Debate on Religeon Being "the root of all evil"

This is Really freaking long, but I feel it is worth the read.
oh yes, and the Mikeybear guy is an ignorand retard, pay him no mind.




im_in_a_tight_spot April 25th, 2008 10:33 AM

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Religeon is the root of all evil

I agree with everything the person in this video says.

Religion has done nothing but hurt and destroy entire families and civilization.
Religion Robs people of happiness and places taboo's on things that should be commonly spoken about.
Religion has no benefit or purpose other than as an excuse to do horrible things such as kill your neighbors or anyone who has a different religion.
Religion keeps those who love each other apart, and makes people suffer horribly in ways they would otherwise not have to.


Religion Is The Root Of All Evil On This Earth.

mikeybear788 April 25th, 2008 10:36 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

hell yes someone finally understands relgion thank u i cant stand people who get all pissy when u diss there relgion they throw a freaking fit its redicoulus

Stark April 25th, 2008 11:04 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

I think you'll find that a good many people find religion to be comforting, and to actively say that religion can do nothing but harm is just as ignorant as the people who say that homosexuals are inevitably going to molest their children.

im_in_a_tight_spot April 25th, 2008 11:12 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Yes Stark. I realize that a great deal of people find Religion to be comforting. It gives them something to pin blame on when something goes wrong ex. "I guess that god did not mean for it to be for me..."
and who dosent like a scapegoat?
It also gives people false hope. By Praying they actually think it will increase their chances at getting what they want.
Who does not like the tase of hope?
But I dare say that The Negetives FAR out weigh the Benefits.

Socalmoongal April 25th, 2008 11:44 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

When can you say this:


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Paganism has done nothing but hurt and destroy entire families and civilization.
Paganism Robs people of happiness and places taboo's on things that should be commonly spoken about.
Paganism has no benefit or purpose other than as an excuse to do horrible things such as kill your neighbors or anyone who has a different religion.
Paganism keeps those who love each other apart, and makes people suffer horribly in ways they would otherwise not have to.
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Then there is a true debate, but right now, when you use religion you talk about every faith on this planet. Now are you perhaps just talking about a few particular religions, or every single one. And if every single one, could you honestly come up with answers to every one of them on how horrible they are?

im_in_a_tight_spot April 25th, 2008 12:22 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Socalmoongal (Post 1185979)
When can you say this:



Then there is a true debate, but right now, when you use religion you talk about every faith on this planet. Now are you perhaps just talking about a few particular religions, or every single one. And if every single one, could you honestly come up with answers to every one of them on how horrible they are?
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All Faiths that are referred to as a Religion are Destructive and "evil"
When people gather in Worship of someone or something, There is no good that can come out of it. The only thing that worship effectivly does is lead to conflict with others who do not worship the same object or entity as them.

Example:

Spoiler!

If Group A worships a Gazelle
And Group B Woships a Lion

Group A & B will be forever fighting each other to protect their respective Divine Being.

However, If Both Groups A&B agree that the Lion is the one to Worship and they Both Worship the same Divine Being, they will forever be in conflict with each other because of how they chose to worship that Being.



Religion Causes Mistrust of others who do not share the same faith.
For Example:

Spoiler!

Someone who is a Christian will easily trust another Christian, Because that is the "Christian way"
But A Christian will not easily trust a Bhuddist, because they are different and in the Christian way "Damned to hell" for not accepting Jesus.

This is much in the same way that the Jewish, who live in communities amoungst themselves where outsiders are seldom welcome would in no way Trust a Catholic.



Religion Breeds Hate and Mistrust.

Look at Israel,
EVERYONE is fighting over this "Holy Land of Worship"
why? Because of Worship they all feel that they NEED it to be closer to their respective divine beings.
All the killing that they do over it is rediculous :ermm:

If it was up to me I would just move em all out, Nuke the place 40+ times and turn it into a radioactive pile of dust. :rofl:
if they still want to fight over a radioactive crater of dust... then that just further proves my point.

People should have role models like Jesus, But to worship someone IS IDIOTIC.
He is Dead. There is NO way he is going to One day "Jump out of your closet, do a dance, and tell you that all your problems are solved" -Bill
If people only worshiped themselves, as it should be, The world would be a much better place. not to mention ever so much more efficiant.

Burn April 25th, 2008 12:33 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

If people only worshipped themselves, do you seriously think that there would be less conflict on this planet?

I disagree with your idea that religion inherently causes mistrust between people from different religions; the New Testament preaches a philosophy of love and temperance, for example. If a Christian wishes to 'mistrust' someone solely because of their religion, then isn't that the individual's fault, rather than the religion's?

I'm intrigued as to why you think a religion such as Buddhism could be viewed as destructive or 'evil', though.

mikeybear788 April 25th, 2008 12:37 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

ok i think a map should be made of witch religion wants to kill the other muslims are the easy one they wanna kill everyone including themselves but someone wanna make a map? maybe show poeple with a graph or map so they get it thro there heads why religoin is evil

im_in_a_tight_spot April 25th, 2008 12:38 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Burn (Post 1186045)
If people only worshipped themselves, do you seriously think that there would be less conflict on this planet?

I disagree with your idea that religion inherently causes mistrust between people from different religions; the New Testament preaches a philosophy of love and temperance, for example. If a Christian wishes to 'mistrust' someone solely because of their religion, then isn't that the individual's fault, rather than the religion's?

I'm intrigued as to why you think a religion such as Buddhism could be viewed as destructive or 'evil', though.
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The Philosophy's Of Buddhism, Taoism, Confuscionism, etc.
Are Not Harmful or destructive.
In fact, I Recommend EVEYONE just drop their religions and begin learning the teachings of Tao.
If everyone were to convert to the Philosophy of Tao, the world would be as close to perfect as is possible.

I see Buddhism as destructive only in the form a a Religion which Worships.
I am not saying that what religions try to teach for the most part is "evil" but the act of Worship itself is the root which "evil" stems out from.
Worship in religion And the restraints that are imposed on people by that religion (i.e. No Pre-marital Sex)
are causing more pain and suffering then they prevent.
If pre-Marital sex were not so frowned upon by the Religious community, We would have Teen health centers, Sex awareness week, TV ads on sex and information readily available and provided by our schools.
Not to mention a Sexual counselor in every Highschool.

Burn April 25th, 2008 12:44 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by mikeybear788 (Post 1186052)
ok i think a map should be made of witch religion wants to kill the other muslims are the easy one they wanna kill everyone including themselves but someone wanna make a map? maybe show poeple with a groph or map so they get it thro there heads why religoin is evil
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Except muslims that wish to kill 'everyone including themselves' are the exception, not the rule. That's like saying that atheist societies are inherently destructive because the Soviet Union was officially atheist.


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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1186055)
I see Buddhism as destructive only in the form a a Religion which Worships.
I am not saying that what religions try to teach for the most part is "evil" but the act of Worship itself is the root which "evil" stems out from.
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But why? If I choose to worship some intangible deity, not affecting anyone else with this choice, how is that 'evil'? It does not necessarily lead me to conflict with someone worshipping a different deity, or the same deity in a different way.
mikeybear788 April 25th, 2008 12:53 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

it is evil due to the fact that people are evil once they get u to belive in there made up god they slowly brain wash you to the point were u would give your life to somthing that does not exsist hell poeple give alot of money to their place of worship the leaders of whatever religion needs to brainwash these people to stay in power and to be able to pay for there stuff its all for power these religoins want power

Corello April 25th, 2008 12:56 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by mikeybear788 (Post 1186052)
ok i think a map should be made of witch religion wants to kill the other muslims are the easy one they wanna kill everyone including themselves but someone wanna make a map? maybe show poeple with a graph or map so they get it thro there heads why religoin is evil
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Excuse me?

Not only is this remark extremely ignorant, offensive, and false, it's also a misinterpretation of what happens in the Muslim world and the rest of the world.

A majority of Muslims are peaceful people who follow their faith with reason and dedication. There's a relatively small number who become jihadists, terrorists, suicide bombers, or related figures. Much of Islam is embracing peace and coexistance.

Please think before you speak.

As for religion being the "root of all evil", I would like to point out that religion has been the driving force behind many relief and disaster recovery missions, it's given uncountable amounts of money and basic necessities to the poor and underpriviledged, and it's provided ethical and moral grounds for people to live their lives in peace and to avoid conflicts. Only when religion mixes into politics or become radicalized is it dangerous and evil.

Vessol April 25th, 2008 01:00 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

I disagree that religion is the root of all evil.
Because evil is a subjective term, what is evil? What does evil mean? Why is it evil?
Maybe saying "Religion is the root of all conflict" might be more proper, but even then I would disagree.
I think it is human nature that is the root of all conflict.
Religion has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

ChaosShadow April 25th, 2008 03:04 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Uhh, no.
Humanity is the root of all evil.

Religion is just an excuse for them to act like retards.

TigerTank77 April 25th, 2008 03:28 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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This is much in the same way that the Jewish, who live in communities amongst themselves where outsiders are seldom welcome would in no way Trust a Catholic.
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Please, oh please tell me where you based this information from, because you obviously have never been to a jewish community. I used to live in one, and I can tell you, and you can document me as a primary source, that Jewish communities are not paranoid or hermit like. And while we may not agree with Catholics, it does NOT mean we don't trust them.

Randomly pointing stereotypical accusations that have no factual base what so ever is not wise.

BigBL87 April 25th, 2008 04:30 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by ChaosShadow (Post 1186251)
Uhh, no.
Humanity is the root of all evil.

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Quoted for truth.

Even from a Christian perspective, I think that is true (i.e. the Fall and such).

If you don't believe in a faith, Humanity is still the root of all evil. Because, if there is no greater power, we determine what evil is. Evil cannot exist without our definition of it (again, assuming no God) because Evil is a concept, and a concept doesn't exist until it has been conceptualized.

People like to cite religion as negative because it allows people to be controlled, which admittedly it can do sometimes. But, the same criticisms that you make of religion can be made of any kind of government as well.

Vessol April 25th, 2008 05:07 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Religion has done a lot of good and bad things.
There are too many things to list here, but there are some great things done in a God's name and there are some horrible atrocities.
Both acts, 'I' think are humans and humans alone.

naturegirl April 25th, 2008 05:27 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

i used to think that, but that is because religion is sometimes used wrongly and irreligiously. Religion actually changes peoples lives and gives them something to live for. I decided to "convert" to wicca because it gave me answers to things that i never understood and which other religions often saw as being satanistic, when actually i think it has made me a better person in a way no other religion has done. Other religions also have good aspects i.e. the salvation army, muslim aid etc. Belief in a higher power can make a person less proud and make them see things in a better way. i'm sorry if you disagree with what i am saying.

R.K. April 25th, 2008 05:48 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

"Evil" is such a relative term... Killing is evil right? What about accidently killing smb in self defence protecting your own life?
Religion is used as a foundation for a lot of conflict in our world though

Elf April 25th, 2008 06:59 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

You're making some very close-minded, ignorant assumptions here.


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Someone who is a Christian will easily trust another Christian, Because that is the "Christian way"
But A Christian will not easily trust a Bhuddist, because they are different and in the Christian way "Damned to hell" for not accepting Jesus.

This is much in the same way that the Jewish, who live in communities amoungst themselves where outsiders are seldom welcome would in no way Trust a Catholic.
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What the heck? This is such a disgusting assumption I don't even know where to start. Wait, I do. Mass generalization of entire groups of people will get you nothing but ignorance, and you'll probably wind up offending a ton of people in the process.

Maybe you've forgotten that religion can be extremely beneficial in people's lives, too? It comforts them, gets them through difficult times, helps them forgive others, and some people find it helpful in living good lives. The majority of religions encourage being a good person, and promote a fair amount of good values. If people choose to act differently, or use their religions to hate or persecute others, that's their fault. Not the religion's.
Genie April 25th, 2008 07:07 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

People are evil. Religion is a tool used as an excuse to do some bad things.

Religious differences don't cause a rapist to attack a woman. Nor do they cause disputes over land or secret liasons with your neighbours spouse. Not that either of these are "evil", but jealousy and greed are the culprits for evil.

Batgirl April 25th, 2008 07:16 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

I don't think religion is bad. It offers comfort to people, and helps them through rough times. Sure, some people pervert its teachings into something terrible to harm others, but just because you see one or two bad representatives of a group doesn't mean everyone who is a part of that group is bad. It's like saying just because you picked a rotten apple that all apples are rotten.

R.K. April 25th, 2008 07:23 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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It offers comfort to people, and helps them through rough times.
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Just as a doctor comforts a person on their death bed that they are cured. It's comforting, but it doesnt make it the truth or good in the long run

im_in_a_tight_spot April 25th, 2008 07:46 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by R.K. (Post 1186606)
Just as a doctor comforts a person on their death bed that they are cured. It's comforting, but it doesnt make it the truth or good in the long run
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This is a very true statment and a good point.

But My Beef with religion right now, As those of you who read my R&D thread know. Is that it is getting in the way of my happiness.
And thats a bitch. :mad:

Religion has gotten in the way of several things in my life, and looking at my friends lives as well... and things that have happened throughout history... Religion has done nothing but get in the way.
Not to mention it gets in the way of progress because "Stem cell research is un-holy" amoung other things.

You can call me Ignorant if you wish. I have my right to ignorance and to hate all Religion. :hehe:

Kaltek April 25th, 2008 11:28 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1185910)
Religion has done nothing but hurt and destroy entire families and civilization.
Religion Robs people of happiness and places taboo's on things that should be commonly spoken about.
Religion has no benefit or purpose other than as an excuse to do horrible things such as kill your neighbors or anyone who has a different religion.
Religion keeps those who love each other apart, and makes people suffer horribly in ways they would otherwise not have to.

Religion Is The Root Of All Evil On This Earth.
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Can we say the world would be a less evil place without religion? No, we do not have a control to base this assumption off of.

We can say that we would not have the Thomas Aquinas, Descartes, Leibniz, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Sartre that we have come to respect because Christianity would not be there to influence them in a secular. Those people alone are good that religion has created.

Religion makes people happier: religious people are happier (I have no idea how they can possibly enumerate joy but I add this for statistical value).

Religion obviously does not exist to create violence because within holy texts there is usually statements of denigration of murder, thievery, &c.


And yours is emotional bias. Scientists say never drive angry, I say never philosophize angry; you just come up with stupidity.

Vessol April 25th, 2008 11:52 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Kaltek (Post 1186889)
Can we say the world would be a less evil place without religion? No, we do not have a control to base this assumption off of.

We can say that we would not have the Thomas Aquinas, Descartes, Leibniz, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Sartre that we have come to respect because Christianity would not be there to influence them in a secular. Those people alone are good that religion has created.

Religion makes people happier: religious people are happier (I have no idea how they can possibly enumerate joy but I add this for statistical value).

Religion obviously does not exist to create violence because within holy texts there is usually statements of denigration of murder, thievery, &c.


And yours is emotional bias. Scientists say never drive angry, I say never philosophize angry; you just come up with stupidity.
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That is the best post I have read on any forum for a damn long time. Huge kudos and very well written.

nadiathenotuninsane April 26th, 2008 12:08 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

It's seems like everyone is bombing for peace and fucking for virginity. Even Jesus was killed because he stood against the religious at the time, because he was trying to show everyone a better way then religion. And what did they go and do? Start a fucking religion after him.

Wi-Wei man, Wu-Wei.

im_in_a_tight_spot April 26th, 2008 07:55 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by nadiathenotuninsane (Post 1186932)
It's seems like everyone is bombing for peace and fucking for virginity. Even Jesus was killed because he stood against the religious at the time, because he was trying to show everyone a better way then religion. And what did they go and do? Start a fucking religion after him.

Wi-Wei man, Wu-Wei.
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:thumbsup: Thank you for saying something that I forgot to add. Seems to have slipped my mind. :whistling

Burn April 26th, 2008 08:17 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1186658)
Not to mention it gets in the way of progress because "Stem cell research is un-holy" amoung other things.
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Not all of those who are religious are against stem cell research. Not all of those who are against stem cell research are religious. The arguments against it are somewhat broader than 'it's unholy'.

yaknowlykwateva April 26th, 2008 08:20 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by mikeybear788 (Post 1186052)
muslims are the easy one they wanna kill everyone including themselves
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That is the single most idiotic thing i have ever read. how dare you go criticize large groups of people due to the stupid things done by the extremist minority. Muslim people are peaceful and calm and are disgusted by those extremists that do shit under their name. They do not look down on others if they arent of the same faith, its in their koran, it has verses about loving christians and all people.

It's people like you and your stupid narrow minded views that bring conflict into this world, by singling out people and dividing communities. Get an education and grow up, you're embarrassing yourself.
Khadra April 26th, 2008 09:21 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

There would be just as much evil in the world without religion. People always seem to find an excuse to discriminate and hurt others.

moses916 April 26th, 2008 09:26 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

I could blame beautiful women for the evil in this world. Did not mighty emperors go to battle over their wives or other women? But I won't blame women for that matter or any matter at all.

FanaticReader April 29th, 2008 09:46 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Most people here are saying "no, that isn't evil, this it..." But like Vessol pointed out, what is "evilness", and why does its presence exist in our contiousness? I'm going to quote a site on, my personal beliefs of Taoism, and how I see the concept of "evil".

Why Evil?
To understand the Taoist notion of good and evil, it is important to distinguish between the "concept" of evil versus the "reality" of evil.

As a concept, Taoist do not hold the position of good against evil; rather they see the interdependence of all dualities. So when one labels something as a good, one automatically creates evil. That is, all concepts necessarily are based on one aspect vs. another; if a concept were to have only one aspect, it would be nonsensical.

The reality of good and evil is that all actions contain some aspect of each. This is represented in the t'ai chi, more commonly referred to as the yin-yang symbol. Any action would have some negative (yin) and some positive (yang) aspect to it. Taoists believe that nature is a continual balance between yin and yang, and that any attempt to go toward one extreme or the other will be ineffective, self-defeating, and short-lived. When people interfere with the natural balance by trying to impose their egoistic plans, they will not succeed; rather, the non-egoistic person allows nature to unfold, watching it ebb and flow from good to bad and back again.

Another way of understanding this is that the sage person understands the reality of good and evil, whereas the fool concentrates on the concept of good and evil. The sage knows that any evil will soon be replaced by good, the fool is forever fruitlessly trying to eliminate evil. Similar to the Buddhist concept of Sunyata ("the void"), good and evil are just empty conceptual abstractions that have no permanent independent existence.

So basically, I see it that humans create evil by creating morals, and to say that religion is the root of it--being such an umbrella term itself--is quite closed-minded. Yes, organized religion does manipulate people en mass, but also brings hope to them. It has brought war, but it has also brought peace. It has created magnificant works of architechure, but has also destroyed as much.

im_in_a_tight_spot April 30th, 2008 10:21 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

...
http://www.adventurepostoffice.com/c...ghts/th025.jpg

Xujhan May 6th, 2008 01:06 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

(Disclaimer: everything in this post is merely my opinion.)

Religion is not the root of all evil.
Human nature is not the root of all evil.
Humanity itself is not evil in any marginal way.

All this because "evil" simply does not exist. In much the same way that perfect geometric figures cannot exist outside of the imagination, "good" and "evil" too only have meaning in concept. Were I to find a child on the street and strangle them, I would not be evil, nor would the act have been.

Good and evil only really have substance in religion, where entire ways of life are built upon them. Outside of that context, they are simply a convenient, simple way to describe and discuss an impossibly complicated set of concepts.

In that sense, I suppose religion could be called the root of all evil; not because it is the cause of it, but rather the cause of the concept. In any event, most atheists I've spoken with on the topic agree that good and evil have no real meaning or value, and I'd imagine a fair number of the more liberal religious people share that mindset.

That said, I do believe that the world would be a generally happier, friendlier place if there were no religions. Not because religion is in direct opposition of happiness, but if circumstances change such that the world is truly a happy place, then religion will become unnecessary. Religion, at its root, is a method by which people can cope with their fear of the unknown, and of things they can't understand. For the world to truly become happy, people will have to learn to to let the unknown fuel their curiosity, not their fear.

marleebob May 6th, 2008 01:51 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

go to this site: if you really think about religon:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com

ChaosShadow May 6th, 2008 12:43 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

While I wouldn't claim that religion is evil, I'd ask everyone to observe the events of the Dark Ages(witch hunting, religious discrimination, scientific suppression).

Maybe it's not really religion being a source of evil, but rather of ignorance. And ignorant people generally act like clueless morons.

Right now the world is in a better state because that blind faith is tempered by a more reasoned outlook of the world(hey, at least most people now know the earth isn't flat).

Interesting to read, but I just couldn't get myself to read all of it. It certainly is fascinating, but is there anything to discuss?

people in this discussion are so busy debating that they fail to realize that their posts always have loose ends... guy A sez this.. and guy B sez that... then here comes the whole alphabet... lmao...

lol,yessir. It gets better though.
People are starting to get their Shit together.
By the way, The "Im_in_a_Tight_Spot" guy is me >_>

ilytodeath May 8th, 2008 08:32 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Religion does a lot more than destroying things. Yes, it does cause a lot of destruction and conflicts but that's not all. A LOT of people find comfort in religion and that is why they are religious in the first place most of the time.

I think that you should look at many more different perspectives than just ONE.

im_in_a_tight_spot May 8th, 2008 08:36 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

To Futher Prove My Point, My Main focus is Christianity and the different Religeons that have branched off of it.

This article was written by Joe E. Holman and other contributers.

"This has been created for the purpose of debunking Christianity. We are ex-Christians, ex-ministers, and even ex-apologists for the Christian faith. We are now freethinkers, skeptics, agnostics, and atheists. With the diversity of our combined strengths we seek to debunk Christianity.


Smith

The year was 1928. The place was Arkansas. Charles Lee Smith, President of the American Association for the Advancement of Atheism was arrested “on charges of blasphemy.” His crime? Passing out atheist tracts in a local town. After spending one night in jail, Smith was released with one charge dismissed while the other was never set for trial. Just like the famous blasphemy trial of C.B. Reynolds decades earlier, Mr. Smith was just one more victim of the American legal system, hijacked by Christianity.


Inoculation

The year was 1722. The date, July 8th. The place, St. Andrew’s Church in London, England. A bold, determined preacher walked up to his pulpit and delivered a heartfelt sermon entitled, “Against the Dangerous and Sinful Practice of Inoculation.” The sermon was published and became widely famous. His text, Job 2:7, “So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.” His contention, that Job was suffering from Smallpox (the epidemic of the time) and yet he endured it, and therefore, so should Christians the onslaught of Smallpox in his day. The masses took this advice. Smallpox killed and maimed and ravaged hundreds of thousands of people. It spread and spread some more. The new and experimental scientific practice of inoculation was an abomination, which the preachers proclaimed, “usurped God’s providential authority.” This preacher was none other than the Rev. Edmund Massey, who pleaded from the bottom of his heart, along with scores of Catholic and Protestant church leaders everywhere, not to tolerate the “diabolical operation.” God wanted man to suffer for his sins and to endure his punishment, so said University of Cambridge’s, Reverend Ramsden no less vigorously. He and other Bostonians formed the Anti-Vaccination Society in 1798. The result, an incredible death toll among both Catholics and Protestants, particularly the Catholics, some of whom almost came to bloodshed out of the pious desire to trust in God and not let some physicians make the procedure mandatory…

“Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:” (James 5:14)

“And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.” (2 Chron. 16:12)

So there you have it – God does not recommend amoxicillin! It is not hard to see what God wants us to do when we’re sick. Very few dissenting voices expressed themselves, until later when yet a greater number of lives were lost because of this foolish zeal.

Bruno

February 17, 1600. Giordano Bruno, an Italian philosopher, astronomer, ex-priest, and freethinker, was burned at the stake for the crime of heresy. His Copernicanism, Arianism, his contentions that all churches should tolerate their schismatic disagreements, along with his somewhat materialistic beliefs that the universe was infinite and contained many worlds, could not be tolerated. He really crossed the line when he decided Jesus was nothing more than a skillful magician! Talking like that back then would get you killed. Bruno’s defiance and distinct individuality made him seas of enemies. On May 22, 1592, he was arrested, and by January of 1593, his trial, which lasted almost 7 years, began. He was tortured and delivered up to be killed, repudiating images of the cross along the way. Lest any be seduced by his heretical words, a large spike was driven through his jaw, just after proclaiming his last words. He then painfully awaited his silent consummation by fire. Giordano was a man bigger than the time in which he lived. The world was not worthy.

Servetus

The year was 1553. On October 27th, Michael Servetus was burned at the stake for the crime of heresy. He committed serious “crimes,” disbelieving in the trinity, dabbling in astrology, and denying the need and validity of the practice of infant baptism. His irate, argumentative tone, much like Bruno, made him plenty of enemies among both Protestants and Catholics. Having been burned in effigy after escaping from Roman authorities in Vienna, he fled to Geneva where he was spotted by reformer, John Calvin, who had vowed to God that the heretic, Servetus, would not leave the city alive! True to Calvin’s vow, it was not the Catholics who killed him, but the Geneva Council, who decided he should meet his maker by way of the flames.

The impenitent, stubborn Servetus soon lost his pride as the slow-burning flames engulfed his body. Blood curdling screams for mercy were rumored to be heard throughout the crowd of onlookers, and thus, ended the legacy of a brilliant mathematician and quite able physician.

Corrupt and scandalous

It does not take Solomonic wisdom to detect my running theme -- that Christianity is an albatross to humankind, this small list being scarcely a microscopic fraction of what could be cited to prove the point. It should be noted that these are modern and not-so-modern examples of Christian oppression. They emanate from Catholic and Protestant groups, and therefore, cannot be so easily wept under the rug of willful ignorance by suggesting that the above examples were merely the result of “false Christianity.” For centuries, believers have been disagreeing with each other, telling each other that they are wrong on this and that, and therein lies the problem when a believer tries to deny that Group X is a “True Christian” group, but not Group Y. The dispute on what constitutes “genuine” Christianity is as unsolvable a puzzle as partisan politics.

Christianity is not a religion of progress, nor is it a religion of open-mindedness. It does not tolerate, nor appreciate free inquiry. It condemns it outright (I Timothy 6:20-21). It sets up the classic clergy-laity system by setting up few as teachers (See James 3:1) and the rest as dumbbells, members who sit like wooden Indians and take in what their spiritual leaders tell them. Like the ancient mystery cults, which were so common in New Testament times and before, Christianity claims infallibility and thereby vilifies everyone and every school of thought to disagree with it…

“If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.” (I Cor. 16:22)

“If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 1:10-11)

Without the aide of an evolving, progressive culture, Christianity would still have us in the dark ages, prattling off the pious nonsense of Tertullian…

“The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the devil's gateway: you are the unsealer of that (forbidden) tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert-that is, death-even the Son of God had to die.”
- Tertullian, “On Women and Fallen Angels,” Book I

Without the aide of an evolving, progressive culture, Christianity would still have us forbidding surgery lest we defile a dead body and dishonor God. Mankind would have no doubt progressed medically beyond where we are today had we had access to biological experimentation 700 years ago. But in exchange for life-saving medical advances, we are given the sanctified decisions of church councils. In 1299 A.D., Pope Boniface VIII issued a papal bull that decreed the penalties for anyone with the ungodly gall to dissect a corpse -- excommunication and possible imprisonment. The hurt that this has done to the fields of anatomy and biology is quite incalculable, but I’m sure Boniface felt more than justified in this move and even felt he could support it with the Bible…

“Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime:” (Amos 2:1)

Christianity produces intolerance and suspicion and a dreaded, undying fear of change. As we have seen, it opposes science, it opposes medicine, it opposes logic, and even common sense. It makes man’s way difficult, burdened down with needless concerns and worries. It lays at the feet of society an alarmist mentality of spotting trouble where there is none and always being ready to reject sensible solutions to problems. These handful of examples, if nothing else, show us that when mankind is morally motivated and indoctrinated by a religion that claims to be “infallible truth,” the tendency to bind those “truths” on others always ends up being hurtful.

I find it interesting how Christians will so readily site Newton and Galileo as examples of Christians demonstrating scientific refinement, and then silently gloss over the long, cold, dark years of bibles being chained to pulpits, women being forced into convents, the mentally ill being locked up and tortured for fear of their being possessed, and forbidding marriages in local towns because of expressed defiance from the common people. The Church expressed her complete contentment with the “Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water” theory of elements as taught by the ancient Greeks, until the likes of Priestly and Scheele came along and set us straight on the matter with the groundbreaking discovery of oxygen. Christians are every bit as capable of anything everyone else is, but my question is, if Christianity promotes science and free inquiry, why did it take Christianity many centuries to produce only a handful of great thinkers? The answer is, it didn’t. Christianity has never directly produced a single freethinker. Mankind was finally breaking away from the stranglehold that the infamously oppressive Catholic Church had on the world, and with that came flourishing minds who could begin to experiment and question and think on their own without fear of the guillotine (or as much fear of it, at least). As the Church began to lose grip of the world, slowly but surely, objective learning could once again be exercised. Christianity remained, by far, the most dominant religion throughout Europe, so it would be a shock if at least some scientists and thinkers were not of the Christian Faith. But those good scientific minds were scientists and Christians – they were not scientists because they were Christians. We cannot give credit where credit is not due.

Christianity, unleashed on the world, has done many terrible things throughout the ages, far outweighing any good it managed to accomplish. Only when faith in the church’s infallible dogmas began to decline did we see increases in liberty. Today, the church contains only a glimmer of her former, snarling, mad dog image. To make better inroads infiltrating societies, she now uses the stealth approach.

This, however, is the freethinker’s perspective. It is not the believer’s perspective. The proud, white, middle-class, Protestant of today is utterly perplexed at how the freethought movement could dare suggest that Christianity is a vice against humanity. They live in their own Christianized world and attribute every little semblance of pleasantness and decency to their God. Christianity takes credit for everything even remotely good and runs away, like a caught-cheating husband, from any hint of bad publicity. As Woolsey Teller so eloquently put it…

“But leave it to Christianity to bedeck itself in stolen plumage. After blocking the cultural progress of the world for hundreds of years, it now poses as the champion of civilization, when, in plain truth, its behavior has been like that of the chameleon, changing colors and blending with the background whenever it is expedient. Let a people gather a few crumbs of culture in spite of Christianity and Christianity will claim the credit.

Christianity upheld slavery for over a thousand years, yet no sooner was emancipation achieved than it posed as "the black man's friend". It spat on woman suffrage, then, when woman's rights were won, it posed as the "liberator" of women. It fought tooth and nail the doctrine of evolution, but now assures us (from "liberal" pulpits, at least) that there never was any "real" conflict between science and religion. It opposed anesthesia in child-birth; it now proclaims it as God's "gift" to womankind. Before the war, it worshiped "the Prince of Peace"; it is now singing the song, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”
- Woolsey Teller, Essays of an Atheist, “Chameleonic Christianity.”

This is why Christianity stands condemned in the council of freethinking humanity as a mischievous trespasser, a migrant troublemaker, stirring up ruckus and unrest everywhere she goes. With useless regulations and hindrances, it does nothing but crush the life out of an observant, budding, and experimental society. Like a cruel, dry, second grade teacher who berates her students for innocently choosing to color and doodle outside of the lines, Christianity is a detriment to the progress of any society. Christianity operates by manipulation, befriending the mighty, seizing their power, and when finished using them, casting them out like spoiled goods. Just like a crooked, but sharply-dressed, well-poised politician, Christianity vainly points to a bright, appealing future, replete with promises of a Utopian tomorrow, while cleverly maneuvering their believers to keep from noticing the plentitude of horrendous injustices, allegations, and scandals of the past."

ilytodeath May 8th, 2008 08:54 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

^ You can't summarize an entire religion based on just a few events that took place.
You're only representing those who took Christianity in the wrong way.
There are plenty of people who are at peace with those who don't believe in the same god as them. How would you explain Pope John Paul II(RIP) who made several visits to muslim countries, respecting their beliefs? Isn't that some peace?
Even if it's the same god, the two religions are always in conflict however John Paul II was an exception.

Also, just as a reference to the slavery thing and Christians, there were plenty of people who supported slavery who weren't religious. There's no way of knowing the whole story. I think that you are generalizing far too much. Besides, barely any of the ideas of slavery rooted from religion anyway. People just felt superior and felt like they needed people to do the dirty things for them.

im_in_a_tight_spot May 8th, 2008 09:29 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

"We can only go by what Christian doctrine teaches and what Christian believers say..." ilytodeath "...Christian doctrine, as it is informed by the books of the Old and New Testaments, make it clear that non-belief in the Christian god as such is evil, and that "unbelievers" are "at enmity" with its god. There is no affirmation of man's right to exist for his own sake in Christian doctrine, and non-Christians are referred to as despicable reprobates which "the Father" will cast into an eternal hell to be tormented for ever, all for simply governing their minds by their conscience, honestly admitting that they do not believe the hocus-pocus of these religious teachings. The bible promotes a primitive philosophy, one which is unfit for man's life on earth (the ideal it offers is life after death in a magic kingdom beyond the grave), and which nowhere prohibits enslavement or the initiation of the use of force. It teaches that witches, rebellious children and worshippers of rival gods be taken without the city and stoned. Many believers today (I can provide quotes if you like) in fact advocate the execution of "heretics." In essence, this hideous worldview views the honest man as an enemy, having divided men into two opposing collectives: the chosen vs. the damned. Christians of course, having accepted this false dichotomy, prefer to number themselves among the chosen while apparently being satisfied by viewing everyone else as "damned." Meanwhile, when it comes to providing you as an individual with the rational principles you need in order to guide your choices and actions, Christianity leaves you out in the cold. Consequently you have to borrow from wisdom of "the natural man" as you endeavor to live in his realm the only way one can: on its terms. So why be a Christian?"

Why be a christian indeed?
What is the point?
It would seem the today's christians are raised from birth to blindly follow all the church says and BLINDLY follow their wishes unwaveringly.
I have never met or heard of ANYONE converting to christianity from any other religeon or non-religeon. I realize that this does not mean that people do not convert, but the number must be quite small. (not for their lack of trying. Christians are ALWAYS trying to convert EVERYONE)
I Have however heard of MANY people Leaving Christianity once they finally "Wake up" and stop being mindless slaves to a faith which is REDICULOUS.


"On the other hand, many Christians will point out that they do not agree with other Christians on many of these issues, thus underscoring the fact that there is no uniformity in the Christian body. Mt. 12:25 provides Christianity's own epitaph in this regard: "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." Again, why be a Christian?"

Why be a christian?
I ask yet again, what good does it do?
If it does indeed do any good at all, does it not do much greater harm?

"I live, move and have my being in my Self, and I am wholly at peace with this fact. But many Christians are not prepared to resign themselves to the matter with a mere "so be it." They lust after authority over other minds, for they are threatened by their very existence. They want to control what they fear, which is why they formulate such elaborate systems of theology. By defining their god to the most infinitesimal degree, they effectively put their god in a straightjacket where it can do them no harm."


-Dawson


A Christian Said -
"I am Christian. I don't think that being atheist means that you are a demon or that you should be burned at the stake. That is where your problem lies... You group all christians together and assume that we all feel the same way. Just as many christians feel the way you said, we don't ALL feel that way. If you find your peace in something else, so be it. I will think about you, pray for you and hope that maybe someday, you will come to know the comfort of a God who loves you in spite of any doubts you may have. Please, even though you have opinions, keep your mind open to the possibility that maybe we are all a little wrong. If the answers were supposed to be clear, then they would be. However, we are left with uncertainties that only faith can bring peace about. Good luck and God bless."
-Jennifer

Christians...
ALWAYS TRYING TO CONVERT EVERYONE AND FORCE THEM TO ABIDE BY THEIR BELIEFS!


Once a christian demonizes someone they are no longer a person to them. You can then torture and burn him at the stake if you have the political power.

What some Christians fail to see is that when they demonize us and treat us disrespectfully at Debunking Christianity they have ceased to see us as people too. We are condemned to their hell and can only be saved by accepting Their ways.

The only thing that keeps them from torturing and killing us is political power.
But they're too stupid to see this, or they are willfully ignorant of it. :rolleyes:

The point is...
People need to take off their ****ing blindfolds and look beyond religeon, to make the world a Happier and progressive place.

ilytodeath May 8th, 2008 09:47 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

I know for a fact that not all Christians FORCE their belief on the non-believers. I agree with a lot of what you have found, however, I still don't think that the RELIGION itself is what cuases so much trouble. It's HOW people interpret the religion.
Again, taking Christianity into account (just because it is the religion I have studied the most), it never explicitely states that Christians should kill and disrespect those who don't believe in God but try to guide them to God.

A lot of people misinterpret the religion but a lot of people don't misinterpret.
Overall, I think that a lot of the religious scriptures and guidelines are misleading for a lot of people and people are able to twist and bend the words to work at their advantage.

The problem does not lie with the religion itself, it lies with the people's minds.

Manarius May 8th, 2008 11:29 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1203409)
Why be a christian indeed?
What is the point?
It would seem the today's christians are raised from birth to blindly follow all the church says and BLINDLY follow their wishes unwaveringly.
I have never met or heard of ANYONE converting to christianity from any other religeon or non-religeon. I realize that this does not mean that people do not convert, but the number must be quite small. (not for their lack of trying. Christians are ALWAYS trying to convert EVERYONE)
I Have however heard of MANY people Leaving Christianity once they finally "Wake up" and stop being mindless slaves to a faith which is REDICULOUS.
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I didn't even bother quoting the rest of your post because it just further proves your incompetence.

If you knew anything about Christianity and Christians who aren't stupid ignorant fools, you'd know that all the things you said are completely misconstrued.

The problem here is not religion, the problem here is what people do because of it. Religion is not the root of all evil, what people do to each other is the root of all evil.

But, you're not going to listen anyways. You're blinded by the ignorance of atheism. So, by saying "Oh, damn Christians and their converting people" are you not trying to convert people by saying that Christianity sucks?

Thought so.

im_in_a_tight_spot May 8th, 2008 11:34 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Manarius (Post 1203491)
I didn't even bother quoting the rest of your post because it just further proves your incompetence.
If you knew anything about Christianity and Christians who aren't stupid ignorant fools, you'd know that all the things you said are completely misconstrued.

The problem here is not religion, the problem here is what people do because of it. Religion is not the root of all evil, what people do to each other is the root of all evil.

But, you're not going to listen anyways. You're blinded by the ignorance of atheism. So, by saying "Oh, damn Christians and their converting people" are you not trying to convert people by saying that Christianity sucks?
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You say that I am Incompetent, but could the same not be said of you?
You are defending a faith that is no more than a series of contradictions.

You say I am Blinded by the "ignorance" of Atheism.
You sir are sadly mistaken, I am a Taoist. Not an Atheist.

And No, I am not nessessarily attempting to convert anyone. People can follow the god/religeon they want.
What I am trying to do is remove their figurative blindfold. If they wish to continue following the faith of their choice... that is just that, Their Choice I feel better knowing that their eyes have been opened and that they can view it all in a new light.

Xujhan May 8th, 2008 01:27 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Manarius: You're earning yourself quite a reputation in my house. ^^

Personally, I have no issue at all with the majority of Christians, who are by and large as decent a folk as any other. There are those who abuse it, but even were they not Christian they would likely find something else to abuse in its stead.

So, personally, I don't think the people are the problem. Good people will be good, as a general rule, and bad will be bad. My issues are with the religion itself, not those who practise it. In a nutshell, here's why:

If I recall my mythology correctly, God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Later, when Eve was alone, Lucifer goaded her into eating from the tree, and it turn to convince Adam to eat as well. In retaliation, both Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden by God for their disobedience. Also, when they ate, they became aware of their nakedness and were ashamed of it.

Now, that's my recollection. It's been a few years since I actually read that section of the bible, so it's possible I've got something wrong. If that error is significant, you can probably disregard at least some of the rest of what I have to say.

First, God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. At that point, they were innocent and ignorant, as children. God wanted them to remain that way, rather than to gain wisdom and understanding (essentialy, to attain adulthood). From this, it seems that God considers wisdom to be a flaw, and ignorance to be a virtue. This, more than anything else, is when I take considerable exception to in Christianity. I absolutely cannot fathom how wisdom can be considered a flaw, or ignorance a virtue. Ignorance is the essence of childhood, and it is the very nature of children - any child, not just human - to grow. It is in the nature of every living thing to grow and become better. To remain ever a child - ever ignorant - is to stagnate; in essence, it is to die. Life and growth. Death and stagnation. I cannot fathom why any God - or any other parent - would, for any reason, want the latter for his children.

When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, they grew ashamed of their nakedness. Why? Like knowledge, sex is both a part of nature and a part of our nature, as humans. To be ashamed of one's nature is utterly ridiculous. The only way I can interperet this to make any sense is that they were ashamed of their flaws. The Christian obsession with sin and repenting seems to support this. Now, ignoring for a moment that sexuality should not be considered a flaw - ignoring the sexual element entirely for a moment - I still cannot see this as correct. Perfection is a result of ignorance; either assuming that one is perfect or wanting to become perfect. Wisdom is understanding that one's flaws are not a source of shame, or something to be feared. Not to say that one should not strive to become better - I've already argued the exact opposite - but that one should do so while understanding one's limitations.

For example, take the cheetah. As a baby, it is helpless. As it grows, it learns to run, to sprint, to defend itself, and to hunt. A fully-grown cheetah is one of the fastest runners in nature. But it cannot fly. And since it is in its nature, a cheetah would never attempt to fly. Likewise, we should better our flaws where we can, and learn to accept our flaws where we cannot. This, to me, is the essence of wisdom. It is everything I stand for, and at the same time seems to me to be the antithesis of everything Christianity stands for. This is why I absolutely do not accept it, and why I feel that the world would be irrevocably better off without it.

im_in_a_tight_spot May 8th, 2008 01:52 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

You Sir, Deserve Praise for what you have just said.
*gives Xujhan a warm, fresh out of the oven Chocolate chip cookie*
I am adding you to my buddy list for such a amazing summation.

Hello_Mannequin May 8th, 2008 03:26 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Xujhan (Post 1203634)
Manarius:
God wanted them to remain that way, rather than to gain wisdom and understanding (essentialy, to attain adulthood).
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It was not the tree of "knowledge" or "wisdom" ... it was knowledge OF good and evil. In other words, if they ate from the tree, they would know both good and evil. They didn't need to eat from the tree to become wise and grow as adults. Where did you get this idea exactly? Regardless, I don't think the story of Adam and Eve is even something to be taken literally. More or less, it is a representation of the earliest days of mankind which was written for the Israelites after they came out of Egypt. Because they had spent around 300 years in Egypt, the Israelites had adapted to a lot of Egyptian culture (including the Egyptian creation myths). For this reason, Moses wrote Genesis in a way that would ultimately make sense to the Israelites in the mind-set that they were in at the time. In the end, whether we take it literally or symbolically isn't really important. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, and I respect the beliefs of anyone on here. However, I certainly cannot agree with this post.

As someone already said, the root of evil is in mankind. Even non-religious people commit crimes and evil deeds. There are many religious people who are evil, true. There are many religious people who abuse others and manipulate them USING religion. Even still, it is the people behind the evil.
It's not fair to make a generalization on religious people and say 'You are the root of ALL evil'. I won't deny that religious people have done some ridiculous things. Yet, the root of that evil was their humanity, not their religion.

I'm a Christian... and I don't think I'm an evil person.
I try really hard to understand things from different views, even though thats not always an easy task. I don't force my beliefs on others, either. After all, they're MY beliefs. I have, in the past, encouraged people to look at Christianity. But that was only to open doors for them to make a choice for themselves, I would never push them through any doors.

Also, It is unfair to say that people who grow up with religious influence are blind. We all make choices for ourself in the end.
I personally believe in God because to me, it makes sense. I think this world is far too complex to exist without God/gods. That doesn't mean I think evolution is out of the question. I think its very possible to believe in both God and evolution.

Nico, I don't know or understand the details of your beliefs. I know that they're different than mine, but that's alright with me. I think that if you're really seeking to promote peace and work against the evil that you're so frustrated with, then you should refrain from posts like this which ultimately degrade other people. Don't assume that all Christians are so against other beliefs. Two of my best friends are Buddhist, I trust them with my life.

In the video, the guy said something suggesting that religious people thought they could do something that atheists could not. Just for the record, I don't think any person is better than someone else just because they're religious/non-religious. I also look at the world and say 'Something is not right here'. Many people of many beliefs say that... *shrug* It's a mad world. I'm gonna live my life trying to promote peace and hope.

Anyways, don't misunderstand.
Even I become frustrated with Christians who mislead people or do evil things. I would never come to their defense and they would never deserve to be defended. I don't expect that God is any more pleased with them than I am. In the end, I believe that will be between them and God.

I have already acknowledged that there are instances of evil carried out by religious people. It would mean a lot to me if you would acknowledge that not all religious people are evil. Religious people HAVE contributed to positive change in the world. I really encourage you to not point the finger at any certain group within humanity, but instead at humanity itself.

I hope you can hear me out.
Take care

Vessol May 8th, 2008 03:36 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

Good and Evil are not ultimate. They are only perceptions.

Musicophiliac May 8th, 2008 03:47 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

While I can understand where the writer of this thread was coming from, I must say that I completely disagree. Religion Is typically the search to end evil, not the root of it. If there was no religion, the world would be in turmoil. no one would know what to believe, and everyone would have the constant fear of death. If religion is evil, then call me a demon.

Vessol May 8th, 2008 03:59 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Musicophiliac (Post 1203814)
While I can understand where the writer of this thread was coming from, I must say that I completely disagree. Religion Is typically the search to end evil, not the root of it. If there was no religion, the world would be in turmoil. no one would know what to believe, and everyone would have the constant fear of death. If religion is evil, then call me a demon.
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I disagree entirely. I believe that religion was founded to explain unknown phenomenon. There is no evil in this world, evil is a perspective.
Religion IS used to control people and how they act. If you don't see that then you obviously are very naive.
"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares, 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping people quiet."
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.". Both are by Napoleon Bonaparte
However we can not say what the world would be like without religion as there is no control to test the hypothesis.
Religion is not evil, I hate the word evil. I hate the idea that something is good and another thing is evil. It simplifies things down and makes people stupid and stupidity lets others control you.

R.K. May 8th, 2008 04:06 PM

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In the end, whether we take it literally or symbolically isn't really important.
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Erm... YES IT IS! If we dont take the story of adam & eve literaly then why are we not with God in heaven right now??? Why do we baptize kids to get rid of the original (or whatever its called) sin???


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and everyone would have the constant fear of death
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erm... i dont rmeember all religious people being happy about death when it comes (either for them or their loved ones). According to Kubler-Ross there is the stage of "acceptance" of death, but it doesnt even neceserily happen... Furthermore, just cause smth makes me feel good doesnt mean that i should believe it & that its the truth. It would make me feel great to be a pink elephant that could fly, doesn't mean that i should believe such nonsense.


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no one would know what to believe
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so u're suggesting, believe some nonsense just to believe in smth? I'm not religious, & i'm not in turmoil.

bathorydukeside May 8th, 2008 05:09 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1185910)


Religion has done nothing but hurt and destroy entire families and civilization.
Religion Robs people of happiness and places taboo's on things that should be commonly spoken about.
Religion has no benefit or purpose other than as an excuse to do horrible things such as kill your neighbors or anyone who has a different religion.
Religion keeps those who love each other apart, and makes people suffer horribly in ways they would otherwise not have to.



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Religion brings hope to many
Religion brings comfort and happyness to many - contraction #1
Religion provides these things at all times.
Religion brings familys together - contradiction #2
Religion brings respect - #3

My entire comment would be contradiction #4

the root of all evil, well that would be mankind would it not.
the people who TWIST religion so that it becomes taboo and diffrent
Religion itself brings people together, brings familys closer and gives everyone a speck of hope... that is EVERY religion, christianity, paganism, muslim, and many more I can either not be bothered typing or cant spell.
It is peoples views on religion that twist it....

By saying religion is the root of all evil, you are saying every religious person on earth is too... I am Pagan, Am I evil?

im_in_a_tight_spot May 8th, 2008 05:56 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Hello_Mannequin (Post 1203773)
I have already acknowledged that there are instances of evil carried out by religious people. It would mean a lot to me if you would acknowledge that not all religious people are evil. Religious people HAVE contributed to positive change in the world. I really encourage you to not point the finger at any certain group within humanity, but instead at humanity itself.

I hope you can hear me out.
Take care
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Yes, I can and do Acknowlege that not all religeous people are evil, if they were... The world we be far worse off then it is.

There are many decent Christians out in the world, most of the "Sane" ones live in city clusters. I however, am going to have to point my finger at the Bible Belt. Stark Raving Mad Lunatics everywhere.

For anyone who has not seen it... watch the movie "Frailty" it is a wonderful example of my point.


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Originally Posted by bathorydukeside (Post 1203969)
Religion brings hope to many
Religion brings comfort and happyness to many - contraction #1
Religion provides these things at all times.
Religion brings familys together - contradiction #2
Religion brings respect - #3

My entire comment would be contradiction #4
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Well, haha more contradictions, whaddaya know? What else could be expected when dealing with Christianity in any way?
Christianity IS a Contradiction.

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Originally Posted by bathorydukeside (Post 1203969)
the root of all evil, well that would be mankind would it not.
the people who TWIST religion so that it becomes taboo and diffrent
Religion itself brings people together, brings familys closer and gives everyone a speck of hope... that is EVERY religion, christianity, paganism, muslim, and many more I can either not be bothered typing or cant spell.
It is peoples views on religion that twist it....

By saying religion is the root of all evil, you are saying every religious person on earth is too... I am Pagan, Am I evil?
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Firstly, Religeon is a "Private Club." In many religeons people are not allowed to marry outside of their religeon, HOW is forcing people who love eachother to be apart, bringing people closer together?

And No, I am not saying you are "Evil" because you are Pagen.
I am saying that worship of any "God" or Diety clouds minds and causes people to do things in the name of that "God" that no one would do otherwise. STOP WORSHIPING AND START LIVING.

Manarius May 8th, 2008 07:55 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1204045)
And No, I am not saying you are "Evil" because you are Pagen.
I am saying that worship of any "God" or Diety clouds minds and causes people to do things in the name of that "God" that no one would do otherwise. STOP WORSHIPING AND START LIVING.
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You insult me to say that my religion keeps me from living. My religion holds me to a higher standard. I choose to do the universal right thing (don't even get me started about there not being universal rights and universal wrongs). That doesn't keep me from living, I'm living just fine and I'm not blinded.

You sir are blinded by your hatred of Christianity. Instead of spouting off nonsense proving that you know nothing about Christianity, you should just shut your mouth.

How often do you see taoists helping the poor and the weak? How often do you see taoists going on trips to Africa to help them construct a more advanced society so they don't have to walk 5 miles to the well every day just to get water? None. That's right.

As much as you hate Christianity, you cannot deny the amount of good that has been done on account of Christianity. If you do deny that, then you sir are a fool. Even the most hardcore atheist philosopher will not deny that fact. That philosopher will argue that God does not exist, but will NOT argue that the religion itself is a sham and that it is the root of all evil.


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Originally Posted by Xujhan (Post 1203634)
Manarius: You're earning yourself quite a reputation in my house. ^^
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Is that a good thing or a bad thing ;-)

BTW Xujhan, I disagree with your analogy, but at this point in time I would rather not hijack this thread in order to dispute that.

bathorydukeside May 8th, 2008 08:39 PM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Well, haha more contradictions, whaddaya know? What else could be expected when dealing with Christianity in any way?
Christianity IS a Contradiction.
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I mentioned Christianity only as an example, your comment was about Religion, not specifically Christianity, I was answering that!


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Firstly, Religion is a "Private Club." In many religious people are not allowed to marry outside of their religion,
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In many religions it is chosen not to marry outside, and although yes I will admit a lot of times now, many are forced into it, more because of there parents and siblings twisted views of the religion and not the religion itself...


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HOW is forcing people who love each other to be apart, bringing people closer together?
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Because ALL religion does not ask to marry within its own views... I only know of a few myself... and its more the twisted views of the person/s and not the religion



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I am saying that worship of any "God" or Diety clouds minds and causes people to do things in the name of that "God" that no one would do otherwise. STOP WORSHIPING AND START LIVING.
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I am not clouded, nore is anyone I know... What I do now, I would do with or without a god.

I am very much alive, and enjoy being so, just because I choose to worship does not mean im not living...

Kaltek May 9th, 2008 12:02 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Musicophiliac (Post 1203814)
Religion Is typically the search to end evil, not the root of it. If there was no religion, the world would be in turmoil. no one would know what to believe, and everyone would have the constant fear of death. If religion is evil, then call me a demon.
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I'm reposting part of another of my posts in an effort to provide solid proof, and not this yes-no bickering, in which to argue against:

One) There was a study done in which participants were to make a morality based decision about given situations. Atheists answered almost exactly the same way as Christians. Furthermore, Indigenous tribes in South America answered similarly the same as both previously mentioned parties.

Two) The Good Samaritan Experiment in which Seminary students were provided speeches to tell at a discussion. One group had the story of the Good Samaritan, the other had a speech on job opportunities. Both groups would pass along a designated walking route in which a person would be lying in need of help. The point was to see how often each group stopped. Both stopped as equally often. When timed both groups only helped ten percent of the time. What is important to note is that these were seminary students (religious) and one group had moral writing from the bible within their conscious (arguably preconscious).

Essentially, morality is not decided by a religion but evolution. I can find absolutely no statistical evidence that Religious people are less violent or superiorly moral.

Xujhan May 9th, 2008 01:01 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

*graciously accepts cookie*

Manarius: We're a bunch of left-wing atheists, so judge for yourself. :)

Kaltek: That's a really interesting pair of studies, I'd never heard of either before. Thanks for sharing!

Musicophiliac: On the contrary, if there were no religion in the world I think everyone would know exactly what to believe. No atheists I know suffer from a lack of belief - and I believe that can be said of almost all atheists - so it stands to reason that a world of atheists would not suffer either. The original purpose of religion in any society - every one that I know of, at least - is to explain the inexplicable. It addresses moral concerns as well, yes, but this can be accomplished without religion. Throughout history, as scientific understanding has grown, religion has shrunk. More advanced cultures are less religious; even America, although it's following that trend much more slowly than other first-world cultures. It's my personal dream that one day science and philosophy will obsolete religion entirely.

Mannequin: I didn't get that idea anywhere; it's my own. I read that section of the bible, and that's how I interpreted it. Strange as it may sound, this is how many of us "atheist" creatures deal with life. =D

Jesus's Girl May 9th, 2008 01:52 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

don't kill me...


I'm a christian :respect:
and I wasn't born a christian, and I wasn't raised a Christian. I became a christian about a year ago. and I realized that I am a sinner and make mistakes and that my life needed guidance and a clear moral direction.

I believe the bible because of the historical proof and evidence that the content in there did actually happen. not only that but once you get in to it and actually want to understand and learn it you discover so many things.

Right now I'm getting ready to leave for Africa. I'm going with a missionary group and we are working in Swaziland and Johannesburg providing AIDS/HIV relief and taking care of orphans. Is this Evil?? there are thousands of christian relief and help organizations and church projects. and while I know there are lots of people out there that slander the christian faith, and are hypocritical. but the christian faith is based on serving, helping, and other positive aspects.

not that we're perfect
human nature is naturaly flawed,
that said
our human nature being the root of all evil

ChaosShadow May 9th, 2008 03:48 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Jesus's Girl (Post 1204610)
and I wasn't born a christian, and I wasn't raised a Christian. I became a christian about a year ago. and I realized that I am a sinner and make mistakes and that my life needed guidance and a clear moral direction.
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This wouldn't be like saying you didn't have morals prior to converting right?
Because that would be weird.


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I believe the bible because of the historical proof and evidence that the content in there did actually happen. not only that but once you get in to it and actually want to understand and learn it you discover so many things.
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Whoa whoa whoa, let's not jump so far ahead of ourselves now.
I doubt even the Pope would claim that the Bible is historical "proof".
I don't think anyone would outright claim that there's historical "proof" of Jesus rising from the dead(even if they believe it).
Let's not try to exaggerate the facts here.


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Right now I'm getting ready to leave for Africa. I'm going with a missionary group and we are working in Swaziland and Johannesburg providing AIDS/HIV relief and taking care of orphans. Is this Evil?? there are thousands of christian relief and help organizations and church projects. and while I know there are lots of people out there that slander the christian faith, and are hypocritical. but the christian faith is based on serving, helping, and other positive aspects.
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Well, I certainly hope you don't abandon your reasoning ability when it comes to the topic of condom use, because I think you'll find that it goes a lot further to prevent AIDS then the superstitious crap that certain religious fanatics are spouting.


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not that we're perfect
human nature is naturaly flawed,
that said
our human nature being the root of all evil
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Agreed.
Though with regards to what you said before about how "the christian faith is based on serving, helping, and other positive aspects", that's not how it always turns out.

I see it this way:
Religion attracts the wrong kind of people more often than the average percentage of ignorant morons in society.
It's not because religion hangs out a sign next to their churches that says "The Stupid People's Club", it's mainly because religion has power in society.
That power is in the form of influence over other people in society.
Power corrupts, and "evil" or deluded people are attracted to power.
In every instance of corruption in the church, it is related to an incident in which the person in question uses their position to influence others(indoctrinating children, brainwashing followers to do your bidding, having sex with underage virgins, etc.).

ilytodeath May 9th, 2008 05:22 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by im_in_a_tight_spot (Post 1204045)
Yes, I can and do Acknowlege that not all religeous people are evil, if they were... The world we be far worse off then it is.

There are many decent Christians out in the world, most of the "Sane" ones live in city clusters. I however, am going to have to point my finger at the Bible Belt. Stark Raving Mad Lunatics everywhere.

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Well then, DITTO!!!

You just admitted that not EVERYONE who's religious is evil and that RELIGION itself is not at all the root of evil.
You just said that there ARE people who are decent believing in their beliefs. That is the whole point!!
It's not the RELIGION itself but the way people INTERPRET the religion.

If the religion was evil by nature, EVERYONE who has faith in any religion would be pure evil.
And even so, not all people who live in the Bible Belt are "bad" Christians.

im_in_a_tight_spot May 9th, 2008 10:04 AM

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Re: Religeon is the root of all evil

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Originally Posted by Jesus's Girl (Post 1204610)
don't kill me...
I'm a christian
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*Grabs a Torch* :fire:
:mace:

(lol, JK :whistling )


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Originally Posted by Jesus's Girl (Post 1204610)
and I wasn't born a christian, and I wasn't raised a Christian. I became a christian about a year ago. and I realized that I am a sinner and make mistakes and that my life needed guidance and a clear moral direction.
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:dev:
Yes, Yes... We are all "Sinners"

SIN does NOT exsist.
There is no "God" in terms of which christianity or otherwise conceives there to be.
There is no "Guy in a toga" watching you from the sky waving his finger at you.
And if there were, don't you think that it would have BETTER THINGS TO DO then float on its godly ass and watch you have pre-marital sex?
Is "god" a perve?

Honestly, the thought makes me want to (puke)

IF there were a "Supreme Being" as Christianity so puts it, DO YOU HONESTLY THINK that that "Being" would want us to live our lives :shutup2: Chained up and restricted to all that we find physically and emotionally pleasing? if we are Indeed "Children" of "His" Design would "he" really want to see us suffer so much?
NO
A Parent does not want their child to suffer.
If there were a "Supreme Being" we would be living in a utopian society and there would be no war, starvation, genocide, etc.
"He" would sit on "his" huge ass Throne in some Massive city, all happy and giggly like Santa and give everyone all they needed for a happy life.
"He" would be there to give advice to "His" Children and guide us to grow and develop as a culture, and society.

Now, maybe there WAS a "God"
Maybe "he" was here for some time and gave us the tools to make our own path. Left us a book of lessons to learn from, never intending to be worshiped. Perhaps, "he" left to create another universe of our "Brothers and sisters" and moved on.
This theory is just as easily believed as christianity or Hinduism or any organized religeon.
I can absolutely admit that there was, at one time (the beginning of the universe when there was "nothing") Some "force" or "Entity" that guided the development of the world and created the universe.
But whatever entity that WAS... has either been long since Gone, or Dead.
And if "it" were not dead, It is only Human ignorance and selfishness that allows you all to Believe that "it" would have ONLY US as its focus.
You may as well be saying that Earth is still the center of the universe.
it comes down to Humans being selfish bastards. (bastards, because their "Father" , "God" LEFT)
Hopefully scientists find a freaking star combination in the sky soon that say something like "Gone To Attend To Buisness in The Gamma Quadrent, Be Back in 50,000 Years. -"Dad")
So that all the religeous nuts can shut the **** up and quit being so up tight about things such as SEX. THAT WE WERE DESIGNED FOR.



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Originally Posted by Jesus's Girl (Post 1204610)
I believe the bible because of the historical proof and evidence that the content in there did actually happen. not only that but once you get in to it and actually want to understand and learn it you discover so many things.
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Yeah, the Bible is a great book of lessons.
Not a Book of LAW.


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Originally Posted by Jesus's Girl (Post 1204610)
Right now I'm getting ready to leave for Africa. I'm going with a missionary group and we are working in Swaziland and Johannesburg providing AIDS/HIV relief and taking care of orphans. Is this Evil?? there are thousands of christian relief and help organizations and church projects. and while I know there are lots of people out there that slander the christian faith, and are hypocritical. but the christian faith is based on serving, helping, and other positive aspects.
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Yeah, it helps.
But its "Help" is a cover up to their real mission.
Convert as many as possible around the world.
Then, when the disease is "Cured" (the disease being "godlessness") they move on to other "godless" Countries. :whistling


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Originally Posted by Jesus's Girl (Post 1204610)
not that we're perfect
human nature is naturaly flawed,
that said
our human nature being the root of all evil
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The human nature you must be referring to, is the human nature to "put things on a pedestal" and get on our knees and ignorantly worship it without asking questions or looking for answers "outside the box"




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Originally Posted by Xujhan (Post 1204574)
It's my personal dream that one day science and philosophy will obsolete religion entirely.
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Welcome to the club.
Humanity should be a Philisophical Society, Not a Religeous one.
Organized Religeon can only lead to corruption and in turn, Pain.
It is a waste of time. "God" is gone, taking a vacation, or dead. :woot:

This is a lot of stuff. Why don't we just get right down to the theorizing... what would happen if religion was removed from the face of the earth? How would that change our lives?

We need clarification for this question, Laughing Man. So, do the theocracies suddenly not have government, or would they have a different government?

i think governments would be better. if governing bodies don't have any religious aspect to them then it would be more efficient. they would concentrating what would be good for the people and not attack stuff like stem cell research. although i can see a decline in moral guidance (whatever that means). as for life in general i don't know. we already live in a desensitized world so yeah... i mean the sex trade is the greatest form of profit in the united states besides military weapons development; and politicians (or even normal people) are going around screwing each other over both figuratively and literally.

Our governments would improve, global conflict would drop dramatically, and billions of children would be spared from mind-addling religious brainwashing.