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Post Reply ren and satsuki....but who is older???
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Posted 12/2/08
no its impossible for lil Ren to be Reira's son because lil Ren calls Reira by her name not mommy, so that's a definite no. The only possible explanation is lil Ren could either be Nobou's or Takumi's son, although Nobou SAID he used a condom everytime there could of been that one time he didn't.

@ lavis: ur not the only one who thinks that because up until this chapter i believed that lil Ren was Takumi's but now i'm having my doubts, because what could possibly stop Hachi from fulfilling satsuki's wish with the four of them being a family again there must be an EXTREME situation going on that's stopping Hachi from staying with Takumi in London. Hachi already told Junko that she's not divorcing him so what exactly is stopping her from being with him(the four of them). That's why i think lil Ren is the problem and that;s whats leading me to believe that lil Ren is Nobou's son. Because even Nobou looks uncomfortable when Takumi was brought up even though he and Hachi were over and done with a long time ago. and maybe i'm making a bit too much out this scene from chapter 66 but Nobou does seem to be a little bit more interested with lil ren's life then Satsuki's

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Posted 12/4/08
heemm to me it seems like little Ren is Nobu's son and maybe that's why Takumi and Hachi are separated? Maybe Takumi took Ren with him to avoid Nobu and Hachi reunion? geeez I dunno.
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Posted 12/5/08

Shuffleness wrote:

no its impossible for lil Ren to be Reira's son because lil Ren calls Reira by her name not mommy, so that's a definite no. The only possible explanation is lil Ren could either be Nobou's or Takumi's son, although Nobou SAID he used a condom everytime there could of been that one time he didn't.

@ lavis: ur not the only one who thinks that because up until this chapter i believed that lil Ren was Takumi's but now i'm having my doubts, because what could possibly stop Hachi from fulfilling satsuki's wish with the four of them being a family again there must be an EXTREME situation going on that's stopping Hachi from staying with Takumi in London. Hachi already told Junko that she's not divorcing him so what exactly is stopping her from being with him(the four of them). That's why i think lil Ren is the problem and that;s whats leading me to believe that lil Ren is Nobou's son. Because even Nobou looks uncomfortable when Takumi was brought up even though he and Hachi were over and done with a long time ago. and maybe i'm making a bit too much out this scene from chapter 66 but Nobou does seem to be a little bit more interested with lil ren's life then Satsuki's





Hmmm... I really don't think its Nobu's ...his reaction, in that chapter 66 is worried possibly more to confuse us about which ren is the conversation about, remember we didn't know about little ren back then...
I still have doubts he may be Reira's kid... he doesn't need to call her mommy to be her son...I really don't know its confusing..and i just wish they are both hachis kids not reira's anyways... we will see...
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Posted 12/5/08 , edited 12/5/08

veronicanoir wrote:


Shuffleness wrote:

no its impossible for lil Ren to be Reira's son because lil Ren calls Reira by her name not mommy, so that's a definite no. The only possible explanation is lil Ren could either be Nobou's or Takumi's son, although Nobou SAID he used a condom everytime there could of been that one time he didn't.

@ lavis: ur not the only one who thinks that because up until this chapter i believed that lil Ren was Takumi's but now i'm having my doubts, because what could possibly stop Hachi from fulfilling satsuki's wish with the four of them being a family again there must be an EXTREME situation going on that's stopping Hachi from staying with Takumi in London. Hachi already told Junko that she's not divorcing him so what exactly is stopping her from being with him(the four of them). That's why i think lil Ren is the problem and that;s whats leading me to believe that lil Ren is Nobou's son. Because even Nobou looks uncomfortable when Takumi was brought up even though he and Hachi were over and done with a long time ago. and maybe i'm making a bit too much out this scene from chapter 66 but Nobou does seem to be a little bit more interested with lil ren's life then Satsuki's





Hmmm... I really don't think its Nobu's ...his reaction, in that chapter 66 is worried possibly more to confuse us about which ren is the conversation about, remember we didn't know about little ren back then...
I still have doubts he may be Reira's kid... he doesn't need to call her mommy to be her son...I really don't know its confusing..and i just wish they are both hachis kids not reira's anyways... we will see...


That's true but now that we know we can look at it from a different perspective now that we know which Ren they are taking about, and the kid looks too much lik Hachi (lik a lil boy version of her). and if it was Reira's kid i don't think she would say that She she should hate him, if anything knowing Reira if lil ren was her son she would more say at least i have somthing that belongs to Takumi somthing of his i can still hold on to. So no matter what i don;t think i could except that fact or even think of it. I think if it was her and Takumi's kid she would be a bitt more glad and not as emotinally unstable as she is in the future skips.
http://www.onemanga.com/Nana/74/14/

Also the major fact is that Satsuki keeps calling lil Ren Oniichan meaning older brother so its out of the question that it could be Reira and Takumi's legitmate son seeing as Hachi is almost due and Reira is not even pregnant
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Posted 12/6/08

Shuffleness wrote:

no its impossible for lil Ren to be Reira's son because lil Ren calls Reira by her name not mommy, so that's a definite no. The only possible explanation is lil Ren could either be Nobou's or Takumi's son, although Nobou SAID he used a condom everytime there could of been that one time he didn't.

@ lavis: ur not the only one who thinks that because up until this chapter i believed that lil Ren was Takumi's but now i'm having my doubts, because what could possibly stop Hachi from fulfilling satsuki's wish with the four of them being a family again there must be an EXTREME situation going on that's stopping Hachi from staying with Takumi in London. Hachi already told Junko that she's not divorcing him so what exactly is stopping her from being with him(the four of them). That's why i think lil Ren is the problem and that;s whats leading me to believe that lil Ren is Nobou's son. Because even Nobou looks uncomfortable when Takumi was brought up even though he and Hachi were over and done with a long time ago. and maybe i'm making a bit too much out this scene from chapter 66 but Nobou does seem to be a little bit more interested with lil ren's life then Satsuki's



You know what, I really think that Lil Ren is Nobu's son coz of the fact that he was asking about him and the way his face looks and inquires about him. As for Lil Ren being with Takumi, well you guys all know how Takumi is hardcore POSSESSIVE...so he probably took Lil Ren with him because of the fact that he is actually Nobu's son and does not want Lil Ren to be associated with Nobu. Takumi loves Hachi in his own way so of course he would love Lil Ren in his own way even tho he is not his real son but does accept him as his own like he said he would. So thats why I would think Lil Ren is older and is Nobu's baby. As for Satsuki i think she is Takumi's real daughter and is younger than Lil Ren and thus Takumi doesnt feel the need to be as possessive with her as he is with Lil Ren because no one like Nobu will take Satsuki away.

Also, there could be a slight possibility that they are twins because sometimes a doctor will not see two babies or hear two babies because the other baby might be hidden behind the other baby's embreyo or whatever and their heartbeats could beat simultaneously. I've heard of that happening before in real life. A mom expecting one baby gets two instead hahaha.

But anyways all in all I think Lil Ren is older and is Nobu's son while Satsuki is younger and is Takumi's daughter.
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Posted 12/7/08
Well it doesn't make much sense for lil Ren to be nobu's son..because if he was he wouldnt be asking "how's ren?" and why the heck would he go to england with takumi? im pretty sure these are facts: lil ren is takumi's and hachi's son. hachi did NOT have twins.i think satsuki is older..just because she appeared in the manga first.
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Posted 12/7/08

camspam19 wrote:


Shuffleness wrote:

no its impossible for lil Ren to be Reira's son because lil Ren calls Reira by her name not mommy, so that's a definite no. The only possible explanation is lil Ren could either be Nobou's or Takumi's son, although Nobou SAID he used a condom everytime there could of been that one time he didn't.

@ lavis: ur not the only one who thinks that because up until this chapter i believed that lil Ren was Takumi's but now i'm having my doubts, because what could possibly stop Hachi from fulfilling satsuki's wish with the four of them being a family again there must be an EXTREME situation going on that's stopping Hachi from staying with Takumi in London. Hachi already told Junko that she's not divorcing him so what exactly is stopping her from being with him(the four of them). That's why i think lil Ren is the problem and that;s whats leading me to believe that lil Ren is Nobou's son. Because even Nobou looks uncomfortable when Takumi was brought up even though he and Hachi were over and done with a long time ago. and maybe i'm making a bit too much out this scene from chapter 66 but Nobou does seem to be a little bit more interested with lil ren's life then Satsuki's



You know what, I really think that Lil Ren is Nobu's son coz of the fact that he was asking about him and the way his face looks and inquires about him. As for Lil Ren being with Takumi, well you guys all know how Takumi is hardcore POSSESSIVE...so he probably took Lil Ren with him because of the fact that he is actually Nobu's son and does not want Lil Ren to be associated with Nobu. Takumi loves Hachi in his own way so of course he would love Lil Ren in his own way even tho he is not his real son but does accept him as his own like he said he would. So thats why I would think Lil Ren is older and is Nobu's baby. As for Satsuki i think she is Takumi's real daughter and is younger than Lil Ren and thus Takumi doesnt feel the need to be as possessive with her as he is with Lil Ren because no one like Nobu will take Satsuki away.

Also, there could be a slight possibility that they are twins because sometimes a doctor will not see two babies or hear two babies because the other baby might be hidden behind the other baby's embreyo or whatever and their heartbeats could beat simultaneously. I've heard of that happening before in real life. A mom expecting one baby gets two instead hahaha.

But anyways all in all I think Lil Ren is older and is Nobu's son while Satsuki is younger and is Takumi's daughter.



I totally agree with you!! i was thinking exactly the same thing because since their fraternal twins there are two seperate sacs so its possible that one sac was hiding behind the other!

But i did do a little rereading and found that Hachi was six weeks into her pregnancy wen she found she was preggers so nobou was probably 2-4 weeks off to be the father of the first one growing inside her, the one we saw here
. But Although lil Ren is presumbly the first born since Satsuki calls him OLDER BROTHER doesn't mean that satsuki wasn't the first one created. Because at the current moment many of us think that Ren & Satsuki are fraternal twins.

So i did a little research to make sure that it was possible for fraternal twins to have seperate fathers and it turns out it is possible, and those sets of twins are either called bi-paternal twins, or heteropaternal superfecundation. its interesting stuff look it upAnd according to what i red it is possible that One egg can be fertilized during one 'encounter', and the second egg can be fertilized at a later time as a result of a subsequent 'encounter'' lol Nobou's encounter (so like 2-4 weeks later). So im guessing the little dot in chapter 26 was Satsuki at the time and lil Ren was created prob later on after Hachi and Nobou slept together. I know Nobou said he used a condom but i can't get over the fact that even he himself said "it is still possible for me to be the father since i also slept with Hachi"


but i'm really curious to find out why lil Ren keeps hiding evrytime he's suppose to go bakk to Japan. So this my theory; im guessing that knwing Hachi and after readin this current chapter it seems that hachi feels guilty for excluding Nobu from the 'child' in her tummy's life, so maybe they found out that Nobou is actually a father to one of Hachi's kids. So being the kind-hearted woman she is she wanted Nobou to at least hav a part of the lil Ren's life no matter how small, or no matter wat her and takumi agreed on. Because its clear that Hachi still harbours feelings for Nobou even in the future timeline, and now that Nobou seems more mature i think he would be able to handle havin a little but significant part in his sons life if it is his son.

Butl lik you said knowing Takumi he probably brought up the fact that Nobou couldn't handle being a father bak then so i don't think Takumi wants to give Nobou the chance now because again Takumi is a possessive guy. And he and hachi already decided to raise the baby together even if it wasn't his, and just becasue there ended up being twins doesn't mean that agreement should be changed.

maybe i'm making a bit too much out this but this has been bothering me for a few days now, and besides this IS Yazawa were talking about so who knows, but this would certainly be a huge twist if u ask me, and maybe a bit difficult to explain. But we all know Nobou loves the Guitar so does lil Ren ya sure so does Takumi but the only reason he decided to play guitar was because he wanted to make Reira a star, even the way lil Ren dresses reminds me of Nobou. But i wont be upset if im wrong because i think it would be better if Takumi was the father of both because i want a happy ending for Hachi's children its not fair for them to be separated for so long, but then it would be cool if lil Ren was Nobu's son, i would love to see the two of thembonding and im sure Hachi would too again IF lil Ren is Nobou son
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Posted 12/8/08



First of all, I want to give you a round of applause! You certainly researched that really well; I had no idea bi-paternal twins was possible! That's really cool! And the idea of little ren and satsuki having different parents hadn't crossed my mind, I'm really glad you guys are discussing this! I can totally see how it's possible and as you said, Ai Yazawa would throw a crazy twist like that in there. It'd be amazing if that's what happened.. I've always felt so bad for poor Nobu, and I can definitely see the resemblences! I really want to know why little ren won't go back to japan too.. I want to see him and satsuki together, and I for sure want to see him with his mother.. poor Hachi ♥ I love the imperfect love story.. so many emotions.. Ai Yazawa you are friggen awesome!

Damn, I love how much you guys investigated into things! True NANA fans.. it's awesome! Thanks for getting my mind swirling around the possibilities :)
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Posted 12/13/08
i still believe that satsuki and little ren are fraternal twins. and i still believe that takumi is the biological father.
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Posted 12/15/08
I believe they are twins, too, since I just can't see Hachi and Takumi having another child in the next few years. We know that they are basically separated in the future scenes, so their relationship must start going downhill pretty soon.

As for the "bi-paternal" angle, I really hope Yazawa does not choose to go in that direction, as I think it would be a cheap soap opera trick. Part of what made Hachi's situation so tragic when she found herself pregnant was that she knew it wasn't Nobu's kid. Miraculously making Nobu the father after all this time would just be too much.
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Posted 12/16/08
actuallly i dont think she knew, because i think part of the real reason why she didn't want nobou involved in this is because Blast was just starting out and she felt bad because she knew Nobou couldn't help her raise a kid with the condition he was in, because if she did then that would cause problems for blast debut, and she didn't want that. WHich is why she feels bad for excluding Nobou from the decision her and Takumi made.
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Posted 12/17/08
You make a good point, but I still think it would have made a difference. Hachi believes that Takumi probably is the father. If the situation were reversed and she thought Nobu was the father, she might not have been so afraid to tell him she was pregnant. They could have talked it over and made the decision together. But the pregnancy was like a reminder of Takumi coming back to haunt her.
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Posted 12/18/08
I cannot see the reason why Nobu couldn't have had the opportunity to raise a child with Hachi. C'mon, what about Terashima hotel? If I were him I would send to hell my ambitions for a while and come back to my parents in order to ask for help.
I'm sure that Yazawa will mess everything and make Nobu child's father. She likes kinda bitter-sweet endings, as we could see in Paradise Kiss.
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Posted 12/18/08

Shuffleness wrote:

actuallly i dont think she knew, because i think part of the real reason why she didn't want nobou involved in this is because Blast was just starting out and she felt bad because she knew Nobou couldn't help her raise a kid with the condition he was in, because if she did then that would cause problems for blast debut, and she didn't want that. WHich is why she feels bad for excluding Nobou from the decision her and Takumi made.


in reality this thinking will hardly work,.. she is pregnant so obviously she only thinks of herself and for the baby. As far as i remember those words were junko's assumption and not hachi. The sole reason why hachi chose takumi wasn't for the baby or for nobu but because he was the one who really take care of her. Nobu that time set a condition before taking the responsibility he wants an explanation and nana didn’t provide any she completely gave up.
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Posted 12/18/08

mikimata wrote:

I believe they are twins, too, since I just can't see Hachi and Takumi having another child in the next few years. We know that they are basically separated in the future scenes, so their relationship must start going downhill pretty soon.

As for the "bi-paternal" angle, I really hope Yazawa does not choose to go in that direction, as I think it would be a cheap soap opera trick. Part of what made Hachi's situation so tragic when she found herself pregnant was that she knew it wasn't Nobu's kid. Miraculously making Nobu the father after all this time would just be too much.


I agree with you on the whole "cheap soap opera" trick thing. It's really not Ai Yazawa's style.
But thinking about it, she is unpredictable... So many things are possible <except the whole bi-paternal thing>
A previous post said that there had to be an extreme reason for Hachi preventing everyone from being a family.. Well to be honest, the way Takumi acts and the fact he's become slightly colder to Hachi (As he didn't comfort her as he should when Ren died) and the cheating I may add... That and a combination of Hachi becoming stronger especially in not depending on someone else as much as she used to..
Would it all not come together at some point and Hachi has maybe decided to call it a day? Or maybe some sort of trial separation? <not wanting to divorce him and all>

I'm not so sure about the kids being twins. I don't see much coming from the idea of twins... but I wouldn't rule the idea out I guess.

One of you also said that you don't see Hachi and Takumi having another kid in a few years because in the future they are separated.
I see it this way. From when at least the first child is born <which is pretty soon> and the future scenes.. whether it's one or the other there is at least 8 years in which Hachi and Takumi can have another child... Then again to rule out at least a year or two between pregnancies.. so that's 6
And maybe another year or so for the separation and time for Takumi to seem remorseful for whatever happened <as we could see in the future he did seem rather unhappy about not being a family as far as i remember... I apologize if I'm wrong.. my memory is a bit crappy lately>
I'm unsure about Ren being Reira's baby.. but I'm not ruling it out as I can see a surprise like this coming in the future. <even though Reira does not seem motherly towards him.. you just don't know... it's Reira.. her character is funny like that>

I'm also not sure on why Takumi has taken Ren <whether he was his or Nobu's son> because either way Hachi is the mother, it's strange why she doesn't have them both <hence why I think he could be Reira's>

I think I'll stop here lol. Going on way too much.. Been having withdrawals you see lol. I enjoy throwing ideas back and forward, it makes waiting for the next chapter a little more exciting. Let hope Yazawa doesn't do anything else drastic.. or else everyone will cry themselves to death lol. =3=3


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