First  Prev  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  Next  Last
What are your Religious Beliefs?
53 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Irgendwo in Amerika
Offline
Posted 10/2/06

PhooMagoo wrote:

You're making some pretty bold claims, Amaturus. "Yes, it's just a story." You act as though you know this for certain. How can you deny the possibility that it ACTUALLY happened, and back that up with evidence?


Well, for one a global flood is an impossibility by any geologic or biological reasoning. But aside from that, each religion has a set of stories that were used to tie the followers under a common indentity. The Greeks spoke of the Trojan war and the great Greek triumph there. Does this mean that the Trojan War actually happened as depicted in the Illiad. Obviously no, but it does give credence that something significant did happen to warrant such a story.
141 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
I believe I covered this about 10 comments up.
49071 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
I dont even care anymore. If you dare me or not here is all the flood stories I read about.

The Sumerian myth of Ziusudra tells how the god Enki warns Ziusudra (meaning "he saw life," in reference to the gift of immortality given him by the gods), king of Shuruppak, of the gods' decision to destroy mankind in a flood - the passage describing why the gods have decided this is lost. Enki instructs Ziusudra to build a large boat - the text describing the instructions is also lost. After a flood of seven days, Ziusudra makes appropriate sacrifices and prostrations to An (sky-god) and Enlil (chief of the gods), and is given eternal life in Dilmun (the Sumerian Eden) by An and Enlil.

The Sumerian king list, a genealogy of traditional Sumerian kings also mentions a great flood. The list explains that "kingship first descended to Eridu", and then passed successively to Bad-Tibira, Larak, Sippar and Shuruppak.

Excavations in Iraq have shown evidence of a flood at Shuruppak about 2,900-2,750 BCE, which extended nearly as far as the city of Kish, whose king Etana, supposedly founded the first Sumerian dynasty after the flood.

The myth of Ziusudra exists in a single copy, the fragmentary Eridu Genesis, datable by its script to the 17th century BC.

n the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh, toward the end of the He who saw the deep version by Sin-liqe-unninn (tablet 11), there are references to a great flood. The hero Gilgamesh, seeking immortality, searches out Utnapishtim (whose name is a direct translation into Akkadian of the Sumerian Ziusudra) in Dilmun, a kind of terrestrial paradise. Utnapishtim tells how Ea (equivalent of the Sumerian Enki) warned him of the gods' plan to destroy all life through a great flood and instructed him to build a vessel in which he could save his family, his friends, and his wealth and cattle. After the Deluge the gods repented their action and made Utnapishtim immortal.

The Babylonian Atrahasis Epic (written no later than 1700 BC), gives human overpopulation as the cause for the great flood. After 1200 years of human fertility, the god Enlil felt disturbed in his sleep due to the noise and ruckus caused by the growing population of mankind. He turned for help to the divine assembly who then sent a plague, then a drought, then a famine, and then saline soil, all in an attempt to reduce the numbers of mankind. All these were temporary fixes. 1200 years after each solution, the original problem returned. When the gods decided on a final solution, to send a flood, the god Enki, who had a moral objection to this solution, disclosed the plan to Atrahasis, who then built a survival vessel according to divinely given measurements.

To prevent the other gods from bringing such another harsh calamity, Enki created new solutions in the form of social phenomena such as non-marrying women, barrenness, miscarriages and infant mortality, to help keep the population from growing out of control.

The god Chronos warned Xisuthrus of a coming flood, and Chronos ordered Xisuthrus to write a history and to build a boat measuring 5 stadia by 2 stadia to carry his relations, friends, and two of every kind of animal. The flood came, rose, and killed everyone except those in the boat. After the floodwaters subsided, Xisuthrus sent birds out from the boat, and all of them returned. He sent them out a second time, and they returned with their feet covered in mud. He sent them out a third time, and the birds did not return. The people left the boat and offered sacrifices to the gods. Xisuthrus, his wife, daughter, and the pilot of the boat were transported to live with the gods.

Further information about the Genesis version can be found at Noah and Noah's Ark.

According to the story of Noah's Ark in Genesis, several generations after leaving Eden mankind had become corrupt and violent. God came to regret having made mankind and decided to bring a flood to wipe out the violence. God found only one man on Earth worthy of saving, Noah. So God told Noah to build an ark of particular size and design, and to bring his wife, his three sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and their wives, as well as clean animals and birds by sevens, male and mate, along with 2 of each unclean animal, male and mate into the ark (versions differ as to whether this means seven individuals or seven pairs), with all necessary food and seedlings so mankind and the earth could begin again with a clean slate. In the 600th year of Noah's life, 1656 years after creating Adam, God sent the flood.

According to the account, the flood came from (1) the first historical mention of rains in the Bible, lasting 40 days from the "floodgates of the heavens," and (2) waters from the "springs of the great deep." From textual analysis of Genesis 1, it is often speculated that a large firmament of water existed, above the sky.

"Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. God called the expanse "sky."

The flood waters covered the earth for 150 days.

On the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat, and in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen. In the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month of Noah's life, the face of the Earth was dry. And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry, and God instructed Noah to leave the ark.

After the flood, Noah sacrificed from the pure animals and God promised to never again destroy the Earth as a whole with flood waters, since man is born with an evil inclination from youth and God commits himself to maintaining the rules of nature. God gave Noah this covenant, whereby people were given dominance over all animals and were now permitted to eat meat for the first time but not with its life still in it, and instructed to spread over the earth, but under a new law: that if a man spill another man's blood, his own blood must be spilt. God uses the rainbow in the clouds to seal and remind future generations of this everlasting covenant.

Greek mythology knows two floods, ending two Ages of Man: the Ogygian Deluge ended the Silver Age, and the flood of Deucalion ended the First Brazen Age.

The Ogygian flood is so called because it occurred in the time of Ogyges, founder and king of Thebes. It covered the whole world and was so devastating that the country remained without kings until the reign of Cecrops. [2]

The Deucalion legend as told by Apollodorus in The Library has some similarity to Noah's flood: Prometheus advised his son Deucalion to build a chest. All other men perished except for a few who escaped to high mountains. The mountains in Thessaly were parted, and all the world beyond the Isthmus and Peloponnese was overwhelmed. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha, after floating in the chest for nine days and nights, landed on Parnassus. An older version of the story told by Hellanicus has Deucalion's "ark" landing on Mount Othrys in Thessaly. Another account has him landing on a peak, probably Phouka, in Argolis, later called Nemea. When the rains ceased, he sacrificed to Zeus. Then, at the bidding of Zeus, he threw stones behind him, and they became men, and the stones which Pyrrha threw became women. Appollodorus gives this as an aitiology for Greek laos "people" as derived from laos "stone". The Megarians told that Megarus, son of Zeus, escaped Deucalion's flood by swimming to the top of Mount Gerania, guided by the cries of Cranes.

There has been speculation that a large tsunami in the Mediterranian Sea caused by the Thera eruption dated ca. 1630-1600 BC geologically, but to ca. 1500 BC archaeologically, was the historical basis for folklore that evolved into the Deucalion myth.

Plato's Timaeus (22) refers to the "great deluge of all" and Critias (111-112) refers to the "great destruction of Deucalion." In addition, the texts report that "many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years" since Athens and Atlantis were preeminent.

In Norse mythology, Bergelmir was a son of Thrudgelmir. He and his wife were the only frost giants to survive the deluge of Bergelmir's grandfather's (Ymir) blood, when Odin and his brothers (Vili and Ve) butchered him. They crawled into a hollow tree trunk and survived, then founded a new race of frost giants.

The mythologist Brian Branston noted the similarites between this myth and an incident described in the Anglo-Saxon epic Beowulf, which had traditionally been associated with the Biblical flood, so there was probably a corresponding incident in the broader Germanic mythology as well as in Anglo-Saxon mythology.

According to the apocryphal history of Ireland Lebor Gabála Érenn, the first inhabitants of Ireland led by Noah's granddaughter Cessair were all except one wiped out by a flood 40 days after reaching the island. Later, after Panthalon's and Nemed's people reached the island, another flood rose and killed all but thirty of the inhabitants, who scattered across the world.

There are several variants of the Aztec story, many of them are questionable in accuracy or authenticity.

When the Sun Age came, there had passed 400 years. Then came 200 years, then 76. Then all mankind was lost and drowned and turned to fishes. The water and the sky drew near each other. In a single day all was lost, and Four Flower consumed all that there was of our flesh. The very mountains were swallowed up in the flood, and the waters remained, lying tranquil during fifty and two springs. But before the flood began, Titlachahuan had warned the man Nota and his wife Nena, saying, 'Make no more pulque, but hollow a great cypress, into which you shall enter the month Tozoztli. The waters shall near the sky.' They entered, and when Titlacahuan had shut them in he said to the man, 'Thou shalt eat but a single ear of maize, and thy wife but one also'. And when they had each eaten one ear of maize, they prepared to go forth, for the water was tranquil. — Ancient Aztec document Codex Chimalpopoca, translated by Abbé Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg.

In Inca mythology, Viracocha destroyed the giants with a Great Flood, and two people repopulated the earth. Uniquely, they survived in sealed caves.

In Maya mythology, from the Popol Vuh, Part 1, Chapter 3, Huracan ("one-legged") was a wind and storm god who caused the Great Flood (of resin) after the first humans (made of wood) angered the gods (by being unable to worship them). He supposedly lived in the windy mists above the floodwaters and spoke "earth" until land came up again from the seas.

In Hopi mythology, the people moved away from Sotuknang, the creator, repeatedly. He destroyed the world by fire, and then by cold, and recreated it both times for the people that still followed the laws of creation, who survived by hiding underground. People became corrupt and warlike a third time. As a result, Sotuknang guided the people to Spider Woman, and she cut down giant reeds and sheltered the people in the hollow stems. Sotuknang then caused a great flood, and the people floated atop the water in their reeds. The reeds came to rest on a small piece of land, and the people emerged, with as much food as they started with. The people traveled on in their canoes, guided by their inner wisdom (which, it is said comes from Sotuknang through the door at the top of their head). They travelled to the northeast, passing progressively larger islands, until they came to the Fourth World. When they reached the fourth world, the islands sank into the ocean.

In Caddo mythology, four monsters grew in size and power until they touched the sky. At that time, a man heard a voice telling him to plant a hollow reed. He did so, and the reed grew very big very quickly. The man entered the reed with his wife and pairs of all good animals. Waters rose, and covered everything but the top of the reed and the heads of the monsters. A turtle then killed the monsters by digging under them and uprooting them. The waters subsided, and winds dried the earth.

In Menominee mythology, Manabus, the trickster, "fired by his lust for revenge" shot two underground gods when the gods were at play. When they all dived into the water, a huge flood arose. "The water rose up .... It knew very well where Manabus had gone." He runs, he runs; but the water, coming from Lake Michigan, chases him faster and faster, even as he runs up a mountain and climbs to the top of the lofty pine at its peak. Four times he begs the tree to grow just a little more, and four times it obliges until it can grow no more. But the water keeps climbing "up, up, right to his chin, and there it stopped": there was nothing but water stretching out to the horizon. And then Manabus, helped by diving animals, and especially the bravest of all, the Muskrat, creates the world as we know it today.

In Mi'kmaq mythology, evil and wickedness among men causes them to kill each other. This causes great sorrow to the creator-sun-god, who weeps tears that become rains sufficient to trigger a deluge. The people attempt to survive by traveling in bark canoes, but only a single old man and woman survive to populate the earth

Shanhaijing, "Classic of the Mountain & Seas", ends with the Chinese ruler Da Yu spending ten years to control a deluge whose "floodwaters overflowed [to] heaven". (see: Shanhaijing, chapter 18, second to last paragraph; Anne Birrells translation. note: Nuwa is not mentioned in this translation in the context of a flood)

There are many sources of flood myths in ancient Chinese literature. Some appear to refer to a worldwide deluge:

Shujing, or "Book of History", probably written around 700 BC or earlier, states in the opening chapters that Emperor Yao is facing the problem of flood waters that reach to the Heavens. This is the backdrop for the intervention of the famous Da Yu, who succeeded in controlling the floods. He went on to found the first Chinese dynasty. (see: Shujing, Part 1 Tang Document, Yao Canon; James Legges translation)

Shiji, Chuci, Liezi, Huainanzi, Shuowen Jiezi, Siku Quanshu, Songsi Dashu, and others, as well as many folk myths, all contain references to a personage named Nuwa. Nuwa is generally represented as a female who repairs the broken heavens after a great flood or calamity, and repopulates the world with people. There are many versions of this myth. (see Nuwa article for additional detail)

The ancient Chinese civilization concentrated at the bank of Yellow River near present day Xian also believed that the severe flooding along the river bank was caused by dragons (representing gods) living in the river being angered by the mistakes of the people

In Hindu scriptures (the Puranas (specifically the Matsya Purana), and Shatapatha Brahmana, I, 8, 1-6), an avatar of Vishnu in the form of a fish, Matsya, warned Manu of a terrible flood that was to come and that it would wash away all living things. Manu cared for the fish and eventually released it in the sea. There the fish cautioned Manu to build a boat. He did so, and when the flood arrived, the fish towed the ship to safety by a cable attached to his horn.

In Batak traditions, the earth rests on a giant snake, Naga-Padoha. One day, the snake tired of its burden and shook the Earth off into the sea. However, the God Batara-Guru saved his daughter by sending a mountain into the sea, and the entire human race descended from her. The Earth was later placed back onto the head of the snake.

The people of Ra'iatea tell of two friends, Te-aho-aroa and Ro'o, who went fishing and accidentally awoke the ocean god Ruahatu with their fish hooks. Angered, he vowed to sink Ra'iatea below the sea. Te-aho-aroa and Ro'o begged for forgiveness, and Ruahatu warned them that they could escape only by bringing their familes to the islet of Toamarama. These set sail, and during the night, the island slipped under the ocean, only to rise again the next morning. Nothing survived except for these families, who erected sacred marae (temples) dedicated to the god Ruahatu.

A similar legend is found on Tahiti. No reason for the tragedy is given, but the whole island sunk beneath the sea except for Mount Pitohiti. One human couple managed to flee there with their animals and survived.

In a tradition of the Ngāti Porou, a Māori tribe of the east coast of New Zealand's North Island, Ruatapu became angry when his father Uenuku elevated his younger half-brother Kahutia-te-rangi ahead of him. Ruatapu lured Kahutia-te-rangi and a large number of young men of high birth into his canoe, and took them out to sea where he drowned them. He called on the gods to destroy his enemies and threatened to return as the great waves of early summer. As he struggled for his life, Kahutia-te-rangi recited an incantation invoking the southern humpback whales (paikea in Māori) to carry him ashore. Accordingly, he was renamed Paikea, and was the only survivor (Reedy 1997:83-85).

Some versions of the Māori story of Tawhaki contain episodes where the hero causes a flood to destroy the village of his two jealous brothers-in-law. A comment in Grey's Polynesian Mythology may have given the Māori something they did not have before - as A.W Reed put it, "In Polynesian Mythology Grey said that when Tawhaki's ancestors released the floods of heaven, the earth was overwhelmed and all human beings perished - thus providing the Māori with his own version of the universal flood" (Reed 1963:165, in a footnote). Christian influence has led to the appearance of genealogies where Tawhaki's grandfather Hema is reinterpreted as Shem, son of Noah of the Biblical deluge.

In Hawaii, a human couple, Nu'u and Lili-noe, survived a flood on top of Mauna Kea on the Big Island. Nu'u made sacrifices to the moon, to whom he mistakenly attributed his safety. Kāne, the creator god, descended to earth on a rainbow, explained Nu'u's mistake, and accepted his sacrifice.[4]

In the Marquesas, the great war god Tu was angered by critical remarks made by his sister Hii-hia. His tears tore through heaven's floor to the world below and created a torrent of rain carrying everything in its path. Only six people survived.
(www.wikipedia.com)

There it is examples form the middle east, Europe, America, and the far east.
49071 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
edited cause I double posted
141 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
Well , I guess that means the Flood must have happened?
53 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Irgendwo in Amerika
Offline
Posted 10/2/06

williewill wrote:

Well , I guess that means the Flood must have happened?


Not necessarily in the sense of a Global flood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory
257 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
"...Impossibility by any geologic or biological reasoning." Yes, because according to Christianity, human reasoning is what really matters. Also, the fact that so many cultures have recorded evidence of a global flood...that adds at least a slight ammount of credibility to it, right? But wait, it's impossible by human reasoning! But what if, and this is crazy talk, I know...what if things were DIFFERENT back then? How do we know that "geologic or biological reasoning" that applies to us today applied to them back then?

You continue to make claims as though they are facts, when in reality they are nothing but speculation.
141 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
I don't know where you are going with this, at the time that had happened all the continents would have been together, that could have flooded the world being as all the continents were so close. Or all of that could just be here say with no "real" proof.
53 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Irgendwo in Amerika
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
A religion cannot exist contrary to rationality.

Would you actually argue that the laws of physical world altered themselves to fit your paradigm? And you refer to my thoughts as if they were inane speculation...
141 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
Do you want to "bicker" the realty of the Flood or not? you can't just ignore points you don't want to talk about if you wanna make a point.
53 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Irgendwo in Amerika
Offline
Posted 10/2/06

williewill wrote:

I don't know where you are going with this, at the time that had happened all the continents would have been together, that could have flooded the world being as all the continents were so close. Or all of that could just be here say with no "real" proof.


It's not so simple. If the world had been flood by rains (fresh water) the oceans would have lost their salinity and thus most species there would have died. Coral would have gone extinct for sure. But as I said, this bickering is doing nothing for your theology. You religion doesn't need to think about these things to still have a point.
4883 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Sask-at-chew-an,...
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
ok guys here is the answer to the big question of Where did life come from. Micheal J Fox went back in time with a time machine and ejaculated into the premortial soup Yes I ripped that off from someone else.
257 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
Christianity is ALL about the miracles. I believe in a God who thinks outside the box, and can do what people such as yourself deem as "impossible." Therefore, in my mind and in the mind of all Christians, such a feat is far from impossible, even though human reasoning cannot comprehend it.

So, taking all that into account, yes...I refer to your thoughts as "inane speculation."
257 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / IL
Offline
Posted 10/2/06

Acer2110 wrote:

ok guys here is the answer to the big question of Where did life come from. Micheal J Fox went back in time with a time machine and ejaculated into the premortial soup Yes I ripped that off from someone else.


But where did Micheal J. Fox come from to begin with? He created himself? That's just...mind boggling

4883 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Sask-at-chew-an,...
Offline
Posted 10/2/06
its like the terminator movie Guy sends his own dad back in time to get his mom to have him. How does it work it doesnt just like god doesnt work. Just like having a guy take 2 of EVERY SINGLE species on earth on an arc for 40 days and nights doesn't work. Just like Splitting the sea doesnt work... need I go on? Talking bushes maybe?
First  Prev  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.