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90% of Atheists/Agnostics are idiot posers
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digs 
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Posted 5/12/08

the_glob wrote:


digs wrote:Well, the only command God told Adam and Eve was do not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And they did, that was the first sin. God never told them that they couldn't repopulate with their siblings in the beginning. When the world was populated, God laid the rules down for incest and other forms of sexual immorality.


Now assuming god is not all knowing, what you're saying is that god let then commit incest even though later he said it was a sin. So he purposedly let them sin and continue sinning, without stopping them, for quite a while since populating the world would take quite a number of people. Now christ died for your sins but god let them sin, so christ died because god led to it. Interesting

Now assuming god is all knowing, what you're saying is that god knew they would eat the fruit, knew that they would commit incest later yet purposely told them they could not eat the fruit and let them commit incest. So god actually wanted people to
i) do exactly the reverse of what he said
ii) go commit incest


digs wrote: God can do whatever He wants.


Yeah so the bible is completely worthless since he could have changed his mind on stuff eh?


digs You completely rule out the option that God told Moses the creation story in full, I mean, Moses did talk to God on mount Sinai.


Eh? I was working on the premise that the christian creation story was correct and incorrect seperately. The first portion is when genesis is correct. The second portion is when genesis is fake. you really should work on reading the whole thing


digs
But your logic is great for science. It is widely believed and taught in school as fact, that the world was created by a big bang of matter that later formed galaxies, planets, and then life. Now, no one was there in the beginning, and there is no physical evidence or proof (now I am probably going to get a bunch of wiki or biased links....) Science can check and say that the big bang happened and that the earth formed in X year, at Y surroundings and circumstances. And it was all put together and said as fact by Z scientist who doesn't understand the world. What is the result? Biased scientific propaganda ftw ^_^


You sure? Science theorizes, it does not hold as fact the big bang occured. You seriously need to read on how a hypothesis is supported.

Here's the difference between it as religion. A theory is tested against measured data and stands until something is shown that it is wrong then it is reworked or alternates are presented.

But this poor attempt at deflection of attention on what my post was actually about, does not work.

So according to you god is a fickle being.
So is he omniscient and omnipotent?


Back then incest wasn't even thought of. There was no view of incest because there was no other family but the one started by Adam and Eve. But the fact is, is that God is all knowing. God does know the future and He knows that choices we will make. But the emphasis is on the word choices. God desires every human to love him and become saved through Jesus Christ. But God also loves us and wants us to love Him. True love is a choice, and God wants true love. Which is why in life we have choices that we make. God knows what we will choose, but he doesn't make us choose it, we choose it for ourselves. We have a free will, and God knows what we will do and it is our choice what we do.

what do you mean about the first part of Genesis? Do you mean the whole book? Or the Creation story? But imo none of the books in the Bible are fake. God has preserved them because they are His Word.

I know how a hypotheses is supported, but what do they teach in school? It is widely held that the big bang is fact even though it hasn't been proven and can be proven false (much like evolution) It is simply a theory that fits the worldview of biased scientists in the pursuit of logically proving that God is nonexistent, so in their lives they can become gods.

Guess what? Religion is tested too, but by the individual. Religion is in the spiritual realm. You cannot study the spiritual with the physical. You can test dates of the Bible, you can test physical human beings and see if they existed, but you cannot test the God with science. God is omniscient, God is omnipresent, God is omnipotent. No physical thing can hold all of these qualities. God is God, He is not something that we can hold and anylize for ourselves. God is beyond us, we are inferior to God and cannot ever fully comprehend His Holy Mind. We can't put God in a box and say "here it is, lets study it." We can only learn from God and the spiritual by living it and experiencing God, and that is done through Jesus Christ. I can 100% attest to seeing God work miraculously in my life, in the lives of others, and through miracles. God might not pop up and say "here I am" to people that believe in Him, but if we have faith in Jesus Christ as Christians, God will work. Satan is a great deceiver and will confuse people spiritually, that is why we need to be reading God's word, praying, and focusing our hearts on God.
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Posted 5/12/08

YouAreDumb wrote:

Let me start by saying I am an agnostic. I have to say though that most people who are non religious are doing it to be part of the growing trend. They do not have real reasons for their stance any more than religious people do.

Ways to tell if someone is a stupid poser:

1. They talk like they are intellectuals yet they have could not name any philosophers(religious or otherwise) to save their life.

2.They hate religious people, and fail to realize this makes them just as stupid as the fundamentalists.

3. They are "mad" at god.Real atheists/agnostics are not mad at him, since they do not believe in him. When people say they do not believe for this reason they just an idiot.

4. They can be converted using something stupid, such as the ontological argument for god.

5. They are rebelling against religious parents.

There is a lot more, but you get the picture. These people are giving us a bad a name, and most stopped before they make everyone dismiss atheism/agnosticism.


i think you're the idiot if you generalise the world of athiests/agnostics into your little scheme just because of something thats happening locally to you.
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Posted 5/12/08

evin5fwtr wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:

Let me start by saying I am an agnostic. I have to say though that most people who are non religious are doing it to be part of the growing trend. They do not have real reasons for their stance any more than religious people do.

Ways to tell if someone is a stupid poser:

1. They talk like they are intellectuals yet they have could not name any philosophers(religious or otherwise) to save their life.

2.They hate religious people, and fail to realize this makes them just as stupid as the fundamentalists.

3. They are "mad" at god.Real atheists/agnostics are not mad at him, since they do not believe in him. When people say they do not believe for this reason they just an idiot.

4. They can be converted using something stupid, such as the ontological argument for god.

5. They are rebelling against religious parents.

There is a lot more, but you get the picture. These people are giving us a bad a name, and most stopped before they make everyone dismiss atheism/agnosticism.


i think you're the idiot if you generalise the world of athiests/agnostics into your little scheme just because of something thats happening locally to you.


Sure I am. Thats why I am in MENSA. So stupid.
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Posted 5/12/08
"You Are Dumb"- your a troll... this is a troll thread
Posted 5/12/08

YouAreDumb wrote:

Let me start by saying I am an agnostic. I have to say though that most people who are non religious are doing it to be part of the growing trend. They do not have real reasons for their stance any more than religious people do.

Ways to tell if someone is a stupid poser:

1. They talk like they are intellectuals yet they have could not name any philosophers(religious or otherwise) to save their life.

2.They hate religious people, and fail to realize this makes them just as stupid as the fundamentalists.

3. They are "mad" at god.Real atheists/agnostics are not mad at him, since they do not believe in him. When people say they do not believe for this reason they just an idiot.

4. They can be converted using something stupid, such as the ontological argument for god.

5. They are rebelling against religious parents.

There is a lot more, but you get the picture. These people are giving us a bad a name, and most stopped before they make everyone dismiss atheism/agnosticism.


You sort of make me laugh. My sister is agnostic and she is way into philosophy. She used to be a Christian. She knows damn well about religions and has nothing against them. She is not stupid either. She does not really rebel against my parents. There is always someone who makes people generalize a group of people. That is a fact of life.

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Posted 5/12/08 , edited 5/12/08

digs wrote:
Back then incest wasn't even thought of. There was no view of incest because there was no other family but the one started by Adam and Eve. But the fact is, is that God is all knowing.


Read this 2 parts together. Interesting.
Incest wasn't even thought of but god is all knowing, so he knew incest was a sin* but he purposely let them continue sinning. So adam and eve did not know they were sinning yet god knew and approved. So again we have the conclusion that christ died because god wanted him to, not because of people's sins.

*(if we assume he was the one that banned incest)


digs wrote:
God does know the future and He knows that choices we will make. True love is a choice, and God wants true love.


I pasted these 2 parts together. See if you can spot the silliness.
Let let me ask you, who told you god wanted true love? god?


digs wrote:
what do you mean about the first part of Genesis? Do you mean the whole book? Or the Creation story? But imo none of the books in the Bible are fake. God has preserved them because they are His Word.


So you're saying the whole stuff is correct because god preserved it? Even it is known that editions were made? some words translated into 2 meanings? that none of these were by god and in fact recorded or by 3rd parties?


digs wrote:
I know how a hypotheses is supported, but what do they teach in school? It is widely held that the big bang is fact even though it hasn't been proven and can be proven false (much like evolution) It is simply a theory that fits the worldview of biased scientists in the pursuit of logically proving that God is nonexistent, so in their lives they can become gods.


If you can prove them false, and provide a true explaination that can be supported by data, go ahead, you would be famous. If you can prove god made the world and it is supported by data, then you can get it taught in school. Go ahead


digs wrote:
Guess what? Religion is tested too, but by the individual. Religion is in the spiritual realm. You cannot study the spiritual with the physical.


Lets reuse your sentence from earlier

It is widely held by fundamental christians that god made the world even though it hasn't been proven and can be proven false (much like how carbon dating pointed out the earth as being millions of years older than the bible said) It is simply a theory that fits the worldview of biased fundamental christians in the pursuit of logiclessly proving that God exists, so in their lives they can base their self worth on a non-existent measure.


digs wrote: God might not pop up and say "here I am" to people that believe in Him, but if we have faith in Jesus Christ as Christians, God will work. Satan is a great deceiver and will confuse people spiritually, that is why we need to be reading God's word, praying, and focusing our hearts on God.


You said that god allowed incest then banned it and made it a sin. So god can change his rules at any time. What makes you think having faith in christ will work now? did he tell you? he could very well have made it so that praying to an apple is the way to heaven.

on the devil deceiving people, you know that god let people commit incest at the beginning but suddenly banned it. ever thought you got deceived and that god never banned it? that the devil sneaked that part in? that the church decided to tack it on? you know for sure god let incest happen*, maybe he wants it to continue but people got tricked and in doing so, they're going to hell for not having incest

*assuming genesis is correct
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Posted 5/12/08
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol FAIL
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Posted 5/12/08

UserNameAlpha wrote:

"You Are Dumb"- your a troll... this is a troll thread


Sir you win the game.
Posted 5/12/08
Wow... this truly is an interesting discussion but this topic is probably going to be dismissed by an idiot atheist/christian telling the other side that they are retarted/going to hell..... Most Religious arguments end up in this matter... In speaking honestly

1. The Bible has nothing over Evidence as Evidence actually proves, implies or gives some kind of indication of the happening of some event while the bible is just a book....

2. The stories in the bible are very improbable ( not impossible)

3. From a unbiased point of view.... the stories in the bible are almost completely ludicrous

4. I would appreciate it if we did not flame each other but participated in an intelligent social discussion
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Posted 5/13/08
I don judge religious matters
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Posted 5/13/08
I totally agree with you.

But agnostic is not the same as atheist. Agnostics don't say that they don't believe in God, they just want proof before they can believe in him. Like sometimes they believe that there is a higher being.
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Posted 5/13/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


digs wrote:

Mine is the Bible, I guess I can post a link to the creation story. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201;&version=31;


Who says the bible is reliable? It is certainly not more reliable than scientific evidence .


What your telling this person is that it's not real. That's probably why many people don't like those that are atheist or agnostics. How do you know that those events in the bible didn't happen? It could've but, But you don't know because there is no one that can tell you.
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Posted 5/13/08

digs wrote:

Mine is the Bible, I guess I can post a link to the creation story. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201;&version=31;


This is stupid on your part. As a christian I wouldn't go around posting links to the bible. And which bible is it? The one man made? or the supposed original?

Posting bibles is not going to make people change their religion. Being in America gives you the right to whatever belief you want to believe. And your just pushing your beliefs on other people. Just like Atheist do.
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Posted 5/13/08 , edited 5/13/08
glob: did Adam and Eve have children in Eden?
I think it was banned by Moses.
I still can't agree that something that happens means that god allows it. Do you assume a god has to intervene always? Actually he doesn't. This is clear if you read the prophets where god speaks of future punsihments and rewards, not that it will intervene directly. And not banning something does not mean it is god's will. There are a lot of things nor banned, like gasping. Are you saying that gasping is god's will, since he hasn't banend it? Should we all gasp ourselves into heaven? What are you talking about? You are laying concepts of godhood upon god, but there is no reason why it should be so. Or are you saying that a god would have to bend to our concepts of it? Sounds Terry Pratchett to me.

So you are to blame for making something imperfect? How do you know god could make something perfect? Or that humas weren't perfect untill the Fall?
Actually, if you assume that there is truth in Christianity, thenb something must be true and something must be false in theology. All churches may be wrong, but not all can be right. If we are to assume that one church is, say, 100% right. Let it be the gnostics. Then we need to bother with the minority of the christians, because they happen to be right. So we can not lay it on all the christian churches to be wrong, because one is right. They DO know the truth. So the beef can not be with all the christians, since there is some following the truth.

Maybe you have just asked stupid religious people. Maybe you just need a wise man.

My point was only that some sources have more reliability than others.

You might enjoy some extracts from a conversation between Simon ("peter") and simon magus:
Simon magus: in the same manner his (adam) creator says at the time of the fall of sodom: come let us go down and see whether or not they do according to their cry that come befores me, that I may know it (gen 18.21), thus making his ignorance notorious. And if it stands written: it repented god that he had made man (gen 6.6), then that points to a change of mind and to ingorance.
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Posted 5/13/08 , edited 5/13/08
I have never seen the word incest being used so many times...haha

@digs:


I know how a hypotheses is supported, but what do they teach in school? It is widely held that the big bang is fact even though it hasn't been proven and can be proven false (much like evolution) It is simply a theory that fits the worldview of biased scientists in the pursuit of logically proving that God is nonexistent, so in their lives they can become gods.


May I ask where did you pull such stupid conclusion?

First of all, I doubt you know how a hypothesis is supported, if you do then start using it because your previous statements just show the typical mistake people who have not been taught science make when they evaluate scientific ideas. Science has as much frauds as organized religions have, things is the scientific method allows us to be able to constantly evaluate which claims are sound, and trustworthy and which are bogus.(not so much with religion).

Ever heard of peer review? when a scientist introduces an idea or wants support the application or data becomes critically evaluated by experts in that field, if the results are important enough, those experts go out and test the claims the application claims individually to see if they are true or hold. This means that from the moment of planning to the moment of publication, that idea is subject to careful analysis and testing. This is what ensures science to be honest, objective and to maintain quality. there is no evil plan to become a god or a supreme being....please keep such silly tales away from me and everyone. Too much anime I think...

Second, Law and Theory mean something different in science than what they do in common everyday language.

In common language, Law is a rule created and enforce by people, if the rule is not obeyed a penalty follows.

A Law of nature is not a rule is a description. Laws do not govern the universe, they describe the universe so your so called conclusion that there is a pursuit to make god nonexistent and take over breaks down again.

People also use the word theory incorrectly. They use theory for what a scientist would call a hypothesis
"I have a theory of why my car wont start"

This semantic difference causes silly misunderstandings on religious people who for example, think that a scientific theory (like evolution) is merely a guess or an educated speculation or a conjecture, instead of recognizing it as a summary of conclusions drawn from a large, (in the case of evolution; huge) body of observed facts.
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