me about a few times where they have seen coyotes running through their fields.

As for how often would I use a gun, it would be limited to actual animal attacks. If a coyote comes by but doesn't attack my animals, I'm a live and let live kinda guy.
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Posted 1/5/13
So are we going to try to make guns illegal cause if so might as well make bladed weapons illegal! People will find a way to hurt/kill with out guns! Making them illegal is not the answer, what if a burglar tried to come into my house with a illegally purchased gun and tried to kill me how would i protect myself!?
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Posted 1/5/13
I have no problem with people owning guns, but we need a better way to keep them safe from those who would use them to harm others.
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Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13

pandagamner wrote:

So are we going to try to make guns illegal cause if so might as well make bladed weapons illegal! People will find a way to hurt/kill with out guns! Making them illegal is not the answer, what if a burglar tried to come into my house with a illegally purchased gun and tried to kill me how would i protect myself!?


I'm tired of this argument. It is a load of BS. If guns were suddenly made illegal in the US (which won't happen due to the NRA) and every responsible citizen turned in their gun, it would severally limit the vector in which criminals can obtain weapons.

Not only that, it would help identify criminals as they would be carrying something that makes them easily identifiable as criminals.

Can you point to any statistics (no Switzerland doesn't count due to forced military training) where owning a gun decreases the crime rate rather than increases the fatality rate? If all you have is anecdotal stories, you don't have facts. Prove your case. Put up or shut up.

Now I'm not against private citizens own guns, nor am I against a license and tracking system. There are legitimate uses for a gun and those cases shouldn't be ignored.
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