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Post Reply Should people be allowed to own guns?
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32 / M / US
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Posted 1/15/13

sarrukin wrote:




There is no right in any legal document to own a gun, even the American constitution does not give the right to own a gun. Of course this is always mis-read and simply quoted (2nd ammt) "the right to bare arms" when they stop reading the most important part, the actual text reads: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." This means you the individual have no rights unless you are part of the militia required to protect a free state. A militia is a sanctioned army(police forces are militia). Here is a link to the second amendment: http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment
Each specific state has added to this base right, but it is not uniform federaly

There are other laws which allow a person to protect themselves from the goverment in times of war.


The US Constitution does not give us any rights actually...it just guarantees that the Federal government cannot infringe upon our inalienable rights as human beings.




"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322)

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

George Mason

Co-author of the Second Amendment

during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution. Debates and other Proceedings of the Convention of Virginia,...taken in shorthand by David Robertson of Petersburg, at 271, 275 2d ed. Richmond, 1805. Also 3 Elliot, Debates at 386)

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." (Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"

Richard Henry Lee

writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."

Zachariah Johnson

Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"

Philadelphia Federal Gazette

June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2

Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams

quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787, a pamphlet aimed at swaying Pennsylvania toward ratification, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at 56(New York, 1888))

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights, Walter Bennett, ed., Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican, at 21,22,124 (Univ. of Alabama Press,1975)..)

"No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion." (James Burgh, Political Disquisitions: Or, an Enquiry into Public Errors, Defects, and Abuses [London, 1774-1775])

"To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." [Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, at 560, 34 Am. Rep. 52, at 54 (1878)]

"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)


Thank you!
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Posted 1/15/13 , edited 1/15/13
Gun culture is something hard to create, in Norway weapons are only used for hunting and in the military. Not even standard police use weapons in daily operations, weapons have to be requisitioned if needed.

Children and young people learn how weapons are to be respected, and are not tools for personal opinions. I learned about weapons from my family, who does hunting. I've always thought weapons to be cool, but i have the greatest respect for human life and when i hold a weapon, i am in a different state of mind, its nothing casual about holding a gun.

Guns should only be sold to people who hunt and have licenses, self defence is no excuse. Thats how Norway works, and we have extremely few murders by firearms. (Breivik was psychotic and raised the statistics of firearm kills ALONE )
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Posted 1/15/13

HiromiBlack wrote:

Well I'm from Mexico and while we have a lot of shit going on in here we certainly don't have random people killing kids in schools and guns used in here come from the USA. I guess USA government really needs to have some kind of regulation on guns or any kind of weapon, one thing is to own a pistol and other thing is to own a fucking AK47 D:
I think the excuse of owning a gun for "self protection" is ridiculous, specially in USA :/


SARCASM

Yes, and the drug wars going on and Mexican cartels dumping severed heads in Arizona and California is a perfectly safe thing. Technically sane, but greedy mexican drug traffickers killing adult policemen, politicians, and adolescent rival gang members then coming into the US illegally and taking advantage of US government assistance while selling Drugs tax free is MUCH more appropriate behavior. A single heavily medicated, certified unstable madmen with no training going on a rampage is MUCH more dangerous than the world's most profitable underground organizations. No one needs to protect themselves! Look Everyone, Mexico is safe now! No more illegals coming through people's properties with cocaine! Layoff the boarder patrol! We don't need to protect ourselves, this kid from Mexico says so!
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/mexico/drug_trafficking/index.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/7578-a-headless-body-in-arizona-more-severed-heads-in-mexico

"Self Protection" is a stupid excuse for gun ownership. I'm sure the police will protect everyone!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57453551/kidnapping-by-mexican-police-caught-on-video/

/SARCASM

Pull your head out of your backside kid. The reason you don't hear news reports like that in Mexico is because it happens so often THAT IT ISN'T CONSIDERED NEWSWORTHY.

The Same thing happens in the US too. There were shootings in my neighborhood I didn't learn about until years later because the victims were nobodys, so the news didn't even bother reporting it. I found out about it 10 years later on a cold case TV show. If the victim is a commoner and the murder is simple, it doesn't get ratings. If it doesn't bring ratings, it doesn't make money. If it doesn't make money, the news doesn't report it.

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Posted 1/15/13 , edited 1/15/13


Saw in one episode of Border Wars that many reporters are killed for covering the war on drugs and on cartels specifically. You don't hear it on the news on Mexico, because they'll target you if you do.

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Posted 1/15/13
England used to have guns up until a couple of years ago and things are so bad that the MP's now have to go around armed everywhere due to only the illegals having the weapons, but given that logic how about we stop all police chases by limiting all cars to 3 gallon gas tanks.....? Criminals by definition will get whatever they need wherever they can....going back 6000 years that has been a recurring fact, only bad part is that most of those criminals are now called politicians.
Look at how many crimes are stopped because of weapons, the odds there are 28x more likely (statistics course back from MIT in 97 I remember going through).
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Posted 1/15/13
They should make non-lethal force easier to obtain, and then ban guns. A taser can take down a gunman, right?
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Posted 1/15/13

carsarelittle wrote:

They should make non-lethal force easier to obtain, and then ban guns. A taser can take down a gunman, right?


That is only at a close distance and if there is more than one person there is no taser available to the public that has the ability to hit more than one target at a time also what if they are a 100 feet away how are you going to hit them with a taser? Another thing the bill of rights allows people to own guns. The United States Supreme Court has upheld the right for individuals to own guns. Also only people who obey the law follow gun laws not criminals so basically there is no point in saying people can't have guns because people are sill killed in countries with guns where normal citizens are not allowed to own guns.
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Posted 1/15/13 , edited 1/15/13
nnnjes.

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Posted 1/15/13

carsarelittle wrote:



Also only people who obey the law follow gun laws not criminals so basically there is no point in saying people can't have guns because people are sill killed in countries with guns where normal citizens are not allowed to own guns.


In a lot these countries, the amount of people killed by guns are less then in thee US or other countries that allow guns. Doesn't this prove that banning guns for ordinary people works?
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56 / M / Florida,USA
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Posted 1/15/13
No it doesent prove that banning guns for ordnary people works most of the people killed in the us are in the citys with the strict gun laws where a law abiding person cant buy a gun but the gangs have them and the police have them and all those mass shootings happen where in gun free zones can we say shooting fish in a barrel and why should we pay atintion to the uk when they banned guns the violent crime rate spiked now thir known as the violent crime capital of western eu
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20 / F / Somewhere fun
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Posted 1/15/13
I understand that some of you don't like people owning guns.

However, even if no one was allowed to have them, that would not stop people from injuring or killing others.

There are other means. A person can stab you with a sword, set you on fire, hit you with their car, beat you with a baseball bat or a frying pan until your brain bleeds, shoot you with arrows, choke you with a rope, etc.

It is one of those topics with good points on both sides.

That is all.

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Posted 1/15/13
Yes!!!!!! If they take our guns away how are we going to defend ourselves from bad people who get them illegally!
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20 / F / United States
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Posted 1/15/13
Yes, though people should use them responsibly.
Posted 1/16/13
I would say no, but who knows when you might need one, It depends who's hands the gun is in aswell, I don't think guns are the Issue with violence it's their stability and need for psychiatric drugs. Also, why disarm people when you frequently trade arms around the globe in the hands of trigger happy soldiers and police officials KNOWN to be brutal and inhumane, also known to ignore your human rights.
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Posted 1/21/13

JasonGriffee wrote:

Yes, and there should be zero restrictions.


The United States Constitution wrote:
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Any American who calls for gun control speaks against The Constitution, plain and simple.


And I ask of you, what is so wrong about speaking against the Constitution?
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